Manhunt underway for gunman in French terror attack

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 12, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Morgan Ortagus, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and a pinky ring is her hula hoop, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

A fiend shot and killed at least two people in northeastern France last night, he yelled Allahu Akbar while opening fire at a Christmas market. Wonder what he was trying to tell us. The terrorist was known to authorities, 27 convictions and currently wanted for other violent acts. Considered a threat to the state he was still out and about and might already had fled the country. Now, as an American, the striking thing about this recent attack is how rarely we hear about them now. That's good. But the venom of Islamic terror still exist and injected into a bitter loser culminates in mayhem. It's been so long since writing about this and talking about it, I'm pretty rusty. The fact that such evil can move freely is another reason why security is the backbone of freedom, and while you'll never be 100 percent safe. The only way to enjoy freedom is to understand the price it takes to maintain it.

A border, it's important. But when someone born here is radicalized, that's not enough. Solid walls keep bodies at bay but toxic ideas flowed happily over them. The terrorist was in prison. Prisons have walls and borders, but they only work if the dirt bag is still inside them. He was out and able to kill innocent people. Why? How is that possible? It's infuriating. France, a target of numerous attacks, they still have trouble with priorities. While America enjoys relative safety compared with the past, this is a reminder for the modern world that as we move forward there're still those who wish to take us back.

You know, Morgan, you've dealt with this. It's been kind of your expertise. The last big attack here was around Halloween last year, a terrorist in a truck killed eight and they're mostly tourists. But it seems like we're not really focusing on this as much anymore. Is that wise?

MORGAN ORTAGUS, CO-HOST: Do you mean as it relates to the U.S. focusing on terrorism?

GUTFELD: Yeah, in general.

ORTAGUS: I think it's out of the news because the president, for good reason, has focused a lot on the threats of China and Russia, sort of this great power warfare that we're entering into. He also, for the military, had great success against Syria -- excuse me, against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. I do think that this attack foreshadows the coming debate that this administration is going to have very soon about what we're doing in Afghanistan, if we will keep forces there, if we will pull them out. And I think it serves to remind all of us that this is a generational struggle. This attack may not have been ISIS directed, but it was clearly ISIS inspired. And this continues to be something that Europe struggles greatly with, and we can't keep our eye off the ball.

GUTFELD: Yeah. You know, Dana, the argument over borders is sound, but I don't know if it correlates with this attack. I think the -- I would say that this is more of a failure of law and order to protect society from a known threat.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Right. So -- and one of the things also is that he was radicalized in prison.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: And we know that that's a big problem too. So there's things that you go down the list and, again, you know, hindsight being 2020. Like, well, obviously, he was going to do this again, so why wasn't he kept -- and part of that question has to be like what are the resources that you're willing to spend? Can there be rehabilitation or can there be deportation? I did see that the officials in Germany apprehended his family for questioning because, you know, they don't know if there's coordination, things like that.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: So that area is quite porous, right? And because of the E.U., understandably, from an economic standpoint, they thought this would be better if we've just have no borders, right?

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: They added a border today, but it's a little bit too late.

GUTFELD: Right. Good point. Jesse, I'm going to play you some sound on tape from Fox & Friends. It's a show here on -- in the morning --

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Never heard of it.

GUTFELD: -- before you get up. It's Mike Pompeo --

WATTERS: You know my sleeping pattern.

GUTFELD: I have a camera. He's secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, and he's talking about terror as it relates to security, vice versa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Europe has got an enormous challenge. We have this problem here in the United States as well. Lots of folks that we're watching we think are at risk, we try to monitor but the numbers are so big. It's why, frankly, border security matters too. These are related issues in a sense we need to know who's coming in and out of our country so there are fewer people that the FBI and sheriff's offices in Kansas and places like that have to monitor and watch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: OK. So, Jesse, the issue here -- I mean, is monitoring who's coming in and coming out. But in this terror attack, it wasn't about coming in and coming out, they were -- he's already there, but does it still matter because --

WATTERS: I think he's taking the comprehensive approach.

GUTFELD: Right.

WATTERS: So, you know, you have air, you have land, and you have sea. And according to the Department of Homeland Security, they stop about ten terrorist-related people coming into this country every single year. And, obviously, a lot more money needs to be spent in order to protect the U.S. national security. They have watch lists. They have them here and they have them there. And right now there's about 26,000 people on the French terror watch list. You could get on that list if you fight for ISIS, or even if you go to a jihadi website, or if you have any contact with a suspected jihadist they put you on the list. And that allows the French authorities to place a GPS monitor in your car, it allows them to wiretap you, and exchange information with the other E.U. nations.

You know, we had our eyes on the 9/11 hijackers, on the Boston bombers, on the Pulse Nightclub shooters, and it's very frustrating as an American when someone perpetrates an attack and then you have the idea that the FBI kind of was aware a little bit and it looks like the same thing happened over in France. You know, the viciousness of the attacks kind of strikes me. I went back and looked at the type of attacks in France, and there's been a lot, especially in France, firebombs, hostage taking, machete attacks, car ramming, hammer attack, machine guns --

GUTFELD: You know what else? A lot of gun crime. And their gun control is really high.

