This is a rush transcript from "MediaBuzz" September 26, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): No one can deny it. Even the media people most sympathetic to the president are letting him off the hook over the absolutely awful images from a Texas border town. The squalid conditions and mistreatment of tens of thousands of Haitian migrants have intensified the increasingly negative coverage of Joe Biden.
But as appalling as the crisis, too many media outlets seized on a report that turned out to be false. This was the lie that horse riding border patrol agents were whipping the migrants that included mentions why among others "Reuters," "Politico" and a CNN international correspondent.
The "El Paso Times" reported that one agent menacingly swung his reigns like a whip, charging his horse toward the men in the river, later running a clarification that it was not a whip. These were reigns used to control the horses.
Al Jazeera English reported on the images with this headline. U.S. border patrol uses whips on Haitian migrants. The interpretation later contradicted by its reporter, John Holman, not to mention the photographer who shot the pictures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN HOLMAN, AL JAZEERA ENGLISH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was a lot of talk about whips and lassos. What we actually saw was them using long reigns on their horses and flicking them towards people. So I didn't actually personally see any whips.
GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: These networks, these people had no interest in this story until they could create an acceptable villain in law enforcement. All these other bozos who pretend to be journalists then pretend to have a story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): This in no way minimizes the humanitarian disaster at the border, one of the series of magnifying messes that prompted this pronouncement not from Biden's conservative critics but from NBC's Chuck Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: I think he's got a pretty big credibility crisis on his hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."
Ahead, Donald Trump sues "The New York Times" over the leak of his taxes and why is television spending so much time on the sad killing of Gabby Petito.
The mistreatment of the Haitian migrants drew a sharp reaction even from Biden supporters at the view.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA HAINES, ABC HOST: The way people are being treated on that to me is absolutely more disturbing.
SUNNY HOSTIN, ABC HOST: So disappointed in the Biden administration today. So very disappointed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Biden finally spoke to reporters Friday after the televised images had drawn criticism even from Kamala Harris, with his special envoy to Haiti resigning in protest and tough words from most pundits left and right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Do you take responsibility for the chaos that's unfolding?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Of course, I take responsibility. I'm president. But it was horrible, what you saw. To see people treated like they did, horses running over people being strapped, it's outrageous. I promise you, those people will pay.
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: We've got a democratic administration overseeing border patrol on horseback with whatever implement they were using in their hands, in the face of powering and terrified, folks fleeing crisis in the Rio Grande waters. I mean, that was not Donald Trump's customs and border patrol. That was Joe Biden's.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: The scenes in Del Rio look like refugee camps in Sudan: Squalor, hunger, children crying, makeshift shelters, pleas for help. Is this what Biden meant by build back better?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The humanitarian crisis at the border, what is the Biden administration going to do? It's not enough to be horrified. It's on your watch, okay?
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Look at this. An "AP" reporter is even calling Biden's self-inflicted crisis -- quote -- "uncontrollable events." Seriously, how are they uncontrollable when he caused them?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Ben Domenech, founder and publisher of "The Federalist," and Mara Liasson, NPR's national political reporter. Both are Fox News contributors.
Ben, why are so many liberal TV hosts and left-leaning outlets castigating President Biden over this undeniable disaster with Haitian migrants rather than defending them as they usually do?
BEN DOMENECH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER OF THE FEDERALIST: Well, I think you saw this week this slow-rolling disaster really become something that was impossible to ignore. The past several months have been disastrous on the border. We've seen that area in crisis for quite a long time now in ways that are really unprecedented when you look at the numbers.
But this, I think, was the period in which it became impossible to defend the administration and their approach. It's not enough to get on TV and just say don't come. You have to actually make policy changes that deal with this problem.
And I think to a certain extent, people who normally either holds back on their criticism of the White House or even carry water for them see this as something that's impossible to defend and the distraction and embarrassment of that whole fake whip story was something that I think actually brought a lot of attention.
It served as kind of an attraction of energy to this because it was one so obviously false but then resulted in this role of a number of different Democratic politicians, including the president himself, criticizing border patrol that is clearly overwhelmed at this stage.
And just one more point, Howie, about this. I think it's important to ask why these certain things happen. You know, you don't just have this group of Haitians show up together in mass in a disorganized fashion. It's something that's allowed to happen by the Mexican cartel.
So I hope that a lot of these places that finally are starting to pay attention to it start digging into why these things are happening --
KURTZ: Right.
