This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," July 19, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Good Sunday morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Maria Bartiromo.
Straight ahead right here on "Sunday Morning Futures": brand-new polls out on the presidential election coming up.
Crime is up across the country, public trust is down, with just 107 days until election 2020, this as Congress returns to work tomorrow to hammer out a new coronavirus relief package before the August recess. They have got two weeks
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy on what to expect, as millions of Americans fear rent protections and extra unemployment benefits are set to expire.
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is here with an insider's look from the White House, as the screws keep turning on China.
Attorney General Bill Barr calls out corporate America for kowtowing to Beijing. Senator John Kennedy will join me with what his move will be next.
Also, global investor Ray Dalio is here responding to A.G. Barr's warning about China.
Plus, what does all of this mean for the 2020 election? Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon with his message on President Trump on what it will take to win in November.
All that and a lot more, as we look ahead right here, right now on "Sunday Morning Futures."
All that coming up, but, first, flags across the Capitol are at half-staff this morning in remembrance of civil rights icon John Lewis.
The longtime Georgia congressman passed away Friday night after a battle with pancreatic cancer. He was 80 years old. A great patriot, Lewis was the last living speaker at the 1963 March on Washington, where Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his "I Have a Dream" speech.
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy was his friend and colleague. He joins me now.
Congressman, it is good to see you this morning. My condolences.
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Good to see you, Maria. Thank you.
And I do want to talk about John Lewis just for a moment, because he lived such an extraordinary life and was an unbelievable man. At such a young age, he tried to cross a bridge simply to give people the right to vote. He did it in a peaceful manner. And he was beaten almost to his death.
I have walked across that bridge with him before. And when he would tell the story, he would stop at a moment and says, I cannot remember past beyond this point, because they would beat him.
And he did it in a peaceful manner to help change this nation that no longer do people are -- choice about which bathroom they use or which counter they eat on, or even registering to vote.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
MCCARTHY: He made this nation better. And he lived his life in a manner that we can all respect and live up to. And he was kind to all.
And he -- I just spoke to him a couple weeks ago, checking on his health, but talking to him about what's happening in the nation today, because he did it in a peaceful manner to help preserve and to actually create a more perfect union. I think can -- a lot to understand him and live by his example to make this nation better.
BARTIROMO: Yes, thank you for that.
When we go to break, after our interview, we're going to show a little clip of John Lewis, which is a beautiful clip and something that I know that our audience will love. So, stay with us for that.
But let me get to the business at hand for our viewers.
And you're going back to -- Congress will return to work tomorrow. And you are looking at a potential next stimulus package, a relief package.
What should be in that package, Congressman?
MCCARTHY: A number of things should be in that package.
But we also have a large amount of money, more than about $1.5 trillion, still out there that we have already appropriated that we need to get into this economy.
But the things I look for are the things we need to do. We need liability of protection, because these small businesses are questioning whether they can open again, our schools and others. So, let's protect those as we move forward.
Let's also look at, any time you're using federal money, it shouldn't give you a -- de-incentivize the ability to work. We have made a mistake where we overpaid on unemployment insurance, where now it's hard for people to come back to work because they're making more on unemployment than they can working.
So we have got to straighten that out as we move forward. I would look at places that we could -- should prioritize the safety when it comes to child care or for our children and our teachers inside schools.
And then I would look at the supply chain. If we learn nothing from this, not the lies of China, but bringing those jobs back to America, but also our supply chain itself, not being beholden to China for so much of our critical minerals and others. Let's find a way that we improve it here and for our stockpiling.
I would do that in a different manner, working with the private sector to stockpile it.
BARTIROMO: Well, so the president would like schools to open in the fall, Congressman. Will there be money in this next bill for schools? And what about the states?
Are these the priorities right now for that next bill?
MCCARTHY: Well, the uniqueness of what we have right now, Maria, we have more than $100 billion that we have already appropriated that can go to the states.
I think we can look at ways that we can make that greater flexibility. And lots of times, we're finding, when we sent these moneys to these governors, that they have held it up, instead of pushing it down to the counties and the cities.
