Media hail Harris, bash Biden

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Media hail Harris, bash Biden

Senator's racially charged debate attack goes viral.

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," June 30, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On Buzz Meter this Sunday, President Trump dominating the news with surprise bit of diplomacy overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You hear the power of that voice. Nobody has heard that voice before. He doesn't do news, in case you haven't noticed. This was a special moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: Trump meeting Kim Jong-un in the DMZ and becoming the first sitting president to set foot on North Korean soil, but how skeptical is the president to produce any nuclear progress?

The media hail Kamala Harris and bashed Joe Biden as her racially charged attack on the former VP comes the dominant story, really the only story of the first Democratic debates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And she was bused to school every day and that little girl was me.

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: I thought she nailed. I thought her tone was perfect. Her personal story, if it holds up -- and I imagine it did -- just knocked it out of the park.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Kamala Harris with her fierceness last night and her aggression really -- and real skill, deftness, real command of the stage, I think folks are going to be really thinking about whether or not Joe Biden is electable.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I thought Kamala Harris -- I mean, she practiced that probably consistently for 10 days. I'm surprised that Vice President Biden had not practiced. He looked like a punch strong fighter waiting for the bell to ring and then finally says I'm out of time.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It was so crystal clear that Kamala Harris just completely commanded that stage. This was her debate. This was Kamala Harris's moment.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: I'm sorry, that was a sad moment. That was a sad moment for Biden.

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, OP-ED COLUMNIST FOR NEW YORK TIMES: I think Elizabeth Warren had a very strong night. The spotlight was very much on her. I think we may be seeing the end of Beto O'Rourke's candidacy.

GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Beto looked like this kind of flailing mediocrity. It's amazing what can happen when the entire media is not propping you up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: But is the press piling on Biden while muting criticism of Harris and Elizabeth Warren? Did the NBC moderator challenged the members of a party that has clearly lurched to the left?

Horrifying media reports of squalid conditions with children at border facilities spark a national uproar as Congress rushes to approve billions in funding. Is the press covering this as a human tragedy or an indictment of the Trump administration? Veteran journalist Sharyl Attkisson joins our discussion.

Plus, the star of U.S. women's soccer team blows off the national anthem and now she is insulting President Trump. The media debate over Megan Rapinoe.

I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."

There were 20 Democrats arguing over four hours in the debates on NBC and MSNBC but the media are fixated on one exchange, replaying it over and over between a former vice president and a black senator from California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: To hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and career of segregation of race in this country, and it was not only that but you also worked with them to oppose busing.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a mischaracterization of my position across the board. I did not trace racist. That is not true, number one. Number two, if we want to have this campaign litigated on who supports civil rights and whether I did or not, I'm happy to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now to go analyze the coverage: Emily Jashinsky, culture editor at The Federalist; Sara Fischer, media reporter for Axios; and Mo Elleithee, Fox News contributor and former DNC official who now runs Georgetown University's Institute of Politics.

Emily, let's put up the front page of today's New York Times. I want our viewers to take a look. Huge picture of Kamala Harris -- hope to zoom in more -- so, journalists on the left and right agree, strong moment for Kamala, weak moment for Biden, but it seems like many of them were just waiting to pounce on Joe Biden for misstep and to talk up someone like Kamala Harris who is more liberal and by the way not a white male.

EMILY JASHINSKY, CULTURE EDITOR, THE FEDERALIST: This definitely provided an opportunity for that. I agree with you that there's an eagerness to take that approach.

I think it's rooted in a coastal misunderstanding of the Democratic base, which is over 50 percent over the age of 50, which is over 50 percent self- identified moderate or conservative, according to who voted in the 2018 midterms.

And so while I absolutely agree that was fantastic moment for Kamala Harris --

KURTZ: Sure.

JASHINSKY: -- bad moment for Joe Biden, this conventional wisdom that devastated Joe Biden, this is the end of Joe Biden, this was catastrophic for Joe Biden, I think is wrong and I actually think that it speaks to an issue with the media's perception of the Democratic base.

KURTZ: Mo, when Biden tried to defend himself by saying he was only against federally mandated busing, the fact is, years ago, millions of people who were not racists, who hated having their kids bussed to far away schools and that included some black families who felt their kids were being sent to schools that were not friendly toward them, and so it seems to me the media don't really care about these details from the 1970s but they care that Biden got slapped down and looked defensive.

MO ELLEITHEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY'S INSTITUTE OF POLITICS: One, I do think that there is very little tolerance these days for evolution of positions or evolution of culture.

KURTZ: We are looking at it through a 2019 lens.

ELLEITHEE: Right, we lose sight of nuance and historical context too often. Now, look, I don't necessarily think the media was looking for an opportunity to knock Biden down a peg. I think the media was looking to see if anyone was going to try to knock Biden down a peg. This entire campaign has been remarkably static, right?