WATTERS: Exactly. So, you know, the terrorists continue to be creative with the methodology they use to perpetrate terror. But there's just a lot of weapons out there. And you look at Europe, as an American, you say, you know, you have socialism. That's a warning to Americans. You have terror, that's a warning. The economy, migration, and you sit back and you say what lessons can we learn from Europe before they become a crisis in America?

GUTFELD: I'm setting you up for this, Juan, because I know you have a good point on this that, you know, Donald Trump used this as part of an argument about the border. How do you see that? Do you see that as ludicrous or --

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I mean, it's transparent to me that clearly he's trying to take advantage of this terrible situation. What strikes me, first and foremost, is that this guy had a long criminal record as I've read it. He had been arrested for breaking into a pharmacy, breaking into a dentist office, and put in jail in Germany at one point. He's a bad guy. It does not appear, as Morgan said, to be part of any kind of terror network, although the French police have picked up five people who, maybe, family, but somehow associated with this guy as they try to pursue him at this moment. But in response to you being rusty in terms of doing this, I think that's good news for America --

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- I would say so. But I would point out to you, Greg, that when we have things like the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, or Parkland, or the attack on the southern black church, I think that you have to understand that there're people inside the country who do bad things.

GUTFELD: Absolutely. I would call that terrorism.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. I don't know. I would just say, yeah, for people who are subject to it, for Jews, for blacks, that's real terrorism. You know we just have the guy who ran over the woman down in Charlottesville put in jail for life this week. So, I mean, those are real things. But in terms of trying to advance the border argument, I would wish that the president would just be more direct. It's hard to say that terrorists come across the southern borders because the State Department says that's not the case, but it is the case that he wants to make the argument that we're more secure.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: And I think he has a case to make. Go ahead and make the case. But don't use this as some kind of convenient, you know, argument. To me, it cheapens it.

GUTFELD: I think you can relate them together, but probably finesse in a better way. Did you want the last word there?

ORTAGUS: Yeah, I was just going to say that this attack comes on the backdrop of Paris, literally, being on fire because of the populace protest against the president. You're seeing the prime minister in London just barely escaping a vote of no confidence today. And, of course, in Germany, Angela Merkel, I mean, her party is consistently losing in these elections. So we're really seeing geopolitical turmoil in Europe in a way that I think unprecedented.

PERINO: Well, true. But I do think that we should give their intelligence services and their law enforcement some credit. They're stopping a lot of these before they're happening. And the thing is, you don't hear about a lot of them because it's like the copycat thing. The more you hear about them, the worse it gets.

GUTFELD: That's always the case.

PERINO: The other thing I would say -- this is really a world war.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: The eight people, as you've mentioned, that were killed here last October were all from Argentina.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Yesterday, in Paris, you had a Thai tourist who was killed. Like, there's no one that's not -- no nation is free from this kind of thing because also these terrorists also attack Muslims in their own countries as well.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: You know, I wanted to add was -- I just think we should give a tip of the hat to the good old USA because in terms of assimilation and the Muslim population, France has not done a good job. You look at the USA, we've done a much better job.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And they cooperate with our law enforcement as a result. So, wow, America, you know, we feel bad for what happened over there, but at the same time, I think we're an example for what's possible.

GUTFELD: And the other thing we can't forget is that all it takes is one thing to change -- to erase the entire board. And everything we talk about on The Five becomes another 9/11. If it happens, it takes one. All right, President Trump with some new words for impeachment-happy Democrats. That's ahead on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Fox News alert, Michael Cohen learns his fate. A federal judge sentencing President Trump's former personal lawyer to three years in prison after pleading guilty to numerous charges including lying to congress and violating campaign finance laws. Let's go to Rick Leventhal who was inside the courtroom earlier. What do you got, Rick?

RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS: Jesse, it was packed with members of the media, also attorneys, and federal agents, and three rows of Michael Cohen's family and friends who all listened intently as he spoke for almost 10 minutes before he was sentenced. Near the very beginning, he told the judge this may be hard to believe but today is one of the most meaningful days in my life, the day I got my freedom back because he says his blind loyalty to Donald Trump led him to choose a path of darkness over light, ignoring his own moral compass and spending several years in what he called mental incarceration.

The hearing lasted just over an hour, included Cohen's attorney asking for leniency, suggesting that his client made a remarkable life decision to cooperate with the federal government, offering evidence against the most powerful person in the country, saying Cohen was a man of integrity and an honest businessman. But U.S. attorneys painted a different picture of a man fueled by greed and a lust for power who deliberately and willfully stole millions and he wrote in fate in the electoral process. They say trying to influence the outcome of the presidential election. Judge William Pauley said that somewhere along the way, Michael Cohen did lose his moral compass and the magnitude and breadth of misconduct require significant deterrence. That deterrence, as you've mentioned, 36 month in federal prison, three years supervised parole, $1.3 million in restitution to the IRS, the forfeiture of a $500,000 loan, and about $100,000 in fines. Jesse, he can spend the holidays with his family. He will turn himself in on March 6.