I would like to see more flexibility, where it goes to the counties and cities in the place of need. We would look at hospitals if they need more in the process of where we're going forward.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
MCCARTHY: We also have more than $100 billion sitting there for such a successful program of PPP for small businesses that saved millions of jobs.
Now we're seeing that some states have to close certain portions. Is there a greater need for small businesses? We already have money sitting there.
BARTIROMO: Well...
MCCARTHY: So, could we use the money already appropriated to solve some of these problems?
BARTIROMO: Sure. I understand.
But, you know, the Democrats are pushing back on the president saying he wants to open schools. And I wonder how much of this is politics, although, you know, it is scary for parents to say, we're going to send our kids back to school, and we don't know what the situation is in terms of the coronavirus.
We're seeing spikes across the country.
Here is what President Trump told me just recently when I interviewed him at the beginning of this pandemic. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Your critics want you to keep it closed going into the election?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I do. I do. I think it's a political thing, in addition. I think some sense...
BARTIROMO: Because they're saying you're putting money, business ahead of lives.
TRUMP: No, no.
I think the people that want to see the right thing happen, they agree with me. We have to get our country open. You know, if it was up to some people, let's keep it closed for a long time, OK, a long time. And watch the United States go down the tubes. Not going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: I mean, I guess we are going to be living with this, Congressman.
But can we actually go back to our normal lives safely right now, given these spikes that we're seeing across the country?
MCCARTHY: In certain parts of the country, you can.
Nobody wants to send somebody to school that's unsafe. That's why Congress should actually look at this. How can we protect when it comes to child care, the children in school and the teachers?
But what's more important, when you look at these recent studies, you're finding that children can -- should not -- have not kept their reading, their writing and their math, losing more than 30 percent of it. We cannot have a whole generation that's uneducated.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
MCCARTHY: So, what we need to do is actually put that plan together, because we have got to make sure schools can reopen.
And that takes a responsibility of what we're doing. Now we're finding, even in California, where L.A. and San Diego say they're not going to open for the whole year?
BARTIROMO: Wow.
MCCARTHY: Remember what is happening here with Warp Speed. We have got five companies that are in BARDA that have a real promise of having a vaccine, could even be this year, or the therapies that are coming forward.
Tomorrow is going to be better than today, based upon what this administration is doing.
BARTIROMO: Yes, but look what is happening to our cities.
MCCARTHY: Yes.
BARTIROMO: Look what's happening to our cities.
I know you have a bill right now to punish anybody who is taking down statues. But there's a massive movement across the country on the other side of the aisle. Your colleagues on the left, they want to defund the police.
Listen to Joe Biden recently. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Can we agree that we can redirect some of the funding?
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, absolutely.
One of the things that we also need to be doing is fundamentally changing the way -- and I have been pushing it for years -- changing the way we deal with our prison system. It should be a rehabilitation system, not a punishment system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Well, what does that mean, Congressman?
Because we are seeing this bail reform in New York allow criminals back on the street. And that's one of the reasons crime is skyrocketing. What is your responsibility, as the leader of the GOP, to get law and order back in place in this country?
MCCARTHY: Well, every American should be scared right now, because what you just showed country was Joe Biden said, yes, he is for defunding the police.
You have got Congresswoman Omar, who wants to dismantle America. Then you have got Nancy Pelosi, who is allowing them to destroy America from statues and on. We have a responsibility for rule and law and for justice.
And what we're watching the Democrats doing -- watch what Nancy Pelosi just said the other day. She thinks what's happening is -- in Portland is a graffiti problem. No, it's a mob problem that is overrunning.
You have people across this nation scared to death. You have young children being murdered...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
MCCARTHY: ... because what they're doing to the police department. This is wrong. I introduced a bill...
BARTIROMO: So, your bill -- your bill does what?
MCCARTHY: When law...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
MCCARTHY: Our bill will withhold federal grants for cities that do not uphold and protect the statues...
BARTIROMO: OK.
MCCARTHY: ... because the cities have the responsibility for law and order, not to leave these precincts, not to allow these mobs to rule our communities.
BARTIROMO: Wow. Yes.
MCCARTHY: We have to stand up to this.
