Kellyanne Conway: Trump staying on top of economy, pandemic, and unrest

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Kellyanne Conway: Trump staying on top of economy, pandemic, and unrest

Kellyanne Conway, counselor to President Trump, react to polls putting Biden ahead of Trump.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," January 8, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: So, good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum, and this is "The Story." Something has shifted in America. As Peggy Noonan writes today. Months of fear, sickness and economic earthquake simply just don't leave things where they started. Candidates running for office in this environment must meet the people where they are and give them hope for a brighter tomorrow. They must acknowledge the shift and lead the way forward from that spot.

It is a deep calling and it is one that the country is waiting for. So, right now, according to the polls, Joe Biden is already anywhere from 6 to
11 points ahead in key battleground states, which is while - all while he is running essentially an almost invisible campaign at this point.

While once candidate Trump and now President Trump has found himself in tough spots, he has always bounced back from them. Today, The Wall Street Journal sends up a very sharp warning signal with this prescription. The one issue in which voters give him an edge over Mr. Biden is the economy. 
An agenda to revive the economy after the pandemic and restore the gains for workers of his first three years would appeal to millions.

Perhaps Mr. Trump lacks the self-awareness and discipline to make the case. 
He may be so thrown off by his falling polls that he simply can't do it. If that's true, he should understand that he's headed for a defeat that will reward all of those who schemed against him in 2016, writes the editorial board there.

So, how does the White House answer these questions? Kellyanne Conway joins us in a moment tonight. Also, this evening, Victor Davis Hanson on the big picture, meaning the battle over the Emancipation Memorial and Washington, D.C.

Also, tonight, a Minneapolis neighborhood gets a firsthand preview of life without police. As a growing homeless encampment digs in for the long haul in a neighborhood that vowed, they would not call on the police to help them. And would it be better to play John Lennon's Imagine as the national anthem when teams get back to the field this summer? That's an idea that's on the table. We're going to talk about that tonight as well. But first, we go to our top story this evening and the importance of this moment for President Trump.

Joining me now is Kellyanne Conway, Counselor to the President. Kellyanne, thank you very much for being here.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thank you. So, you hear those editorials, a lot of that sentiment out there today that says that the President sort of needs to shift, needs to understand that the moment has changed. And to meet people where they are in the country right now. What do you say to that?

CONWAY: What I would say is that the three things are happening right now. 
We had a global pandemic that still is with us, Coronavirus cases. We have an economic crisis that the President is handling. And also, we have some social unrest, people calling for racial justice and the like. And so, this President is on top of all three in the following way.

And Joe Biden is completely absent from the conversation, which is why his poll numbers are high. People are putting onto Joe Biden exactly what they want him to be, what they expect to be. They're going to be sorely disappointed once they see him and they hear him time and again, there will be debates, there will be conventions. There will be opportunities for people to question Joe Biden about what exactly he would do on all these crises rather than just attack Donald Trump.

You can't say, raise my hand, I'm not Donald Trump. Joe Biden had 40 years to make some significant changes that would have put us in a better position to deal with all of this. And Donald Trump has done a better job in less than four years.

But let me focus on the crises. Just yesterday and today, President Trump and Vice President Pence were dealing with the economic. The job production. Just today, the President signed an EO and had a really strong event here at the White House talking about re-skilling. We want to make sure that this is an economy that works for all Americans. So, you don't have to have a postgraduate degree or a college degree to get a job.

If you have a skill set and a high school degree or a community college, you can go to work and support yourself. He has said time and again as President that he honors all types of jobs, all types of work.

Secondly, yesterday he was in Wisconsin overseeing a major Navy contract of billions of dollars. And the development, the first frigate in a while and maybe nine to be developed. That's the manufacturing basically he's brought back, and the Vice President today did the task, the Coronavirus Task Force. He did a full briefing.

MACCALLUM: Everything that you're saying, OK, wait, everything that you're saying lays out the argument for why you think that the President is doing an excellent job in these areas. But it doesn't change what we're seeing in the polls, which is a disconnect. And this is something that people are talking about a lot in the country.