WATTERS: Rick, thank you very much. President Trump ready to fight back as Democrats ramp up impeachment talk. Trump telling Reuters, quote, it's hard to impeach somebody who hasn't done anything wrong and who's created the greatest economy in the history of our country. I'm not concerned, no. I think that the people would revolt if that happens. I kind of agree with him, Greg. Especially if the impeachment is on party lines and if it's something really thin, not a major collusion or --

GUTFELD: Hold on a -- you're telling me, Jesse, that you agree with Donald Trump?

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: We need another breaking news. Get Rick Leventhal back here. By the way, I agree. Trump bears responsibility for employing Cohen. That's not against the law to employ a bad lawyer who did then might have done something wrong. Cohen pleading guilty is not the same as Trump pleading guilty. That Cohen may have broken the law is not the same as Trump broke the law. The media is addicted completely to what if's, not what is, or what are. And they're spending so much time on that, that They can't see the truth. I love this. Can I talk about Avenatti?

WATTERS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: He held a press conference condemning Cohen. Do we need to show it?

WATTERS: Let's show it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL AVENATTI, LAWYER: Michael Cohen is neither a hero nor a patriot. Michael Cohen will report to federal prison exactly one year after we filed a case on behalf of Stormy Daniels. Michael Cohen was sentenced today. Donald Trump is next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: He's the best. I would say the pot calling the kettle black, but that might be racist.

WATTERS: And he just lost his Ferrari.

GUTFELD: Yes, he did. He lost his Ferrari.

WATTERS: All right. In a great piece in the Daily Signal by Hans Von Spakovsky --

PERINO: Yeah, we call him HVS.

WATTERS: HVS.

GUTFELD: I got that once.

WATTERS: And it says Trumps ex-lawyer didn't violate campaign finance laws and neither did the president. It's a very methodical look at the federal election commission, how they rule on cases like this before.

PERINO: And he would know because he was an appointee to the federal election --

WATTERS: You know a lot about HVS.

PERINO: Yes. Well, HVS -- it took a lot to get him confirmed during the Bush administration. I don't even know if we ever did, but he was inactive anyway. HVS is great guy.

WATTERS: HVS, great guy.

PERINO: He knows what he's talking about.

WATTERS: Right. So you have the campaign finance violation, and that's going to be, obviously, argued. And President Trump saying people in the streets with pitchforks, do you think he's sending a message right there to his supporters?

PERINO: No, I do not. And I think anyone who -- what was it? The ran away with the spoon? What do I ran away with the spoon.

GUTFELD: I know a few people that have.

WATTERS: Jumped over the moon.

PERINO: Something about the spoon. They took it too far. I think what he's saying it's his supporters, his base, the people who voted for him, who didn't vote for him because of Russia or for any other reason that they're going to say like how could you do this? We voted for him. He's the legitimate President of the United States. We love what he's doing. How dare you say that? He's saying -- he doesn't mean that they're going to revolt against the country and like pick up weapons and go after people. That's not what he meant. He just meant that there would be frustration, right? And big time.

I also feel like on the campaign finance laws, it is murky. I've talked to three different lawyers today. Everyone has a different interpretation of it. That's why you have an FEC. But remember, Michael Cohen does not just go to jail for three years because of campaign finance violation.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: He admitted guilt to all sort of things in terms of his own decisions --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: -- personal decision, his bad business dealings, and that's really why he's going to jail.

WATTERS: Exactly. So, Juan, Donald Trump, as we've discussed a long time, he can get along with Democrats. I mean, he's not an ideological guy. Do the Democrats risk something if they go in right from January and say impeach, impeach, impeach, and hold the line. Instead, rack up some bipartisan compromises with the president in the new congress and the Senate and maybe get some bills passed, and then they can run and say, listen, I got things done in congress.

WILLIAMS: Well, in fact, that's what he said last night to Reuters. He said we can go down two paths here. One is constructive and one is more of this kind of investigation stuff. But before we do that, let me just quickly say that, in fact, Bill Clinton had a better economy than Donald Trump and he was impeached, so we'll see. I mean, I don't think --

PERINO: His approval rating also went up.

WILLIAMS: That's right. So, I'm just saying, I mean, but it's not a case that because --

WATTERS: Wait until the Trump economy really kicks into high gear --

WILLIAMS: Oh, is that right?

WATTERS: -- impeach in the second term. We're not there yet.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. You're looking forward now.

WATTERS: Yes, always looking forward.

GUTFELD: There could be two impeachments.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: One per term.

WILLIAMS: Hey, wait a second. This is The Five. We've got to go the other way. And the second thing to say is you guys tried to separate Cohen from Trump.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But wait, I believe the prosecutors say individual one who we believed to be President Trump, directed Mr. Cohen. Remember, the argument from the president was there was no payment to Stormy Daniels. No, we weren't paying anybody. And then the second thing --

GUTFELD: There's still no crime.

WILLIAMS: Wait, you won't even let me finish. But the second thing he did was then he blames Cohen, right? He says -- and then he says --

GUTFELD: Bad lawyer.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: That's exactly what he said. So -- and then -- you know, all of this kind of denial and lies by the president, you can't ignore --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Not collusion.

