Martin O'Malley: The words leaders use matter
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}This is a rush transcript from "The Story," January 16, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Good evening, everybody. Breaking tonight, the head of Homeland Security with a warning to local elected officials in sanctuary cities that the federal government is looking into the possibility of arresting you.
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{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, D-CALIF.: ICE agency Acting Director Homan, said he asked the Justice Department to "look into criminal charges for elected officials with sanctuary policies as they are harboring illegal aliens according to 8 USC 1324." This was specifically about California elected officials after the enactment of the California Values Act. My question is whether DHS is currently working with the Justice Department to bring Section 8 USC 1324 charges or any criminal charges against state or local officials.
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, U.S. SECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: I believe the request was made, the Department of Justice is reviewing what avenues might be available.
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{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: So, the answer to that is: yes, they're looking into it. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and this is the story. Also, tonight some reporters at the White House incredulous as the White House doctor declared that the president is in excellent mental and physical health. Watch this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell me how a who eats McDonald's, by chance, and all those diet cokes and never exercises is in as good a shape as you say he's in.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}DR. RONNY JACKSON: It's called genetics. I don't know.
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MACCALLUM: Everyone wants to get on that plan. The doctor said that he rarely sees the president in what he would term as stressed out conditions and that he has the ability to wake up every day and sort of reset when he's faced with the pressures of the office. More to come on that fascinating afternoon news conference today. The president, no doubt, is going to need all of his faculties as the pressure is now mounting this week to shut down the government -- something Democrats used to think was a pretty awful idea.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF., HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: I call them legislative arsonists. They're there to burn down what we should be building up.
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, D-N.Y.: It's really a tantrum. It's a Tea Party tantrum. You either give me my way or we're going to shut down the government.
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MACCALLUM: But now, they are reportedly considering that possibility. And just moments ago, the White House responded to Democrats saying we dare you. Go ahead and try it! Chief National Correspondent Ed Henry at the White House with this huge backstory tonight. Good evening, Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, great to see you. A senior official here just told me a few moments ago that they're all but daring Democrats to shut down the government over DACA. As I get some explosive new details about last Thursday's meeting here on immigration that suggests the White House is planning to take a very hard line in these negotiations. Let's first talk about that hearing today you've mentioned that was supposed to be contentious because it was going to be all about the president's plan to build a wall. Instead, it got fiery about what he said or didn't say behind closed doors.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen held firm in saying, last Thursday she did not hear the president utter the word "s-hole", leading Cory Booker to charge the what he called here silence and amnesia, made her complicit in the president's comments. Nielsen, clearly trying to pivot and change the narrative and maybe send a signal to the president's political base, saying that he's taking action to crack down on illegal immigration. The secretary announcing, as you noted, the administration is talking to federal prosecutors now about criminal charges against officials in sanctuary cities all around the country if they refuse to follow through on federal orders to deport criminals.
Also new today, the Department of Justice revealed it's going to try and go directly to Supreme Court to fast-track its appeal of a federal judge's ruling in San Francisco that new DACA applications can start. Meanwhile, Republican Lindsey Graham today, charged all that dramatic turn from one week ago today when the president gathered leaders from both parties in the cabinet room and said he wanted a deal where he took care of the DACA kids, "with love" while also tightening border security. Graham charged that last Thursday morning around 10:00 a.m., he and Democrat Dick Durbin called over the president to re-demand on a bipartisan deal they had. But by the time they made it to the oval office around noon last Thursday, someone on the White House staff like Senior Advisor Steven Miller, a hardliner on immigration, had convinced the president to turn against the deal. Here's Graham.
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{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Something happened between 10:00 to 12:00, and I like Secretary Nielsen; she's a nice person. And we'll get to the bottom of this, but here's what's going to matter. How does it end? How does it end? Does it end with a government shutting down? We cannot do this with people in charge at the White House who have an irrational view on how to fix immigration.
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HENRY: Well, a Senior administration official just fired back to me moments ago that that is not how this played out. This official said Graham and Durbin begged for an oval office meeting to present their own deal that went around a framework that House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy was already working on. This official declaring of Graham, "He tried to sabotage the framework. Nobody knew what was in the damn Graham plan. The president was frustrated and hit him with questions, and Lindsey had no explicative answers. And the president shut him down." That from a senior official.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}So, will the government shut down with some Democrats insisting they're not going to support a budget deal unless there's a clean DACA bill in there. This senior administration official told me "we can call that bluff all day long". They are basically digging in here saying they will give a little bit on DACA, but they have to have the wall. They have to have an end to chain migration and also an end to that visa lottery program. So, they are digging in here tonight at the White House. We'll see how that plays out, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Breaking news. Ed, thank you very much. Here now with more, Martin O'Malley, Former Maryland Governor and 2016 Democratic Presidential Candidate joins us tonight. Good to see you tonight, governor, welcome. Thanks for being here.