KURTZ: Yeah.

ELLEITHEE: Biden came in as a front-runner. His numbers have held. There has been very little that's happened in this race to shake up the dynamics of this race. The first night of the debate, I was actually a little surprised. I thought Biden was the winner of the first night of debate because no one touched him.

KURTZ: Yeah.

ELLEITHEE: Warren had a really good night, a remarkably good night, but no one touched him. The way Harris went after him on night two was maybe the first -- the first moment of this entire campaign that could --

KURTZ: OK.

ELLEITHEE: -- not exactly but could change the dynamic.

KURTZ: Big story undeniably. But here is why I think the press is not so affected. Many predicted that Biden would look weak and confused for the entire debate. And in my view, if you take those moments out, he had a pretty forceful performance. He got very emotional talking about the deaths of family members, when he was having a discussion about health care. But for the press, all that was washed away.

SARA FISCHER, MEDIA REPORTER, AXIOS: Completely. I think the press looks at Biden as symbolism for more moderate Democrats in general, and so they view him in this upside structure. Remember before he win, there was so much negative press as soon as he gets in the race --

KURTZ: He was going to implode on the first day.

FISCHER: Yeah. The polls go up and the coverage is so great. The other thing about this is all the press are saying that Biden is not talking to the press. If you actually took a look, he was doing a ton of cable news interviews afterwards. They kind of just love to put Biden in this very stark place.

KURTZ: I do think he could talk to the press more. He is playing cautious (ph). Obviously, Senator Harris's attack, we know that from the picture that she posted of herself on Twitter as that young girl in California who was bussed. There we see it.

And so here is The New York Times, should the Democrats nominate a white moderate who carries baggage or someone who is energizing younger and non- white voters, a candidate like Harris whose father is black and whose Mother was an Indian decent? Do we now see it tilt toward Kamala Harris?

JASHINSKY: Yeah, I think so, but more really is a tilt against Biden. That is what we were just discussing, that Joe Biden has attracted a lot of negative press -- I think undue negative press -- especially given his share of support in polling. I think it is out of touch with the support of the Democratic base that he has amount of negative press that he has earned since before his candidacy began.

KURTZ: Right.

JASHINSKY: And so I think to your earlier question, they saw an opening and seized on it. I do think that Kamala Harris -- it is more of anti-Biden tilt than pro-Harris tilt.

KURTZ: Politico headline, Mo. Harris takedown sparks speculation over Biden's black support. But then the story says, well, it is too early to say. So are some in the press starting to almost write Biden's obituary based on one rough debate exchange?

ELLEITHEE: Yeah, and I think --

(LAUGHTER)

ELLEITHEE: And I think this is -- one of my biggest -- when I was a campaign communication's director, one of my biggest frustrations, this isn't a new phenomenon. We tend -- the media tends to often live in the moment as opposed to realizing, this is the first of 12 debates and there are going to be many other moments on the debate stage --

KURTZ: Yeah.

ELLEITHEE: -- in Iowa, in New Hampshire, on the campaign trail. I'm -- you know, it was a bad night for Biden. It really was. But he has a chance to rebound. What does he do a month from now on the debate stage in Detroit is going to be far more telling to me than what happened the other night. KURTZ: Let's turn to NBC debate, the first night, those audio problems that sort of knocked it off for 10 minutes. President Trump tweeting, well, the show, NBC is a fake news organization. He couldn't resist. Let me play for you some sound from the second debate. The lead moderators are Lester Holt and Savannah Guthrie. And also a clip of Rachel Maddow, the liberal opinion host, who joined the four other journalists on the panel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: You said we shouldn't "demonize the rich". You said nobody has to be punished. What did you mean by that? What is your response to those who say nominating a socialist would re- elect Donald Trump?

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: No U.S. president has been prosecuted for crimes after leaving office. Do you believe that President Trump could or should be the first?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Well, Rachel Maddow, since she went last, clearly, she wanted to talk about the issue of Mueller investigation that has dominated her show for two years.

FISCHER: That's right. I mean, she's an opinion host. She's not really used to doing this sort of down the middle coverage. She wants to drum up the ratings. I think that is why they have her there. But I think overwhelming --

KURTZ: Why is that OK, whereas other networks, not mentioning any names, might have been criticized for having an opinion host who wasn't very liberal? FISCHER: I'm not saying that it is OK.

KURTZ: Yeah.

FISCHER: I think that they definitely were doing it to draw in the hyper liberal audience.

KURTZ: OK.

FISCHER: The ratings thing. I think overwhelming, NBC had a stronger night the second night than they did the first.

KURTZ: I was going to say that because I thought the first night was very critical, Lester Holt and Savannah Guthrie. I thought they asked bland questions. They didn't follow up even the candidates (INAUDIBLE). But I thought on the second night with Biden, Buttigieg, Bernie and Kamala, that they were much more aggressive.