DOMENECH: -- why people are being moved in the way that they are and who benefits from it.
KURTZ: Right. That false whip story unfortunately went pretty viral. Now, thankfully, the administration has gotten most of these Haitian migrants to shelters.
But Mara, "The New York Times" hurled what would be considered the worst possible insult at Biden by saying that these terrible images in Del Rio come straight from Donald Trump's immigration playbook. Fair point for the press to make?
MARA LIASSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR NPR: Look, there is a lot of hot takism going on but the Biden administration is in a big mind -- big bind on the border because they sent a more welcoming message.
And in that same segment on NPR that you just pulled the quote from the Al Jazeera photographer who said he didn't see any whips, we also interviewed a reporter who explained that the reason why all those Haitians were at the border is because through their own networks of information, a lot of it word of mouth, they heard that Biden was going to be more welcoming.
And one of the stories that I certainly hope we all look into is what the Biden administration thought would happen at the border when it sent a more welcoming message. Of course, people were going to flock there and they got the message that if they have kids especially, they were going to be let into the United States.
KURTZ: Right.
LIASSON: And COVID was another big driver of this.
KURTZ: Sure. That particular interview was with the Al Jazeera reporter. But Ben, you know, I'm so struck --
LIASSON: Right.
KURTZ: -- by the way the incoming is coming from left and right as we pointed out. As we've showed the clip, you have conservatives saying, look, it's these more permissive policies that cause this surge, and that earlier one with all the Central American migrants going to Mexico. And then you have liberals say that deporting some of the Haitians, Biden is embracing laws and tactics, favored by Trump, so everybody is unhappy.
DOMENECH: uh-huh, yes, you have the progressives who are very unhappy with those images. You have the criticism from Democrat members of Congress such as Henry Cuellar. You have a number of different people who have been sounding a warning note on this for a while. But the focus has mostly been on what was going on in Washington, on reconciliation, on all of these big budget deals that Democrats are pushing through.
And I think that this is a problem that you just can't ignore it anymore. The images are too striking. They are something that once you see them, they don't really feel or look like what something that should be happening in the United States of America.
And, you know, in the case of the people who are being confronted by those folks on horseback, you know, a lot of what was going on there was crossing the river in order to buy groceries and then sell them at marked up prices within these camps, to the people who are living there. That is something that we never want to see happen along the border.
This kind of chaos sends a message that the White House has to hate and until they make major changes in policy, they are only likely to continue.
KURTZ: Yeah. They now ban the use of horses but, of course, that's a stopgap measure. Mara, after Afghanistan and the disastrous pullout there, after the COVID and all the people still haven't gotten vaccinated, Ben mentioned the gridlock on the Hill, is more of the press coming around to Chuck Todd's view that President Biden faces a significant credibility crisis?
LIASSON: Well, there's no doubt that this has been the roughest stretch for the Biden administration. I think it's perfectly fair for the media to call that out. He's got a lot of problems. But to say that it's all over or that he's a failed administration, I think, maybe is going too far.
There's a lot of pressure for pundits to make a grand pronouncement and sometimes the more apocalyptic the better. But look, this is a president who is elected to be competent and calm and solve these big problems first and foremost COVID. And any time it looks like he's struggling, that hurts him and his party and it actually makes all of the problems harder to solve.
When the president's approval ratings are dropping, he has less juice to force the two sides in his party to come to a negotiated compromise on the reconciliation bill, for instance.
KURTZ: Yeah, it's kind of a spiral. Let me play a clip from --
LIASSON: Yeah, it sounds enforcing.
KURTZ (on camera): -- one of Jen Psaki's press briefings. PBS's Yamiche Alcindor was very adversarial to Donald Trump and vice versa and clearly has been sympathetic to President Biden asking this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWSHOUR: Why isn't the president telling people himself these images that people say look like slavery are wrong? Me as president, I as president condemn them. How is he not doing that?
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: His actions make clear how horrible and horrific he thinks these images are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Ben, that was before the president finally spoke Friday. But is it a factor for some journalists and activists that it's Black people here who are being mistreated?
DOMENECH: Well, I certainly think that the racial component here is one that attracts more attention because it's so deeply uncomfortable to see the imagery, like I said, sticks with you.
But I want to circle back to something that Mara said which is that, you know, this really does cut to the core of what Joe Biden's appeal was supposed to be. Bringing back normalcy, bringing back unity, bringing back stability was a big reason that a lot of people supported him and it is creating buyer's remorse in a significant way that you can see in the polling data heading into the midterms next year.