WILLIAMS: The president is the one who's involve here.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: No, I'm telling you this is why the American -- we should do a whole hour on this.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Do you know what Mueller's prosecutor said today in court? Cohen was helpful to them by providing information about Trump's contact with Russia.

GUTFELD: What if is not what is.

WATTERS: What do you think?

ORTAGUS: I mean, I think that -- so what you saw with Cohen and both the American news media, they pled to this, they had a plea deal. So this wasn't litigated in a court, and so I think that -- if this does go before the congress, this isn't settled law, this hasn't been tested in that court. And I think, as Dana said, the president can make a clearer argument here that I was doing something to protect my family. I similarly talked to several lawyers today and had everyone had a different response on this. So it comes down to the politics. What do the 20, 30 Republican senators in the Senate think if the House impeaches, and do they want to remove a president for what is a campaign violation, or making a payment to protect his family. I don't see that happening.

WATTERS: All right. Hans Von Spakovsky, if you need to know anything about campaign finance law read this guy.

PERINO: HVS.

WATTERS: HVS. Up next, Democrats are fired up for 2020, but Biden and Bernie just got some very bad news. We'll tell you what it is, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back. The road to 2020 coming into focus with some very new developments, a former advisor to President George W. Bush says Joe Biden should run on a, quote, unity ticket, and she has a surprising choice for a running mates, Utah senator-elect Mitt Romney. Meanwhile, Beto O'Rourke edges out Bernie Sanders as the top presidential candidate among progressive Democrats in a moveon.org straw poll. And former Tallahassee mayor, Andrew Gillum, generating more 2020 buzz by speaking at the DNC donor's conference yesterday. Morgan, what do you make of that?

ORTAGUS: Well, I could see -- I think Gillum is a talented politician. I watched him in Florida, you know, state that I grew up in. And it's not surprising to me about Beto getting this energy because, I think, as much as I sort of respect Biden even though I'm a Republican, I just don't see - - he seems hesitant. It's the same thing that happened, you know, in '16. He seems hesitant to get in. He's leading in the poll. I don't think he ultimately is going to go for it. I mean, this is not based on fact. This is just based on my cable news pontificating. I just see the energy --

WATTERS: Don't put that down.

ORTAGUS: -- with younger -- with the younger voters, with Beto's -- and I think that, listen, President Trump never held elected office before coming here, so it will be tough to beat him. I still like, out of everybody, as -- not that the Democrats care what I think, but I still like Kamala Harris. I think she's tough to beat. She's a sharp woman. She held herself well in the judiciary hearings. So I wouldn't count her out. If the Democrats want a woman, I would put my money on her.

WILLIAMS: By the way, so just the audience knows, Beto O'Rourke got about 15 percent, Joe Biden 14 percent, Bernie Sanders 13, and your pal Kamala Harris --

GUTFELD: Yeah, your best friend.

WILLIAMS: -- about 10 percent. Elizabeth Warren 6. So, Jesse, what do you think? Who's your favorite?

WATTERS: I think Beto has got it if he plays his cards right. He's courting the Obama team right now. I think, you know, you have it, and it only lasts for a certain amount of time and you have to seize that moment. Elizabeth Warren didn't seize that moment. Bernie almost seized the moment, and then Hillary rigged the primary against him.

PERINO: Chris Christie.

WATTERS: Chris Christie had it in -- was it 2012?

PERINO: Yeah.

WATTERS: And he stayed in New Jersey and then bridge-gate happened. So, you've got to go for the gold immediately, and it looks like he'll get it. I like Kamala Harris, too. And I think Gillum is very talented. And they're both young and attractive candidates. The Morning Joe ticket, which I call this unity ticket, that's like what people that used to work for John McCain pitched just to get on MSNBC, and it will never happen. This country is so divided along political extremes that you can't even get anything bipartisan done in congress. How are you going to get a whole political party to come together? The Lieberman people, the Kasich people, the Flakes, these people don't --

ORTAGUS: The winners. The winners.

WATTERS: Right.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. What about you and me running, Jesse?

WATTERS: Juan, sorry to say. Going in another direction.

WILLIAMS: Juleanna Glover is the one who came up with his idea for the unity ticket, Dana. How does it strike you?

DANA PERINO, HOST: Well, I think it -- look, it provides people some fun things to talk about. Like, imagine if that would happen. But this isn't fantasy football. It's not going to happen. And I agree with everything Jesse said. You have to pick your moment.

WATTERS: What was that again?

PERINO: I agree with everything Jesse said.

WATTERS: OK. Just wanted to make sure.

PERINO: And I appreciate everything Jesse says always. And that's why don't want to just repeat what he was saying.

I would add that I read Biden is going to huddle with his family this weekend. And it's not too long now that you'll see a lot of Democrats, 2020 hopefuls, will be heading to Iowa in 2020. I'm going to be on Tucker Carlson tonight, talking about this very thing.

So -- and just thinking about somebody like a Beto, you're going to -- you take this urban message, right, that a lot of the coastal folks, they really loved it. Money came in from New England and California to Texas to help him raise $38 million.