FISCHER: Completely much more aggressive. You saw Chuck Todd following up with Amy Klobuchar, saying, "What are you going to do about taking away guns? What is your actual policy there?" The first night, it felt like they just want to get everyone in.

And so when you had Elizabeth Warren going off against the big oil and big banks and big tech, there was no follow up about what are you going to do about these policies. I think the second night was much stronger. But if they had had the same night the first night -- the second night as it did the first --

KURTZ: Yeah.

FISCHER: -- it kind of came across like NBC was pandering to very progressive policies the whole night.

KURTZ: Which very nice -- my next question, which is, I think the larger story here than one debate exchange, one or two debates in a long campaign, as Mo says, is that mainstream reporters -- I have to give credit here, including New York Times today -- are acknowledging that from free college to Medicare for All to -- in the second debate, all 10 candidates raising their hands, yes, I will provide health services to undocumented immigrants, which I don't think many would have said four years ago, that this party has moved sharply to the left since 2016 and that's a larger story here.

JASHINSKY: Yeah, that's something that primary cycles were often put on display, certainly when conservatives are running in post Tea Party world. We heard this narrative all the time, about how far right the Republican Party has moved. So it is a test of the press to see if that plays out because this is far-left players. We saw that unclear display over both nights.

Savannah Guthrie had a good moment where she did not let Bernie Sanders off the hook for raising tax on the middle class. She had a follow-up question where she got him to admit that his plan would indeed raise taxes on the middle class.

And so if the press can push that and really interrogate these candidates on what exactly they are proposing, that's a big moment for the Democratic Party. KURTZ: And Mo, Kamala Harris tried to walk it back with certain details, but basically she signed on to Bernie's Medicare for All. Therefore, she is in favor of blowing up private insurance for 150 million Americans. Elizabeth Warren, the same thing. She was asked a question about that. She didn't answer. The moderators didn't follow up. Isn't this the kind of thing where maybe the press isn't focused on now but where nominations can be pretty big issue in the fall?

ELLEITHEE: Kamala Harris has had to answer this question repeatedly out on the trail when she has done multiple media interviews on this issue, and she's caught flak from the press for her answers up to now.

KURTZ: Yeah.

ELLEITHEE: So, look, the challenge with the debate structure especially this, my hats off actually to the DNC for structuring this in a way that tried to create some control, you know, organize some chaos, you can't really dive too deep into any questions when you got 10 people on stage trying to duke it out with one another and give balance time.

KURTZ: Right. It's hard to follow up in such a crowded --

ELLEITHEE: That's right.

KURTZ: I want to get to this one last sound bite for you, Emily -- excuse me, Sara. Chris Matthews of MSNBC was doing after post-game interviews basically. Let's take a look at some of those.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: I believed in you tonight.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: Thank you.

MATTHEWS: I think you got into a fight.

DE BLASIO: Thank you very much.

MATTHEWS: Thank you. Stay in it.

Elizabeth Warren, I think you won tonight. I thought that you had a consistent, even relentless message of populism, pure American populism.

Is Biden finished after tonight?

HARRIS: No, I don't think so. No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Pretty friendly would you say? FISCHER: He's got to show the book for the next --

(LAUGHTER)

FISCHER: That is why you're going to be friendly, cozying up to the top runners, seriously.

JASHINSKY: That was a little over the top. (LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: Yeah. He practically seemed to be endorsing a couple of them. All right, Chris Christie, the former presidential candidate, former New Jersey governor, took a real whack at one of the moderators. Here he is on Colbert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: Please, God, can we say goodbye to Chuck Todd?

(LAUGHTER)

STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS HOST: Wow.

CHRISTIE: I mean, the most --

COLBERT: Wow.

CHRISTIE: -- the most pretentious know-it-all on network news. The guy is just a complete ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Chris Christie does not like Chuck Todd based on some past interviews. Whether you like or don't like Chuck Todd, he was actually the most aggressive questioner, I think, because he knows how to frame questions aggressively, which is what we kind of do in cable.

When we come back, President Trump is seizing control, the media agenda with his last-minute meeting in Kim Jong-un in the Korean DMZ.

And later, The New York Times says it was too cautious reporting on a 25- year-old sexual assault allegation against the president. Is that true?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: While America was asleep, President Trump seized on a last minute invitation by meeting with Kim Jong-un in the Demilitarized Zone between north and south, and then took a few historic steps into the north.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We went and met at the line and in meeting at the line, I said, would you like me to come across. He said, I would be so honored.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: The president also took a swipe at the press for its coverage of the "fiery mess" there before he took office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You don't report it accurately, but that's OK. Someday, history will record it accurately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Trump met with North Korea's leader for an hour and said they agreed to appoint teams to get the stalled nuclear disarmament talks back on track. Emily, one thing to me they have to acknowledge about this president who made this DMZ meeting happened at the last second on Twitter --

JASHINSKY: Yeah.

