Media accusing Trump of racism

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Media accusing Trump of racism

'Go back' tweets targeted freshman congresswomen.

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," July 21, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On the Buzz Meter this Sunday, an unprecedented wave of media outrage as anchors, journalists and reporters accused President Trump of racism for his attacks on four Democratic congresswomen, which he vehemently denies, saying, it's not about color but about hating America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: It's just unfathomable. And if you -- if people don't believe it is racist if he does it, then they don't know what racism is.

JON MEACHAM, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: He has joined Andrew Johnson as the most racist president in American history.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: These were not racist. This is about patriotism. When did love it or leave it become racist?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: When you're in a bar and some drunk person is yelling at somebody else, saying, go back to where you came from, you know, you can address that person, you can walk away, you can just throw your hands up and say, OK, this is some drunk idiot. I mean, this is the freaking president of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not a racist by any means, I would go to the point of saying that what he meant was go back home and fix your own problems.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: I consider Donald Trump a friend, and it pains me for him to take the low road. I was really saddened by what he said, invoking the language of racism and xenophobia, and describing these four women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, yes, the president made an unforced error. Three of the four were born in America. But the idea he's hitting them because they're people or women of color is just absurd. I mean who doesn't Trump hit?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Our journalists clearly taking sides in the war of words against AOC, Ilhan Omar, and two other Democrats. Should straight news journalists been flat-out branding the president a racist as an undisputed fact? And is the president to blame for that rally chant against Omar, send her back, that even drew criticism from the right Trump tried to distance himself from what some of the crowd were shouting.

Plus Joe Biden whips in a friendly MSNBC interview saying he'll challenge Donald Trump to a push-up contest. Really? I am Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."

It started just before we came on the air last Sunday and instantly mushroomed into an all-out warfare with the media flatly calling President Trump a racist, which he strongly denies. He went after the four Democratic freshman congresswomen, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib.

All but Omar were born in the U.S. With this tweet, why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came then come back and show us how it was done.

AOC called at the hallmark language of white supremacists. Trump feels comfortable leading the GOP into outright racism, and each side ratcheted up rhetoric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF America: All I'm saying that if they're not happy here, they can leave. They can leave, and you know what? I'm sure that they will be many people that will miss them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK with --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: But these are people -- quiet, quiet, quiet.

KELLY O'DONNELL, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: -- people thinking your tweets are racist, Mr. President?

TRUMP: Quiet.

O'DONNELL: Are you OK with people thinking your tweets are racist, sir?

TRUMP: Quiet.

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): We're not going to allow him to continue his throwing of the bile of garbage that constantly comes out of his mouth that allows for the media to be distracted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Mollie Hemingway of The Federalist, a fox news contributor, and co-author of the new book, "Justice on Trial - The Kavanaugh Confirmation and the Future of the Supreme Court," Beverly Hallber, president of District Media, and Philippe Reines, former state department official under Hillary Clinton.

Mollie, the media's condemnation of the president's tweets has been deafening, even some conservative commentators are saying his language went too far. Are they right?

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, what would be nice would be to have media actually just cover what was said. They are clearly very upset about this. But this does seem to be a debate that Donald Trump wants to have. He's been highlighting what he views as the un-American nature of some of these women's arguments.

I think what we're seeing is kind of shaping of the 2020 debate. We have Democrats who are worried about their loosening grip on minority voters, trying to focus on allegations of racism. And you have the Republicans trying to portray Democratic politicians as being too sympathetic to terrorists, to supportive of socialism, too extreme in our politics.

And so, this is just a perfect story where you can -- where you can highlight those divisions, but it would be nice to have the media not take over its sides and there's no question they are siding and advancing Democratic arguments.

KURTZ: On that point, I'll come back to you. You're certainly right about the president wanting this debate because he has stoked it all week. Are all -- for all the media denunciations of the president's comments, attacks, against these four women as racist, are they playing into Trump hands and making is the only story that is utterly dominated discourse here in Washington?

PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Well, I don't think you can say on the one hand that they might be playing into his hands, on the other hand that they are playing it up, they don't really believe it. I agree with Mollie.

KURTZ: Nobody is saying they don't really believe it?

REINES: It's the heat getting to me. I'm OK. Thank you.

KURTZ: OK.

REINES: I agree with Mollie that the president sees us as beneficial to his reelection campaign, setting aside whether I agree with that or not or whether even his own people in his own party agree with that.

There's an interesting dynamic that kicks in here every time Donald Trump says something controversial because I remember 2016 where he ran on a lot of things and one of them was I'm going to tell you like it is. You're not going to like it. It's going to be politically incorrect, but I'm gonna to say it.