But when you take that message to Iowa, it has to sound -- it's going to be different. But I agree, he cannot miss his moment. If he does, 2024 is not open to him.

WILLIAMS: All right. So Greg, a lot of people think, after watching that big showdown yesterday in the Oval Office, that they need an outsider.

GUTFELD: I am going to go against the grain on this unity ticket idea, OK? Because everybody says it's a crazy idea, but how many people said that about Trump? I did, about him running. I didn't think he would run. He did. I didn't think he would win. He did. The -- crazy ideas can become reality.

And because every election is essentially a pendulum. Right? And the pendulum is based on two variables. Sometimes it's left. Sometimes it's right. It could be division. It could be unity.

And I've been saying this for the last, I don't know, couple of months. That the message for the Democratic Party is to make America together again. Because there is this perception that there's a split.

So maybe -- I don't think this is a crazy idea, and I do think it's actually a potentially winnable idea. The only thing is I wonder if it's a trojan horse by the Dems.

WATTERS: Who's at the top of the ticket?

GUTFELD: That's the thing. They would definitely have to have Biden, because he was the V.P. and then they -- let's say we offer unity, but once they're in, they just go back to being the liberals. So I think it's the right idea of unity. It's smart.

PERINO: Wow.

WATTERS: If they do that unity ticket, we impeach Biden so Romney gets the --

GUTFELD: That's what I was -- yes, you read right through me.

ORTAGUS: Finally gets the position he deserves.

WATTERS: Right. What a different country.

WILLIAMS: Too much. I think you just have to go to the next -- wait for the next segment. Bernie Sanders joins Bret Baier, though, live on "Special Report" tonight --

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- right after "The Five." Be sure to catch that.

GUTFELD (imitating Bernie Sanders): Bret, I love you.

WILLIAMS: Meanwhile, up next, Nancy Pelosi makes the brawl over the border wall very personal with a new jab at President Trump. You're going to want to hear about this. Don't miss it next on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need border security. The wall is a part of border security. You can't have very good border security without the wall.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: That is simply not true. That is a political promise. Border security is a way to effectively honor our responsibility.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: The experts say you can do border security without a wall, which is wasteful and doesn't solve the problem.

TRUMP: It totally solves the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ORTAGUS: If you thought the fireworks in the Oval Office was the end of the fight over the border wall, think again.

Nancy Pelosi taking a personal shot at Trump afterwards in a private meeting, saying, quote, "It's like a manhood thing for him. As if manhood could ever be associated with him. This wall thing."

Greg, a lot of people gave her accolades yesterday for handling himself while in the Oval Office. I think she called herself -- she said she was sort of being the mom, trying to keep the peace. But then she went after the president's --

GUTFELD: Yes.

ORTAGUS: Yes. And so did she sort of negate her performance by taking it down to that level?

GUTFELD: Yes, but you know what? It's such a woman thing. It's such a woman thing to do that. I hope -- I hope people come after me for that, because that would show your hypocrisy.

How predictable -- how predictable the media is that they keep saying that Trump storms out. He throws a tantrum. It's like they never had -- these reporters never had a boss.

People yell when they're -- when they're -- all the time. I yell constantly at Dana, but it's never in a bad way. But if you want to know if somebody is hiding something, say, "Let's not do it in public."

So Nancy is all upset about how they argued in front of the media. We should be making these debates public. We should be -- we should be debating everything. And that's the great thing about what's been happening right now, is we got to see how the sausage is made. And I'm sorry if Donald Trump doesn't, you know, just send carefully-worded emails with emojis. He likes to have it in front of everybody else. We learn a lot, and I think that's important.

ORTAGUS: So but Juan, I mean, from a political perspective, there were a lot of pundits yesterday thinking that Nancy Pelosi won the day. But people who really support the president saw him standing up, being tough, not having Michael Cohen in the head of the news, and talking about, you know, the things that are important to debate.

So how do you see it? Do you think it was a political winner for him at all, or do you really think that the Democrats won by getting him to talk about the shutdown?

WILLIAMS: Well, if you're thinking about politics, what he said was play to the base, because I think, as Dana pointed out yesterday, I think there was an NPR poll that indicated something like 60-plus percent of Republicans don't want him to compromise on this.

But it wasn't transparent so much as revealing to me how little he knows about the wall and even about the negotiation that's coming. One, he said he's going to take responsibility for the shutdown. It will be on him. It's his mantle.

Wow, if that's the case, history would indicate that's a sure loser for him.

GUTFELD: He's said that before, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I think he said it very clearly yesterday and said it on camera.

GUTFELD: But he's said it before.

WILLIAMS: Well, OK. I don't know. I think he said it. That's what Chuck Schumer said.

GUTFELD: Remember, he says -- he says, "I'll always take the heat."

WILLIAMS: Right, OK. And then you've got to recall here that he then goes on, and he's going after Nancy Pelosi. So to your point, Morgan --

ORTAGUS: Going after her in what way?

WILLIAMS: Well, he said, you know, Nancy can't really speak honestly here, because she's got her leadership issues. She still has a vote to come as to whether she will be the House leader. Right?