Obviously, that that's a long way away, but Democrats already know that the difference between having a Biden administration that's at about 50 percent approval and the difference between having him in the low 40s or even hitting 40 itself is the difference between an election that is still going to be very positive for Republicans in all likelihood and one that is a wave that turns some of these purple states red and turns blue states dangerous for them. They're very aware of that and it's very present of mind.
KURTZ: Mara, Biden spent days ducking the press, not taking questions, until he finally took a couple press questions on Friday. We played the clip earlier. Letting his aides take the heat. Even as Kamala Harris went out there, the vice president is saying human beings should never be treated this way. Was it a mistake to let several news cycles go by without Biden trying to communicate directly through the media?
LIASSON: Yeah, that's a really good question. The media is always focused because look, we're in there every day, it's our job. How often is the president taking questions? And if he's not taking questions or holding enough formal press conferences for our liking, we tend to think that's a bad thing.
I think overall, the most important thing is that the White House figures out a way to stabilize all of these various crises and get their message out. How many times Biden takes questions from the press and how long he stands there for Q&A I think is less important to the public.
KURTZ: I'm not doing it as a scorecard. I just think that when you have this disaster unfolding on our television screens --
LIASSON: Yeah.
KURTZ: -- the president looks like a bystander when he's not taking questions from the press.
LIASSON: That's the key thing.
KURTZ: Low key style works when things are going well not so much when things aren't going well.
LIASSON: Yeah. That's right. I think that's right. You know, he doesn't want to look like he's hiding and that's why I think he's made a point several times of always saying the buck stops with me, I'm responsible for all of this.
KURTZ: Yeah, he did take responsibility on Friday. Let me get a break. When we come back, Donald Trump suing "The New York Times" and his niece over the leak of his income tax records. Does he have a case?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): There's a bombshell "New York Times" story that revealed the president's tax returns. Trump engaged in suspect tax schemes as he reaped riches from his father. Now, Donald Trump is suing "The New York Times" on what he calls an insidious plot, as well as his niece, cable news fixture Mary Trump, who signed a confidentiality agreement two decades ago in settling a suit over a family inheritance.
But this much is true. Mary Trump acknowledged in "The Daily Beast" podcast that one of the three times reporters named as defendants, Suzanne Craig, got her to cough up the confidential returns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY TRUMP, NIECE OF DONALD TRUMP (voice-over): It's entirely down to the brilliant Suzanne Craig, for one, reminding me that I had them and two, and so effectively and tenaciously tried to convince, I mean, it took her months before I did. So it's entirely down to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): The "Times" says this lawsuit is an attempt to silence independent news organizations and we plan to vigorously defend against it. Ben, this is a breach of confidentiality suit, not a libel suit. And here is Mary Trump who hated her uncle for two decades admitting that "The New York Times" reporter persuaded her to turn over the president's tax records. Does he have a case at least against her?
DOMENECH: It certainly seems like he does given the nature of this agreement. It is not one that we know the specifics about necessarily yet though I'm sure that we will learn about them during the course of this case. I would be much more concerned if I were in her position in this circumstance than I would if I was at "The New York Times."
But we should keep in mind that this is part of this overall trend of adjudicating a lot of things like this that I think is going to become an even bigger and regular part of covering politicians going forward. You may have seen, for instance, the allowance that the lawsuit defamation suit brought by Congressman Devin Nunes against journalist Ryan Lizza was allowed to proceed this past week.
This is going to be a type of thing that I think we see happen more and more regularly in the era when records like these are very much in demand and there are plenty of outlets that are willing to run the risk of reporting on.
KURTZ: Right. Well, people have the right to sue but it's very difficult under existing libel law for public figures to successfully sue. Mara, what's the case against "The New York Times?" It won a Pulitzer for its tax reporting. I mean, investigative reporters press sources to provide documents all the time. This didn't come from government and the "Times" never signed any kind of --
LIASSON: Right.
KURTZ: -- confidentiality agreement.
LIASSON: Yeah, it's hard to see what kind of legal jeopardy the "Times" is in. How much legal jeopardy Mary Trump is in is another matter. I certainly don't know. But Donald Trump is litigious and he has sued lots and lots of people and organizations through the course of his career. And I don't really know what this suit gets him, especially if he can't prevail against "The New York Times."