KURTZ: -- and wind up walking at the North Korean territory, he is a heck of a showman.

JASHINSKY: Right. I think that was largely reflected in the establishment media coverage. It was acknowledged as a made for TV moment. I didn't see anything really objectionable in the establishment media news coverage. The chorus of pundits was overwhelming negative and has been overwhelming negative so far. I think there is certainly some room for that.

I think history will judge the wisdom of this decision, but I don't -- I think the balance is way off. I think there is also a lot of room for acknowledging the historical nature of this, for acknowledging the president has done a lot of things people don't expect him to be capable of. So, again, I think the pundits are what really dragging this coverage in an imbalanced direction.

KURTZ: Many of them are still waking up. Most of us didn't know about this until we got up. Washington Post headline story, Trump scores his biggest live show yet in North Korea. I sense a kind of almost grudging admiration for his showmanship skills.

FISCHER: Oh, 100 percent. By the way, this is his favorite photo-op. He loves to look big and charismatic next to a shorter Kim Jong-un. This is perfect for Donald Trump.

KURTZ: I've thought of that angle. FISCHER: Yeah, absolutely. But the one thing that I cost (ph), if you look at the big tech platforms like Twitter and Facebook, a lot of the crowds' first comments are referring back to Otto Warmbier. So here you have -- here is a historical moment --

KURTZ: Yeah.

FISCHER: And then you also have -- where are questions about Otto Warmbier in the past? I think that is an interesting juxtaposition.

KURTZ: And yet some critics in the media say that this was a glorified photo-op -- we love photo-ops -- that he has gotten North Korea to freeze most of its nuclear testing, but there has basically been no progress since the unsuccessful second summit in Hanoi and this is just a (INAUDIBLE).

ELLEITHEE: Yeah. I think the coverage actually, particularly the establishment coverage, has pointed that out. It has pointed out that this is historic. This is a great made for TV moment for the president. He is accomplishing sort of what he likes through the lens of the camera. But has the president overstated some of the progress so far considering that North Korea has not stopped its nuclear build up?

It has not stopped testing ballistic missiles, while he today touted that they were returning hostages, there was the Otto Warmbier situation and there was -- you know, the Pentagon itself says that we kind of stalled talks on hostage release.

And so there has been a bit of a -- sort of like fact-checking that is going on with the establishment media while still acknowledging the historic nature of the event.

JASHINSKY: And to that question, I would say, is it possible that the press has understated the values of what President Trump has done? Possible the president as any other president would overstate their progress. I think it is probably true also that the press has understated the potential for value in what he has done.

KURTZ: I think this will look very different in six months or a year. If progress starts being made, this could be turning point. It will just be seen as another handshake in front of the cameras in a historic place obviously if there is very little progress in North Korea.

I said to my staff a couple of days ago, the president is going to do something to regain, to commandeer the news cycle over the weekend because it was dominated obviously by the two nights of Democratic debates and also by the news that Robert Mueller is going to testify before a couple of House committees on July 17th. There was a huge build-up over that and it's going to be a massive TV spectacle, of course.

But what surprised me about all the media excitement about this is Mueller has made very clear, he said in one appearance he is not going to go beyond what's actually in his report, he will probably try to be dull and somewhat bureaucratic as former FBI director.

I think many liberals have a sense that if he just reads from the report, that that would be a game changer because most people haven't read the report. Very quick thought from you on that.

ELLEITHEE: I think that -- you know, we are just talking about TV moments, right? Having Robert Mueller sitting there on camera answering questions even if he answers them the way he has answered them a million times before, it is an image that the American people have not seen or internalized yet and that is powerful just as the president standing up there shaking hands with North Korea dictator. FISCHER: When he came out to that press release, that press conference, it was the first time we heard from him --

KURTZ: Yeah.

FISCHER: -- we did see a little bit of media bounce right after that because the public saw him restate it. We could see that again. KURTZ: I just think he could turn out to be disappointed with all the press build-up that is going to resume closer to the time.

All right, Emily Jashinsky, Sara Fischer, Mo Elleithee, thanks very much for coming by this Sunday.

Ahead, the White House has new press secretary, who got hurt at the DMZ, by the way. How will Stephanie Grisham deal with reporters?

And later, the media is highlighting awful conditions of children at the border, but are some outlets straying into advocacy?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Stephanie Grisham, the brand-new White House press secretary, was injured on the job today while fighting on behalf of reporters. Grisham suffered some bruises when a scuffle broke out in the DMZ between North Korean security officials and journalists covering President Trump's last minute meeting with Kim Jong-un.