And she says to him -- and I thought it was very effective -- "Mr. President, I don't want you speaking to my strengths. I can handle this." And I thought mansplaining. She put him in his place.

GUTFELD: She mansplained? That's an insult to Nancy. She's a woman.

WILLIAMS: No, no. To him.

ORTAGUS: No, no. He's saying Trump -- yes.

GUTFELD: He wasn't mansplaining.

WILLIAMS: But you know what this did politically, Morgan? It helped Nancy Pelosi with the House vote, because now, a lot of people on the left said, "Hey, wait a second." Not only was she strong in dealing with Trump and effective in making the argument, dealing with fallacies and his parent performance, but she clearly is someone who proved that there should be a woman in the room and that a woman has some value there. Chuck Schumer --

GUTFELD: There are women in that room! Have you not seen Nikki Haley? Have you not seen the other women? You're so patronizing, Juan, to her.

WILLIAMS: No, Pence is the one that you should worry about, but I think he's a man. But he was standing there.

GUTFELD: I'm talking about who's been in the White House.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm talking about in that room yesterday.

ORTAGUS: Jesse, you know everything about the wall. Where do you stand on this?

WATTERS: I do?

ORTAGUS: Senior advisor to the president.

GUTFELD: Stands on the wall.

WATTERS: Well, she's saying that walls aren't effective. I would just look at Israel. Very effective there. Everywhere they've put it: in San Diego, El Paso, Tucson, Yuma.

GUTFELD: Her own property.

WATTERS: Everywhere they put a wall, that -- it has driven illegal immigration to a place around the wall. And if Juan doesn't think that the wall is effective, let's see you hop over it, Juan. We should send you down there to the prototypes. I'd like to see you dig and jump.

WILLIAMS: You know --

WATTERS: You're not getting anywhere near that thing.

WILLIAMS: You have to be sensitive to the old, you know. Sensitive.

GUTFELD: That would be fun, though.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: -- here, and I couldn't get over it either.

GUTFELD: A wall obstacle course

WATTERS: That's right.

WILLIAMS: That would be good.

WATTERS: And Juan, you're also saying Trump is always playing to his base. Trump is the base. I mean, the guy is pretty hard right when it comes to illegal immigration. He's not pandering. He's not catering. It's what he believes in. It's what he ran on.

Nancy Pelosi, I thought she did better than Crying Chuck. And Crying Chuck, you know, for him to say that Trump threw a temper tantrum, his name is Crying Chuck. He's a little emotional.

ORTAGUS: Dana, I don't know what you felt like. When I was watching it, I felt like every, like, business meeting I've been in when I'm the only woman in the room, and you're just sort of like, "Oh, dear God," watching all the guys fight.

But I don't -- I really don't -- I give her props for which she did in the room, but I don't like how she took it to, like, the lowest common denominator when she got out of the room.

PERINO: Well, I would say that the compromise, if it's to come, that likely will not happen in public. Because Nancy Pelosi got what she needed yesterday in terms of support from the Democrats. President Trump got what he needed yesterday: support from Republicans.

And so when they actually are going to say, "OK, look, I put this on the table. You put that on the table," that will probably happen in private. And then they will leave, and everyone will characterize it differently.

I think that this could actually go to a shutdown, but I also think that, because seven appropriations bills have already been passed, that the pain of the shutdown is probably not going to be that acute unless it goes on for a long period of time.

WILLIAMS: But you know, you're talking about 25 percent of the government.

PERINO: I know.

WILLIAMS: Thousands of federal employees out of work in the Christmas season.

ORTAGUS: Yes, and especially --

GUTFELD: Holiday season, Juan! Remember where you work.

WILLIAMS: Sorry, sorry. Sorry.

ORTAGUS: All right, everybody. Don't go anywhere. My favorite "Wild Card Wednesday" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COUNTRY MUSIC)

GUTFELD (SINGING): And then it's country music.

PERINO: All right. It's "Wild Card Wednesday."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(GRAPHIC: SLOT MACHINE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: We could just end this little thing.

PERINO: Why? I'm going to go -- back to you.

All right. Each of us chose a topic and put them in this hat. Nobody knows what the others' picks.

So first up, here we go. This one is "Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame to announce new inductees tomorrow." This is yours.

GUTFELD: Yes!

PERINO: OK, you like it? It's Def Leppard, Janet Jackson, Rage Against the Machine. That's a good one.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Janet Jackson, Rage Against the Machine --

GUTFELD: Boo.

PERINO: -- and L.L. Cool J.

GUTFELD: Yes, OK, let me quickly, since I picked this one. Def Leppard is the fan favorite. They have a one-armed drummer, who's amazing. Lost his arm, continued.

The other, Rage Against the Machine, give me a break. Come on. And I'm just waiting for Faith No More and "Mr. Bungle" and -- oh, here we go. Kraftwerk. Amazing -- amazing German band. And of course, L.L. Cool J is great. MC5, too left-wing for me.

PERINO: The Cure, huh?

GUTFELD: The Cure, great. The Zombies. One of the most overlooked pop bands of the '60s. And they're still, I think, touring. But they were kind of overshadowed by the Beatles.

