Media hit Trump's shutdown deal

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Media hit Trump's shutdown deal

No border wall funding in stopgap bill.

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," January 27, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On the Buzz Meter this Sunday, as President Trump strikes a deal with Democrats to temporarily reopen the government, the media are almost unanimous insane he caved to the pressure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC: The president backing down in total abject humiliation from a fight that he himself started, conceding to end the record setting government shutdown that he engineered.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN: Thirty-five days of federal workers rationing asthma medicine for their kids, sleeping in cars. This man single-handedly shut down the government. It is shameful.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, look, we should admit, Trump did lose the shutdown fight over the wall, but at least he made an effort to find the middle ground and also stand up for American security first.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS: I think Trump lost the battle, so he has got to win the war. He has got to get something out of an emergency declaration.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: Are the pundits right that this is a big win for Nancy Pelosi or does it just postpone the battle over a border wall? Roger Stone proclaims his innocence after being indicted for his role in dealing with WikiLeaks and his hacked e-mail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STONE, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: There is no circumstance whatsoever under which I will bear false witness against the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Stone launches a media blitz as journalists question whether he was taking orders from the Trump campaign or the president himself, but is that sheer speculation?

A major media failure. An online mob vilifies those Covington Catholic students wearing MAGA hats based on a misleading video. Many journalists forced to apologize amid the growing debate over the confrontation with native Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: With little evidence, no contacts, yes, the hate Trump media vilifying a group of teenagers over what is a 30-second clip.

EDDIE GLAUDE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Underneath this is a sense of double standard. Underneath this is that we give privilege to these white kids.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: You would think somebody at some point in media land would wonder how all of this misreporting is affecting the kids who were falsely accused. But no, there is sympathy for Covington Catholic in America's newsrooms.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, 'THE VIEW' CO-HOST: We just instantly say that's what it is based on what we see in that moment, and then have to walk stuff back when it turns out we're wrong. Why is that -- why do we keep making the same mistake?

JOY BEHAR, 'THE VIEW' CO-HOST: Because we're desperate to get Trump out of office.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: That's why.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: Desperate. How did so many news outlets get the story wrong? Can anything be done about the hatred and the threats being spewed on Twitter?

Plus, the president reveals he pulled the plug on most White House press briefings because he says Sarah Sanders is being treated unfairly, but is that reason enough to give (INAUDIBLE)? Dana Perino will be here. I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."

It's fair to say that everyone is relieved especially here in Washington that after a painful shutdown that dragged down for 35 days, President Trump announced a three-week spending bill with Democrats to reopen the government. No funding for the wall, but Trump said it could close again in mid-February or he might use his emergency power to start funding for the border wall.

Joining us now to analyze the coverage: Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist and a Fox News contributor; Beverly Hallberg, president of District Media Group and a former television producer; and Jessica Tarlov, a Fox News contributor.

Mollie, New York Times, a stinging defeat for Trump. Washington Post, a humiliating low point. Daily Caller, Trump caves. Are the press and all the media organizations basically writing, calling this attack a defeat for the president?

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, THE FEDERALIST: Well, it just objectively was a defeat. The president tried to get a broad border security bill, not just a barrier, beds for people who are coming across the border, more personnel, technology interdict drugs, $800 million in (INAUDIBLE). He didn't get that. So, it is OK to say that he didn't do that.

Of course, there is a longer story here which is the government has been reopened. You have dozens of Democrats saying they do want to vote on this now that the government is open. So I think it is worthwhile to wait and see how serious people were about wanting border security, how willing they are to negotiate.

There was a failure at this point, but the larger issues which the vast majority of Americans seem to care about are ongoing. At some point, the responsibility can't just lie on the president. Other people have to get involved, too.

KURTZ: I'll come back to that in one second. Beverly, there was an increasingly sharp and intense media focus on the hardships being suffered by federal workers and their families and the impact on the economy and the air traffic system. Did that boost the pressure on President Trump to make a deal?

BEVERLY HALLBERG, DISTRICT MEDIA GROUP: I think so, and you saw what President Trump did. He tried to show his own people that he was supporting that border security, that angel families. So it is really a battle of these two narratives and the people that are being hurt.

But I do think that long term going back to what Mollie was saying is, that most Americans do want some type of border security. So while I do think that this definite and looks like a defeat for the president in the short term, I think long term, there is a lot more to come.

So even though many in the media were talking about this being a major victory, I don't think that they were focusing on the fact that in three weeks, the president may get a little bit more of what he wants.

KURTZ: And so is the press celebration of Nancy Pelosi taking at to president, could it be premature? Could this look very different in just a few weeks?

JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It depends on what happens. I think that people like Steny Hoyer and Jim Clyburn had been right on message. You know, Steny Hoyer saying a border wall is not immoral, that's a wrong word to be using here. Jim Clyburn saying we're going to put together or compromise bill that does something, called a smart wall, right, that has technology and extension of physical barriers in certain places.