KURTZ: Well, it obviously choked you up. Look, Ben, the media's reaction to this litigation has been to gleefully quote Mary Trump as saying Donald Trump is a blanking loser and to bring on all these legal experts who say Trump was avoiding taxes.
But while the 2018 "Times" story was denounced by President Trump as fake news, here in the suit, he's asking at least 100 million in damages. Isn't he acknowledging that the story itself was true?
DOMENECH: I think that's the risk that you run by getting involved in the litigious response to something like this.
KURTZ: Not to mention depositions.
DOMENECH: Yes, I think that's always something that can result in all manner of things. But, you know, as Mara said, this is an individual who even prior to becoming president was very litigious and would go after people in different ways. This is another example of him doing that.
But I think that we should not forget how differently the "Times" story was treated in terms of the records that were reported on versus the treatment of the Hunter Biden story, which is only now, it seems, getting the kind of credibility treatment from major outlets. You know, it's as if they just had to wait long enough to treat the story seriously and the questions that were raised by it.
Personally, I never was as curious about Donald Trump's tax returns as other people were. I feel like it's one of those things where you open the vault doors and there's not as much there as you might have thought.
KURTZ: Yeah.
DOMENECH: But I do think that this is going to be something that keeps this story in the news. Whether that's something that is wise for him to do or not is up to him.
KURTZ: I just happen to have some examples of past lawsuits by Donald Trump. His campaign sued CNN and "The New York Times" last year over opinion columns. He sued a journalist over 2005 book questioning his net worth. In the 80s, Trump sued "The Chicago Tribune" over the architecture critic panning his plan for a skyscraper there. And Mara, he didn't win any of those kind of --
LIASSON: No, he doesn't have a good track record.
KURTZ: Yeah.
LIASSON: Yeah, he doesn't have a good track record with these lawsuits. And as Ben said, they might boomerang because they keep all these questions about him out in the public.
KURTZ: Ben, I've got about half a minute. You made a point earlier that you think this may become an increasing common feature of politics where politicians sue journalists who god knows are not very popular. But does that disturb you at all? Is that where this should all be fought out while acknowledging obviously that anybody who feels liable can go to court?
DOMENECH: I think we should just look across the pond at the U.K. and see the kind of difficulty that you can get into simply for having someone like Piers Morgan criticize Meghan Markle on air. We don't want to go in that direction here in America. We want to have a very strong First Amendment protection for journalists when they report things out.
And I think that we should really look at making it easier for people to essentially ensure themselves against these lawsuits and prevent them from being something that prevents you from reporting the truth.
Now, of course, that doesn't include material that's truly defamatory or that is just a tissue of lies. But we want to have that kind of strength in an environment in which anybody can be a journalist when they just flip on a switch and connect to the Wi-Fi. It's going to become a situation where a lot more of these things are going to be adjudicated, I think, in the court.
KURTZ: And by the way, even a lousy lawsuit can force you to spend a lot on legal fees. Ben Domenech, Mara Liasson, great to see you this Sunday. Up next, how the press is covering the democratic gridlock over Joe Biden's huge spending bills because not much is happening. And later, the national media fixation on the Gabby Petito case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: The media providing minute by minute updates on the democratic impasse over trillions of dollars in spending against the ticking clock of yet another very exciting debt ceiling showdown.
Joining us now, Mike Emanuel, Fox's chief Washington correspondent. And Mike, with the media providing these minute by minute updates particularly over this $3.5 trillion one-party spending bill, it's a huge figure. But it is like watching paint dry. Nothing ever seems to happen or it's so incremental. Is it hard to explain the details when most people's eyes glaze over?
MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And when you're talking about trillions and trillions of dollars, people look at that and it's like monopoly money, it's so hard to get your arms around that, except for when I go home and talk to my kids and they say, is your generation going to dump this in our laps, dad?
And so, you know, they know that ultimately somebody will have to pay it back, and so that's a concern for some folks. But when you talk about big numbers like this, it is hard to get folks across the country to really understand what all is in there.
KURTZ: Yeah. You have Nancy Pelosi saying, oh, we're going to vote Monday. Then on ABC this morning, she said maybe we won't vote Monday. And "The Washington Post" headline the other day was President Biden's governing agenda is at risk of unraveling on Capitol Hill. So the stakes are enormous.
Biden met with Democratic leaders this week. I bet most people couldn't tell you what's in this big bill or how it ties to the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which still hasn't passed.