Yet, in two and half years, I don't remember a single time where we were sitting on this panel or any panel on Fox where someone says, hell yeah, he meant it exactly how you take it. There always seems to be this backing away, this sort of excusing him when he said it. And very clearly, he didn't tell Dick Durbin, the senator of Illinois, white senator (ph), to go home. He didn't tell Beto O'Rourke to go home. He didn't even tell Hillary Clinton to go home. It is not a coincidence that these four women are women of color.

KURTZ: I hear you on that. It also led to Democratic impeachment resolution that had to be tabled by the House as well as a House vote to condemn the tweets.

Beverly, for all of these media explosions over Trump's controversial comments, going back to the campaign, he'll never survive this. It's now over. He's gone too far this time. I don't think I've ever seen this intensity of media outrage.

BEVERLY HALLBERG, PRESIDENT, DISTRICT MEDIA GROUP: And I don't think the story will go anytime soon. It lasted a full week because they also continued to talk about it. They even had a press conference by the four congresswomen.

But one of the players in this sort of group of players, I think, we need to consider is the GOP in general. So, I don't think this necessarily hurts Trump with his base. We'll have to wait and see what happens with swing voters. But what happened where with the GOP members, they had to give an answer or give a comment about these tweets when they thought it was going to be a slower news cycle and silence shows agreements. So, they were in a very hard position knowing that the media were going to be pressing them on this.

KURTZ: Right. Mollie, to underscore your point, president tweeting this morning about the four Democratic congresswomen, I don't believe they're capable of loving our country. But here's a tweet from Ilhan Omar, the congresswoman saying, Trump wants every black/brown person deported and Muslims banned.

So, my question is, and now pivoting away from go back to where you came from to their language and Omar's history to anti-Semitic comments, has the president actually shifted the media spotlight to something that he thinks helps him?

HEMINGWAY: I think so. And I think actually this is what he tried to go. Like in March, he was speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference, and he said, there are people in the Democratic Party who don't love their country. And I thought it was a pretty extreme thing to say. Nobody in the media bit on it. So, he keeps peppering his speeches with things like this --

KURTZ: Until he personalized it.

HEMINGWAY: Until he personalize it and went too far as he always does, then people started talking about it and then he is able to go back to the original point that he wanted to be making.

KURTZ: Here's a New York Times story, Philippe. America stinks is the beginning. At least that's what Donald Trump seems to be saying before becoming president. He talks about how he called the country a laughingstock when he was a private businessman. In his inaugural address, he talked about American carnage.

So, the question is, while some Democrats have clearly used excessive (inaudible). I'm thinking of AOC calling the boarder facilities concentration camps. The media are now saying, hey, Donald Trump, both as president and before, has also complained an awful lot about America.

REINES: I -- hopefully there no Democrats watching right now on live television. I don't agree with that. I think you were speaking rhetorically about criticizing his predecessor, seeing things differently. I don't think that -- he wasn't attacking America in the way that he is accusing others of attacking America. I'm not letting him off the hook, but I do think it's a false equivalency.

KURTZ: My take would be that all politicians criticize at one point. That's how they get elected. That's how they stay in office. The media now are saying that Trump is demonizing dissent by these members of Congress. And again, I don't let them off the hook. I don't like a lot of the anti- Semantic comments that Omar has made. I think sometimes they go too far. But because they disagree with him, he is now saying they hate America.

HALLBERG: Well, I hope that leads to a thorough conversation. Both these congresswomen and the president have said that they wanted debate ideas now. Are we really going to get there? That might help.

What I find as fascinating about this is that the press conference that was held, what you heard the congresswomen talk about was not wanting to take the bait of the present, saying we're not going to delve into this, but they are using this to their own advantage. It is unheard of to have four freshman members of Congress have this type of coverage and that is because their use of Twitter and also playing off the president.

KURTZ: They do have the social media platforms. And by the way, they have no power in the House. They are freshman.

HALLBERG: Zero power.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: -- they have a lot of media power. But I would also say are they entitled to hit back against the president's critics?

HEMINGWAY: They have complete power in the House. They are able -- when Nancy Pelosi tried to actually separate herself from them, just a week ago, with huge assistance of Donald Trump, they are now stuck together at the hip.

This idea though that all is equivalent is not -- I don't know that's gonna go over well with people. If you sat these women down and talked about America's founding and America's role in the world over the last 250 years, they would have a very different idea than a lot of other Americans. And that's the thing that is -- that Donald Trump is trying to highlight, whether you actually believe in the American project, whether they believe in the founding.

REINES: But the idea that all voices are equivalent is also false. The idea that Donald Trump as president of the United States and the bullhorn and bully pulpit that he owns is in any way the equivalent of even the foremost senior members of Congress is false. He could end this. He initiated it, he could end it. These are choices he's making that are problematic.