I don't think that the media calling it a win and saying that he caved is wrong because that narrative will hold again if he does shut down the government unilaterally, calling a national emergency in three weeks. That will not make Republicans happy or Democrats happy. I think that using the stories about hardships and specifically what happened when FAA called out sick, taken an hour, hour and a half at LaGuardia --

KURTZ: At LaGuardia, yeah.

TARLOV: -- that the president suddenly was willing to come to the table there.

KURTZ: But Mollie, the president is also taking some flak from the right. Ann Coulter famously said, called him like the biggest wimp ever to serve as president. She is an immigration hardliner.

TARLOV: (INAUDIBLE) worse.

KURTZ: Anyway, (INAUDIBLE) opinion.

TARLOV: (INAUDIBLE) Ann Coulter.

KURTZ: She said -- all right. Does this feel like a double-edged loss because the president didn't make either side happy?

HEMINGWAY: This is a great example, I think, of how the media do a good job at covering surface level issue but rarely digging deeper. This is a problem going back decades. Trump and Pelosi are not the only figures on the scene. You have other people who are responsible for the failure to do what American voters have asked for, pleaded for, demanded for decades.

When you cover it just as a win or a loss for trump versus Pelosi or just as a horse race type thing, you see how people get away without handling this. I think that these are really large structural issues that require nuance and deep understanding that frankly our media just don't have.

And even when it comes to the players involved in this failure to secure the border, it's not just trump and Pelosi, it's also Senate Republicans who played the key role, who clearly didn't want to do this fight, and whether they will want to in the next several weeks will be interesting to see as well.

KURTZ: You know, just days before the stopgap deal, Beverly, the president backed off on giving the State of the Union after Nancy Pelosi said, no, you are not welcome to come to the House. He said it was her prerogative. All of this headlines -- just taking The Washington Post. "A Rival Who Can Flummox Trump: A Powerful Woman Named Nancy Pelosi."

Today, the Post is back again. Pelosi doesn't mess around. Speaker emerges triumphant. But there was far less attention to conservative commentators who said it was kind of petty to try to exclude the State of the Union.

HALLBERG: I would agree to that. I think Nancy Pelosi has every right to do so. There are a lot of people talking about whether or not he should do this of course from the Senate floor or even when I think optically would be good which is maybe on the border and talking to border agents and angel families.

So I do think that what the media has turned this into is more of we don't like Trump, we don't want to put him in a favorable light. And as Mollie was saying, we are not getting to the nuance because when you talk about immigration, this is a battle that Republicans have fought over for a very long time, and I do think it is valid to ask why is this fight now and not in the past two years when Republicans did have the House.

KURTZ: Right, and what gets obscured by all the media score keeping is of course that this was just not a good outcome for the country to go 35 days --

TARLOV: Of course not.

KURTZ: -- and get the same deal that basically both sides could have gotten on day one.

TARLOV: Yeah, and I think it is important to be pointing that out as journalists, to talk about it in those kinds of terms instead of saying, you know, move the State of the Union to the border which turns into a campaign rally. The State of the Union is one thing that happens every year that is actually supposed to be for both sides. It should have that level of majesty and it should be in the House.

I do think it was inappropriate for the president to want to do that while the government is shut down. There was pettiness on both sides from you can't come to I'm take away your military plane.

KURTZ: Yeah.

TARLOV: But --

KURTZ: OK, that's the point. There was pettiness on both sides but it was Nancy Pelosi, I think, who got all the growing headlines.

Let me move on to Roger Stone. As you all know, he was indicted in the Mueller investigation. Obstruction, lying to Congress, and other charges having to do with his dealings, his communications with WikiLeaks during the campaign and trying to find out whether the hacked Democratic e-mail is coming.

So there was an incredible mob scene at the courthouse in Florida. And then after Stone proclaimed his innocence, he did this media blitz. He was on Stephanopoulos this morning. On Friday, he was on Tucker Carlson and also CNN's Chris Cuomo. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STONE: I never discussed this with Donald Trump. So speculation tonight by Wolf Blitzer, by Preet Bharara, by others that Trump directed me to do this or directed someone to direct me to do this --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: He is saying all that speculation is wrong. He has been saying that for a long time. But there is this indictment sort of Person 1 and Person 2 in Trump campaign, so the media are like, well, this must be really senior people, maybe even the president, but we don't know that.

HEMINGWAY: Well, and also it actually doesn't even matter who the person is because the indictment doesn't suggests anything to support the underlying narrative that has been pushed for several years now which is treasonous collusion with Russia to steal the election.

Talking to people about information that they have already put out and when the next batch is going to come out of negative information is not a crime. If it were, the special counsel would have indicated that it was a crime.

Roger Stone, a guy who has bragged about being a dirty trickster going back to the Nixon area, was unable to be gotten on anything other than processed crimes does tell us something interesting. Yes, he is fun character to cover. Yes, it is fun to see him coming out of the courthouse that way. But we are -- as journalists, we are required to check that underlying issue.

Was there treasonous collusion with Russia that justifies unsettling the campaign, unsettling the administration? I'm sorry but our media are completely incapable of asking tough questions of the special counsel, of the FBI, of the Department of Justice and this just shows that.