WILLIAMS: What do you think of Devo?

GUTFELD: I love Devo. I've seen Devo three times. From Akron, Ohio. And --

PERINO: Akron.

GUTFELD: -- one of the most innovative bands ever.

WILLIAMS: Pretty good.

GUTFELD: "De-Evolution."

PERINO: All right, all right.

WATTERS: Is this what you talk about on your podcast?

GUTFELD: No, but I should.

WATTERS: Yes, you should.

PERINO: Yes, have it on the podcast, right.

GUTFELD: That's what I'm going to do.

PERINO: A new study finds the most addictive foods.

ORTAGUS: Yes.

PERINO: A new study conducted by the University of Michigan has identified some of the most addicting foods out there, accounting for their sugar, fat, and how they've been processed.

GUTFELD: Oh, God.

PERINO: And we have food.

WATTERS: Oh, yes!

GUTFELD: This is an --

PERINO: So it's pizza, chocolate, and potato chips are the three most addicting foods. Who chose this one?

ORTAGUS: I did. Because --

WATTERS: Thank you.

ORTAGUS: -- I totally agree.

GUTFELD: Oh, look at that. I'm on Atkins.

WATTERS: Oh, my gosh. That looks so good.

GUTFELD: Why do you do this?

ORTAGUS: I eat like a truck driver. And I love pizza.

GUTFELD: Do you mean you eat in the front seat of a car while driving?

ORTAGUS: The only thing that I would add would be instead of the potato chips, I love French fries. So -- yes.

GUTFELD: It's a potato.

WATTERS: Look at that flop.

PERINO: Would you put potato chips on your pizza?

GUTFELD: That's a great idea. That is a great idea.

ORTAGUS: Right, does that sound good?

WATTERS: I'll do it.

GUTFELD: I'm trying to lose weight, guys.

ORTAGUS: It's really good.

And then you've got the chocolate bar over there.

GUTFELD: You know, TV is not kind to overweight people; and yet they try to get us to gain weight.

PERINO: By doing this food segment?

WILLIAMS: I'll eat. I'll eat some.

PERINO: All right. Juan is going to eat.

WILLIAMS: I'm a big fan of pizza. You know, I just love it.

ORTAGUS: Cheers, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Cheers.

PERINO: All right. I'm going to keep going.

GUTFELD: You are lactose tolerant. I'm lactose intolerant.

PERINO: Morgan, anytime you bring a food thing, it's going to be a big hit.

All right. And next one, taking a look at Google's top ten how-to questions of 2018. Google's released this list of the Year in Searches, which reveals the most Googled people, places, events and more.

So the things of "how to do": How to delete Facebook and Instagram.

WATTERS: Wow.

PERINO: That was one of the top searches.

WATTERS: That's interesting.

PERINO: OK. How to solve a Rubik's Cube.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

WATTERS: That's easy.

PERINO: How to put lights on a Christmas tree. That might've been Clark Griswold. And how to floss dance.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PERINO: Which I understand you can do.

WATTERS: I cannot do it. I've tried. And I will not do that on television.

GUTFELD: Floss dance?

WILLIAMS: There it is, Jesse. All you have to do is follow that young man.

WATTERS: I can't do it. Can you?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

WATTERS: I can't do that, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Why can't you do that? It's not hard, Jesse!

GUTFELD: What's he flossing?

WILLIAMS: You've got to have a little rhythm in your bones.

PERINO: His body.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

WILLIAMS: I thought you were 1 percent black.

GUTFELD: Where is the floss? Where is the floss?

WATTERS: You know what? That 1 percent doesn't know how to do that dance.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's a pretty popular dance. All you've got to do is swing your arms to the left while you keep your hips to the right.

WATTERS: You know what, Juan? Let's see it.

WILLIAMS: Let's see it. I'm hooked up, Jesse.

WATTERS: All right. Well, may be in the break. And we'll tell you if Juan can do it when we come back.

PERINO: I Googled how to do an updo.

GUTFELD: Really?

PERINO: Yes. It's going to make the top ten.

GUTFELD: Better than a doo-doo.

PERINO: Here's another one. Sleep texting is real, say Villanova University researchers. According to researchers, sleep texting is now a thing. Twenty-five percent of students surveyed said they had sent a response to a text while they were asleep. They did not remember using their phone, because sleep texting happens subconsciously.

WATTERS: I chose this, because I think it's fake news.

ORTAGUS: I agree.

WATTERS: There's no way you can text while sleeping.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: I mean, that's fake.

PERINO: Not really sleeping.

GUTFELD: It's an excuse, right?

WATTERS: It's like sleepwalking. No one sleepwalks.

GUTFELD: When somebody finds a text and they go, "Oh, I must have done that when I was asleep."

WATTERS: It's a great excuse for you.

WILLIAMS: You know, the thing about Trump is he will text at 3 a.m. in the morning. Now, is he asleep, or is he awake?

PERINO: No, he's awake, because he doesn't need much sleep.

OK, look, text messages -- this is my last one. Text messages may be next to face a California tax. Can you believe this?

GUTFELD: Of course.