HEMINGWAY: I agree with that. I actually think that's -- I think that's true and you want to have your president to speak well. It is also true that he has been -- he's been the target of unbelievable rhetoric from people on the left. Everyone on the left, everyone in media calling him --

REINES: That's the job (ph).

HEMINGWAY: -- calling a traitor, which is a crime punishable by death, that's very extreme rhetoric. There's also this issue that for many years - -

REINES: But he's is --

(CROSSTALK)

HEMINGWAY: -- for many years Republicans have their policy differences with Democrats called racist. And I think Republicans are absolutely sick of that being this lazy charge that anytime you disagree about border security or immigration policy or any other issue, economic or otherwise, that it's racist.

(CROSSTALK)

REINES: -- the Congress calls Donald Trump a traitor. There's really not much they can do about it. When Donald Trump calls a member of Congress or any human being a traitor, he's in charge of a multimillion person government. Many of whom react to his comments, maybe overreact to his comments --

KURTZ: I got to jump in. Just to clarify, I was saying that these four freshman, they can't bring a bill to the floor. They don't share any committees, power in that sense in the institution.

All right. So, let's come back now to how the media covered this. Here are some sounds from other networks, these are news anchors talking about the president initial tweets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS EVENING NEWS ANCHOR: Four Democratic congresswomen of color have just spoken publicly as a group for the first time about the racist tweets aimed at them by the president of the United States.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: President Trump has sparked a storm of outrage after a series of racist tweets targeting members of Congress who are women of color.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump today denying that his racist tweets were racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Beverly, should straight news anchors and journalists and reports, not talking here about the opinion people who are going to argue this 24 hours a day, just report, hey, the president sent out a bunch of racist tweets?

HALLBERG: No. What they should do is make sure there's a very clear line between what is news reporting and what is opinion. Obviously, you're saying that line blurred. It's been blurred a long time. There's reason why Donald Trump is even gonna get some traction with these comments because is not just that people disagree with these congresswomen on policies, they also think the news media has been very biased to them. This is an example. You would never see the same type of treatment of President Obama.

KURTZ: The "Washington Post" editor, Martin Baron, said the paper started just calling him racist because the go back trophy says it is deeply rooted in the history of racism in the U.S.

So, if it's so obvious that these are racism, I'm certainly not defending these particular tweets and comments, why don't we just lay it out, provide the context, and let readers and viewers reach their conclusions?

REINES: Well, I think they, to a large extent, do try to do that.

KURTZ: On those clips?

REINES: Well, you know what? If you would pick a random clip from two weeks ago or a month ago or six months ago, they are -- they are hesitating to say that Donald Trump's comments were racist. They are hesitating to say that's something he said --

KURTZ: Not anymore. But not anymore.

REINES: -- is a lie. No, they'll revert to it. I think there are times when things are so obvious that they feel on such strong ground to say it.

KURTZL I got half a minute.

HEMINGWAY: It does a horrible thing for the credibility of the media to assert something like this, particularly whenever bad track record of covering racial issues throughout the U.S., the Covington high school boys being a really good recent example.

But also you have statements from some of these women saying that, you know, just pouring themselves into identity politics that many people view these things as racist, that black people have to be -- are only black people and can't have ideas of their own. Those things aren't called racist.

So, if you're not going to be equivalent about it, it makes it worse. Just say what he said, let people make their own minds up about it, and it will help the credibility of the media.

KURTZ: All right. Let me get a break here. When we come back, another media explosion, sort of a second wave at a Trump rally where people started chanting, send her back, about Ilhan Omar. And later, a top presidential aid responds the White House point of view.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: President Trump was attacking Ilham Omar, a Somali refugee, as one of the four freshmen Democrats he is targeting, at a North Carolina rally when some of the crowd broke into an ugly chant, sparking fierce criticism, pundits, and of course, members of the squad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And obviously and importantly, Omar has a history of launching vicious anti-Semitic screens.

(Crow Chanting)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE/FEMALE: Send her back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's the low point of the Trump presidency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not just a low point but the worst, the most depraved, disgusting and totally odious thing the president's ever done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the people of North Carolina were taking -- I don't think were saying send her back as much there saying these views are repugnant.

OMAR: We have said this president is racist. We have condemned his racist remarks. I believe he is fascist.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I think the president put millions of Americans in danger last night. His rhetoric is endangering lots of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: President took questions from reporters the next day and distanced himself from the chant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I would say that I was not happy with it. I disagree with it. But again, I didn't say that. They did. But I disagree with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Mollie, the president then offered this tweet about the sick partnership involving the media, if we can put up, it's amazing how the fake news media became crazed over the chant, send her back, but it's calm and accepting of the most vile and disgusting statements made by three radical left congresswomen.