KURTZ: Well, these are processed crimes but obstruction of justice and lying to Congress are also very serious crimes, Jessica. The media right in that whatever is the mysterious dialing between Roger Stone and Julian Assange's people, even if he was just trying to get a head's up at what was coming out next, he was an informal Trump advisor. He was, according to the indictment, in regular contact with the Trump campaign, and now he is charged with not telling the truth about this.

TARLOV: I do think it is serious. It is not as serious as some people who want the Mueller report to come out within the next 20 minutes because they can't just wait anymore are making an out to be.

But as more and more Trump associates who had a role in the campaign and frankly had been around him for decades go down for this and potentially turn to cooperating witnesses, people who want to turn a blind eye to it and continue to scream witch hunt are looking more and more absurd. I think that is what is going on here.

Donald Trump surrounded himself with liars, almost exclusively it seems. Roger Stone is accused of that. You have Rick Gates, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen. Long list of them. We will see what happens when they get --

(CROSSTALK)

HALLBERG: -- turn into then -- I think what the media is setting up is guilt by association if the collusion claims don't hold true. So I think that's what's happening as a whole. You see that on CNN or MSNBC, you almost have mugshot-tile of people who have been indicted or convicted of crimes. I think they are laying out the case already that if collusion doesn't happen, we are going to do guilt by association.

KURTZ: The media are loving covering Stone. I mean, he is a self-described dirty trickster. He has been around forever. He goes in to all these T.V. interviews. Just on the entertainment value. That is why they love the story.

HEMINGWAY: It is fine to cover it. It is good to cover it. But it is also true that this week, we learned that there was major obstruction going on at the Department of Justice, and nobody covered it. We learned that they had claimed, they led Congress to believe that they didn't have access to the dossier until just before the election.

Sworn testimony before Congress tells us they knew about the meetings with Steel going back to July of the campaign. Nobody in the media cares about that. Nobody cares that John Podesta sat next to the guy who commissioned the dossier and claimed he didn't have any idea where it came from.

I agree that lying to Congress is a problem, but you have people lying to Congress all the time including James Clapper and John Brennan. They don't get charged. And so it is important that the media don't just in their hatred for Trump take glee in this without thinking about these institutions of our law enforcement as well.

KURTZ: That has been overshadowed. Let me ask you before we go. There have been significant layoffs at BuzzFeed and Huff Post to places not friendly to Trump. President tweets, "Ax falls and fake news and bad journalism have caused a big downturn." Ben Smith, editor of BuzzFeed, said it was a disgusting thing to say because all these people are losing their job. Your thoughts?

HALLBERG: I think Trump is often a sore winner, and I think this is case of it. I don't think that the president is ever going to stop tweeting. It is something that he is going to continue to do. I wish he wouldn't tweet this out.

But at the same time, he has a very good point. Let's not forget what BuzzFeed did last week. Make a massive claim and then were discredit. So for them to lose staff based on the fact that I don't think many people think that they are as strong and investigative journalists meant as they think, I actually think accurate.

KURTZ: Well, there is a lot of downturns in digital media generally, but I take your point. Let me get a break here. Ahead, Dana Perino weighs in on the president, all but eliminating the White House press briefings.

When we come back, why so many journalists are now apologizing for their coverage of the confrontation involving the Covington Catholic High School kids.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: The first Washington Post story reflected the initial coverage of what happened between the Covington Catholic High School students and native Americans on the mall. The headline, "Marcher's accost by boys in MAGA hats draws ire." Native American activist Nathan Phillips was quoted as saying he felt threatened by the Kentucky students.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S.E. CUPP, CNN: Clearly, these boys are not getting a good education because it makes little sense to angrily chant build the wall to a population with literally zero illegal immigrants who were here long before we were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: It turns out they chant build the wall, but once other videos and interviews make clear that Nick Sandmann and the other students were not the aggressors, CNN host S.E. Cupp who you just saw tweeted, "seeing all the additional videos now, and I 100 percent regret reacting too quickly to the Covington story. I wish I'd had the fuller picture before weighing in, and I'm truly sorry."

National Review apologized to the students and to readers. New York Times contributor Kara Swisher apologized as well. "I was a complete dolt to put this up and several other obnoxious tweets yesterday without waiting to see the whole video."

Some of the initial blasts were really pretty ugly. CNN contributor Bakari Sellers had tweeted about Covington's Nick Sandmann. "He is a deplorable. Some people can also be punched in the face."

Mollie Hemingway, what explains the media's complete botching of this story, portraying these high school kids as aggressive, Trump loving racists, on a single misleading video and interpretation of small (INAUDIBLE).

HEMINGWAY: OK, well, I suppose it starts with their bigotry. A lot of people in our media are bigoted against conservatives, Christians, pro- lifers. This is the only coverage a lot of people got of the March of Life. It might be a lesson for pro-lifers that that it's not even good to get coverage if this is the kind of fallacious coverage that you get.

But it is more than that, too. We learned that our media are willing to accept stories that have no verification, that they don't do due diligence even when there is video evidence.

And the fact that they were willing to be so wrong and continue to be so wrong, not very many people apologized, not many people retracted, but they are doing that in the face of hours of exonerating video evidence.