And in many cases, I've had people say to me, why doesn't the President do, you know, an Oval Office address where we can sort of see his heart on these issues when it comes to racial injustice, when it comes to the fear that people have that the Coronavirus is coming back, that it is emerging in places that people hoped it would not emerge at this point.

They want a connection with the President that in many ways they feel they're not getting. And we're seeing it in a lot of this polling that we're seeing. So, regardless of the fact that you can list things that you feel make the case, the connection with what people are seeing and understanding appears to be slipping.

CONWAY: Well, the polls are about a horse race numbers. And let's be fair, these polls are precisely where I think they would be right now in that when you look at The New York Times, state race polls, they're both within a few points of each other and they're both under 50 percent by and large.

Now, if you look at a state like Wisconsin, which Donald Trump won as the first Republican to win it since 1984, last time Hillary all but ignored it. The methodology The New York Times used this time was fundamentally different. The Republican versus Democratic self-identification was one- point different last time. Now, it was plus seven Democratic.

That's important, Martha, because if you're a Democrat, you're going to be over 85, 90 percent for Joe Biden. Same thing with Republicans. So, if your sample is seven points shy of what it was last time, that's going to affect the polls. But Joe Biden is not above 50 percent for a very significant reason. He hasn't made a compelling case.

MACCALLUM: All right. So, you're saying you don't believe these polls.

CONWAY: More disruption. No, I didn't say that, Martha. I did not say that. 
I just said the polls are where I would expect them to be right now, but that we have to look at the methodology.

MACCALLUM: OK.

CONWAY: The polls are where they were when I took over as campaign manager in August 2016 in this way. Both Hillary and Trump and Biden and Trump are usually below 50 percent. And within a few points of each other in these states, I expect that.

Now, in terms of the President making a connection, you know, he's the one out there every single day. He's the most transparent, available president. 
And I think when people look at the property (ph) and hear his vision for the future, he should go out. I think he should hold peace talks at Camp David. Why not? Domestic peace talks. I'm all for the President addressing this, but he has again and again, he addressed George Floyd's murder for the first time down at NASA, it got very little coverage.

People just always wanted to be the word and the semicolon where they think it should be, where you have to look at what we're trying to do to bring the country together. Listen, we are founded on liberty and justice for all. But the words that precede that are important too, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And we're trying to focus on--

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. I think no one--

CONWAY: I think the President should present himself--

MACCALLUM: Hunger.

CONWAY: Health care president. Yes. He should present himself as a health care president. Jobs, not mobs. He should talk about that. He built an economy that allowed us to sustain all through the global pandemic that we are still dealing with in some of these states. But that's why we made the Coronavirus Task Force available today for about an hour and a half press briefing. So, we're out there.

I think Joe Biden, you've never seen a golf and exposure between two presidential nominees. We get about a total of less than an hour, a week of Joe Biden and we get Donald Trump all day long. I think Biden should be at
70 percent because you can make him whatever you wanted to be. He showed up in Philly yesterday, which basically is his home area. It's where his campaign is nationally headquartered. And you would have thought it was a Trump appearance because there were more Trump signs than there were Biden signs. The enthusiasm is for Trump and people don't want to invite more destruction and change in a system that has so much of it now.

MACCALLUM: All right. So, you know, one of the things that The Wall Street Journal points out is approval number, which is obviously different from the head-to-head polls. It says Mr. Trump refuses to acknowledge what every poll now says is true. His approval rating has fallen below 40 percent, 40 percent or below, I should say. That is George H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter territory, they're the last two presidents to be denied a second term.

As a career pollster, does the approval number give you concern when compared to those two former presidents?

CONWAY: I would expect a president's approval rating to be lower than normal when we are in so many crises in this country. That doesn't surprise me at all. People want to point the finger somewhere.

MACCALLUM: OK.

CONWAY: And they certainly are pointing at Congress. Congress's approval rating is basically half of that. And I think it's because people see they don't even show up to work. They're not working with us.