MARTIN O'MALLEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND: Thanks, Martha. Thanks for having me.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: What's your reaction to that? I mean, why can't they find some agreement ground here?
O'MALLEY: Well, I hope they will. I think, you know, I don't often say this, but I agree with Lindsey Graham. I think that, probably, the most unreasonable people in the White House pulled President Trump back from what members of Congress seem to think is a reasonable way to move forward, to grant -- you know, to give citizenship to the DACA kids, and also to give the president what he's asking for a wall between us and Mexico. I don't think that's a particularly good use of money but that's what the president wants and that's what compromise is about. So, I hope they do reach a deal.
MACCALLUM: But Democrats are now saying that they're looking for a clean bill, a clean funding bill on Friday with DACA included. But the president has said from the beginning, and the president has been very outspoken on how he feels about the DACA program. He has said, since he was elected he said things that were a little bit stronger than this during the election, but he's -- you know, we want to deal with this with love, we want to keep, you know, the kids who are good and who are prospering here in the United States. We want to keep them here. But we want a tradeoff; we want border security which Democrats have said for a very long time they were in favor of stiffening the security at the southern border. So now, they're saying they're not willing to do that part.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}O'MALLEY: Well, some of them are, and yet we also know that Senator Durbin and Republican Senator Graham apparently had what they thought was a deal that would allow the president to get part of what he wanted and also give, you know, give protections to the DACA kids. So, hopefully, they'll find a way to work this out.
MACCALLUM: You watch -- I'm sorry to interrupt. You watched that Homeland Security head testifying today. She got hit with so many questions about the phrase that the president used in there that it makes you wonder whether or not the priority is really helping these deferred action children -- many of whom are now, you know, adults and young adults. Is that really the priority for Democrats? Do they want to get a DACA deal at the end of this?
O'MALLEY: Well, I think they absolutely do.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: And do they want to work with the president on that?
O'MALLEY: Well, I think Democrats they'd work with -- I think Democrats will work with, will work with the president and will work with one another and will work across partisan lines to get this done. Unfortunately, look, I was a mayor and I was a governor and what you have to understand is that leadership matters and the words that leaders use also matter. When do you a blanket statement that a whole group of people from a continent or people from s-hole countries, that tends to erode the trust necessary for compromise?
MACCALLUM: But that -- but do you agree with me that statement, you know, you can you think it's egregious, you can think it's awful, horrible, whatever -- everybody has their opinion on that. But shouldn't derail the process? Should it be an excuse to hang everything up?
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}O'MALLEY: No, I don't think it should be. Look, I have come to expect very, very little from President Trump by way of manners, by way of kuth, by way of treating people with dignity and respect. That's a given. He's not going to change. He's in perfect health supposedly, which means he's only going to get worse. So, that's what we're dealing with right now, and we need to notwithstanding how abusive the president can be and how coarse and what a bad example he is for our kids. We need to find a way to serve the national interests and realize that real people's families hang in the balance here.
MACCALLUM: So, here's the problem. Here's the problem, governor. You know, I understand that your sensibilities are offended by things that the president said. That, of course, that's up to you. That's a personal decision. But if you're, you know, the parents of Kate Steinle and you're listening to Democrats say that having supported border security all these years and a stronger fence and a stronger border that now you are not willing to do that, and you'd like to see Republicans have to shut down the government over that issue. Can you imagine how they feel, how their sensibilities are affected by that?
O'MALLEY: Oh, yes, absolutely. Look, I have set with families. It's not as if you have a family of all DACA kids or a family. I mean, a lot of families have children who were born in our country who are Americans and they also have kids that are covered by DACA. I mean, this is affecting very real people. I spoke with a little girl, and she was in 8th grade and every day she goes to school thinking when she comes home her family is going to have the doors kicked in and they're going to be gone and she'll be here alone. So, these are real people.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: So, let's go on another issue here, because chain migration -- of course, they're real people. Chain migration is a big issue here that the White House would like to see. They also want to end the visa lottery system -- a recipient of, which plowed down a whole group of people and killed them on the Westside Highway, not far from where I am right now. Are you on board with that? Would you encourage your fellow Democrats to say, you know what, those are two areas that we should negotiate with the White House and Republicans on?