I think what gives viewers and readers a lot of concern about how they are handling truly anonymous sources, many problems here.

KURTZ: Beverly, there was an unbelievable rush to judgment as some of the journalists and there are many more could have read now acknowledged.

HALLBERG: Just think what would have happened to this young man if there had been not the two hours of footage and somebody actually went through and looked at it all. When you talk about reporters and journalists, they do have a responsibility.

I think one of the things that you are even seeing, even though a few are apologizing, you are actually seeing reporters double down and say, but he smirked. It was his facial expression. I think journalists are now moving instead of saying that your actions matter, your speech matter.

KURTZ: Yeah.

HALLBERG: Now, your facial expression matter.

KURTZ: Right.

HALLBERG: So I think we have a lot of responsibility as journalists and we didn't see enough of that in retracting.

KURTZ: Jessica, many people say the Covington students got a raw deal from the media, but you are not so sure about that.

TARLOV: I think actually what would have been preferable in this is if people had waited in the first place because I know that there are a number of people who jumped on it, said some things that they shouldn't have, then took it back, and then actually saw more footage and wish that they could have taken back the apology that they made because they feel like there is more to the story, and it is more nuance.

KURTZ: They didn't behave as (INAUDIBLE). They were absolutely vilified. These are bunch of high school kids.

TARLOV: I understand that and they are kids but the most -- the pieces that I have been most interested in reading about, I do say they shouldn't be vilified, certainly shouldn't have their schools closed down and all of that, are ones that bring up the issue of how Nick Sandmann gets treated in comparison to how a young African-American kid gets treated, or what if the Covington Catholic kids were (INAUDIBLE) with African-American kids, they were surrounding one person, what would be implications of that?

We have a media that when they get yelled at and told no, no, this was wrong or shown something, they all scramble to the other side of this. I believe there are people who should continue to stand up for Nathan Phillips, to stand up and talk about what it is that the MAGA hat means to a lot of people in this country.

HEMINGWAY: This is exactly what I am talking about. This is actually the view of a lot of people in the media. That wearing the hat of the guy who won the presidency which says "make America great again" is a hate crime. That Nathan Phillips needs to be defended even though we have broad evidence that nothing he said about the incident was true.

KURTZ: Let me jump in on this very point about wearing the hats and your earlier point about bigotry. Here is CNN contributor Angela Rye on what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA RYE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: But this "make America great again" hat is just as maddening and frustrating and triggering for me to look at as a KKK hood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Actress Alyssa Milano also said the MAGA hats are the new white hood. And (INAUDIBLE) attacking the president or attacking people who support President Trump.

HEMINGWAY: And that is why this is such a -- the story resonates with so many people. They understand that people are being attacked for being conservative or for being pro-life. The idea that wearing a hat or wearing a short skirt justifies some kind of behavior on other people is something the media should not engage in.

Nobody in the media would say that people don't have the free expression to wear a pussy hat on television or that if you wear a pussy -- wear a pussy hat at the march. And if you did, people can come up and threaten you as adults (ph) if you're -- you know, nobody would say these things.

But they say these things that are completely outlandish, very threatening. And you bet people feel that. They feel that the media are opposed to them, to their core, to their political core.

KURTZ: Beverly, Angela Rye's comments, she is a CNN contributor, didn't cause a stir at all. Nobody said, oh, did she go too far or anything like that.

HALLBERG: That is because anybody who is aligned with President Trump, if you are mainstream media, you think that you must be racist, you must be bigoted, and you even had a congressman of Kentucky come out and say, we should ban any young people from wearing the MAGA hat altogether. I mean, you're going to make something illegal --

KURTZ: Right.

HALLBERG: -- so it is really dangerous.

TARLOV: But if you don't deal with what Angele Rye is talking about and Hakeem Jeffries' comments which I certainly do not believe the president is the grand wizard of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, you were ignoring a large swath of Americans who do associate this president and his policies with racism.

They see Donald Trump and they think about the Central Park Five. They think about very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville. They wonder --

KURTZ: OK.

TARLOV: -- why he can only get one or two black people to work in his White House --

KURTZ: We're out of time, but I got say, attack President Trump all you want. He is fair game. He is the president. When you start attacking his supporters or kids in hats, you crossed the line. It is not a good look. I'm sure we have a lot more to say about this. Jessica Tarlov, Beverly Hallberg, and Mollie Hemingway, thanks for a great discussion today.

Ahead, how come everyone in America got to watch the endless replay of the botched call in the NFC Championship game except the ref.

But up next, the press pounces on Rudy Giuliani for his stumble using unnamed sources that questions not only his confidence but his personal conduct.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Rudy Giuliani has had a lot of cleanup work, plenty of here is what I really meant to say, and that's obviously fair game for criticism, but there has also been a press pile on using unnamed sources to thrash his reputation.

The former New York mayor stumbled on "Meet the Press" when Chuck Todd asked whether the president had indeed discussed the Russian Trump Tower project with Michael Cohen throughout the campaign or longer than had been acknowledged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The president can remember having conversations with him about it.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC: Throughout 2016.