BARTIROMO: It is scary out there. I agree with you.
Congressman, it's good to see you this morning. We certainly will be watching the developments.
Thanks so much, Congressman Kevin McCarthy, this morning.
We will see you soon, sir. Thank you.
Coming up: White House chief of staff Mark Meadows on the hot seat over the administration's response to the coronavirus.
As we take a break, a look at the late, great John Lewis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
We have got new FOX News polls released this morning. And it shows coronavirus is the number one issue for voters headed into the 2020 election.
More than half of them disapprove of how the president has handled this pandemic.
I'm joined right now by the White House's chief of staff, Mark Meadows. He has been leading the administration through this crisis.
And, Mark, it is good to have you this morning. Thanks very much for joining us.
First off, what can you say to your critics who say the president has fallen short in his response to the pandemic?
MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, obviously, any time that we get faced with something that is new and unusual, you actually have to engage.
And so this came from China. In the last four or five months, we have been having to figure out how to provide personal protective equipment, ventilators, making sure that we have hospital beds.
And I can tell you, as we look forward, there are a number of things that we're working on to make sure that we have the therapeutics, even as recent as, this morning, shipments going to Florida and Indiana and other places to make sure that some of the treatments that are needed in these critical areas are actually happening.
And I also can tell you that it's a 24/7 around-the-clock kind of work. I was on the phone with the president this morning, as we were working on some of the responses. You will see some new initiatives coming out this week, as the president is not only leading, but will continue to lead and step in a number of fronts.
One of those that you just mentioned earlier, Maria, is about our schools. How are we going to open our schools and make sure that moms and dads don't have to worry about the safety of our children that are going back to schools?
And so there will be over $70 billion that this president has already authorized to work with Congress to try to make sure that we not only keep the classrooms safe, but the teachers safe and the students safe.
BARTIROMO: Right.
MEADOWS: And you will see a very broad five to six points in terms of what we will be doing in terms of making sure that our schools are safe.
BARTIROMO: That's really important.
Obviously, we are going to have to live with this for a little while, before we get the innovation from our pharma sector and a vaccine. Tell me what the president would like to see in another relief package, Mark.
Where are we in terms of the relief and the impact on the economy and people's livelihoods?
MEADOWS: Well, there's -- the discussions have just started over the last week or so.
We have been having a number of internal discussions over the last couple of months. But, as we have started to engage with our Senate and House colleagues up on Capitol Hill, those will start in earnest starting tomorrow.
Monday, I know that Leader McConnell and Leader McCarthy will be coming into meet with the president and Steven Mnuchin, who is leading it from our side, to actually start to fine-tune it.
So I'd see there's three different areas that we're going to make sure of, that we have enough money to make sure that we expedite not only the Warp Speed as it relates to the treatments that we have, whether it be therapeutics or vaccines, but we also want to make sure that we keep people employed.
When you look at the economy and where we need to go with it, we're not going to be shy about making sure that we have protections for the American worker and those that employ individuals. And so you're going to see an additional thrust there.
It looks like that that new package will be in the trillion-dollar range, as we have started to look at it, whether it's a payroll tax deduction, whether it's making sure that unemployment benefits continue, without a disincentive to return to work.
And then, bluntly, we're looking at a number of areas to look at manufacturing, bringing some of those critical manufacturing jobs back from overseas, so that we're never put in a situation where we have to depend on foreign countries to make sure that we can protect Americans.
BARTIROMO: And the president has talked about the crime across the country as well.
Is there something coming in terms of an executive order on returning law and order to this country?
MEADOWS: Well, he's already done a couple of things.
But he's working very closely with Attorney General Barr. I can tell you that, this week, what we're looking at is not only looking at what a lot of people have called the executive order on statues, which he did that. But that's really -- the statues are one thing, but it's really about keeping our communities safe.
And the president's committed to do that. Some of the unrest that we saw even in the last month or so, but particularly last night and the week leading up to it, in Portland, it's just not acceptable, when you look at communities not being safe and not upholding the rule of law.
BARTIROMO: Yes. That's right.