O'MALLEY: Well, I think both of those areas were things contemplated by the proposal that Senators Durbin and Lindsey Graham were on the phone with the president about. Look, there's always compromises. I think we can be true to our principles and at the same time compromise in order to advance them. So, I hope that's what we're able to do. And, you know, if you want to talk about sanctuary cities, I saw some of the piece rolling into this.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}O'MALLEY: Look, you can cite the example of that particular person but the truth of the matter is it's not new American immigrants who are driving violent crime in America, it's native-born Americans.
MACCALLUM: Three out of four of the terrorists who have been arrested -- three out of four of the terrorist who've been arrested in this country, some 500 of them are all from somewhere else. They're all foreigners who came to this country through the immigration program. Three out of four of them.
O'MALLEY: Well, I don't doubt that. But what I do take -- but what I will contest is the notion that somehow mayors are creating sanctuaries for violent criminals. Look, mayors don't get elected to make their cities more violent.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: They have to uphold the law, governor, do they not? Are they not subject to the law in their city?
O'MALLEY: Excuse me, come again?
MACCALLUM: They have to uphold the laws that with regard to immigration. They're not allowed to subvert the law.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}O'MALLEY: That's not their job.
MACCALLUM: What do you mean?
O'MALLEY: Look, Martha, every -- there's a reason why every police commissioner, virtually every police commissioner of the big city in America says that by deputizing local law enforcement and trying to turn them into the deportation dragnet, you're actually hurting the cause of public safety, you're eroding public trust in policing, and you're not serving the interest of reducing violent crimes.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: Well, the statute on the book says that if you don't uphold that law, and if you turn a blind eye to it, you are indeed subject to prosecution yourself. So, that's what they're pursuing.
O'MALLEY: Actually, in our state, our attorney general told us that without warrants, that we are violating the constitution of our own state, if we simply turn people over because of an e-mail from ICE. And so, look, all public safety depends on trust between police and the public. And trying to turn our local police into a dragnet, if that's what Donald Trump wants, go let him go hire more people to create a big federal dragnet out there. But you know what, not even his people believe that that's something that's good for our country. Look, I hope we're able to recover our ability to talk with each other and I hope that we find protections for the DACA kids.
MACCALLUM: It looks like they were talking to each other pretty well the other day.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}O'MALLEY: And look, walls can be dismantled but citizenship is something that's lasting and real, and I have no doubt that the next generation of Americans is not going to be xenophobic, you know, the immigrant.
MACCALLUM: Governor, thank you very much. It's good to have you with us.
O'MALLEY: Thank you. Great being with you.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}MACCALLUM: You too.
O'MALLEY: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, let's talk about it some more. Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar and a Fox News Contributor; and Emily Tisch Sussman, she's a Democratic Strategist and Campaign Director for the Center for American Progress Action Fund. So, you heard Ed's set up and you heard the interview. Something happened, Marc, you know, between the group that was congenial at the table on Tuesday.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}It seems to me that then everybody went back to their corners and they heard, you know, they got an earful from their bases and they say, don't you give in on that, don't you give up on that. And you know, when you get back in there, you better hold your ground and you better fight this thing. So now, we're in a situation where it looks like we're going to have to do another C.R. to get through the funding bill the end of this week and getting nowhere on immigration which looked a little bit promising on Tuesday, at least those in the center.
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE SCHOLAR: It sure did. I think -- look, I think you hit the nail on the head when you're talking to Governor O'Malley that the Democrats don't want the deal. They don't want a solution. They want the issue. Because the president of the United States sat there with them and he said not only did he say he wanted to legalize the DREAMERS -- the 800,000 or so of the dreamers. He wanted to go as far as comprehensive immigration reform that would legalize all 11 million illegal immigrants in this country. That is an -- and he said, I'll take the heat for both Democrats and Republicans if we can cut a deal. He wants a wall next change for that; he wants some changes in immigration, but he's willing to go and legalize all 11 million people. That is an extraordinary offer for the Democrats to have.
MACCALLUM: But, Marc, the suggestion tonight in Ed's piece is that you know, he said I'll take the heat. My whole life has been heat. Is that he got heat from inside the White House from people like Steven Miller --
THIESSEN: I don't think that's --
MACCALLUM: You don't think that's true?