GIULIANI: Yeah, probably up to -- could be up to as far as October, November. Our answers cover until the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And Giuliani told The New York Times that Trump had told him the conversations lasted until the day he won the election. But Rudy later said he had been misinterpreted, that he was only discussing this hypothetically.

Another missed step came when Giuliani told The New Yorker he knew he was right because he reviewed all the tapes. What tapes? Well, said Rudy, I shouldn't have said tapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: Rudy Giuliani seems out of his mind. He is making references to tapes. He is making reference at the (INAUDIBLE) even talking about tapes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you listen to Rudy for long enough, your brain is reduced to mash.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And then came all the unnamed sources. Politico, Rudy Giuliani has a growing list of enemies in the White House which now includes his boss, President Donald Trump.

Now they are enemies? Politico also said the president is enraged and apoplectic at his lawyer. But to his credit, let Giuliani respond to the anonymous sniping. The AP, also according to sources, says Trump is agitated and frustrated with Giuliani.

Not, according to New York Times' Maggie Haberman, who says Trump is still pretty happy with Rudy. But the AP also made this charge. "Some of Trump' allies have suggested that Giuliani be barred from evening interviews because of concerns that he was going on TV after drinking, according to three Republicans close to the White House."

Really? Based on nothing more than that, not even in high wood, boozy dinner (ph), the wire service suggests that Giuliani is sloshed on the air. That passage should never have been published.

Ahead on "Media Buzz," President Trump says he abolished almost all the White House briefings because the press is mistreating Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Is that so? But first, after so many pundits embarrassed themselves in the Covington Catholic High School controversy, a top columnist says Twitter is ruining journalism. Is that true?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST: It was inevitable given the white, hot media attention with the kids from the confrontation between Catholic high school kids from Kentucky and a group of Native Americans that those are the center that would take to the airwaves.

NCB's Savannah Guthrie sat down with the Today show with Nick Sandmann, the 11th grader who became the face of the Covington students and Native American activist Nathan Phillips.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS: Do you feel from this experience that you owe anybody an apology? Do you see your own faults in any way?

NICK SANDMANN, COVINGTON CATHOLIC HICH SCHOOL STUDENT: I mean, in hindsight I wish we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing. But I can't say that I'm sorry for listening to him and standing there.

NATHAN PHILLIPS, NATIVE AMERICAN ACTIVIST: Coached and written up for him insincerity, lack of responsibility. You know, those are words I came up with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now, Buck Sexton, a radio host and a co-host at Hill TV, and Mara Liasson, national political reporter for NPR and a Fox News contributor.

Buck, Nick Sandmann we just saw, having to defend himself in the harsh glare of the media spotlight. And Nathan Phillips despite changing his story repeatedly and old the evidence that submerged still acting like the aggrieved party.

BUCK SEXTON, HILL.TV: This is why the media has a credibility crisis that just keeps getting worse. We know there's a rush to judgment and you talked about it earlier on the show, a lot of people had walked out that one back. But then, even when the video was much more one on the full video --

KURTZ: Yes.

SEXTON: -- the context around are the horrible racial slur, anti-gay slurs, things that were said by adults in the presence and directed at 15- year-old kids you see the way these two sides are the issue, Phillips and Sandmann are treated in this interview. I mean, Savannah Guthrie is asking a 15-year-old kid do you think you owe them an apology? An apology for what, Savannah, we've all seen the video.

He had somebody come up to him in, I would say in aggressive fashion and bang a drum in his face.

KURTZ: All right. But I think that she had to do about to the people who are still critical of him and she did it gently, he's a kid, but Savannah Guthrie got pummeled from the left and right of these interviews. Commentator Dan Bongino says she has to resign in disgrace. She asks some skeptical e essence questions but she tread lightly.

MARA LIASSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: That's because everything is fodder for the culture wars. I mean, people can leave well enough alone. The smartest thing that kid said I wish I could have walked away.

KURTZ: Yes.

LIASSON: In hindsight, I wish I would have walked away. In hindsight, I wish a lot of journalists, not all, should've gotten their facts first and then express their opinions instead of expressing their opinions first and backfilling the facts to their design.

SEXTON: But, Howie --

LIASSON: You know, if it's like we don't -- you know, there -- this was a Rashomon situation. We saw one clip of tape originally. Apparently, there was other footage of this black Israelites would start very low --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Yes, but everybody has to have every second.

LIASSON: Yes, everybody has to have take.

KURTZ: And Buck --

LIASSON: Just stop tweeting.

KURTZ: And you write, it's just a matter of time before the social media mob comes for you,

SEXTON: Well, that's I think this hits home for so many people. There's a concept out here I think a lot of folks have that if they just don't engage in the culture wars, Mara rightly points out back and forth all the time, that they won't necessarily get dragged on Twitter. They won't be somebody who's made a national mystery --

KURTZ: Yes.

SEXTON: -- a mockery in front of the whole country. These kids didn't do anything. Nothing actually happened in this incident. They were on a school trip. What they did, as we see from the initial reactions from the media is, wear MAGA hats, march for life and happened to be white kids who go to a Catholic school.