MEADOWS: So, Attorney General Barr is weighing in on that, with Secretary Wolf.
And you will see something rolled out this week as we start to go in and make sure that the communities, whether it's Chicago, or Portland, or Milwaukee, or someplace across the heartland of the country. We need to make sure that our communities are safe.
BARTIROMO: Mark, let me turn to the Russia probe.
You did such an excellent job when you were on the Oversight Committee in terms of zeroing in on the origins of the Russia probe. We now know, for sure -- Lindsey Graham told us this about a month ago, actually, so our audience was aware, that the FBI knew that the dossier was just made-up garbage, and the subsource told the FBI agents that.
And yet Jim Comey and Andrew McCabe kept on pushing forward, renewing warrants to spy on Carter Page.
Your reaction to what we know now. And when are we going to hear from John Durham? Will there be indictments, sir?
MEADOWS: Well, I think the American people expect indictments.
I know I expect indictments, based on the evidence I have seen. Lindsey Graham did a good job in getting that out. We know that they not only knew that there wasn't a case, but they continued to investigate and spy -- and, yes, I use the word spy -- on Trump campaign officials, and, actually, even doing things when this president was sworn in, and after that, and doing it in an inappropriate manner.
You're going to see a couple of other documents come out in the coming days that will suggest that, not only was the campaign spied on, but the FBI did not act appropriately as they were investigating.
It's all starting to come unravel -- to unravel. And I tell you, it's time that people go to jail and people are indicted.
BARTIROMO: It's just unbelievable that, for three years, this president was investigated and investigated again over something that wasn't even true, and the entire country was up in arms about collusion.
I mean, you know, I don't hear anything on the other side of the aisle about this wrongdoing, which is just stunning to me.
MEADOWS: Well, it is stunning.
And here is the interesting thing is, it's not only that it wasn't true. The problem is, they knew it wasn't true.
BARTIROMO: Right.
MEADOWS: And when you know something is not true, and you continue the investigation, that's collusion. That's the kind of thing that we must stop. And that's what we -- where we need to hold people accountable.
BARTIROMO: Mark, it's great to have you this morning. Please come back soon. Thanks so much.
MEADOWS: Thanks, Maria.
BARTIROMO: Mark Meadows joining us there.
Coming up next, Louisiana Senator John Kennedy with breaking news on what to expect from the Senate, as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Lawmakers are returning to Washington tomorrow to negotiate the next coronavirus relief package, but can both sides reach an agreement before millions of Americans lose their extra unemployment benefits at the end of July?
Joining me right now with his expectations for a bill is Louisiana Senator John Kennedy. He serves on the Banking, Budget and Appropriations Committee.
Sir, it's great to see you this morning. Thanks so much for joining me.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): You bet.
BARTIROMO: What are your priorities for a next stimulus bill? Do you want to get something out before the recess starts again on August 8?
KENNEDY: Well, it depends on what's in the bill, Maria.
I don't know what's going to be in the bill. I don't know if there will be a bill. And, frankly, neither does anyone else. It takes 60 votes to pass a bill in the Senate.
The only thing I'm certain of right now is that the bill we pass, if we pass one, will not be Speaker Pelosi's bill. It is untethered to reality. And among most senators, including many Democrats, it's about as popular as a sinkhole.
Among the topics that we will talk about will be, number one, maybe the most important, getting our schools open, money, extra money for K-12. Most fair-minded people believe that keeping our schools closed will do far more damage to our kids than the coronavirus ever can.
Having said that, I know a lot of parents are scared. If you don't want to send your child back to school, you shouldn't, and you shouldn't be forced to. And if you're a teacher or an employee, and you don't want to go back, don't. That's between you and the school board.
But I think we will have enough kids, enough teachers, and enough employees, with the right resources, to get our schools open. We probably shouldn't have closed them down to begin with.
BARTIROMO: There is also some consensus on limiting ability for businesses, schools, and government in terms of their liability.
Is there consensus there? Will that be in the next bill?
KENNEDY: There's not a consensus on anything.
But the other issues we will talk about will be, as you pointed out, limiting liability for our schools and our universities and our hospitals. We will work on trying to give relief to people laid off who lose their health insurance. We will talk about additional PPP. We will talk about additional unemployment compensation.