Should the president be blaming the media for covering this chant?

HEMINGWAY: He shouldn't blame them for covering it, but certainly the way in which they covered was completely overwrote (ph) and ridiculous. And also the way they would slide, like it was great that we even have a little bit of what he was saying before the chant begins. He was talking about the extreme views of Ilhan Omar, which includes sympathy for terrorists and anti-Semitism. It is not to say that this is the appropriate response to it, but you have to have these things explaining context.

Also though I think the media just pretends to be outraged more than they are. It reminds me of how much they reacted to the lock her up chants, which rather than trying to understand people's frustration with how Hillary Clinton wasn't held accountable for mishandling classified information, they just said it was the worse point of the campaign and it was awful and horrible.

KURTZ: Right.

HEMINGWAY: And it would be better to try and understand what's going on.

KURTZ: Well, I just want to make one quick point, which is this isn't just a bunch of blips (ph). I mean, for example, Pierce Morgan, who has been very supportive of the president who had viewed them recently in Britain, called the chant and Trump's handling a vile, shameful, racist. He blamed Trump.

But let me put up on the screen how some news organizations -- this one is from CNN -- reacted to the president saying, he started speaking quickly in order to move past the chant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn't you ask them to stop saying that?

TRUMP: Well, number one I think I did. I started speaking very quickly.

(CROWD CHANTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: The media counterargument is that the president didn't do anything in real time, though he did attempt to distance himself. And then the next day he was asked about the North Carolina rally goers and he said they were patriots.

REINES: Like you said, this happened a week ago, Sunday. He said it and then it was -- it sounds like the media that night said, oh, my god. He let 13 seconds go by. It was not until the next day when Trump said the clip that we watched, that they then showed the clock, the timer, and said it is a lie. So, it is not that the media was looking to jump on him for time, is that they were calling him out on a blatant lie. He did not try to speed up the speech. He did not try to stop it. He sat there and enjoyed it.

KURTZ: Really, I generally don't blame politicians for what some crazy people in the crowd might say. I do think the president might have discouraged this earlier, given the vile nature of that chant.

HALLBERG: I'll give both of them a credit, 13 seconds is a long time, but Donald Trump also led up to this with recent comments. But when you're in a group of people in this crowd, it can be hard to know what to do when you're taken off guard by what people say. Also if you look at the difference between him and how he handled the lock her up chants completely, bodily language, he didn't chime in. So, I think this is a little bit of a stretch for the media.

KURTZ: All right. And on that note, Beverly Hallberg, Mollie Hemingway, and Philippe Reines, thanks so much for joining us this Sunday. Ahead, sexual assault charges thrown out against Kevin Spacey. Why is that getting so little coverage? But up next, President Trump's harsh attack on "New York Times" columnist, Tom Friedman, and Joe Biden fumbles some pretty obvious questions in a friendly MSNBC interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Tom Friedman, the liberal "New York Times" columnist who once played golf with Barack Obama is a caustic critic of Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FRIEDMAN, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST: We have a president without shame. He is backed by a party without spine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: The president hit back hard after a recent column, which Friedman accused him of racism tweeting that, "Thomas "the Chin" Friedman is a weak and pathetic sort of guy." And in a recent call, "Could not have nicer or more respectful to your favorite president, me. Now, Friedman is really nasty to me in his average I.Q. columns, kissed my A on the call. Phony."

I love the average I.Q. part. Friedman is a three-time Pulitzer Prize winner, and he tweeted right back, "Mr. President, you are right. Unlike you, I'm always respectful. You should try it." He said he merely told Donald Trump in a brief call that, "I disagree with you on many things but you are right not to bomb Iran." If that's what happened, it doesn't sound like A kissing.

Joe Biden had a friendly sit down this week with liberal Morning Joe co- host, Mika Brzezinski, and I've got to say he still seems a bit slow footed, especially when it comes to Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, NBC MORNING JOE HOST: He starts making front of your age, your mental state. He starts going after you in ways that this is -- I mean --

JOE BIDEN (D-DE) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll say, come on, Donald. Come on, man. It's -- how many push ups you want to do here, pal?

BRZEZINSKI: Right.

BIDEN: I mean jokingly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Push-ups, seriously? When Mika asked if he was ready for Kamala Harris in the next debate, Biden tried to duck. And Mika, to her credit, followed up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: You know, I find it difficult to call them debates when you have one minute. And it's so easy to take out of context and -- but look, yes I am --

BRZEZINSKI: Your performance was panned (ph). Did you do something differently?