And this just means that anybody who's anywhere could be videoed, could be and even a non-confrontation confrontation like this was but because of the irresponsible way that the media will latch on things because they see a narrative you could be going to buy groceries, drop in your kid off at school, open the door at your apartment building and all of a sudden CNN is saying, look at this racist.

KURTZ: Wow. So, it --

(CROSSTALK)

LIASSON: You know what, there is another feature of this that we've got to mention because this is a feature of journalism today. That video was viralized by bots and people who do that for a living.

KURTZ: With a generous amount of help from some named journalist --

(CROSSTALK)

LIASSON: Yes, I'm not denying that. But the fact is that it played right into that.

KURTZ: All right. Meanwhile, the Bishop at the diocese in Kentucky apologize for being bullied because they initially came out with the statement very critical of the students.

Look, New York Times tech columnist Farhad Manjoo wrote and use this as an example of how Twitter is ruining journalism. He says, "it tugs journalists deeper into the rip currents of tribal melodrama," your culture wars, Mara, "shortcircling our better instincts in favor of mob-driven and bot-driven group thing helps bolster the most damaging stereotypes of our profession."

His solution is to tweet a whole lot less or could it also just be to weigh and to think before you tweet.

SEXTON: I think that Twitter is accidental transparency for journalism. I think that this is fantastic because --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Like truth serum?

SEXTON: Yes. Because what you see are people who work at the New York Times, work at CNN, work on the Washington Post on many other outlets who all day along are retweeting and replying to and giving high-fives to left- wing activism. They'll give high-fives to people whose jobs in the media are to tear down the opposition in the media, and then they say, but I'm just an objective neutral party here. I just want to bring you the facts.

KURTZ: OK. But Buck --

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: This is laughable.

KURTZ: But Buck, aren't there conservatives who also use Twitter who also a part of these cultures war --

LIASSON: Of course.

SEXTON: Conservatives say they are conservative. You walk down the street of CNN --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: I see.

SEXTON: -- they're living in a fantasy land where they're just presenting you with the facts and objective neutral reporting and No American should buy that anymore. I think they are starting to realize that.

LIASSON: There are some news organizations including NPR that have guidelines about what you can do and say on Twitter, it's fine to retweet your colleagues' work, which is a really good use of Twitter because Twitter has vast audience, but it's not an opinion platform if you are not a columnist or an opinion journalist.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Mara, David Brooks in the New York Times, that both left and right at different times have joined this online mobs.

LIASSON: Yes.

KURTZ: And in this Covington case when it looked initially like the kids did something wrong or bad the liberals went haywire because they thought the narrative was Trump supporting Catholic kids behaving badly.

LIASSON: Smirking. That's what they were looking at that way.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Yes, you're right. But then when it turns, and now I think it's pretty apparent that they were not the aggressors conservatives piled on. So, I think both sides --

LIASSON: Yes, yes.

KURTZ: -- you know, have (Inaudible) quick to refigure.

(CROSSTALK)

LIASSON: Everybody needs to deescalate, which isn't going to happen.

KURTZ: Right.

LIASSON: So, yes, it's not going to happen.

SEXTON: It's not going to happen. You're thinking from doubling down.

LIASSON: Yes.

SEXTON: Now there's a sense that's no apologies, no changes, and I also think that just in terms of media practice going forward. There's been a rejection of holding back and waiting till you have the facts.

LIASSON: Yes.

SEXTON: I mean, she's right. People should wait until they know especially if there are objective reporters --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: It is not hard to do in the culture of --

LIASSON: In this case, it was really hard. Yes.

KURTZ: -- in the culture in which many journalist and commentators and (Inaudible) feel that if I don't offer an opinion in 10 seconds, they'll miss the story.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: But it's more than just what the journalists think. They're trying to feed the beast. They're trying to give their audience what they want as quickly as they possibly can to beat out the competition. And for a lot of these outlets is a narrative. In this case, these bigoted anti-Catholic kids being racist.

KURTZ: Yes.

SEXTON: They want to feed that to them and they'd rather take the hit on, OK, maybe we got this little wrong and say --

KURTZ: Yes. SEXTON: -- maybe we're lighting our credibility on fire day after day.

KURTZ: And just briefly. I mean, we've all probably rush to judgment I'm sure I have. But Twitter has turned into thing and has a lot of good aspect where we're all on deadline all the time.

LIASSON: Yes.

KURTZ: Every second.

LIASSON: Yes.

KURTZ: And that's the top temptation to resist.

LIASSON: It's really bad and it's really hard to see how you put that genie back in the bottle.

KURTZ: Right. It's like saying if it was no television like we'd all be having Lyndon Douglas (Ph) debate.

LIASSON: Yes.

KURTZ: All right. Buck Sexton and Mara Liasson, great to see you both this Sunday.

Coming up, Dana Perino is filled with plenty of tough questions at the White House podium on the virtual elimination of the press briefings.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: There hasn't been a White House press briefing in more than a month. And now we know why these sessions have become so infrequent, thanks to a presidential tweet. "The reason why Sarah Sanders does not go to the podium much anymore is that the press covers her so rudely and inaccurately, in particular, certain members of the press. I told her not to bother. The word gets out anyway."