Payroll tax cut will be on the table, as will direct stimulus payments to American people.
BARTIROMO: OK.
KENNEDY: But, again, there's not a -- there's not even close to a consensus yet.
BARTIROMO: You are also working on a bill.
I want to move on to China. You're working on a bill that will prohibit American companies from collaborating with the Chinese Communist Party.
A really stunning speech this week by Attorney General Bill Barr. Let's hear that. And then I want to get your take on where we are with China. Here is Bill Barr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The ultimate ambition of China's rulers isn't to trade with the United States. It is to raid the United States.
If you are an American business leader, appeasing the PRC may bring short- term rewards, but, in the end, the PRC's goal is to replace you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Pretty stunning comments there, Senator.
What can you tell us about this? The A.G. called out technology companies Cisco, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple, all by name. What is at stake if these companies continue working with China?
KENNEDY: General Barr, in my estimation, is absolutely correct.
The Chinese people are wonderful people, but their government, the Communist Party of China, is comprised of a bunch of outlaws. They're bullies. They understand only strength. If you're too nice to them, if you turn the other cheek, they just stab you in the neck.
The poster child for what the general was talking about is the leadership at the National Basketball Association. The NBA leadership is so greedy, so anxious to do business in China that they do whatever the Chinese Communist Party tells them to do.
If the party told the leadership of the NBA to join the Taliban, the NBA leadership would say, where's the line? I'm working on a bill that would prohibit American companies from giving in to this bullying by the Communist Party of China.
It would say, basically, if you give in to them, you violate American law. Now, it's a delicate bill to draft, and we're working on it.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
KENNEDY: But Barr is right.
BARTIROMO: We want to show you this video of the Uyghurs in China.
Now, this video was shot in 2018, so it's not new. But what it clearly shows are the Muslims and the Tibetans that are locked up in camps in China. They are blindfolded. They are being lined up.
And what can you tell us? What is the responsibility of the free world to take a stand against these people being locked up in China? The Chinese Communist Party has pushed back and said, it's none of your business what goes on in other countries, Senator.
KENNEDY: Well, in my estimation, what the Chinese Communist Party has done to the Tibetans and the Uyghurs is despicable.
All the Tibetans and the Uyghurs want to do is practice their religion. And the Communist Party in China says, your religion is the Communist Party of China. And we have to stand up to them, not just other governments, other Western democracies, but those who value free enterprise as well.
And for those of my colleagues on Capitol Hill who admire the authoritarian socialist approach of countries like China...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
KENNEDY: ... I will just tell you, look at the Uyghurs, look at the Tibetans.
Look what China is doing now, causing mischief with India, in the South China Sea, in Hong Kong. All they understand is -- I don't want to start a cold war with China, but weakness invites the wolves. And we have to be firm with them.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
And, on Thursday, the president signed the Hong Kong sanctions bill, unanimously passed by the bipartisan Senate. This is an important message.
I just will point out that China has already sanctioned Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTIROMO: And they say that this is holding -- this is for them holding CCP officials accountable for what's going on in China, Senator, real quick.
KENNEDY: I think Ted and Marco probably will wear the sanctions as a badge of honor.
For 20 years, we have been told by the commentariat that we have to be patient with China, that free enterprise will change them.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
KENNEDY: They're trying to change free enterprise.
BARTIROMO: Senator, thank you so much.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Well, it is 107 days until America will vote for its next president, in what could be one of the most important policy-based elections in history.
My next guest knows what it takes to win the White House. He helped lead Donald Trump to victory in 2016 as the chief executive of his campaign.
Joining me right now is once again former White House chief strategist, host of "War Room: Pandemic," Steve Bannon.
Steve, it's great to see you this morning. Thanks for being here.
We want to roll out these polls this morning from FOX News and get your take on all of this, because, once again, we see the president lagging.
What do you think is going on? Here is President Trump on the economy, 47 percent approve, 47 percent disapprove, Steve. And then you have got other polls which show the president lagging Joe Biden. Your take?