BIDEN: Well, you know, I didn't expect particular attack and questions starting off. I know you're not racist. I mean -- it did catch me off guard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And invited to contrast his health plan with Kamala Harris' support for Medicare for All, which would abolish private insurance, Biden whiffed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'll let her speaks for herself.

BRZEZINSKI: But you think she needs to clarify a tad bit?

BIDEN: Look -- but I don't want to do. I don't want to be taking on other people .

KURTZ: A lot changed or about drawing contrast and Biden didn't do it even on a sympathetic platform of MSNBC. Come on, man.

Ahead on MEDIA BUZZ, Anthony Scaramucci on what the president needs to do to quiet the media uproar over his tweets. But first, Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley on why the president sees the coverage of this racial furor as blatantly unfair.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: From President Trump's team, I sat down here in Studio One with Hogan Gidley, the Deputy White House Press Secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Hogan Gidley, welcome.

HOGAN GIDLEY, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Thanks so much.

KURTZ: The President has drawn as you found this condemnation from the media for his go back where you came from and fix it and return tweets. Why is that unfair?

GIDLEY: Well, it's unfair because when the media came into my office concerned about it, the President went out to the South Lawn and clarified exactly what he was talking about. And he chronicled some comments made by the squad, they're anti-Semitic, they're anti-American in many cases. And he said look, it's OK if you don't like this country, it's OK for you to voice that opinion. But if you don't like it so much and you really hate it the way you say you do then you can go home. He's done that not just with these four congresswomen, but he has done it with Hollywood elites as well.

KURTZ: We're talking here about out four duly elected members of Congress. But let me ask you about the President's tweet about the press. Amazing how the fake news media became crazed, that's his word, over the chant sending back of the North Carolina rally. But it is totally common accepting that the most violent and disgusting statements made by three radical left Congresswomen.

First, why shouldn't that chant sending her back be a big story? Some conservative commentators denounce this as racist. And the President said he wasn't happy with it. Why shouldn't it be a big story?

GIDLEY: Well, no one is arguing it shouldn't be a big story. But the bigger issue here is that the President is forced to denounce what someone says in an audience of thousands. But these four congresswomen do not have to down announce what someone did in an actual terrorist attack in Washington State. In fact, the only person -- it wasn't throngs of reporters following them through the halls of Congress. It was one person with a recording device. They never hold anyone else's feet to the fire and make them denounce actual acts of terrorism. It's ridiculous.

KURTZ: But on that point, the press isn't calm and accepting the use of the President's words of Ilhan Omar's anti-Semitic comments. That was a big controversy. It isn't common accepting when AOC calls border facilities as concentration camps. Some of those -- that rhetoric has got plenty of coverage.

GIDLEY: It has gotten coverage but it's the ways covered. So if Donald Trump makes a comment, automatically, it is characterized by the mainstream media in the way they want to characterize it. Often times, that's racist. It is never alleged racism or controversial remarks. But when Ilhan Omar makes her comments or AOC calls this country garbage, it's always controversial remarks or some say it's anti-Semitic.

And remember, in TV news, attribution is our salvation. They always attribute the concern about what someone else says to the actual source. In this instance, with the President, they just automatically characterize it with the way they want to. And I will give you one anecdote. I did talk to someone at one of the news networks. And I said, you guys can't keep saying that these comments are racist. That's just not news. That's opinion.

His response to me was everyone else is doing it, too. Now, lemmings follow each other off a cliff to their death and demise.

KURTZ: That's exactly the full context. But here, this whole love it or leave it argument, look, sometimes these members of Congress have gone too far. But Donald Trump has criticized America when he was a businessman. He called America a laughingstock. In his inauguration, he said American carnage. So when they criticize him and the White House administration, why is it hitting America, why isn't it just dissent?

GIDLEY: Listen, Donald Trump loves this country and always has. But like many millions of Americans, we didn't like the way Barack Obama treated this country. We didn't like the direction he took this country in.

KURTZ: You have the right to say so.

GIDLEY: Absolutely. But at its core, this President still loved America. The difference here is, they are saying not only is America evil in many instances, but it's the cause of so much of the world's problems. That is way different.

And I have to say, the ungrateful attitude of these -- of these congresswomen to a country that affords them opportunities where they couldn't get them anywhere else in the world. Think about it. She was a bartender and now a congressman. Omar is a refugee, now a congresswoman. It's incredible that it couldn't happen anywhere else. This is the best place in the history of the world.

KURTZ: That doesn't mean they give up their right to criticize. Let me move on.

GIDLEY: That's what I'm saying. They can do, but there's a fundamental difference in how we view this world. We view it is a great place, they don't.