THIESSEN: I don't think that's true. I think what happened was that Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin negotiated something. They didn't include everybody around that table. They didn't include all the voices. Goodlatte wasn't there. McCarthy wasn't involved in it. Cotton wasn't involved in it. And they brought this deal to the president that really wasn't a deal, and it really wasn't what the president wanted or indicated that he was willing to do. And so, they got shut down. But the reality is, Martha, is that look, George W. Bush couldn't pass immigration, comprehensive immigration reform.
Barack Obama couldn't pass comprehensive immigration reform. Just like only Nixon can go to China, only Donald Trump can actually sign comprehensive immigration reform into law. And the Democrats have to decide: do you want this issue for 2018 or do you want to help these people? Because the way they're handling this, by leaking some meetings, by attacking the president, they're exposing what's said in a private negotiation. If they are acting like people who don't care about illegal immigrants, they care about getting the issue.
MACCALLUM: All right. So, you care about illegal immigrants and you care about the DACA kids, Emily, there is a way forward. Go ahead.
EMILY TISCH SUSSMAN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS ACTION FUND: Yes. I mean, we seem to be living in a different world in interpreting the events of last week, entirely differently here. What was brought to the president was a bipartisan deal? He said bring me a bipartisan deal that includes a number of pieces in it, including protections for DACA kids and it was. It was brought to him. And then, apparently, someone in the White House got to him, look, it's not like Lindsey Graham the Republican who went into that meeting, who's been leading on these talks, for at least four months if not years. It's not like he's not an ally of the president. He is. He went in there and said I have a bipartisan deal on the table. Apparently, the king of deals does not understand what a bipartisan deal looks like, the fact that both sides gives a little, and both sides did give a little.
MACCALLUM: Certainly, and he's giving a lot. Agreeing to protections for all the DACA kids in return for border security, chain migration, and visa lottery.
SUSSMAN: Apparently, all of those pieces are in it.
MACCALLUM: I'm sorry, I've got to leave it there. I'm way over time.
THIESSEN: No, they're not.
SUSSMAN: Everything's in it.
THIESSEN: No, they're not. 1.6 million for the wall.
MACCALLUM: Emily and Marc, I got to jump in. Thank you both.
THIESSEN: Thanks.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up next tonight, another record day on Wall Street as the Dow did hit another major milestone. It backed up a little bit at the end of the day. But can that streak survive if we go through a government shutdown at the end of this week? Charles Payne here on that tonight. Plus, has the #MeToo Movement gone too far? Comedian Aziz Ansari is the latest star accused of misconduct after what the latest describes as a bad date. Ben Shapiro, speaking out on this tonight here live.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question is: is this really sexual assault? I can tell you it's not a case I'd bring to trial.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The stock market is way up again today and we're setting a record literally all the time, and I'm telling you we have a long way to go. And had the other side gotten in, the market would have gone down 50 percent from where it was, 50 percent from where it was. Remember that.
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MACCALLUM: President Trump earlier today, touting another good day on Wall Street and Main Street. The Dow up a thousand points in seven sessions. 25 percent since the election. It closed off its highs today. A bit on concern over a potential government shutdown. So, can this go on? Charles Payne, Host of "Making Money With Charles Payne" on the Fox Business Network, joins me now. So, what -- let's play devil's advocate here. If it shut down, what generally happens to the economy?
CHARLES PAYNE, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK HOST: It hasn't been hurt in the past. There've been 18 government shut downs in over 13 years, and only one year was GDP lower. So, you know, it's pretty interesting because it's a heck of a game of chick on a play. Remember when it shut down under President Obama, the market held up pretty well. And America learned we had hundreds of thousands of so-called "nonessential workers".
So, it's a dangerous gamble on the part of, particularly, I think, in this case, Democrats to force this. But I will say, though, Martha, we have entered into a period of optimism in this country that we haven't seen in a very, very long time. And I'll give you one example, potential home buyer traffic has picked up to a level not seen since 1999. 1990 -- I mean, that's the ultimate poll. People are excited out there. There's a bubbling amount of optimism. And you don't -- you hope Washington D.C. doesn't snuff that out.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Well, we know that there was gloom and doom predictions from a lot of people who observed the tax cut. Here's some of them.
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JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: This is the wrong tax cut at the wrong time directed at the wrong people.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: With this legislation, we are ushering in a bleak future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't make things better for the average American.
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MACCALLUM: You got 81 companies, I think, that have given bonuses or increased wages for their lower waged employees, primarily, right?