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Listen, when you go back and look in -- I think it was in March, 51 percent of the American people thought President Trump was doing a good job, a solid job in leadership on this pandemic. I think, in the poll, it's 37, 38 percent, something like this.
This is about just bold action and bold leadership. What I think the president should do, my recommendation would be, every day, start to have the top people around you, Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, the vice president, Dr. Redfield at CDC, Chief of Staff Meadows, have them in the Oval, get briefed every day on an action plan, just drive action, action, action, and do it through action, urgency, and focus.
And get a plan for masks. Get a plan for the schools. Bring the governors in, but with those five people around the desk. And then every couple of days, you bring in the media, and you tell them what the plan of the day is. You tell them where we're driving action.
President Trump is a man of action. When he's taken action on whether shutting down China, shutting down Europe, declaring this a national emergency, when President Trump is taking action, the polls reflect this.
I would -- I think the polls should be an indication to people in the White House that, hey, you're in the driver's seat here. Just go back to the plan you have got.
And, also, you have made a decision about federalism, I think, is very smart, but include the governors now, particularly as this kind of weaponized virus is impervious to summer heat and humidity. It also is asymptomatic. It also targets and looks like it targets the most vulnerable.
And so this is where they have to have, I think, targeted interventions. I think Dr. Birx has talked about this in the past. The White House has all the elements. I think it's just bringing it together around President Trump in a principals only, and every couple of days bring the media in there and let President Trump explain what actions he's taking, not one of these two- hour press conferences, where the media can throw out all these other questions.
But focus on the pandemic. If you focus on the pandemic, you will start to make real progress. And I think the polls will all start to fall in place.
Remember, the CCP lied. Americans died. I think the president can take leadership in this and drive this. And I think the polls will take care of themselves.
BARTIROMO: What can you say about Joe Biden's plans right now, Steve?
This week, the former vice president unveiled a climate plan to cost $2 trillion. Look, he is going to be raising taxes. He's already discussed that, that he's going to be raising taxes. If Elizabeth Warren is his running mate, she -- or not -- she could be Treasury secretary, but she will certainly be an important, key voice in the economy.
She wants to institute a wealth tax. You know, look, we are facing a $22 trillion debt. And you would say, OK, you have to raise taxes in that regard. But he's using that higher revenue to come up with things like a $2 trillion green plan.
What's your take on Biden's agenda?
BANNON: Look, Biden doesn't know what his agenda is. He's trying to reinvent himself every other day.
He goes up to Scranton, Pennsylvania, and makes this kind of populist economic nationalist speech. He's really the concierge of Wilmington, Delaware, which is the headquarters of all the global corporations.
You know, Joe Biden, to me, has to come forward to the American people and tell what his plan on China is. The president's kind of war council has laid out the four horsemen of the Apocalypse against the Chinese Communist Party, the national security adviser, head of the FBI, the secretary of state, and then obviously Secretary -- Attorney General Barr in that magnificent speech.
Those four individuals laid out an integrated and coherent war plan to confront the Chinese Communist Party on technological and information war and economic war, and then, with our allies, start to open up the South China Sea, and support our allies in India on the border of Chinese- occupied Tibet.
You're seeing an integrated war plan put together to take down -- confront first and then take down the Chinese Communist Party, to call their bluff.
And Joe Biden, in his entire speech the other day on economics, mentioned China, I think, one time, talking about electric vehicles. Joe Biden is the candidate of globalization. He's a total globalist. He has kowtowed to the Chinese Communist Party.
The president has a coherent plan against the Chinese Communist Party. I would like the secretary of Treasury to join in there and Treasury to start to drop the hammer. But you have seen a coherent war plan. I think you have just got to get that same level of coherence on the Chinese virus that's here, the CCP virus that has come to the United States.
And I think, if you do that, things will come together. And I don't think Joe Biden has an answer. So far, it's been virtually incoherent.
BARTIROMO: Yes, I want to come back to the China story in a second.
But who do you think Joe Biden will choose as his vice presidential candidate?
BANNON: Well, I think the polling internal to Biden, the number one thing they're looking at is somebody that can't -- that can't throw him off the - - where he's going right now.