KURTZ: The President tells us about the incredibly strong economy, which should get more coverage. Doesn't he blot out that coverage when he fights these culture war battles?

GIDLEY: Look, if we're going to talk about blotted-out coverage, it doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump, it has to do with the way the media covers him.

KURTZ: Trump's whole week of coverage was triggered by him.

GIDLEY: Look, we did a lot of things this week they didn't cover. I mean, look, they will cover policy intrigues over policy 9 times out of 10. We all know...

KURTZ: They will recover.

GIDLEY: Right. Because they would rather have that leading their newscast than actual policy. He had an amazing event with the Special Olympics this week. He funded it, they all came to the Oval Office, it was so sweet to see him interact with the athletes and tell them what a great job they've done. Did you see any of that? Absolutely not. Instead, they focused on these ridiculous arguments between some congresswomen who just do not like America versus this President.

KURTZ: Right. But my point, Hogan, is that the President has started this. In fact, he wanted this fight. He knew there would be a media explosion. And at the same time, he also told a reporter he was playing out well for him politically.

GIDLEY: He punches back, we all know that. He is a counterpuncher. But listen, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley and AOC have all said these things for a long time unchecked. So they are attacking this country and its greatness. It is not a hopeful place for them, it is not a shining city on the hill for them. They don't like the country. And that's fine. They can say it all they want to. What the President is doing is responding to that and the fact that the media refuses to cover it.

KURTZ: Why did the President wait 13 seconds before beginning to speak again at the rally where some were chanting, send her back? Do you think sending her back is reprehensible?

GIDLEY: He addressed this in the Oval Office at the time he heard it and pushed right on through. You go back and look at the tape. He was not smiling, he wasn't nodding, he wasn't pointing people, he said they are stoic, and he moved on past it.

KURTZ: Hogan Gidley, who talks as fast as I do, thanks very so much.

GIDLEY: Thank you so much.

KURTZ: I appreciate it. Sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: For the record, AOC said she was opposed to policies that are 10 percent above garbage.

Coming up, Anthony Scaramucci and why he is speaking out about the President targeting these Democratic congresswomen on Twitter.

And later, MSNBC releases old party footage of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, but does it prove everything?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Not all of the President's supporters are backing him on the tweets about the Democratic freshman. Joining us now from Long Island, Anthony Scaramucci, a former advisor who briefly served as White House Communications Director.

And Mooch, you've worked for Donald Trump, you wrote a book about Donald Trump, you generally defended Donald Trump. And yet, you said that these tweets against the four women are racists. And in fact you said, if Trump continues to act like this, OK, maybe we look at him and say, you weren't a racist maybe, but now you're turning into one. Those are pretty strong words.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's a wake-up call, but it's not -- again, it's not just me. And so, people can pretend that it's me. You know Washington better than I do. But there's a ton of people inside the Congress that feel the exact same way that all Republicans. There are a ton of donors that feel the exact same way. Now, maybe there are people that don't feel that way.

But the President has a 45 percent approval rating right now. And maybe it's 50. If you break off 5 percent of that, or 8 percent of that, it's going to be very bad news for the President. Meantime, he has this unbelievably good economy. You know, I like Hogan Gidley a lot. I think he does a great job of defending the President. But in a case like this, this is actually indefensible.

That's why I sort of feel bad for him. They're putting him in a position where he is literally making pretzels like at an Auntie Anne's pretzel store inside a shopping mall. If it's bad for Hogan, it's bad for his reputation, and it's bad for the Presidents reputation.

KURTZ: So, you say some -- you say some Republican members of Congress agree, but with some exceptions many of them may be deflected or even silent about this whole controversy, what explains that?

SCARAMUCCI: Politics. What explains it is that they fear the President, they fear being on the wrong side of him, they fear a possible primary. But this is a right or wrong thing, Howie. It's not -- it's not an opinion. You don't -- you don't do that in American history. You don't tell people to go back from where they came from. And you don't sound like that.

And I've said this before and it's worth saying again. If the racists think you are racist, you should probably change your point of view. He is the President of the United States. We should not be debating whether or not he's a racist. And I'm going to tell you something. You know, people say no way this will happen. But trust me, he keeps going down this path, a Republican will primary him.

Some Republican will step out of the box and say OK, we have to recast the Republican Party for 2024. It would be a quick request to primary him right now, but we're also sending a message to people that we have to reengineer this party. You cannot divide the country as the President of the United States.

So, people can be mad at me, or they can be courageous and tell the President the truth and try to help him out because I still support him. I'd like to see him get reelected. But you can't defend the country in the process of going in that direction.