MACCALLUM: That's true.

CONWAY: Secondly, Martha, do you know what Donald Trump's approval rating was on the night he got elected president? Right. About 40 percent, maybe 41, 42. But it was right in there. So, his electoral take is a good eight, nine, 10 points higher than the approval rating. I wrote a piece 18 years ago called The Unbearable Lightness of Approval Ratings. And Donald Trump was a successful billionaire businessman. So, I wasn't talking about him. I was talking about how the more juicy, meaty measures are. Who do you trust to rebuild the economy? Who do you trust on health care? Who do you trust to get?

We now have 200 miles of wall, 200 judges. We're rebuilding the military, making sure our veterans are taken care of. And, yes, making sure that our states have the PPE they need, the ICU beds, the ventilator capacity, because we do see some spike ups--

MACCALLUM: OK. I've got to go.

CONWAY: Particularly among 25 to 34-year-olds, some of whom went back to the bar, some of whom went back to work.

MACCALLUM: And that's concerning.

CONWAY: Most of them will recover. And most of them, I'm told, won't be in the hospitals for very long. Thank God. So, we're monitoring all of this--

MACCALLUM: We hope that's the case.

CONWAY: But this will be a choice election. It will not be Trump or not Trump. It will be Biden--

MACCALLUM: It always is.

CONWAY: It will be the future with Donald Trump, it will be the past. Joe Biden represents the past of 40 years and everybody knows it. Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: I've got to go. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Kellyanne. You know, a lot of people talking about a shift that is needed in tone. We'll see if that resonates ultimately or if it matters. Kellyanne Conway, thank you. Good to see you tonight.

President Trump again calling for the arrest of vandals who tear down public property and statues. Now the FBI is joining that hunt. But is anybody getting arrested? FOX News investigates that, coming up. And that as the battle over the Emancipation Memorial in D.C. continues on. You're looking at a live shot of that statue this evening. Victor Davis Hanson here to put it all in perspective. Coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: The President tweeting this poster just a short time ago from the FBI website, seeking information on these individuals who the agency says are responsible for vandalizing the Andrew Jackson statue in Washington, D.C. this week. The crackdown coming as Attorney General Bill Barr is forming a task force dedicated to countering anti-government extremists. He says there are over 500 investigations that are underway right now in the country involving arson, looting and destruction of federal property.

But Barr says if more individuals would be held accountable if law enforcement on the local level stepped up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERTAL: We still have to try to stop it before it happens, and that's where the burden is right now on state and local and in many places, they're not stepping up to the plate there. They're not doing their job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, as those federal investigations continue, Correspondent Leland Vittert is here tonight with a closer look at who exactly has been charged so far. Leland.

LELAND VITTERT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Evening, Martha. Pick up where the Attorney General left off. We have heard reports of local police being told not to arrest rioters and looters. Right now, six dozen people face federal charges for their role in rioting and even murder related to the unrest of the past few weeks.

As we look at the scroll of names, there are few common characteristics. 
Some are white. Others black. Some older. Others younger. Among them, two lawyers, Colin Ford Maddis, 32, and Urooj Rahman (ph), 31, accused of tossing Molotov cocktails at NYPD squad cars. Steven Carillo faces charges in the murder of a sheriff's deputy and a Federal Protective Service officer. He and an accomplice are linked to the Boogaloo movement, a group bound by their belief of a coming civil war in America. Three other men from Las Vegas also have ties to the group. They range in age from 23 to 40.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALVIN SHIVERS, FBI CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Well, certainly the FBI recognizes the rights of our American citizens to exercise their First Amendment rights. However, when it crosses into illegal activity, it's something that we have to address.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VITTERT: That is Calvin Shivers from the FBI Criminal Division. His team monitors riots and looting from around the country in the FBI Strategic Information and Operations Center and then goes to work identifying those stepping over the line.