So, I think whether it's Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, I think they're looking at a number of candidates. I don't think it's going to matter, at the end of the day, who his V.P. is, because, really, I think Joe Biden is the one that is going to get smoked out.
If President Trump continues to drive action, that -- and Biden is going to be smoked out and going to have to really confront President Trump on the hustings. And I just don't think he's going to stand up.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: Right now, remember, he -- nothing he puts forward is really coherent. And he's trying to reform himself as a -- or rebrand himself as a populist and economic nationalist, against 45 years of his track record.
It is going to be very, very difficult, as the Trump campaign, as a full -- force multiplier off of what's happening at the White House, I think, begins to really identify and kind of brand Joe Biden for what he is.
BARTIROMO: Yes, that was an incredible speech that A.G. Barr made this week, basically calling out corporate America, Steve, to say, look, you can not collaborate with the Chinese Communist Party, that you are putting profits over the short term ahead of the real issues around national security over the long term.
Do you think, increasingly, companies are getting it, or are they still seeing the opportunity to sell widgets to 1.4 billion people?
BANNON: Well, they better get it, because he put a shot across their bow when he talked about FARA, and he said, hey, not only -- he used the word - - remember, this is a very smart guy.
He used collaborator and appeasement, OK, collaboration and appeasement. Those words were specifically chosen by Attorney General Barr to put corporate America on notice. Then he talked about FARA. He talked about you guys being lobbyists and actually being unregistered foreign agents.
So this is something that he really threw down on. And I have got to tell you, it was a magnificent speech.
The other ones of the NSA director, of the FBI director, of Pompeo also have to be reviewed in an entire context of where President Trump is taking this, really, I think, as a war leader, on economic and information war.
What we have to do today is then stop playing games with the CCP. Stop being a supplicant about this virus. We have to tell them, I believe, you turn over every piece of information, you open up the P4 lab, you let Americans and other scientists from around the world go in there and interview everybody, get every document, or we're going to cut you off.
We're going to cut you off from the U.S. dollar. We're going to sanction your banks.
BARTIROMO: Wow.
BANNON: And we're going to sanction the highest members of the Chinese Communist Party, Wang Qishan and Xi.
It's time for -- President Trump has got a great saying: no games. It's time to stop playing games with this murderous dictatorship.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: They lied. The American people have died. Their own people have suffered immensely.
BARTIROMO: Wow.
BANNON: The Communist Party -- people -- the Chinese Communist people -- the people there are innocent victims of this dictatorship.
Bill Barr called it out. Right now, Secretary of State Pompeo has to say, you open up every lab.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: And the secretary of Treasury should come in, with the backing of the president of the United States...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: ... and say, we're off the dollar. We're sanctioning every bank. We're going to sanction individuals, until you come clean.
BARTIROMO: Oh, my goodness.
BANNON: And we're going to get therapeutics and a vaccine and know exactly what this thing is.
Listen, this thing being asymptomatic, this thing being...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: ... impervious to humidity and heat, this thing targeting the most vulnerable population, the aged, comorbidities, minorities...
BARTIROMO: OK.
BANNON: ... this virus, we know very little about.
It's time for them to stop hiding the information.
BARTIROMO: All right, we got to jump.
My next guest will have a thing or two to say about that. I will speak with Ray Dalio, global investor.
Steve Bannon, thank you so much.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Attorney General Bill Barr this week called on American companies to stop appeasing the Chinese Communist Party, saying -- quote -- "The ultimate ambition of China's rulers is not to trade with the United States. It is to raid the United States. If you are an American business leader, appeasing the PRC may bring short-term rewards, but, in the end, the PRC's goal is to replace you" -- from A.G. Bill Barr this week.
Joining me right now is the co-chief investment officer, the co-chairman and the founder of Bridgewater Associates, Ray Dalio, who has studied China and dynasties for decades.
Ray, it's great to have you this morning. Thanks so much for joining us.
RAY DALIO, CO-CHIEF INVESTMENT OFFICER/CO-CHAIRMAN, BRIDGEWATER ASSOCIATES: Good to be here.