EMANUEL: Absolutely right. And there's some thought they have to bring the price tag down to get some of the moderates on board. They are putting pressure on the moderate Democrats, saying, if we don't pass this, Democrats are going to be voted out of office. But a lot of the moderates say, if I spend trillions and trillions of dollars in my district, I'm going to be voted out.
So there's an existential threat for some of these members and tremendous pressure all around this town, basically, because it is Joe Biden's agenda trying to get across the finish line and there's no guarantees after the midterm elections that Democrats will be fully in power.
KURTZ: Yeah, which I think they are quite well aware of. Even if they cut that $3.5 trillion in half, it's still a huge amount of money when you add in the other one trillion. The whole federal budget is $6 trillion.
But a lot of media focus on the debt ceiling. Actually, there could be a government shutdown late this week if Congress can't resolve this. Mitch McConnell says, of course, the debt ceiling must be lifted, but my people aren't going to vote for it, we won't give you one vote. Whose side are the media on in this kind of dance?
EMANUEL: Well, he doesn't seem to care much about his image with a lot of the press. He just knows that there are a lot of Republican voters all across this country that sent Republicans to Capitol Hill basically to get a handle on government spending and the debt. They've spent plenty of money.
And so a lot of those voters are very unhappy with all of the spending at this point. But he says, you know, somebody has got to stand up at some point and basically doesn't seem to worry about his public image.
KURTZ: At the same time, he knows this can't -- I mean, they can shut it down for a few days. It has happened before, couple of weeks, often the blame game. But bottom line is the U.S. government isn't going to default, I don't think.
EMANUEL: No. I think they know they are going to pass it. But basically he wants Democrats holding the bag and then they can go to voters across the country and say, did you really want all this spending and all this additional debt? Look at one party, they're responsible.
KURTZ: All right. They are not making any bones about the fact that it's a political move, but it is a political town. Mike Emanuel, great to see you on the set with me.
EMANUEL: Thank you, Howie.
KURTZ: Next on "Media Buzz," Donald Trump denounces the press over the Arizona audit, which was a disappointment to Republicans as the 2020 election surges back into the news. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): Donald Trump unloaded on the media last night for their reporting of the Arizona audit, commissioned by Republicans which found no hard evidence of substantial fraud and in fact, awarded Joe Biden 99 more votes and Trump 261 fewer votes, but the former president doesn't see it that way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We also got the results of the Arizona audit which --
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: -- which were so disgracefully reported by those people, right back there, and the headlines claiming that Biden won.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: It's so difficult because the Washington Post, the New York Times, and virtually every mainstream media source, CNN forget it, they're so dishonest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now to analyze the coverage in New York, Alexandra Wilkes, a commentator former with America Rising, and Clarence Page, columnist for the Chicago Tribune.
Alex, the Republican president of the Arizona Senate which commissioned the audit by the Cyber Ninjas, always makes me think of the "Teenage Mutant Turtles," accepted the findings saying numbers are numbers and truth is truth.
And here is Trump trashing the fake news which reporting what is the press supposed to do when this audit says yes, Joe Biden won the state by more than 10,000 votes.
ALEXANDRA WILKES, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, sure. So I think that the president has long had a beef with the media, but what the last nine months of him being off social media has really illustrated to me is that social media is not only a very powerful tool for the president to engage in all campaigns to engage with their supporters but all the journalists as well.
So you see with these rallies, the recount, that there isn't as much of an ability for the president to shape it while he's not on the scene platform where the journalists are and they're looking for stories and they're looking at the various reporters who are at these rallies who are covering the tweets, covering the Facebook posts.
It really becomes, you know, there's a dearth of commentary, I think by the mainstream press. That'll be interesting going into the midterm elections - -
KURTZ: Right.
WILKES: -- where we see that, you know, his endorsement might be news worthy, how does that really bear out.
KURTZ: Right. Well gone are the days when those rallies got wall to wall television coverage. Clarence, the report that raised hypothetical problems, signatures might have been suspect, mail ballots might have come from the wrong address, voters might have voted in multiple counties. Maricopa County official by the way rejected all this.
So, the press reported that but Donald Trump still is calling the coverage of this Arizona audit dishonest.
CLARENCE PAGE, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Well, you can cite anecdotes all day long about what looks suspicious around the edges, Howard. You know, I was investigating vote fraud in Chicago in the early 70s and we found marginal offenses. When I say marginal, I mean not offenses that would change the outcome.