For example, the FBI used this picture of Margaret Anslem Shannon (ph) to track down her and arrest her for torching five Seattle police vehicles. 
How, you might ask, did this picture help? Well, take a very close look at the right-hand side of your screen. Specifically, agents zeroed in on the tattoos on her fingers. From there, they matched the pictures to her own social media posts.

Obviously, the FBI and law enforcement's job has made a lot harder, Martha, by the commonality and acceptability of wearing masks by those protesting and also those with more sinister intentions. But it's far from impossible. 
As one woman accused of burning police cars in Philadelphia, Martha. She found out the FBI tracked her down by matching a T-shirt she bought online from the home craft site, Etsy.

MACCALLUM: Wow. They have to get pretty creative with everybody wearing mask. Leland, thank you very much. Good to have you here tonight. So, joining me now is Victor Davis Hanson. Victor, always good to see you. 
Thanks for being here.

You know, you've written about this and you say that the rioting and the statue toppling are just a distraction from what is really going on in the country. What do you mean by that?

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTE: Well, I think there's a movement in the 244th year of our nation to redefine it, recalibrate it, reboot it, new national anthem, new national icons. Abolish Electoral College is a cultural revolution. And people, a minority, I think are not happy with the idea of freedom and liberty of the individual and protection of private property under the Constitution, they seem more of a French revolutionary idea of enforced equality of result. And that's what the stakes are.

They've hijacked the killing of George Floyd and they've created a national crisis. And this election is going to be decided by that proverbial swing voter. And they're going to do one of two things, either they're going to say, I'm tired of this. There's a red line. You're not going to touch Mount Rushmore. You're not going to touch the Washington moment. I'm not going to change the national anthem et cetera, et cetera.

And they're going to look for Donald Trump to be that emblem of their resistance, their pushback, or they're going to think he can't do it and they're going to go into a collective fetal position and say make it all go away. And maybe Biden, at least they won't be mad at Biden and the law go away.

I don't think that will happen if Biden were to be elected. But that puts a great onus on Donald Trump to be very quiet and calm and carry a club rather than to be loud and carry a twig. And he's got a lot of constraints because under our federal system, as you just heard, the local law enforcement, the state law enforcement, the attorney generals of the states, they're the ones responsible.

And they're either contextualizing the violence, appeasing it, or, in fact, in some cases supporting it because they see it has political dividends for their agendas in November. So, Trump can't force them to enforce a law unless he calls in federal troops. But he's got a military, 12 retired admirals and generals that have come out and really said some things that we've never heard about from generals, retired or not, about the Commander- in-Chief. We've had former joint chiefs. We've had the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs himself.

So, it's made it problematic. And I think Bill Barr is on the right track to show that he's trying to restore the sense of our American customs and traditions. He's going to get a federal task force. He's got to get indictments. He's got to tell the states there are federal jurisdictions within your states. If you're going to lock down all of California, maybe you shouldn't lock down Yosemite.

It's an open-air national park. It's under federal jurisdiction. Maybe I can do something there. Maybe he's going to say to certain local officials. 
You violated the federal civil rights of people within your jurisdiction. 
And that's a federal offense and that's a racketeering. And so he's got to show the nation that despite these constraints and this weaponization of this crisis, that he's going to be very calm and quiet, but he's going to carry a huge club and restore the country and the customs and traditions.

MACCALLUM: Do you think he's doing a good job of communicating that right now?

HANSON: I think he was frustrated in the last two weeks because he thought that if he threatened to use federal troops, these governors and mayors would come into line. They're not. They don't see any advantage to enforcing the law that they've sworn, oaths to uphold.

So, and then he was frustrated, I think, by the - basically the revolt of the generals if I could use that term. But now I think he's understanding that he can encourage the people that help is on the way, that he's not going to change anything. He's not going to allow any federal statute within his jurisdiction to topple. And he's going to go after the people. 
People want to see people punished. They know that if they go on to a federal monument and deface it, they're going to go to jail. They're going to be charged with a felony. They know if they decide tomorrow to go into Detroit or Baltimore and take over six city blocks, their career is ruined.