And Sarah Huckabee-Sanders not surprisingly is defending the move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HUCKABEE-SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is the president who said he doesn't like the decorum in the White House. Look, we're in the business of getting the information to the American people not making stars out of people that want to become contributors on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: I spoke earlier with Dana Perino, host of the Daily Briefing, co- host of The Five, and of course, White House Press Secretary for George W. Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KURTZ: Dana Perino, welcome.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Thanks for having me.

KURTZ: What do you think of the president cancelling most press briefings because he says he doesn't like the way his press secretary is treated, and we know Donald Trump doesn't like the press but does the White House giving up something here as well.

PERINO: Certainly. You know, look. It was 10 years ago this month, Howie, that I gave my last press briefing there and when I look back on January 20th, 29 -- 2009, I didn't even have a Twitter account. OK? So, things have changed quite dramatically, right? KURTZ: Exactly.

PERINO: So, the president, he can always talk directly to people. He does so several times a day if he wants to know what's on his mind, he will tell you. And so, I can understand that in some ways this technologically things have changed.

That said, I do think that the White House is giving up an opportunity for a couple of reasons. One is that, when you are there at the podium taking questions and that sealed behind your head, says the White House, it signals everybody in the world this is somebody worth listening to, I better pay attention.

That doesn't mean they have to listen to Jim Acosta or anybody else like that in the briefing room, but it's a symbol that you should pay attention to what this person is going to say.

The other thing is I do think that when you're in doing a briefing it gives you a sense for what the press is asking about, what are they thinking. It can give you a clue for when the next time the president takes questions what they might want to ask him. So, there's that.

KURTZ: You know, I've accepted Sarah Sanders' explanation that the president, this president talks to reporters almost every day and wouldn't you rather hear from him than from her, sure, who wouldn't.

PERINO: Sure.

KURTZ: But at the same time doesn't this also hurt the part of the press corps, people with smaller outfits or original papers that don't have that kind of access to be in the pool and talk to the president of the United States.

PERINO: Yes. So, the press corps is made up of more than just people that wanted, you know, and write books about their time in the White House. I mean, it's made up of a lot of different people cross the board, including some trade organizations, international organizations. So, yes, I think that you miss out on talking to them.

You know, the White House early on in when they first came to power had this idea of expanding the press briefing. If you remember they were going to leave the briefing room and take it over the old Executive Office Building --

KURTZ: Right.

PERINO: -- and have 150 reporters there. And I remember saying to Sean Spicer, do you think that's a good idea because you won't have time to do anything else, you'll be in there for three hours.

KURTZ: Right.

PERINO: But they had this idea of inviting reporters from across the country to Skype in and ask questions.

KURTZ: Yes.

PERINO: And I've really liked that idea and they did it for like the first week and they never did it again. So, I think that they're throwing away some opportunities but it's not like you don't know what they're thinking.

KURTZ: Yes, but --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I would Howie.

KURTZ: Yes.

PERINO: I think the reporters spent too much time looking at the White House and being worried about the White House. There is a big federal government out there to cover and so much is happening across the federal government that isn't happening at the White House.

KURTZ: Well, that part of the issue. But when Sarah Huckabee says look, there are CNN reporters like someone whose initials are Jim Acosta who are just -- who are just trying to get on TV and grandstand. When you're at the podium then you have grandstanding reporters who want to get a hostile change that they can play on the evening news, rather than say eliciting information.

PERINO: Yes, but I just always try to, you know, I try to get out of the situation as quickly as possible, give them what they need, or not what they need, understand that they had a job to do.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: But what I'm saying is that -- is that a sufficient reason to shut down most of the briefings. It hasn't been one in more than a month and all the other reporters who actually are trying to listen to information and get punished in the process and maybe the country losses out.

PERINO: Well, OK, let's talk about this. For this last month, 35 days, the president has been in part of a shutdown and his numbers have not improved at all. They are -- his approval numbers have gone down a little bit of marginal support, a little bit more for the wall, but generally, all the blame is going to him.

And the fact that he cannot move the needle when he is the president of the United States and all the trappings of the office in a primetime address and everything that he has, to me, says that maybe you need to hear it from somebody else. And that having a regular White House briefing to hammer out what the president is thinking, why he's thinking it and how he came to that decision can make the difference between success and failure in some of these policy fights.

KURTZ: All right. It's very much two-way street.

PERINO: Yes.

KURTZ: Dana Perino, somebody who's been there. Thanks very much for joining us.

PERINO: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KURTZ: In other news, London's Telegraph has apologized to Melania Trump and agreed to pay her substantial damages over a piece that was just riddle with false statements, admitting for instance, she was a successful model before meeting Donald Trumpet didn't need his help for his career. A financial settlement with the first lady is so rare that it highlights the shoddiness of the story.

And Washington's museum has sold its grand headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue for $372 million, leaving it potentially homeless as it struggles to survive. Now I happen to love the museum but especially with the media's unpopularity it never generate enough revenue to support such a glittering palace.