It was chaos, one reporter said. Grisham was shouting go, go, as she tried to create a path for U.S. correspondents and camera people to cover the historic meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey, hey. Back off. Back off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. No. Let go. Help here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Talk about baptism of fire. Grisham, who had been Melania Trump's deputy chief of staff, also served as White House communications director. It's hardly a household name. But with the family's confidence, she was the obvious choice to replace Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Grisham has only done a handful of TV interviews such as one she was asked how she squares Melania's campaign against cyber bullying with her husband's Twitter tirades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How does she balance her platform against some of the things that the president does?

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think that honestly one thing really doesn't have anything to do with the other, and she is focused on helping children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: When CNN contributor Kate Brower Andersen said Melania doesn't understand the role of first lady, Grisham pushed back hard and wrote a piece for CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was your problem with the CNN contributor's review of the first lady?

GRISHAM: Well, first of all, she just got her facts wrong, so I felt it was very, very important to set those facts straight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Since there is no indication that the daily press briefings were overturned, Trump obviously prefers talking to reporters himself almost every day, Stephanie Grisham will never be as high profile as her predecessor, but she will play a crucial role dealing with journalists behind the scenes. If today's dustup in Korea is any indication, she does not back down from a fight.

Next on "Media Buzz," Sharyl Attkisson on Donald Trump joking with Vladimir Putin about Russian hacking and fake news. And later, things are getting pretty nasty between the president and the star of the U.S. women soccer team.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Many journalists are upset to say the least, by couple of joking exchanges at G20 in Japan between the leaders of America and Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You don't have that problem in Russia We have it. You don't have it.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Yes, yes, yes. We have the problem. The same.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, will you tell Russia not to meddle in the 2020 election?

TRUMP: Yes, of course, I will. Don't meddle in the election, President. Don't, don't meddle in the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Who is loud in there.

Are the pundits overreacting to a light moment? Joining us now Sharyl Attkisson, a host of the Sunday program Full Measure on Sinclair television station. So, is the president trolling the media here, joking with Putin about Russian interference in the election, which is well documented, and about fake news and getting rid of journalists with an authoritarian whose regime murders journalists and jails them.

SHARYL ATTKISSON, HOST, SINCLAIR BROADCAST GROUP: Well, there is certainly room for criticism, that sort of his is M.O., isn't it? But as your clip pointed out, there was a reporter who said to President Trump, "are you going to tell Putin not to meddle not to meddle in the 2020 election?" It's a sort of question for which there's no right answer.

We ask him all the time because it may elicit, I guess, a news worthy response and it did. But either could have ignored it or said yes or said no and what he did was choose to make a little bit light of it.

KURTZ: Right. He was asked about that and follow up the president just sort of deflected rather than say, yes, I was only joking. There is, as you know, as well escalating rhetoric on both sides. The president he recently accused the New York Times of treason, or virtual treason in connection with the story about cyber warfare in Russia. In your view has the overall mainstream media coverage of this president been not just negative but has it blood over into being hostile?

ATTKISSON: It has. And you know, people rightfully point out President Trump's own role in that. But I then go back to arguing that we as journalists regardless of how the subject of our reporting treats us have an obligation to maintain our normal neutrality and fairness and ethical standards.

And what's been different about this president the way we've treated him is we have overtly suspended many of our normal ethical standards and practices because we have declared him to be uniquely dangerous and hostile to America, so, you know, we've excused ourselves.

I argue that it is more important than ever when you're covering somebody that you don't like or don't agree with to maintain your ethical standards. That's really the reasons I think that those things exist.

KURTZ: I argued that as well, and it's just because the person you're covering doesn't like you, or your profession or attacks your profession. There's no justification for suspending those standards as you just put it so well.

Another issue that's kind of has bubbled back into news, start with this. Dean Baquet, executive editor of the New York Times, now says his paper was overly cautious in covering the 25-year-old sexual assault allegation Trump by inviting the columnist E. Jean Carroll. The paper had interviewed Carroll, which is where this allegation appears, but didn't featured the story on the front page or its homepage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. JEAN CARROLL, TRUMP ACCUSER: I think most people think of rape as being sexy.

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN: Let's take a short break --

(CROSSTALK)

CARROLL: They think of the fantasies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And why didn't she go public with her story about Trump, allegedly raping her in a New York department store's dressing room back when other women were making allegations against Trump in 2016?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you consider speaking out then?

CARROLL: No, because they were doing the job, they were coming forward, they were -- you know, an army of women, they were coming forward. So, I sat back and let -- also, I thought it was my fault and when -- if it was going to come forward, I would have to say I was stupid, I was a nitwit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: So, the New York Times covered it, published the story, checked it out, said we couldn't corroborate it. Since has gotten two of her friends which she told later to go on the record.

ATTKISSON: Who didn't want to be named.