BARTIROMO: And I know that you have been to China many times. You have invested in China. What is your reaction to what you're hearing from Bill Barr, Ray?
DALIO: Well, look, I'm a mechanic. I'm -- I just look at cause-effect relationships and what things are like, and so not ideological.
I have been to China, as you say, for 35 years. And I watch them. And I -- we're operating in a world in which they are a, let's call it, worthy opponent, that each country seeks to do what's in its own interest.
And there's a battle over wealth and power. And that's internal or external. And each company, when they go there, forms their own view about what it's like. And then there's law.
And so the way I view that comment or that assessment is that, if the government is going to do something that will have an effect, they will have to create laws, and that those laws will determine what companies are going to do. They will behave according to those laws.
BARTIROMO: Right.
DALIO: Otherwise, you're going to have individual companies make their own assessments.
And from my assessment of going to China and being there, it's not like the China that is being painted. It's not this communist -- it is highly capitalist. The enterprise system is operating, meaning, you go there, and the innovation and the things are powerful.
And that's why you're seeing so many issues with competition. It's -- Huawei is about competition. And their technologies are quite amazing.
So, it is a definitely worthy opponent.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
DALIO: And what's happening now, in the rise of a great power to challenge an existing great power, is the same sort of thing that's happened in the 1930-to-'45 period.
So I hope we have a chance to talk about that, because there are other things that are related...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
DALIO: ... that all come together to determine -- to set the stage that we're now in.
BARTIROMO: Well, I want to talk more about this, because you say Huawei is quite competitive, but isn't Huawei a collection of assets of Nortel Networks?
Was many of those assets stolen? I mean, how do you look at China as a player that is just a competitor, when, in fact, they may very well be stealing intellectual property? I want to get into that when you -- when we come back.
Let's take a short break.
We're talking with Ray Dalio this morning. And he's not only looking at China, but the enormous amount of stimulus thrown at this economy.
We will get into it when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BARTIROMO: And we are back with Bridgewater's co-chairman and co- investments officer, Ray Dalio.
And, Ray, we were talking about China.
I do want to get into the broader economy and the impact there. You have been studying stimulus, in terms of all of this money being thrown at this economy. What do you think the implications are, Ray?
DALIO: I'm going to pick up quickly with your China piece, and then I will come to the other.
I'm just a practical man who has studied histories. And what's happening now has happened all through the history. In particular, I studied the rises and declines of empires and the reserve currency, starting with the Dutch -- they had the world empire -- the British, the United States, and now.
BARTIROMO: Right.
DALIO: And through that period of time, there is what you call stealing.
There has always been the taking of ideas. The British took, hired architects, who took from the Dutch, who had the shipbuilding. And that was their main competitive advantage.
It's a reality. And I think it's important to see that arc. Part of that arc, as you're referring to, has...
BARTIROMO: It's an important point.
DALIO: Sorry?
Part of...
BARTIROMO: I said it's an important point that you're making.
DALIO: Yes.
There's an arc in which it's like competition. They might -- internally, you might say somebody's stealing their ideas. Well, that's right. I mean, that's just the practicality.
And in the world, you don't have the same kind of rules. It's more of a jungle. You don't have laws. And so it's just a practicality...
(CROSSTALK)
BARTIROMO: So, should we just say, well, China is going to beat us? I mean, should we just sit back and say, well, look, this is a threat and that's it?
DALIO: No.
No, I think you just have to see it for what it is, and deal with it well, right? In other words, don't deal with it emotionally. Approach it like a chess game. If I make this move, it will have this implication.
And so I think, if it was clear -- questions like, do you want to go to war? There is -- there are four types of wars brewing. There is a trade war, there's a technology war, there's a geopolitical war, and there might be a capital war.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
DALIO: And so just do you want to approach it as that? How do you approach it intelligently to win that war?
Our biggest issue is our own...
BARTIROMO: Ray, we really need to talk about the economy. We need to talk about the economy. We hope you will come back next weekend, Ray.
Thank you so much, Ray Dalio joining us.
And that'll do it for "Sunday Morning Futures." I'm Maria Bartiromo.
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