Keane: We had policy disagreements and personality conflicts between Trump and Bolton

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Keane: We had policy disagreements and personality conflicts between Trump and Bolton

Fox News senior strategic analyst Gen. Jack Keane on the plan to fill John Bolton's NSA role, potential Iran talks.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," September 11, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. For a moment tonight, let's go back to the World Series in 2001. The date was October 30 and America was getting back up on its feet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: We are now on feet fighting to defend our freedom and our way of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Well, George Bush said -- President George Bush, that he had never felt the roar of a crowd go through him at any political rally, any election, any convention, the way that he felt it on that night in New York back in October of 2001.

But a lot of things have changed since that day. We have gone from that rush of patriotism to these recent numbers. The number of people who say that they are "extremely proud to be American" is at its lowest level since that time.

And one member of Congress -- just one individual member was widely criticized for reducing what happened on September 11th to the day that "some people did something."

Today, Nicholas Harris Jr. was one of many who spoke about their loved ones who were killed that day. He lost his mother Francis in the September 11th attacks, and he responded directly with his t-shirt and his words to Congresswoman Omar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLAS HARRIS, SON OF 9/11 VICTIM: Some people did something. On that day, 19 Islamic terrorists, members of al-Qaeda, killed over 3,000 people and caused billions and dollars of economic damage. Is that clear? That's what some people did. Got that now?

We are here today, Congresswoman, to tell you and the Squad, just who did what to whom. Show respect in honoring them, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, with all of this put together, where are we heading as a nation now that we are 18 years beyond September 11th?

Karl Rove was right by President Bush's side on that day in 2001. He's joined tonight by Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who was in high school on September 11th.

But in who that is -- in whom the desire to become a Navy SEAL deepened and took root in him on that day. He went on to serve in both of the wars that followed. Gentlemen, thank you very much. It's great to have both of you with us tonight.

Karl, when you look at that dramatic contrast in those numbers of patriotism, and you know, I can't watch that video of President Bush on the mound without getting that chill. It makes -- you know, the hair stand up on my arms when I watch that still today, 18 years later.

Where are we headed based on all of this?

KARL ROVE, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, like you, that was an extraordinary moment. I think that was an extraordinary moment. Remember, he's wearing like a flak jacket underneath his -- underneath his windbreaker.

Since we're carrying 40 pounds of weight on him, Secret Service didn't want him to go out there and do that, and then, he threw the strike. When he came back to the Owner's Box, he walked in the door with -- I have to admit a little bit of a swagger and said, I gave him the heat.

Now, now, that it wasn't a -- that was an extraordinary moment. And we've drifted away from it. And the only way we're going to come back to it is to stop beating ourselves up as a country and find a way to reach across the partisan, and regional, and other dividing lines in our country, and recognize that people with whom we disagree are not our enemies, but our fellow countrymen. And find a way to restore some level of civility to our political and civic discourse in this country.

Social media has not helped that process, the increasing lack of trust and the media has not helped that process. But ultimately, it's going to be solved by two things, leadership that calls upon the better angels of our natures that James Mattis have said. And the ordinary good common sense in the American people reasserting itself.

MACCALLUM: Dan Crenshaw, your thoughts.

REP. DAN CRENSHAW, R-TX: Oh, and I agree with everything, Karl said. It's unfortunate that, that we've gotten to this point, right? It -- you know, years ago, it didn't matter what side of the aisle are you on, you were still proud of your country. And that started the change over time.

You know, and I think, as Americans, too many people have started to see the imperfections of America and our imperfections in foreign policy as a sign that America is inherently bad, in the -- you should no longer be proud of your country.

And I fundamentally disagree with that notion. It -- we should not need a 9/11 to bring us together. We shouldn't need the anniversary to bring us together. We should still be proud of our country, were the greatest country that has ever lived, we are responsible for the most prosperity and human good that has ever been created. And we should be proud of that fact and talk about it more.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I want to put up a couple of things on the screen. This is Chris Pratt, the famous actor in a t-shirt that says, "Don't tread on me." He was slammed by some on social media, which you mentioned, which I think is behind a lot of the evils that tear us apart these days, unfortunately, for just wearing that t-shirt.

Then, you've got the -- you know, Nike Betsy Ross flag sneaker, which had to be pulled instantly because it had an American flag on the back of it that Colin Kaepernick, believed was racist and oppressive.

I mean, Karl, it's a very -- it's a very uphill battle. And I'm not sure where the leadership comes from that you're talking about that begins to make a difference in this kind of environment.