And they don't like the exemption given to people for political reasons. 
And Donald Trump's got to restore that faith and the ability of the U.S. 
government to keep the order and peace, even if it means in a very dangerous situation, contravening local and state authorities that have given up their oath of office de facto.

MACCALLUM: Wow. Well, he suggested that he would do as much if he felt that that was necessary. I want to ask you about the confusion over some of these people out in the streets in terms of who they're toppling and even who they are attacking. This one really caught my attention. When you take a look at this, Wisconsin State Senator Tim Carpenter, who said of himself that he is a gay, progressive Democratic senator who he says I'm on their side, you know, peaceful protest.

These two individuals, I think they're both women. It's hard to tell in the video attacked him and beat him because he was using his phone to take a picture. He said they kicked him in the head, neck, and ribs. He may have a concussion and was socked in the left eye is a little blurry because he was taking a picture of them in the street. What is going on with the mission and the understanding of what some of these individuals are doing.

HANSON: Whether it's the logic of the mob and we've seen it with the French Revolution. We've seen it with a cultural revolution in China. Under that veneer of political and social activism is criminality. And you're bringing everybody in because they think there's no deterrence and no consequences and they're ignorant.

So, we saw that after Charlottesville, where they tore down a statue of General Lee and World War II, a different individual than Robert E. Lee. 
And they said, well, Lee is the same name. What does it matter? They don't
- if you ask any of these demonstrators, what's the battle of Shiloh? Is it different than the Battle of Gettysburg or what's midway? You've written about Iwo Jima; they have no idea. Is that a referendum or an illustration of the education system K through 12 and - yes, they're ignorant and they're arrogant. That's a fatal combination.

MACCALLUM: It's an indictment of our educational system. K through 12. 
You're absolutely right. I just want to put this Lincoln quote up on the screen with regard to the Emancipation Proclamation. And Lincoln said this about the night that he signed the Emancipation Proclamation, not in front of cameras. Obviously, they weren't there. Not in front of anyone just upstairs at the White House.

He said, I never in my life felt more certain that I was doing right than I do in signing this paper. If my name goes into history, it will be for this act and for my - and my whole soul is in it. I mean, I just wish that some of the people who were talking about taking down this statue would re-read that quote.

HANSON: I do, too. 600,000 Americans lost their lives in the struggle to eliminate slavery. And I hope their lives were not lost in vain on the union's side because we've honored them all these years. And suddenly to equate - Abraham Lincoln with Robert E. Lee is a crime. And same thing with Washington and Jefferson. I'm not trying to disparage Lee, but I'm just thinking that this mob frenzy that says that any white male of the past is morally inferior to us and the President is absurd.

And we all, according to our station, Martha, have to speak out against it, because that's the only thing that will stop a cultural revolution. Once people understand that, we're going - We, the people are going to fight back. The bullies will dissipate and then we'll have a return to sanity. 
But right now, we're in the throes of madness and we need brave people to stand up and take the consequences. And I think they will. I hope so.

MACCALLUM: I hope so, too. Victor Davis Hanson, as always, good to have you here, sir. Thank you so much.

HANSON: Thank you for having me.

MACCALLUM: So, this is the scene in a Minneapolis neighborhood where residents vowed that they would not call the police because they didn't want to put anyone in danger after George Floyd's death. So, now they're facing some new problems as hundreds of people have set up camp in their park and they're starting to have some issues. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take off your uniform. Are you afraid of police? Just because I'm white and I haven't experienced racism myself doesn't mean I can't fight for justice. They were part of the system. They are part of the problem. Just because they are black doesn't mean they are not a part of the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: As one woman yells at officers while they stand duty. On the other side of your screen is a scene after which a New York police officer had to turn himself in for the chokehold that was employed there. These two scenes are just some of the heartbreaking images nationwide that show the deepening divide.

My next guest work towards a solution to bridge this gap with their new initiative, police to peace, rebranding themselves as, "peace officers." 
Tighe O'Meara, police chief of Ashland, Oregon, and Jim Bueermann is the police chief of Redlands, California and a retired president of the police foundation. Ty, Jim, thank you very much to you both for being here tonight.