KURTZ: Well, how much blow-back have you gotten from the pro-Trump side? I imagine the President is furious with you. I don't know if this will save your relationship with him.

SCARAMUCCI: It doesn't matter to me.

KURTZ: It doesn't matter to you?

SCARAMUCCI: Yes.

KURTZ: Why, why?

SCARAMUCCI: Why doesn't it matter to me? Because I am my own guy. You can't have a loyalty test where someone throws an apple on the floor and tell you, hey, you have to tell us it's an orange. You do not want to disvalue personal history or your personal integrity to say something that isn't true, it's ridiculous. OK. These are racist comments, period, full stop. The fact that we even have to debate it means that the President is in trouble on this.

KURTZ: You just said that you like Donald Trump. I get that. And you want to see him reelected. So how do you square that with saying that these are racist comments, he hasn't taken them back?

SCARAMUCCI: I don't -- I don't believe he is a racist. But if you're going to talk in that way -- it is in the prompter, Howie, during that North Carolina rally. You're talking in a divisive way and it elicits -- it's a chant like that, it's sending the wrong message to the United States. You do not want to win the second term of your presidency by dividing the United States. OK. It is called united for a reason.

You have got this unbelievable economy to run on, the squad is ultimately - - to use his words, is a disaster, run on what they are saying, run on what their theology is. You can -- you can beat these people. But asking them to go back to their own country, they did that to my grandmother, they did that to my grandfather. Most people do not like that.

The people that are going to tell the President the truth will look him straight in the face and say hey, maybe your German grandfather got told that when he arrived here. OK. Don't do that from the Oval Office or from the office of the presidency. He is the leader of the Free World.

KURTZ: Since you brought it up -- since you brought it up...

SCARAMUCCI: Let me just finish.

KURTZ: Go ahead.

SCARAMUCCI: People don't like me for saying it. I actually could care less. It doesn't matter to me.

KURTZ: I'm simply going to ask, do you think the passion you bring into this and breaking with a guy that you've work for and generally supported is in part because your grandparents came from Italy and that you come from an immigrant family?

SCARAMUCCI: A hundred percent, that's what I just said to you. You're not going to disvalue your personal story to stay loyal to the President. He throws an apple on the floor. In order to stay loyal to him, you want to call it an orange? I'm just not going to do that. OK.

And by the way, politicians will do that. I get that but I'm a business person, Howie. I'm running $12 billion in capital or $11 billion of capital. We are trading all day. I trade hundreds of millions of dollars on a handshake. I'm not -- I'm not going to disembowel my personal integrity or my personal story to say something that is true isn't true. I'm not going to do that.

By the way, he is -- he is fracturing his coalition. There is a very large group of people that are going to break away from him if he continues on that path. And by the way, these are going to be narrow electoral successes one way or another. You don't need to do that. Run on the economy, run on the progress that you are making in the world.

KURTZ: I've got half a minute. You have said many times including to me that you've advised President Trump to soften his attacks on the press. He has not taken that advice. Why do you think he might listen to you and others who agree with you now?

SCARAMUCCI: I'm not -- I'm not suggesting he is going to take my advice. I wrote an editorial that the press is not the enemy of the people, it's on TheHill.com. He is not going to take my advice. I get that. But the thing is he likes winning.

And so, if enough people speak up, he will change his behavior and that will be better for America. If he continues on this path, trust me, a large group of Republicans will say OK, you know what, I love the country more than I love my 401k, we're not going to put this thing into a racial divide.

I just really believe that, Howie. And you know what, trust me, there's a lot of people on that Hill and even people inside that White House that know what I'm saying is the truth.

KURTZ: Anthony Scaramucci not mincing any words. Thanks very much for joining us on this Sunday, Mooch.

SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here.

KURTZ: Good to see you.

After the break, the media yawns as the case against Kevin Spacey collapses.

An old video shows Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein party together proving what exactly?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Jeffrey Epstein who was denied bail this week in his sex trafficking case made a cameo appearance on MSNBC meant to highlight his past friendship with Donald Trump, before they had a falling out. The network dug up footage from -- back in 1992 in a Mar-A-Lago party that Trump threw featuring NFL cheerleaders and Epstein as one of the guests with narration by Mika Brzezinski.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST: A tape in the NBC archives of a Mar-A-Lago party shows Trump giving Epstein his personal attention.

Exactly what they say is difficult to understand as they discussed the women and their appearances. Trump jousters to one and appears to say to Epstein, look at her back there. She's hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now, Emily Jashinsky, culture editor at The Federalist. Of course, no member in the media men has ever gone to the party, until somebody is hot. This footage is kind of embarrassing with all the cheerleaders, but it's from 1992, more than a decade before Trump says he and Jeffrey Epstein had a falling out. So what does it prove?