ROVE: Yes. Well, the leadership starts with us. And I think Dan is absolutely right about the necessity of us talking about the great -- greatness of America. There is an element in our country that really does want to run down America. That really does say things like somebody who did something, and the symbol of our American independence is a symbol of racism.

And what we need to do is, to be -- is to express pride in America and its role in the world. I happen to be at a conference recently, a very diverse group. Small business people, health care professionals, hospital people, insurance people, and I got a question that allowed me to sort of opine about one area in which were criticized, climate.

Where I said, America is the only major industrialized country in the world that's reducing the absolute level of greenhouse gas emissions. And I have to admit, I got carried away and said, "I'm sick and tired of people running down our country when our country is providing such an example of leadership, and the crowd went wild.

Now, that wasn't my oratory, that's the fundamental sense that's in the heart of most Americans, our country is a great country and we need to stand up for him.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, I remember, 9/11, there were flags everywhere for -- you know, I don't know for how long. You know, a year.

ROVE: Months.

MACCALLUM: More than that.

ROVE: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Months, perhaps, people had them on their cars, everywhere. Now, the flag has become this sort of -- it's a little bit weaponized in the debate that's going on right now, Dan. It's sort of seen as -- you know, I -- for some people, it seeing us like a symbol of President Trump, a symbol that you're a conservative, a Republican. And it really -- I mean, that -- that's something that, that is sad for the country.

I mean, it clearly is something that we should all be able to get behind regardless of our political stripes.

CRENSHAW: Right. And you know, there's not that many things that bring us together as Americans. There's not that many things that make us Americans. OK, it's not the color of our skin, it's not our religion. It's not ethnicity. It's not even necessarily a geographic area that's changed over time too. Right?

It is -- it is an understanding that we have certain ideas in our founding that brought us together. That this idea that all men are created equal. This idea that government is there to protect your inalienable rights. OK?

And that's what makes us American. It is not different colors of skin, it is the red white and blue. It is things like the national anthem, it is things like the Pledge of Allegiance. It is our American flag.

Those are the symbols and ideas that bring us together. And we have to remind ourselves of that. We're in a culture war right now, as you've been indicating, and this is new. And we have to confront it.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

CRENSHAW: And we have to talk about why America is good and why we should be proud of our country.

MACCALLUM: And we need to do it in our schools too. I mean, there are schools where -- you know, wearing a flag, or you know having a flag day is sort of considered a controversial subject, which I just think is so reprehensible. And we need to get past all of that garbage, honestly.

Thank you very much, you guys, Karl --

(CROSSTALK)

ROVE: Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Final thought, sure.

ROVE: Martha, we shouldn't let this moment pass without thanking Dan Crenshaw as the greatest generation that saved the world in World War II. Dan represents the best of the 9/11 generation that rose up to fight Islamic terrorism.

MACCALLUM: Yes, that's well put. And thank you for saying that.

CRENSHAW: Thank you, Karl. Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: And thank you for your Dan Crenshaw and all the other men and women who were inspired after 9/11 to sacrifice so much to keep our country safe. Very good point. Thank you very much, Karl.

So, my next guest, a former FBI agent who specialized in fighting terrorism in the days after 9/11. He says that the attacks transformed the FBI into the most secretive domestic intelligence agency the country has ever seen.

He is the author of the new book, Disrupt Discredit and Divide: How the new FBI damages democracy. Michael German joins me once again. He's been on the show in the past and we welcome him back here tonight.

Michael, good to see you tonight.

MICHAEL GERMAN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: Thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: So, I mean, obviously, that -- that's a pretty blockbuster headline, how the FBI damages our security and our condition here in the United States. What do you mean by that?

GERMAN: Well, it -- you know, our jingoism isn't patriotism. And it's important for people who care about our country to acknowledge where the government is erring and to urge the government to correct itself.

And when you have an institution that has enormous powers and, in fact, has been given even more power since 9/11, it's very important not just for our privacy in our civil liberties, but for our security that, that organization is operating effectively. And not using those powers in a way that undermine the strength of our democratic government which is the voice of the people that the ability to protest our government, the ability to organize and associate in a way that is free from government interference.

And the FBI has renewed this theory of terrorist radicalization that suggests that those First Amendment activities speech, belief, association, are actually indicators of future violence.

So, they have the ability now because of the way their guidelines have been lowered to go after and investigate people and use very intrusive tools against people they have no objective basis for believing they've done anything wrong. And that opens the door to all kinds of violence.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, I know -- you know, that you have been very concerned about data collection, and the liberties that are lost in some of these programs, and you think that they have been able to go too far.