PAYNE: You've had a lot of companies give $15.00 minimum wage. Over two million American employees are getting bonuses from $1.00 to $2,000. You have companies that are funding their pensions. Today, General Motors feels so confident about their economy, they gave guidance for 2018 and 2019. Both were what Wall Street is expecting. We've got a certain amount of optimism here. Chrysler bringing back 2500 jobs from Mexico to build heavy-duty trucks in Michigan.
MACCALLUM: So, what do you say -- I have to go, but, you know, people say, oh, it's just President Obama laid the foundation for this, but I know the Wall Street Journal did a survey to 65 economists and business leaders who said, actually, we actually attribute these gains to President Trump.
PAYNE: Economists know better, but in the American public it may be swayed by the mainstream media. But I look at the data and this optimism really took off in the last three months specifically. We really feel much more optimistic, specifically in the last three months and that's all President Trump.
MACCALLUM: Interesting. Very. Charles, thank you.
PAYNE: You got it. Thanks. So, still ahead tonight, the result of President Trump's physical exam are in, and the media went wild with questions for his physician. It was about an hour of questioning. Can you imagine if your doctor had to do this and stand up there? Questions on everything from dementia to dentures. We're going to bring you that. Also, tonight, the pendulum swinging the other way a bit on the #MeToo Movement. Tonight, as Comedian Aziz Ansari essentially goes on a bad date and gets branded a sexual predator. Ben Shapiro and Mollie Hemingway with some very strong opinions on the future of this movement and the potentially dangerous culture that had has created next.
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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, "HLN" HOST: You had an unpleasant date and you did not leave. That is on you. And all the gains that have been achieved on your behalf and mine are now being compromised because allegations that you threw out there. And I'm going to call them reckless and hollow.
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MACCALLUM: A new wave emerging in the #MeToo Movement as the accused say we deserve some me too time as well when it comes to due process. We, at "The Story," have long said that there are two sides to many of these stories and that idea is now gaining some traction. Comedian Aziz Ansari accused anonymously in a new online article of sexual assault by a woman who says although she stayed at his apartment for what she calls consensual encounter, she later decided that it was something more sinister. Now, the woman who calls herself Grace, that is not her real name, is catching some heat.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you are not interested in having a relationship or you don't want to do -- that you don't want have a make-out session, then say goodnight after dinner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The feminists' answer to the broken culture, if not to say to women, you're all victims, you're all victims of sexual assault.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
BANFIELD: This was not a rape, nor was it a sexual assault. By your description, your sexual encounter was unpleasant.
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MACCALLUM: This is very different. Trace Gallagher, live in our west coast newsroom with the latest fallout tonight. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Much of the media world seems to agree the story told by the woman who calls herself, Grace, about her date with comedian Aziz Ansari, certainly, does not rise to the level of Harvey Weinstein-type misconduct. An op-ed by the Washington Post says the Aziz Ansari tale isn't about a powerful person trying to humiliate and subjugate someone who wants nothing more than to chase their dreams. Instead, quoting, it's about a date that went badly. One that did not live up to the expectations of the woman involved. Caitlin Flanagan of the Atlantic went further calling the woman's story, quote, 3,000 words of revenge porn. Intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari. But critics wondered if the woman is guilty of trying to hurt Ansari or simply guilty of bad timing. In other words, would she have been as roundly criticized at the height of the Me Too Movement?
For example, three months ago when the Huffington Post seemed to cast aspersions on all men saying this about Me Too, quoting, the social media campaign is, of course, intended as a wake-up call for men. If every woman you know has been harassed or assaulted, then every man you know has likely made a woman feel unsafe. And it should be noted that not everyone is giving Ansari a pass. An L.A. Time opinion contributor tweeted, quote, I was finally able to read the account of the date with Aziz Ansari from the described events he appears to have no understanding whatsoever of sexual consent nor do his defenders, it seems. That said, the Me Too narrative is now consistently being challenged. Actress Catherine Deneuve denounced the movement because she believes people who did not deserve to be condemned are facing the same consequences as sex offenders. And former secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, offered this, watch.
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UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's not turn women into snowflakes. Let's not infantilize women.
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GALLAGHER: Analysis say it appears the temperature of the Me Too Movement has come down a notch, instead of the focus being directed solely at the alleged bad behavior of men. The accusations themselves are now getting a second look. Martha?
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you. Ben Shapiro, editor-in-chief of the Daily Wire, and Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist and a Fox News contributor. So, I guess the question is have we reached a tipping point in this discussion where due process enters the discussion and the assumption that every woman must be believed, which is what everyone was admonish to adhere to in the early stages of this, Mollie, seem to be questioned at this point.