Bill Barr when he was attorney general said there hadn't been anything that would have changed the outcome of that election, and now we see in Arizona, Joe Biden has again won, giving him another celebration if he wants to, and at President Trump, when all else fails, blame the media. That of course is the old political slogan and he's relying on it again.
KURTZ: All right. Well what about Chicago in 1960? All right. Let me move on to the book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, which says that Republican Senators Lindsey Graham and Mike Lee, two Trump allies, rejected the election fraud claims by Rudy Giuliani and other Trump lawyers. Back after the election Lindsey Graham calling it third grade stuff.
And here's, Alex, the statement that Trump sent to the media. Lindsey and Mike should be ashamed of themselves for not putting up the fight necessary to win, do the media love it when Trump seems to turn on his own allies?
WILKES: I think that's always the story that the media likes, but what I would say that these books aren't new, you know, going back to Theodore White with "The Making of the President" back in the 60's. You know, you can always have these, you always have these books come after the elections with the anonymous sources told in narrative form.
It's always usually pretty easy to spot whose cooperated with the books because they happen to tell the anecdotes that make them look good, but I think that in terms of the reporting of this , and the president's response to this, it's kind of a wash because it's a little bit of an insider's game I think for most Americans.
KURTZ: That's an interesting point and I would point out Lindsey Graham not denying these particular quotes. Clarence, separately, the Washington Post broke the story based on a lawsuit showing that the Trump campaign after the election wrote a memo, it's the week after the election, debunking some of the wilder claims coming from Sidney Powell, another Trump lawyers about Dominion, the voting machine company who somehow manipulated votes away from Trump, had ties to George Soros and Venezuela but didn't say anything about it.
So, is that major news today? Do people still care? Do journalists -- journalists obviously do care.
PAGE: Journalists care about conflict, and we certainly see it here. What intrigues me about Bob Woodward's new book is what it says about the disbelief on the Trump camp, the Trump side that he had won the election, and how Bob Woodward and Bob Costa paint a scenario there of Rudy Giuliani really being the one who talks Trump into the idea of challenging the election and claiming victory, and pushes it and pushes it again.
Somebody could put that bug in his ear, Bill Barr and among others didn't go along with it --
KURTZ: Right.
PAGE: -- and aren't going along with it now. But we have now the foundation of a campaign for Trump's second election in his mind, and we may just see that happening. I expect that --
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: Well, the reason -- the reason it matters is that Trump is the de facto leader of the Republican Party will be a factor in the midterms and may well run again. Let me move on to this. George Bush hosting a Texas fundraiser for Liz Cheney, of course the daughter of his vice president.
Donald Trump's reaction rhino Republican named only former President George W. Bush and his flunky Karl Rove are endorsing war mongering and very low- polling Liz Cheney. Alex, whose side might the media be on in this particular battle?
WILKES: Well, it is pretty interesting to see the media all of a sudden, you know, find a warm embrace with people that they had previously characterized as war mongers, my report back in the day, they threw terrible insults at a former President Bush, but now, they seem to be or the media seems to be covering him much more favorably than they once did.
I think though that, you know, look, this is going to be a story that plays out across several different platforms over the -- or several different campaigns over the next cycle, is where the president weighs in, you know, how ultimately it does. But ultimately, I don't think it's a surprise that the Bushes are hosting a fundraiser for former Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: Well, obviously, Liz Cheney voted to Trump's impeachment so there's a lot of bad blood there. And of course, Trump campaign against Bush in Iraq.
Clarence, I've got about 20 seconds. I mean, if George W. Bush, son of George H.W. Bush is a Republican in name only, does that suggest that Trump will use that label for anybody who doesn't agree with his vision of where the GOP should be?
PAGE: Well, we saw Donald Trump turned against his own vice president when he saw that Mike Pence was not going to join in with him and the idea of tossing out the votes from the Electoral College that enabled Joe Biden to win.
Only because Mike Pence was following the law, and Donald Trump insisted that he couldn't be bothered with that. That's the real reality here.
KURTZ: All right.
PAGE: Donald Trump decides who is a Republican and who isn't.
KURTZ: Well, ultimately the voters decide. Clarence Page, Alex Wilkes, thanks very much for stopping by this Sunday.
After the break, every hour every outlet you can find breathless updates on the tragic killing of 22-year-old Gabby Petito. But is it really about ratings?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): Gabby Petito, the 22-year-old woman who went missing while on a Wyoming trip with her fiance and then was tragically found dead, has been a TV news obsession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, HOST, CNN: And we have a big development in the case of that missing New York woman, Gabby Petito.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, ANCHOR, MSNBC: The growing search for missing 22-year-old Gabby Petito who disappeared after a cross-country road trip with her fiance.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: The manhunt for Brian Laundrie ramping up after Gabby Petito's death is ruled a homicide.