KURTZ: Didn't want to be named initially, and now have been named. But now, after that criticism the Times editor says, well, we weren't aggressive enough. And then on Friday, front page story, a long story about E. Jean Carroll. So, it's not just the Times but other outlets are they sort of feeling the heat from the left over this?

ATTKISSON: Well, they are, and public outcry and maybe the Me Too movement and so on but I don't think it's our job to kind of respond to the reaction to how we cover the story and then cover it differently. I really don't want to second-guess the Times' own assessment of itself. That's what they view that they were overly cautious.

But as a journalist, I don't think overly cautious particularly for stories and allegations like this is a bad thing. I looked back to during the Clinton years, we, at CBS News, when I worked there, had many more obligations than we ever reported on. And we delivered it those with a lot of thought because it wasn't because we didn't believe the women. We weren't in a position to know enough. There wasn't enough evidence to point to that that would justify based on our evidence and standards making a story that could be so damaging out of the things that they were saying.

KURTZ: Is this about Trump or others?

ATTKISSON: This was about Clinton in the past. Bill Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: I do seem to remember that environment.

ATTKISSON: So, I'm saying, you know, I think overly cautious is not a bad thing when we're talking about these sorts of allegations.

KURTZ: Right. Now, Trump didn't help himself by saying of E. Jean Carroll, well, she's not my type. A lot of people found that offensive. But in this climate for journalists given how difficult it is for women to come forward, are they almost allowed to say, well, I have doubts about her story or she's saying some odd things in interviews as we just saw?

ATTKISSON: You know, on full measure we covered a story that I called it shades of gray. And it looked at the very valid Me Too movement components of that but how that can be weaponized in a way that is unfair to the people who are accused and may not be guilty.

And we had an example of a man who was accused of rape allegations. The police we're told that he was guilty of rape and so on. In the end, he wasn't, he sued, the woman retracted her claim but he'd been destroyed.

I think we as journalists should point out both sides and should be mindful that although we want to believe women and that victims are typically to be believed, we, as journalists can't suspend again, our ethical standards and practices and the thought of evidence just because we like somebody or we feel sorry for them or we wish to believe them.

KURTZ: That's a great example. Now you've reported several times from the Mexican border, we're going to talk about these mixed events in the next block. But when you've been down there have you seen a different picture than let's say, the overall media narrative?

ATTKISSON: Yes. So, I'd be heading back then in a couple of weeks for more reporting, and I go and just listen. You know, I don't go with an agenda of what kind of story to prove or cover.

And what I hear when I'm there is far more reflective of what the polling shows nationally that, you know, vast majority of the American public is compassionate and feeling about the problems that people have when they're coming here and want to come here, but also believe we should have a secure border and that we have a problem.

One of the most interesting stories was when I went to Laredo, Texas, which is, has a Hispanic mayor, mostly Hispanic town, Hispanic law enforcement, they are tough boy on border security there and they explain why. There's a criminal concern if they are not protective of the border in their community.

They also rely on business south of the border with their friends in Mexico. So, it's an integral relationship to Laredo, but it's textured in nuance in much more like what you hear from the general public than what you may see represented on the news.

KURTZ: So classic example of when you actually report a story you may see things that are different.

ATTKISSON: Yes.

KURTZ: Than a narrative which is not to say there hasn't been good reporting on the subject but I also will talk about this in next block, I think there's been people who have very definite views about it. Sharyl, great to have you back on the program, great to see you.

ATTKISSON: Thanks a lot.

KURTZ: Thanks so much. After the break, a whole lot of finger-pointing about terrible conditions for kids at the border and the chilling photo that maybe changing the media debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Here's the lead from an A.P. report from Texas. A 2-year-old boy locked in detention wants to be held all the time. A few girls ages 10 to 15 say they've been doing their best to feed and soothe the clingy toddler. Lawyers warn that kids are taking care of kids and there's inadequate food, water and sanitation for the 250 infants, children's and teens -- children and teens at the border patrol station.

Now such stories prompted the Trump administration to temporarily move more than 250 migrant children from a center in Clint, Texas and plenty of punditry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN HENNESSEY, LEGAL ANALYST, CNN: There's an extra layer of cruelty here imposed by the Trump administration's policy of child separation taking kids away from their parents.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: I saw the resistance media who denied there was a crisis all along. Just remember that they supposedly care about children and everybody else more than you do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Now Congress rushed to pass $4.5 billion in border funding with House Democrats caving to the Senate by dropping spending restrictions strongly oppose by the president.

Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Gayle Trotter, a lawyer and host of the Right in D.C. podcast here in Washington. And in West Palm Beach, Cathy Areu, founder of the Hispanic magazine Catalina and a former Washington Post magazine editor.

Gayle, the reporting on this particular facility in Texas was dead on, the administration moved quickly to get the kids out of there. At the same time, do you believe many in the press have an agenda here?