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, It's about time if we have reach a tipping point because there's nothing different about this woman story than many of these other stories that we've heard from the Me Too Movement. You just mentioned the standard that all women must be believed. There's this other standard where the only thing that you have to worry about is whether a woman feels uncomfortable. And these were the judgments that we were using to determine whether we should take part in the Me Too panic. It was a panic. And it was this attempt to like come up with some kind of sexual morality after we have thrown off all objective sexual morality and it's clearly not going so well. I mean, these are not good ways to govern our behavior even if it's true that men and women should think about forming relationships before they have sex.
MACCALLUM: That's a novel idea. Ben, you wrote about this quite a bit, and you talked about her assertion that he should have picked up on her nonverbal cues. I mean, perhaps the strongest nonverbal cue is grabbing your jacket and walking out the door which women have been doing for hundreds of years. She didn't make that choice here.
BEN SHAPIRO, DAILY WIRE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Yeah. I mean, there was nonverbal cues that were given including getting completely naked in his apartment and performing sex acts multiple times on him. If I were Aziz Ansari I would be thinking that's a pretty solid nonverbal cue that you might be into things. I mean, I had a hard time believing that she really expects Aziz Ansari than anyone from Me Too expects men to be mind-readers. This is the problem. It's one thing to say that we should believe women about objective verifiable facts, or even just objective views of what happened. You know, my hand went here, and then my head went here, you know, that kind of stuff. But when you're talking about we have to believe all women's subjective perceptions of events that are often very messy, that are very confusing, that are very chaotic, and in which the feelings conflict in one person. Forget about both people. It conflicts for a woman. I mean, this woman was enthusiastic at the beginning of the date, by the next morning she was talking about how terrible it was.
Is it the job for men to now decide when women are capable of consent? I thought the entire purpose of the feminist movement was to say that women are supposed to be mistresses of own consent. That it's not up to men to say, listen, I don't think it's possible for you to get consent right now. I don't think that sex is in your best interest, and I don't think that we ought to be doing this. That would be man explaining to a woman presumably. So, I guess, men are caught between the rock and hard place of -- if we say no and the woman actually is giving nonverbal cues that say yes then we're man-splaining. But if she's giving nonverbal cues that we think say yes, but she thinks says no, then, I guess, we're guilty of what? Sexual assault or sexual abuse?
MACCALLUM: I hear you. I don't want to let you guys go without playing this thought. This is a totally different story. This is about the U.S. Olympic team and other women who were trained by Larry Nassar, who was a trainer. He has now been convicted on seven counts of sexual assault. And now the victims are telling their side of the story. Watch this.
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UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nightmares of you coming into my room to go away. I want to able to go out in public without seeing someone that looks like you and get so afraid that I have to suddenly leave. I remember laying there frozen stiff on the table utterly mortified. Confused and scared.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Little girls don't stay little forever. They grow into strong women that return to destroy your world.
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MACCALLUM: A number of very well-known gymnasts, and all of these young women who you see here, who were abused by the person who was supposed to be their trainer, the person who was looking out for them. He gave them what he called the treatment, the special treatment, and they were terrified as can you tell. McKayla Maroney, the famous U.S. team gymnast settled with the U.S. Gymnastics Association, and as part of that settlement, she's not allowed to speak out at this or she will be fined $100,000 in doing so. Ben, your thoughts and then we go to Mollie.
SHAPIRO: I mean, I'll put up some money right now and we should start a fund to make sure that she can speak out however often she wants on this particular topic. I mean, if Me Too is to stand for anything it's to stand for the idea that the entire culture, men, women, everybody, look at instances of actual sexual assault and not only condemn them but want to make women free to talk about them more openly.
MACCALLUM: Mollie?
HEMINGWAY: This man is beneath contempt, and it is just disgusting to hear what he put these young women through, and how many of these young girls went through this. It's just appalling that there aren't more people that were aware of what was going on until this year. Having said that, one of the few things that victims can get sometimes are settlements where they get some financial compensation for the horrors that they have gone through. And it's very noble to question nondisclosure agreements for how they silence victims, but also we have to be careful that we don't cake away one of the few things that sometimes victims can get out of a very horrible situation. And if you attack nondisclosure disagreements it can actually make it hard for women to get justice in the future, too. It's a difficult situation.