DON LEMON, HOST, CNN: This case has really riveted the country. Lots of coverage, lots of interest. Right.
UNKNOWN: We've talked a lot about it here on MSNBC, and that is, it's a lot of pretty white women.
JOY REID, HOST, MSNBC: The way the story captivated the nation has many wondering, why not the same media attention when people of color go missing? Well, the answer, actually, has a name. Missing white woman syndrome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now from Dallas, Steve Krakauer, a cable news veteran who publishes the Fourth Watched newsletter.
All right, Steve, make the case, why should cable news and a lot of other outlets be fixated on this one case involving a missing woman who was found murdered as tragic as it is?
STEVE KRAKAUER, EDITOR & HOST, FOURTH WATCH: Yes, I think that on one level, this is cable news sort of being the affect where the cause, it was this trending story, that was happening long before it ever, you know, Gabby Petito ever got mentioned on cable news.
So, you have hundreds of millions of mentions of Gabby Petito on TikTok and other places, there's a lot of interest already, you know, happening on social media and then it kind of translates and then it goes on cable news, it become this national story. Although I have to say, I also question the timing a little bit, because there's lots, this is a tragic story and there are lots of tragic stories. I don't know if all of those tragic stories are national news stories.
So, just around the time that the Biden administration is going through perhaps the toughest time of the last nine months with the massive crisis in Del Rio, with the Haitian migrants that you talked about earlier, with this they admitted to just only in about 10 days ago the failed, you know, mistaken drone strike that killed 10 --
KURTZ: Yes.
KRAKAUER: -- and seven children, right around that time those stories take a back seat to the latest, you know, missing white influence.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: But now are you suggesting that somehow this is the liberal to distract from Joe Biden's political woes or that we need some kind of other thing, because it's depressing to focus on COVID and Afghanistan, and Haitian migrants.
KRAKAUER: You know, I think there's a convenience to it. I think every day, there's a calculus made in a newsroom about what stories are the most important of the day, and it's very easy. I think that if say there were a different president the calculus of where Gabby Petito falls in the rundown would be a lot different I think than when Joe Biden is president.
But I also think, you know, there is this pushback and you heard it as this missing white woman syndrome. I think there's actually some validity to that because you know, you do see these stories certainly bubble up when you've got, you know, they've got the video and of Gabby Petito and her boyfriend on YouTube and you've got the body cam footage and it is often these white stories.
But at the same time, you've got Chris Cuomo at the magic wall last week, you know, breaking down like it looks like he's breaking down Iowa caucus results when he's talking about Gabby Petito's text messages. And then suddenly you get this pushback, and then instead of looking inward, and having some self-reflection and introspection about why are we covering these stories so much, --
KURTZ: Yes.
KRAKAUER: -- its turned the other way and there's a sort of interest shaming of the audience. Well why are you so interested in this instead of the latest --
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: Well, let me -- yes. I mean, there is a circular logic to it when you say, you know, it's hot on TikTok and then it makes the jump to cable news. I mean, then cable news draws more intention, then law enforcement gets more interested and then that in itself drives more coverage. And everyone knows there's a certain demographic that really likes these stories and is all about ratings. Is it not?
KRAKAUER: It's a lot about ratings. This story makes a lot of sense on a show that I love like Dateline, rather than say The Today show or say the NBC Nightly News. I think there's a place for stories like this absolutely, but where? You know, if I was programming the cable news channel this would not be bubbling up as most important national news story that's happening in the world.
KURTZ: Let me --
(CROSSTALK)
KRAKAUER: And to your point, ratings, I think, play a big factor here.
KURTZ: OK. Let me just jump in on the missing white woman business. Because the Washington Post has a story and there been others about of all of the women of color who have gone missing or been murdered and how they don't get national attention leads off with a black mother in three in Georgia missing since March and her family can't get any national attention. This strikes many people as a kind a form of racial pandering.
KRAKAUER: Yes, and I would also say I think that it shifted because it's not just missing white women. It's white women involved in crimes I think is the larger -- is the larger point here, and I do think we've seen a shift in that. You know, there's a reason that George Floyd's trial was such a big, you know, media moment last year, and I think that, you know, with good reason.