PERINO: They're going to add a tax and money is supposed to go to making phone service accessible to low-income residents.

GUTFELD: If you got struck by lightning in California, they would tax the lightning.

PERINO: It's electricity.

GUTFELD: "You've got to pay for that."

PERINO: All right.

ORTAGUS: I wonder if that works for, like, signal and WhatsApp.

PERINO: Well, here's the thing. Everybody will find a way around it.

WATTERS: Yes, like Michael Cohen.

PERINO: All right, "One More Thing" is up next.

GUTFELD: The injustice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "One More Thing" -- Jesse.

WATTERS: Special edition of --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

GRAPHIC: Mom Texts

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: -- "Mom Texts." All right. These have really been piling up fast.

No. 1, "Manafort is a criminal." Short and sweet, Mom.

No. 2, "Jesse, the Mueller investigation is now a three-pronged attack. You read Axios and you are coming across as utterly ethical and valueless? Why do that?"

Hello, Ma.

No. 3, "You do not have the expertise nor knowledge to question the special counsel's investigation until you know what they know. Hush, Jesse."

GUTFELD: Wait, that's not right.

WATTERS: It's kind of what I do, Mom.

WILLIAMS: It's true.

GUTFELD: That's what you do.

WATTERS: No. 4, "We are a nation of laws. Please down -- please tone down the strident attack on our court system. You end up presenting as lacking a moral compass, honey. We all know you are a Trumpet -- you need not scream it."

GUTFELD: Oh!

ORTAGUS: I like that she called you "honey."

WATTERS: Yikes.

GUTFELD: That was a softening blow.

WATTERS: Here's another one. "Please bring just a tad more measured caution to your heretofore overly excited support of this president. You are presenting is really out there, Jesse. And above all, please stay in your wheelhouse. You can have an opinion, but let's acknowledge that you have no legal expertise."

GUTFELD: She's actually worse --

WATTERS: Than (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And the last one, "Do not accept an offer to be chief of staff."

Don't worry, Mom, I haven't been asked.

PERINO: She didn't want you to move to D.C.

GUTFELD: Brutal.

WATTERS: Yes, that's why.

GUTFELD: Wow. I don't think anyone can be more critical than that.

All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I've tried.

GUTFELD: She's doing your -- she's doing --

WILLIAMS: I know.

GUTFELD: I think we've got a fill-in.

WILLIAMS: Hats off to you, Mom. You're on target.

All right. You remember this 109-year-old woman? Yes, that's Virginia McLaurin of Washington, D.C. And now she's gone from dancing with the Obamas to singing for the Harlem Globetrotters.

She wrote and sang for the favorite team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIRGINIA MCLAURIN, 109 YEARS OLD (SINGING): The sun come up. Globetrotters going to shine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: And after McLaurin's song, the Globetrotters gave 109 tickets in honor of her age to students at the school where she is a teacher's aide, the Roots Public Charter School.

By the way, here I am with two of the Globetrotters when they recently visited FOX News.

PERINO: That's cool.

WATTERS: Nice. And you know, for the record, Juan can do the floss dance. He just did it in the break. I'm shocked. His granddaughters must have taught him how to do that.

GUTFELD: All right, all right. All right, all right, all right.

FOX Nation, "One Smart Person and Greg Gutfeld." This one is with sex writer, science writer and political commentator Dr. Debra Soh. You're not going to want to mess that is. It's pretty shocking stuff. And --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Oh, you're going to love this one. Animals are great, and you know what's great? Is when animals -- it's great when animals surprise people.

Check out this UPS worker. Was startled when he was waiting for the door to answer. He's just hanging out. And then all of the sudden --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SQUIRREL LANDS ON UPS WORKER'S SHOULDER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Startled by a squirrel!

WATTERS: He's not even --

GUTFELD: This is a lot like me.

ORTAGUS: He looks totally calm.

GUTFELD: Yes. I think he's actually enjoying a little squirrel massage there. You know, squirrels are great, because they can just show up at any time and bring a smile. And that's why --

WATTERS (singing): Animals are great!

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I've got one minute left. All right. Dana.

PERINO: Well, animals can also surprise. Check this out. Judy Johnson in her 60s, she's swimming in New Zealand, off the coast of New Zealand, when three killer whales come up beside her and start swimming with her.

And she said that she was, like, kind of terrified at first, but then she realized that she made eye contact with them. And apparently, she really liked it, and she stayed in the water with the killer whales.

WATTERS: Is that what you're supposed to do? Make eye contact?

PERINO: I will never do that.

WATTERS: That's the move.

ORTAGUS: OK, this is a scene that's out of a children's book. A ton of liquid chocolate literally flowed out of a factory and caked on the streets up a west German town on Monday.

GUTFELD: German.

ORTAGUS: The tank overflowed.

PERINO: Wow.

ORTAGUS: Twenty-five firefighters were on the scene trying to shovel and crack the chocolate. This seems like my Christmas dream come true.

PERINO: That seems great.

WILLIAMS: Willie Wonka gone wild.

ORTAGUS: There you go.

GUTFELD: All right. Avoiding a couple of jokes there.

Set your DVRs, never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next.

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