EMILY JASHINSKY, THE FEDERALIST: Well, I think there is an important distinction here and that something can be newsworthy but this is not a game changer. This is not a damning footage for Trump. I think it was framed in that Morning Joe segment, as well as it was kind of a damning thing for Trump. But at the same time, this is confirmation of what we know that they had a personal relationship that was either business or social or a combination of both. And then they had a falling out, which reporting also suggested as absolutely true. So it doesn't change anything. I think given the allegations against Epstein, it is perfectly newsworthy.

KURTZ: Why is it newsworthy?

JASHINSKY: I think it's newsworthy anytime -- the severity of allegations against like this. And to see him in this situation where they're commenting on women -- if the President of the United States. And I think it's also newsworthy with Bill Clinton. I think his relationship with Bill Clinton...

KURTZ: Absolutely. And we talked about this. I'm not defending this vile, disgusting, sex trafficker in any way, shape, or form. But in this video, it's clear Epstein is just one of the many guests and he is kind of just standing around.

JASHINSKY: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And that's the thing. It's like you make something -- you can put something in the news without treating it as though it is damning and it's a huge new piece of evidence.

KURTZ: Right.

JASHINSKY: Which I think happened in that segment. I think it happened in other news coverage.

KURTZ: MSNBC was running with this for a couple of days.

JASHINSKY: Right. So I think it could be news worthy without being treated as a game changer because -- I mean, yeah, it is the President of the United States now, and he's talking about women's appearances with someone who is accused of very, very terrible misdeeds with women and some underage women. So I think it is fair to run it. I don't think it's necessarily fair to treat it like a game changer.

KURTZ: Yeah. He has already been to jail for the way he treated underage women.

All right. So Kevin Spacey -- I want to make clear. He faces multiple allegations of sexual misconduct, but there's only one criminal case. And in that case, prosecutors just dropped the charges after the accuser who said he had been groped a few years ago in a Nantucket bar, pleaded the Fifth when asked about whether he deleted evidence on his cell phone.

And you know, except for a headline in some places, it was kind of treated like in other news, a minor item. Why so?

JASHINSKY: You know, as I'm thinking about it, I actually believe that there is an indication of appetite, the public appetite for Me Too coverage has really declined. And I think that sort of explains why the media -- there is such an imbalance when this allegation first made its way into the media. They were all over it.

KURTZ: Right.

JASHINSKY: And now, this case was dropped, there was much less attention paid into it. And that was an interesting case. Actually, the reason it was dropped is pretty interesting. They had these text messages from the accuser to his girlfriend, very interesting stuff. The case was dropped, not as much coverage. And I think really while we're looking at this, the Me Too cycle has died down to the point where this is not as interesting to the press.

KURTZ: Although if Spacey has been found guilty, there would been an explosion of coverage, which makes me question the fairness at least in this particular case.

Emily Jashinsky, thanks so much. Great to see you this Sunday.

Still to come, Norah O'Donnell makes her debut as a CBS anchor but doesn't move the numbers, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Norah O'Donnell is a solid journalist that delivers a no-nonsense newscast in her first week anchoring the CBS Evening News with a nod to Edward R. Murrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS ANCHOR: To Mr. Murrow, we will try to use it well and with integrity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: But O'Donnell's debut ratings dropped slightly. And 24 percent from a year ago under her predecessor Jeff Glor. O'Donnell took the show on the road. And she also conducted a rather friendly interview with Amazon founder Jeff Bezos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: Jeff, do imagine that the Blue Origin will be the first company that returns us to the moon?

JEFF BEZOS, AMAZON CEO: We're going to be I hope an instrumental part of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: But it safely confined to space exploration, avoiding such unpleasant earthly topics as criticism big tech, his cancellation of the New York headquarters, or his divorce. The low-key launch was in a strong contrast to the media build up on the last woman to serve the CBS anchor, Katie Couric.

Now, that may simply reflect how the center of news gravity has moved from the broadcast networks to cable, and how with Lester Holt and David Muir, the big three have moved beyond the era of celebrity anchors. We still have a big combined audience however.

And that is it for us for this addition of "Media Buzz." I'm Howard Kurtz. Hey, check out my Podcast, "Media Buzz Meter." We kick around the day's five hottest stories, sports, culture, politics, entertainment, you name it.

You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, or Google Play, or FoxNewsPodcast.com. I hope you also like our Facebook page. We post my daily columns there and original videos just for the web. And continue the conversation on Twitter, we're @HowardKurtz, I think so, you know that. We're back here next Sunday at 11 Eastern with the latest Buzz.

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