You know, that is also a very important, you know, case that was happening. And before --
KURTZ: All right.
KRAKAUER: -- it was the Jodie Arias, and the Casey Anthony's.
KURTZ: Yes.
KRAKAUER: But yes, absolutely. I think that we've seen the -- yes.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: Yes. Going back -- going back to Natalee Holloway in 2005 --
(CROSSTALK)
KRAKAUER: Exactly.
KURTZ: All right, we've got to go but I think there's a real backlash over this and it's a good debate. Good debate, Steve Krakauer.
Still to come, The View gets disrupted by its own breaking news, more bad news for Chris Cuomo and Facebook's self-emotion. The Buzz Beater is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): OK. Time to play beat the clock on the Buzz Beater. Go. It was some very awkward moment at The View when the ladies were about to interview Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC: There seems to be something happening here that I'm not 100 percent aware of. Can someone please surprise me of these situations?
UNKNOWN: I need the two of you to step off for a second.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CO-HOST, ABC: OK.
BEHAR: Ana and Sunny.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: And we're going to bring you back later.
HOSTIN: OK. Yes.
BEHAR: So, shall I introduce the vice president?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
BEHAR: OK, so vice president --
UNKNOWN: No!
BEHAR: No?
UNKNOWN: No!
BEHAR: OK. Shall we dance. Let's do a tap dance. What happened is that Sunny and Ana both apparently tested positive for COVID.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): When Sunny Hostin and Ana Navarro let the set, they had plenty of time to kill taking audience questions before the vice president appeared remotely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: We did everything we could to make sure that you were safe because we value so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Maybe they should have arranged those COVID tests a little earlier.
President Biden was meeting with Boris Johnson. Each leader usually takes a couple of questions. But after the British prime minister called on two British reporters, CBS' Ed O'Keefe tried to ask a question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Let's go. Thank you.
UNKNOWN: Thank you. Let's go. Let's go.
ED O'KEEFE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CBS NEWS: What is your response to the situation on the border?
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Thank you.
UNKNOWN: Let's go. Thank you, guys. Let's go. Thank you. Move.
UNKNOWN: On the Haitian immigrants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): White House reporters were furious at being vested by the Brits, Biden was trying to answer but couldn't be heard over the shouts of his aides ushering out the press pool, just who's in charge here?
Former ABC executive Shelley Ross is accusing Chris Cuomo, then also with ABC, of harassing her, citing a single incident in 2005 where he greeted her in a bar with a hug then included grabbing her buttocks that was witnessed by her husband.
In New York Times op-ed Ross publishes and e-mail apology that Cuomo sent her afterwards saying now that I think of it, I am ashamed, which was the right reaction. And Ross said she doesn't want Cuomo to lose his job at CNN, Cuomo told the Times as Shelley acknowledges our interaction was not sexual in nature. It happened 16 years ago in a public setting. I apologized to her then, and I meant it.
During the Trump years, commentators and correspondents were routinely calling president crazy or sick or psycho. On MSNBC this week Democratic pollster Fernand Amandi talking about Trump's effort to overturn the election said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERNAND AMANDI, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I think that means calling Donald Trump what he is, he's a terrorist. Donald Trump is a terrorist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: And guess what? Zero pushback from the host.
Mark Zuckerberg wrote a secret plan to use Facebook's valuable news feed to promote Facebook. Several executives were shocked the New York Times reports but the CEO is tired of all the criticism and apologies for bias and misinformation, so the news will be used to promote positive stories about the social network. Hey, it is not a coincident (Ph) to do a media blitz defending his company, great, but otherwise it's like a newspaper using its front page to tell you how awesome it is.
When I saw a drawing (Ph) saying your iPhone could tell if you're depressed I think it was some nutty tabloid story. But no, the wall Street Journal says Apple working on technology to diagnose depression or cognitive decline, this raises privacy concerns but who knows, could save you a lot on therapy bills.
Hey, Siri, I'm in a really good mood today. Seriously. That's it for this edition of Media Buzz. I'm Howard Kurtz. We hope you'll also will like our Facebook page where we post my daily columns. And continue the conversation on Twitter at Howard Kurtz.
You might want to check out my podcast Media Buzz Meter. We look at the day's most buzzy stories or you can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google podcast or on your Amazon device. We try to cast a wide net here on this program looking everything from the crime story dujour to what's going on with the litigation over the election, to the border.
We're back here next Sunday, we'll see you then with the latest buzz.
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