GAYLE TROTTER, HOST, RIGHT IN D.C. PODCAST: Clearly, they do. Because in January when President Trump drew attention to the border crisis, the media reporting and the Democratic politicians were all saying that Trump had manufactured the crisis. And if you look at the reporting from this week, they're not acknowledging the basic issue that a country needs to secure its borders and they don't detail, except for Washington Post.

I will say there was one article by the Washington Post that talked about how there's a legal history of this going back to the Obama administration and the Clinton administration with the Flores settlement in 1997, but most of the media are silent on the need for a border and they're silent on the fact that this is something that's been going on for at least 20 years.

KURTZ: But Cathy, if the A.P. and other outlets shine the spotlight on dangerous and unsanitary conditions and force the White House and Congress to react, is that a positive agenda?

CATHY AREU, PUBLISHER, CATALINA MAGAZINE: Well, yes, it's the tail wagging the dog, so the media definitely got the dog going because Pelosi and the Democrats rushed right away. They heard from the Latino leaders in the country and they heard also from their constituents and others who said we need to do something about the humanitarian crisis at the border that was created by Trump.

They're not saying there's a financial crisis in the country created by undocumented citizens, undocumented people, they're saying that there's a humanitarian issue at the border created by Trump.

So, it's a play on words. But the media has also been covering since the Obama years. I mean, detention centers, have been photos taken there, they've been talked about in the New York Times, for example, has been covering this for years during the Obama years.

KURTZ: All right.

AREU: They were saying that there was a crisis.

KURTZ: Let me jump in. I bet you, Gayle, want to respond to that.

AREU: So, this is not new.

KURTZ: But let me ask you first, Gayle. Reporters right now are not allowed in these facilities. There was an after the fact damage control tour. So, everything is coming secondhand from lawyers who are visiting. So, you had this past week, the director of the Immigrants' Rights Clinic at Colombia Law School, a top official at Human Rights Watch being interviewed on TV., so are media outlets relying on advocates?

TROTTER: They certainly are. And you can even look at it some of it in their reporting where I think the journalists don't even realize that they're building a case against the people that they are using as evidence to talk about these places. One of the lawyers that was interviewed in the New Yorker piece talks about how it would be cheaper to send these children with their parents in the U.S., it will be cheaper for the U.S. taxpayer. What that doesn't make sense on a financial basis and they don't push back about that at all in their own articles.

So, when you look even in their own reporting these people that they are relying on for all the evidence about the conditions in these places are people who are partisans and they have an agenda on these issues and that's not journalistic, good journalistic standard.

KURTZ: Now, Cathy, I think journalists in many cases have no choice because they cannot get inside these facilities so they're talking to people who have. But should there be a more forthright acknowledgment that some of these people who were able to visit the facilities are in fact, advocates on this issue of illegal immigration?

AREU: Well, those who could speak Spanish, Latino reporters, Spanish reporters do talk to the people who live in these facilities and they talk about their conditions. So, we heard about a father this week who said he was able to find his child because the child was wearing a bracelet who said U.S. parent on it.

So, we are hearing from the Latinos who speak Spanish from Univision and Telemundo, so the Spanish reporters can hear about people from those facilities as well once they do get out. And they are there longer than usual under this administration, but this is not a crisis, a humanitarian crisis only under this administration.

KURTZ: All right.

AREU: So, it's good that this is being brought forward because we are having a problem and 2019, the United States should not be treating people like this anywhere under any condition.

KURTZ: All right. I got about a minute. So, briefly from both of you. The A.P. photo, we're going to put it up here, that ran on the front page of New York Times and many other papers showing a migrant father and his daughter drowned in the Rio Grande, near the Texas border, it's absolutely chilling.

Gayle, is the press using that against Trump as if he is somehow responsible. I mean, it's an incredibly newsworthy and heartbreaking photo.

TROTTER: It is, and we don't have photos of the other 200 people who died in 2018, we don't hear from the media how a soft border is creating this crisis, they blame it all on Trump. And unfortunately, when you have these heart-rending situations and they don't report how organizations like Doctors Without Borders are talking about how one-third of women who try to make this journey to the United States because we have not enforced our borders, they are being sexually assaulted.

KURTZ: Cathy, the president was asked about this. He said he hated the photos, he said laws need to be changed, but images are powerful in our society. Has that picture influenced the media debate? Just briefly.

AREU: That picture specifically, I think is the one that sparked the specific debate with Pelosi that woke everyone up, I think immediately. And I actually watched it real-time when it came out and media outlet that would be considered liberal was saying this is horrific, but they kept it on for about five minutes.

And I was even offended as a journalist watching the coverage that they didn't take it away; they didn't black anything out.

KURTZ: Yes.