MACCALLUM: Victim of child abuse ought to be able to speak her mind. And I think Chrissy Teigen and others, and Ben Shapiro has volunteered to pay that $100,000 fine so that she can speak out. Thank you very much to both of you. Great to see you both tonight.
HEMINGWAY: Thanks.
SHAPIRO: Thanks so much.
MACCALLUM: So, President Trump's health assessment left some reporters God smacked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: If there's anything you're keeping from us for privacy reasons.
JACKSON: I can promise there's absolutely nothing that I am withholding from this. All clinical data indicates that the president is currently very healthy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: The whole thing is fascinating. We're going to show a big chunk of it. And then, there's this, growing fears about the North Korea threat. How the U.S. is responding and why some very big changes and new weapons could be added to our arsenal. General Jack Keane on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Fox News has learned of a secret meeting between national security advisor H.R. McMaster and counterparts from South Korea and Japan to discuss the North Korea threat. This as the Wall Street Journal reports that the Pentagon is planning to develop two new sea based nuclear weapons for our arsenal that would respond to Russia and China, primarily, growing military capabilities. General Jack Keane is chairman of the institute for the study of war and Fox News senior strategic analyst. General, good to see you tonight.
JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS SENIOR STRATEGIC ANALYST: Good to see you.
MACCALLUM: So, two new nuclear weapons, potentially. What would they do and why are they controversial?
KEANE: Well, they're both sea based. One is a lower yield version of the trident missile that we have on our nuclear subs right now, and that would offer us the opportunity to use that as a weapon and deterrence, and I'll explain that why. And the other one is also -- it's something we had in our kit bag once before but we got rid of it a number of years ago, it's a sea based cruise missile that has a nuclear tip on it. What's happening is our adversaries are going back and buying these, sort of, tactical lower yield nuclear weapons and adding them to their arsenal. They're theory is that they're going to use those capabilities to end the conflict to their favor. That's a conventional conflict that may not be going well and then they would use that and terminate the war. And they also believe that given we don't have that capability, the alternative for us is to use a major strategic bomb, which would be disproportionate in terms of what the casualty outcome would be. And they think they can hold us in check. So that's why we're developing the capability.
MACCALLUM: Very interesting. I mean, it used to be that you had mutually assured destruction and the weapons were so big and so powerful that the idea was that neither side would use them because they would be so devastating. So now you're talking about another layer of competition where you have to have these lower yield, as you point out, weapons that would be used in a smaller conflict to end it, as you say, so that neither side will use them?
KEANE: Yes. Now, during the cold war, we had tactical nuclear weapons that actually fired as part of artillery, and Persians, as an example. The reality is that we got rid of all of that. But, we had those weapons and our adversaries had those weapons. And what we believe is that if our adversaries have low to high nuclear weapons we should have it as well because it is deterrent. For 40 plus years that deterrent worked. The critics of this believe that if our adversaries have lower yield weapons and we have lower yield weapons, then we're more prone to use them. But the evidence does not support that after 45 years of the cold war and no nuclear exchange ever. And the other thing, we've got to remember, it's important for our audience, those nuclear weapons that we had all during the cold war didn't just prevent nuclear war, it prevented the most likely outcome which was a war in Europe between Russians and NATO, or the Soviet Union and NATA, and that prevented a conventional war. MACCALLUM: There's no doubt that Russia and China are building up and we are in different environment.
(CROSSTALK)
KEANE: We used to have an advantage for decades now and that is rapidly closing on us. And that is why this defense budget and rebuilding the military is so critical.
MACCALLUM: General Keene, thank you. Always good to see you, sir.
KEANE: Good talking to you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: You too. So coming up next, a wild day at the White House as President Trump's doctor fielded a myriad of questions about everything about his physical condition for over an hour. But will it silence questions from some who accuse him of being unstable? White House senior strategic communication advisor, Mercedes Schlapp, joins me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: There have been reports that the president has forgotten names that he is repeating himself. Are you ruling out things like early onset Alzheimer's? Are you looking at dementia-like symptoms?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you assess the president's mental fitness for office?
JACKSON: I had absolutely no concerns about his cognitive ability.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Can you explain to me how a guy who eats McDonald's, and Kentucky fried chicken, and all those Diet Cokes, and never exercises is as in good as shape as you say he's in?
JACKSON: It's called genetics. I don't know.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything you're keeping from us for privacy reasons?