After the break, there were 50 TV cameras at the showdown between the New Orleans Saints and the L.A. Rams, so how come the red couldn't look at a single replay. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: We've all it again and again and again video replays of the botched non-call as an L.A. Rams player slammed into Tommylee Lewis of the Saints that may well have caused New Orleans subvert in this week's Super Bowl. But the ref, the ref was barred from even looking at the replays.

Joining us now, Britt McHenry, co-host of UN-PC, on Fox Nation and a former ESPN reporter. So, how is it that you and I and everybody sitting on their couches and everybody in every bar in America can watch these replays and see the horrible call (Ph) that it was, and the one guy whose opinion matter is the ref is barred from watching it.

BRITT MCHENRY, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Well, the beauty of having the television and instant replays, you can see every angle.

KURTZ: Right. But I have been on the sidelines. Even if you're not working the broadcast as we were discussing, the last two minutes of the game the media is allowed to get onto the field. So, I have been there from that vantage point sitting there watching. There is absolutely no way the ref should have miss this. It's the most egregious non-call in NFL history in recent NFL history.

KURTZ: Maybe in the history of western civilization.

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: But there is a reason according to the archaic rules of the NFL which is that the refs can review footage of his, so the physical question, did the ball cross the goal. And so, when judgment call like passing deference or not, are not allowed to do it --

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: -- in the NFL rules and so you have this ludicrous situation. Even the Rams player who committed the interference, Robey Coleman, who said, yes, I did it I watch the replay. I got away with it.

MCHENRY: Yes. That was the sad part, to me, because if you're a Saints fan and there are so many good Saints fans out there who watch the show watch Fox, I mean, this one stings like no other. And then to see Todd Gurley they're running back posting a picture with the ref after the game. Usually players exchanged jerseys together.

KURTZ: Yes.

MCHENRY: You know, taunting the fan base. Nickell Robey-Coleman saying yes, absolutely, I did what I had to. He was four -- the wall was four yards away when he just mogged them. I mean, that's was happened.

KURTZ: Right.

MCHENRY: And to not have that call it would have been a penalty place there, it would have been first down. They would've round up the clock the Saints would have won the game.

KURTZ: Well, most likely.

MCHENRY: Most likely.

KURTZ: You never know what's going to happen. All right.

MCHENRY: You'll never know.

KURTZ: So, we agreed, and I think America has agreed it's a really dumb call.

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: But you may argue that it's a really damn rule and I bet it's going to be changed so that the NFL refs would be able to. But let's take the -- let me take the other side of it.

If every disputed call is something to a challenge and they have to go to the new type (Ph) of machines --

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: -- wouldn't games take forever. And going back to before, there was videotape aren't bad calls, just sort of part of sports.

MCHENRY: They are and you've heard that argument.

KURTZ: Yes.

MCHENRY: You know, they're at home, how could they make it even that close given how good the Saints were this year. But when you're an athlete you're playing that sport. I've spoken to several NFL players --

KURTZ: Yes.

MCHENRY: -- sort of reporting on this, if you will, knowing I was coming on and they said you can't excuse. In fact, this couple players said this was the most vocal we've seen our fellow players get upset about a call. Because you normally you just take it as part of the game.

KURTZ: Yes. But if it happened in the first quarter, you know, it's a --

(CROSSTALK)

MCHENRY: I mean, if you had Cody Parkey at the Bears kicking that goal maybe the Saints would have won.

KURTZ: All right. So, do you think the rules should be change and do you think it will be changed?

MCHENRY: I think it should. Now if it will we've seen Commissioner Roger Goodell take his time with things. I can assure you he will be asked about this Wednesday, that's when he has his media availability at the Super Bowl.

KURTZ: Right. It's going to hang over the Super Bowl because there is a question whether one should have been there, not the New England Patriots, by the way.

(CROSSTALK)

MCHENRY: Well, and they've issue -- they've issued fines over some penalties not call to Rams player.

KURTZ: Yes.

MCHENRY: So, I think if you're a Saints fan especially when you see those fines going out and you go, whoa, you never even called anything, you're bitter.

KURTZ: Really briefly, Britt, some people in New Orleans suing for a do ever and even those Saints got robbed that's pretty far-fetched.

MCHENRY: Yes, I think they're just taking their anger out in an extreme way. But I think you need to have those vocal outbursts, so maybe change will be enacted.

KURTZ: Britt McHenry, thanks so much for doing some reporting for us on the football front. Well, that's it for this edition of Media Buzz. I'm Howard Kurtz. And we do a little sports at the end. hey, check out my new podcast. Media Buzz meter. We kick around the day's five days most important or fascinating and buzzy stories. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes or Google Play or Foxnewspodcasts.com.

Check out our Facebook page, we post my columns every day a lot of original video if you like to engage in a little dialogue with your comments. Same thing on Twitter at Howard Kurtz. Come at me. I've dealt with today's topics. Shutdown and Covington, and Roger Stone. You've got a lot to say. We will be back here Super Bowl Sunday actually, next Sunday, 11 Eastern. We'll see you then with the latest buzz.

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