You know, I just wonder, when you look at that situation of the woman yelling in the face of the police officers, who happen to be black officers in that situation, she's telling them that they don't understand, you know, the issues that she's fighting for. Tighe, what goes through your mind?

TIGHE O'MEARA, POLICE CHIEF, ASHLAND, OREGON: I can actually see the image but I could hear the audio. And what goes through my mind is that there is a disconnect between American law enforcement and the communities we serve, especially communities of color.

And the police to peace movement can be one of the things that addresses that divide. It's a declaration of intent that my police department, for example, in Ashland, Oregon, we want to be good community partners. We want to foster mutual understanding, we want to embrace national best practices and even invent a new national best practice, as I'm proud to say we've done with our sex assault reporting program.

So, about 10 months ago, I was encouraged to deploy the peace officer decals because I do see that as one piece, not the whole puzzle, but one piece of the puzzle to help bridge that gap between the divide between American law enforcement and American community.

MACCALLUM: Yes. So, peace officer is sort of a label that's put on the side of a lot of these police vehicles in the programs that you both work in to just sort of send that literal message to begin to change the way that people look at police.

Jim, you know, I wonder what you think about the fact that they have had such difficulty on Capitol Hill, passing anything that would get close to police reform on the federal level. Do you think that's even necessary? Or do you think programs like yours and change at the local level is may be a bit more hands-on and effectual?

JIM BUEERMANN, FORMER PRESIDENT, NATIONAL POLICE FOUNDATION: First of all, to be clear, I'm the retired chief of the Redlands Police Department, I'm not the current chief. And I do believe that we need some federal --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, thank you for pointing that out.

BUEERMANN: Sure, and I do think we need some federal involvement in policing on this level. There's a concept called the national coherence about policing that I think is incredibly important because we see that there are 50 different styles of policing at the state -- when you thing about state legislatures who are primarily responsible for setting legislation around policing but then there is 18,000 police departments, so you have almost 18,000 different ways of doing things.

In this day and age, where we all have smartphones, social media, the internet, means that visual images, video of police community interaction go viral almost in real time, means that something that happens on the east coast has implications for police department and communities on the west coast.

So, I think it is now time for us to be talking about not only redefining what we mean about policing or at least aspects of it, this idea of peace officers.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BUEERMANN: That, by the way, in California is what the legal term for police officers are, but also trying to establish something so that policing looks generally the same regardless of what part of the country you're in.

MACCALLUM: OK. Tighe, one more question for you before we go. Is it working? Is the crime lower in the places where you put this in place?

O'MEARA: I think it's working. I think that our declaration of our intention it sends the right message. I think that more than anything it's intended to build legitimacy of the police in the eyes of the community, and there are of course some people that are never going to listen to any attempt that I or any other chief makes to build legitimacy. And I think there are other people that are open to it.

And so, I do think it's a positive program. Again, I think it's a good declaration. We want to be more than reactive. We want to be more than just enforcers of the law. The word police still appear on our police cars. And the way that I often phrase it is policing is what we do and peace officer is how we try to do it.

MACCALLUM: All right. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Chief, thank you. Jim Bueermann, thank you for being here as well.

BUEERMANN: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, tonight with the city of -- thank you, guys very much. Thank you, gentlemen. The city of Minneapolis is one step closer to dismantling their police force. One neighborhood is getting a preview of what that might look like as a tent city grows in the heart of their town and they are starting to have some problematic issues with drug dealers and prostitution in some cases. We'll take you there next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: In one Minneapolis neighborhood just blocks away from where George Floyd was killed, the residents are experimenting with the new informal policy not to call the police on people who break the law. But their commitment was almost immediately challenged when a homeless encampment of about 300 people decided to move into the local park where their children often play.

So, this comes as the Minneapolis City Council voted unanimously to change the city charter and to allow the dismantling of their police department.