AREU: And I think in the old media days it would have been kept for after 11 or with a warning for children not to look at that.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Right. That's a real --

AREU: But nowadays, middle of the day, not appropriate. It was not appropriate.

(CROSSTALK)

TROTTER: But how can this wake everybody up when President Trump has been talking about this since 2015?

KURTZ: All right.

TROTTER: We don't need a photo to wake us up.

AREU: They've been talking financial things not humanitarian things.

KURTZ: We're out of -- I think you both have read (Ph) at least on the impact of the photo and maybe was up too long. Gayle Trotter, Cathy Areu, thanks so much for this important discussion.

Still to come, the captain of the U.S. women's soccer team fouls President Trump pretty hard and he kicks the ball right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Now as the World Cup action, the star of U.S. women's soccer team, Megan Rapinoe had already drawn flack, refusing to sing the national anthem what she said was a protest, then a reporter asked her about President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you excited about going to the White House?

MEGAN RAPINO, FOOTBALL MIDFIELDER: I'm not going to the (muted) White House. No, we're not going to the White House. That's -- we're not going to be invited.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: The president took to Twitter, saying "Megan should win first before she talks, finish the job."

Joining us now, Britt McHenry, host of the Un-P.C. on Fox Nation and a former ESPN reporter. And you know some of these players, you've kicked the ball around with them. So, Megan Rapinoe score two golds on Friday. The U.S. beat France heading into the semifinals.

Does it surprise you that in the glare of the biggest spotlight of her career Megan Rapinoe would be protesting the anthem and then using the f word to trash President Trump.

BRITT MCHENRY, FOX NEWS HOST: It does not surprise me. She's been vocal about this, she started participating in kneeling during the anthem when Colin Kaepernick was getting a lot of headlines for that as well back in 2017. U.S. soccer changed their platform which I've always been against.

Because I think if you wear USA on your jersey it comes with the territory. She is very vocal for the LGBT community and now she's effectively become a martyr for the left, and she's the perfect hero to the anti-Trump message. In fact, the New York Times had a headline saying she's the leader of her team and generation in her time.

KURTZ: Well, since you brought it up, I have a New York Times story for you.

MCHENRY: OK.

KURTZ: For Megan Rapinoe boldness in the spotlight is nothing new. Here's the Atlantic. Megan Rapinoe is her generation's Muhammad Ali. So, her athletic exploits aside, she's obviously very good soccer player and captain, why has she become a hero to the left is because she trashes Trump among other things?

MCHENRY: She's about to turn 34 on July 5th, so this could be her last World Cup and I think my criticism is exactly what Trump said, and I don't think the media focused on this enough because they are usually, there's a majority that isn't a fan of him, not everybody.

But she needs to -- they need to win first. They did beat the third-ranked country France, she's athletically superior. I think the mainstream America also fell in love with her in 2011 in the World Cup. She went into a boom after like after scoring goal and saying, born in the USA. So, she does have patriotism. I think the country would disagree on how she's displaying it abroad.

KURTZ: Yes. Well, she's certainly obviously very political because she has accepted an invite to visit the House from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: You know, she doesn't like the president. So, look, I get it. She's a gay athlete. She's unhappy with things in this country, she despises Trump, that's why she said no way would she ever go to the White House.

But I got to say, you know, she's representing the United States of America in the World Cup. And so, I'm offended. Like why does she have to choose this moment, I guess you could say well, this is why when people are listening to say things and why are the media not saying she's controversial, maybe she shouldn't have done this instead, she's Muhammad Ali, she's bold, she's amazing.

MCHENRY: And when you compare it to John Isner last year at Wimbledon when he said he supported the president, all the headlines, most of them were particularly negative against the ninth ranked tennis player in the world representing our country.

So, I'm with you on why there's difference in treatment, but I do think knowing and interviewing the team how close knit they are, if they win and if they get invited, I won't be surprised if none of them show up.

KURTZ: Out of solidarity with Megan Rapinoe.

MCHENRY: Yes. Ali Krieger and Alex Morgan already come out in support of her. And they have a lot of people that belong to LGBTQ community on that team and they may ban together.

KURTZ: I just think it's very telling at one -- you mentioned tennis player who supported President Trump, you know, that gets criticism when she does this, you know, people can support her or not support her but I would like to see a little more balance in the coverage.

Britt McHenry, great to see you. Nice to end with a sports segment. And that is it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. Hey, check out my new podcast, Media Buzz Meter. We rift on the days' five hottest stories. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google Play or foxnewspodcast.com.

We also hope like our Facebook page. We do original videos there. We post it every day along with my daily column. And on Twitter, let's have a good discussion about the media coverage at Howard Kurtz. I look forward to interacting with some of you on all the social media platform.

We're back here next Sunday morning 11 Eastern. We'll see you then with the latest buzz.

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