JACKSON: I can promise there's absolutely nothing that I'm withholding from this. I would say he sleeps four to five hours a night. You know, I think, he's probably been that way his whole life. It's probably one of the reasons why he's been successful. He's just one of those people, I think, that just does not require a lot of sleep. I told the president if he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years he might live to be 200 years old. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
MACCALLUM: That was White House physician, Ronny Johnson. He was also the physician for President Obama and President Bush, appointed before that. President Trump, he said was blessed with great genes, you heard him, and excellent health, physically and mentally. An assessment that was dramatically different from what we heard from author, Michael Wolff, who questioned President Trump's mental fitness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WOLFF, AUTHOR: The people closest to the president, to Donald Trump, believe that there is something wrong here. I will quote Steve Bannon, he's lost it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Kind of different. Here now is Mercedes Schlapp, White House senior strategic communication advisor. Mercedes, welcome, great to have you on The Story tonight.
MERCEDES SCHLAPP, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION ADVISOR: It's great to be here.
MACCALLUM: That was interesting this afternoon. It went on for about an hour. And the doctor claimed that the president wanted to have the cognitive part of the test. Can you explain what the, sort of, the strategy behind this whole appearance was this afternoon?
SCHLAPP: Look, I think for President Trump, this was a matter of transparency. This was allowing his physician to come out and talk about the fact that he is fit for duty. And, quite frankly, Martha, I have an opportunity to engage with the president. I see him in action every day where he's talking to his policy advisors, asking the tough questions. Very engaged as to what's happening day in and day out. And directing the staff of what needs to be done from a policy perspective. What we have seen is that Democrats have decided to play this game, this narrative talking about mental fitness instead of actually doing the work of the people and governing. And that's where President Trump, actually, is stand strong on that as our leader and really focusing on what we need to be doing, which is that of pushing forward economic success as we've seen this past year with the passage of the tax cut law benefiting millions of American families. And really honing in on his agenda which, as we know, President Trump is producing results.
MACCALLUM: I thought it was very interesting window into -- in some ways the personality of the president and what makes him tick. And I felt when the doctor said, you know, he was asked about how he deals with stress. And he said he doesn't really seem stressed out to me very often. He said and my office is right across from his. I thought it was hysterical when he said he doesn't even stop in for a band aid. He kind of likes to self- monitor his health. But he says when he's dealing with pressures of the office he's pretty good at waking up in the morning and re-setting, which I found very interesting. Do you have any thoughts on that theory?
SCHLAPP: Well, you have to understand, I mean, President Trump has been a success his whole life. You know, going back to being a successful businessman, to being successful on television as a -- really pioneering reality TV. And then, winning the presidency the first time and really taking on a role which is the toughest job in America. And this president has embraced it. He understands the challenges that come with it. And one thing that he has done here in Washington is that he actually reset the way politics run here. He expects results from congress. He expects results from his cabinet members. And that's why he's such a successful president. And that's why he actually is that political genius that we have a chance to see day in and day out.
MACCALLUM: So today, he hosted and you all hosted the White House women's panel. I want to play a little bit of that from his advisor, daughter, Ivanka Trump, and also small business administrator Linda McMahon. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVANKA TRUMP, WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Women, especially minority women, are the fastest growing category of small business owners. SBA lend women owned businesses $120 million more last year compared to the year prior.
LINDA MCMAHON, SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATIOR: Women are the primary bread winners in more than 40 percent of households. And the tax reform signed into law by President Trump last month will help put more money into those paychecks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Why the focus on this today, you know, with the tax reform bill, it's very interesting the numbers that they put out there, the increase in growth in small businesses that are run by women, Mercedes?
SCHLAPP: Well, this is such an important message that we want to amplify and share with American women throughout this country. In so many of us who are out there working day in and day out are hard-working women who basically are the ones that balance the checkbooks, that are the ones focused on their kids' education, that are the ones really being the heart and soul of their families. And so, I think it was an important message to send because of the fact for President Trump, not only does he have these incredible women in power in his cabinet, as well as Ivanka and his wife Melania who plays such an important role, but to share the economic success story of President Trump and what his team is working on.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, Mercedes. I've got to leave it there. Great to see you tonight. Thanks for coming in. The quote of night when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So apparently, the house intel committee has finished their questioning for today of Steve Bannon. This is Mike Conway taking some questions, the congressman. But he says they have a lot more questions and that Mr. Bannon will be returning. He was issued an on the spot subpoena today to answer questions about his time at the White House. So here is tonight's quote, it comes from Sandy who quotes Voltaire. What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all form of frailty and error, let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That's the first law of nature. Email us your favorite quote at "The Story" at foxnews.com. That's The Story. Tucker is up next.
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