Here with a look at what is happening on the ground there as Kyle Hooten, a reporter for the Daily Caller and work with Alpha News contributor, on getting some of this footage. Kyle, good to have you here tonight. What's your take away from what you saw there?

KYLE HOOTEN, ALPHA NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, if you look at just the official police report of what's happening in Powderhorn Park the situation would appear rather peaceful. However, that appears to be because the community has vowed not to call the police.

Yesterday, I spoke with several members of the community who told me that they're relying on so-called community mediators and members of the American Indian movement and to fill the role of police in their neighborhood as enlarge homeless encampments is established in the park side of the community.

MACCALLUM: So, I read that there were instances of suspected prostitution going on, that people had concerns about residents near the area and also concerns that drug dealers were driving into the area to do transactions there near this residential neighborhood. Are those -- are those accounts true from what you can tell?

HOOTEN: Well, it appeared to me that around the periphery of the park there's group of individuals that weren't residents of the camp, they weren't members of the community and they weren't volunteers. These individuals drove some very nice SUVs and it did appear though that they were selling drugs to the residence of the camp, yes.

MACCALLUM: So, the other thing that seems to be happening is that people in the area who are trying not to call the police, there is one horrific story of a man who says that two boys tried to steal his car and he gave them the house keys by mistake, and you know, they ran off and he said, he felt terrible that he called the police because then he was worried that he had put their lives in danger. And I think to a lot of people who listen to that, they just can't understand, you know, that story at all.

HOOTEN: Yes. So, when I was walking around the Powderhorn Park area I saw a woman, a community member, a resident of the neighborhood not in the encampment, she was out (Inaudible) and she had a moment to speak, and in that conversation I heard her tell me that she would feel guilty if she called the police because she feels that the individuals in the park as a result of systematic racism are in danger if they interact with the cops.

And that is why instead of having Minneapolis law enforcement patrolling the area, I was seeing vans marked with fame of other people that were sort of masquerading as law enforcement officers because the community genuinely believes that calling the police would put those campers in danger.

MACCALLUM: And this is a piece of video they did not want you video doing any video in this area. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No photos or videos without authorization.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are people's homes.

HOOTEN: How do I get authorized? How would I get authorized?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You come ask for permission, you need to get out of your car and come ask for permission.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this difficult for you to understand? Do you want to come to talk?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: So, you know, that video looks pretty -- pretty calm, pretty peaceful. You know, that's my take away when I watch it.

HOOTEN: So, what happened there is as soon as I got on the ground I got out of my vehicle, I started walking towards of this encampment. I was approached by a group of three individuals who told me that they were volunteers. That the organization is coordinating the effort there at Powderhorn Park.

They told me that I was not allowed to film and I was not allowed to take any photographs. Of course, I proceed to do so anyway, but then I was approached in several other times both on and off camera by people who told me that it was not acceptable to document what was going on.

I did ask an individual why that was and she said it's because she's afraid that the world will misunderstand what's happening in Powderhorn Park.

MACCALLUM: OK. Well, as long as people are OK with it in their neighborhood, you know, they're going to continue to live there and move I think closer to a situation where there is no police force in that part of Minneapolis and we'll see what the impact is on the neighborhood and on the neighborhoods surrounding as time goes by.

Thanks. Thanks, Kyle. Good to have you back. Kyle Hooten.

So, with lots of things that were never questioned now being questioned every day, is the "Star-Spangled Banner" the next casualty? That is next.

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MACCALLUM: This rendition of the national anthem is going viral. A Portland State University student singing for a virtual graduation got an assist from a passerby who was also an opera singer and it makes for a beautiful, unifying rendition of that song.

And it comes with a growing chorus now suggesting that the "Star-Spangled Banner" should be replaced. A week ago, we saw a statue of the song's author, Francis Scott Key, torn down in San Francisco with protesters noting that Key was a slave owner.

Now a semi pro soccer team the Tulsa athletics say that they will no longer play the anthem before matches, opting for this land is your land instead. 
Others suggest America the beautiful or even John Lennon's "Imagine" should be the national anthem to which Rich Lowry wrote today, when "Imagine" is the national anthem is when I moved to Canada.

Joining me now is Jack Brewer former Minnesota Vikings football player now CEO of the Brewer Group, and David Webb, SiriusXM patriotic host, Fox Nation host and Fox News contributor. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here.

Jack, let me start with you, if I may. We all have watched and listened and had chills when the "Star-Spangled Banner" starts to play at, you know, big moments in sports and big moments in history. Why -- you know, and we understand that when you dig into some of the words of the later verses that we -- I had never heard, you know, until you really look at them, do you think that it should still be replaced?

JACK BREWER, CEO, THE BREWER GROUP INC.: You know, you mentioned standing before the flag. Some of my greatest memories are playing for the National Football League before those big games and hearing that national anthem, and I did have chills going down my back. But I still don't think that takes away or makes us not take this moment to discuss the real root of the national anthem.

I mean, to say no refuge and say our Harlem or slave, I mean, those are some deep words. And so, I think, you know, it's about the person who wrote the national anthem.

Do I think we need to go out and make all these changes? No, I think these things need to be voted upon. I don't agree with going out and tearing things down and using violence. I think this is a time for our nation to come to God, to pray together.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BREWER: This is a call to repent. You see why all these issues continue to come up, whether it's the statue, whether it's the national anthem. God is telling this nation right now to have a conversation and start repenting from the things of the past so that we can truly come together as one blood under Christ.

MACCALLUM: David, what do you think?

DAVID WEBB, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, it's a ridiculous thought that they would want to replace the national anthem. Written at a time when we were fighting against the British empire, when we were fighting for freedom, at a time in our country when there are other struggles for freedom. Freedom from slavery, when the fact is that we as a country were beginning to grow into our, if you will, our teenage years.

All of this is part of our history. What Francis Scott Key wrote was also part of a promise of America and the rest of those verses, which I have read, which many Americans need to now read reflect a time and circumstance but also a chance for freedom.

When you look at what they want to replace it with, it's simply a song that sounds good and feels good rather than a song that reflects who we are as a country and what we battle for. The battle for freedom is and always fought at every time about every issue. We fought to free ourselves from the British. We had a Declaration of Independence and a promise of a nation of free people.

And we, as one people evolved to where we were today, we overcame colonial slavery, we overcame segregation. Look at women's rights, look at all the things we've done to evolve and understand that for those out there that are more in the neo-Marxist view of things, one thing you want to do is you want to erase history.

If you erase history you can rewrite history for the next generation and in America I prefer --

MACCALLUM: OK.

WEBB: -- that we maintain our history so that we can teach all aspects of it, good and bad and that we can learn from it and grow even more.

MACCALLUM: All right. You know, one of the suggestions is "America the Beautiful." And you know, I wonder if the next conversation, Jack, if that is on the table is, you know, are we allowed to say God shed his grace on thee? And it just opens that, you know, it opens all of these questions. 
And I just wonder if the common acceptance of what the song means, the "Star-Spangled Banner," you know, has taken on its own meaning for our own time and can transcend. Last thought.

BREWER: Yes, I think so, you know. This is the cancel culture and I agree with a lot of what David said but I think the cancel culture is front and center right now. We're not going to God, were going to man-made rules and going to feelings and I think this is a reflection of our leaders, our leaders across America who are actually seeking out to appease versus seeking out to lead.

These are issues that can be discussed and people can have these conversations but we can't push out perspectives and we cannot make people feel like they can't discuss race, that they can't discuss the history of our nation.

And so, I think it's very important that we take these times right now to wrap around our bibles as Christians, as a Christian nation and start to get back to God.

MACCALLUM: Jack Brewer, thank you very much. David Webb, thank you very much. Good to see both, gentlemen. Have a good weekend. We're going to take a quick break. More of The Story after this.

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MACCALLUM: That is "The Story" of Friday, June the 26th, 2020. But as always, "The Story" continues, so we will be back here on Monday and we will see you at seven o'clock.

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