Let me ask you this. What do you think represents the biggest threat to our safety as somebody who committed so much of your life and time and effort to keeping us safe after 9/11?

GERMAN: There are a number of different threats. We're a very safe country, and that's one of the things that we have to understand, and empowering these agencies to have a role in our democratic processes. And usually, when I talk about these issues, I worry about marginalized communities. Communities that don't have a lot of power, who are trying to just get their essential civil rights.

But here we have a case where during the presidential election, the FBI was investigating both candidate's campaigns and had an ability to influence the election of our president. And, of course, in the aftermath of that had the ability to undermine certain things the administration wanted to do.

So, do we really want to have an institution that, that can do that kind of thing based on no actual evidence of wrongdoing? We need to have stronger guidelines to make sure that the FBI is focused specifically on fighting illegal activity rather than policing belief.

MACCALLUM: I know, yes, you dedicate a big chunk of your life to the FBI, and I know, you care about the institution, and you want it to be efficient for the American people and you want it to not have barriers that are lower to the point where they can venture into areas that they shouldn't be.

And thank you very much, Mike German. Great to have you back again tonight.

GERMAN: Thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up next. Andrew Pollack's daughter, Meadow was killed at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in what he calls the most avoidable mass murder in history.

But he has a warning for you tonight about the breakdown of discipline policy in American schools as kids head back. What he says you need to know as a responsible parent and American, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Last year, 17 innocent lives were lost in the shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglass High School in Parkland, Florida. Now, Andrew Pollock who lost his daughter Meadow that day calls it the most avoidable mass murder in American history.

Pollack says the movement toward anti-discipline and leniency for troubled students and lack of arrests for students that was forged under the Obama administration presents a real threat to our students' safety across the country and enabled Meadows killer to slip through the cracks.

In moments, Andrew Pollack joins me here live in the studio, but first Chief Breaking News Correspondent Trace Gallagher with the back story tonight. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, CHIEF BREAKING NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Martha, let's begin with Andrew Pollock's conclusion which is that social justice policies crafted to address bigotry and inequity have kept police from arresting and disciplining kids especially disturbed kids.

And Pollack lays out a compelling narrative to support his claim saying Broward County Schools knew full well that Nikolas Cruz was obsessed with guns and murder, and they knew years before he opened fire on his fellow classmates. In fact, in middle school, classmates say Cruz's torture and killing of animals became a source of pride.

One student remembers Cruz offering to show videos of him skinning animals. Records indicate that Nikolas Cruz was suspended from middle school multiple times a week, but despite his behavior, expelling him was against school policy.

A middle school teacher gave this assessment quoting, I feel strongly that Nicholas is a danger to the students and faculty at this school. I do not feel that he understands the difference between his violent video games and reality.

And the middle school vice-principal once e-mail teachers to inform them that if Cruz "needs to leave the class to use the restroom, go to the clinic or any other reason, please notify the front office and wait for a security escort." Cruz was eventually sent to a school for children with severe behavioral problems and yet inexplicably the district moved him to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High.

And despite threatening students bringing dead animals to school, using racial slurs and claiming he was suicidal, Cruz was never arrested or recommended for mental health evaluations. Pollock who refers to Cruz only by his court case number writes "18-1958 was never going to be a model citizen but it truly took a village to raise him into a school shooter. I can't even say he killed my daughter. They killed my daughter."

Pollack goes on to say, he thought getting answers about why the school massacre happened would help him come to terms with his daughter's death. It didn't. But he hopes it will "keep your kids safe." Martha?

MACCALLUM: Absolutely incredible. Trace, thank you very much. Joining me now, Andy Pollack, father of Parkland shooting victim Meadow Pollack and the author of this book Why Meadow Died.

Andy, this infuriates me and this did not happen to my child. I -- you know, we have so much debate over guns in this country but it masks what is actually going on which is the fact that public schools do not have any power to remove a student who is clearly presenting a danger.

ANDREW POLLACK, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM MEADOW POLLACK: Yes. And I -- you know, it kills me even looking at what they did.

MACCALLUM: I'm sure it does.

POLLACK: It really hurts me. And I have to live with that guilt for the rest of my life of not knowing what was going on in that school, that there was someone so dangerous, Martha, that they had to frisk him every morning and then they put him in JROTC where they taught him how to shoot, where you see the records from middle school he was infatuated with guns and he wanted to kill. "I want to kill" in his records and they put him in the school and they didn't notify any parents.

MACCALLUM: I mean, he even says at one point -- one of the teachers says, you know, you're a good boy, trying to encourage him towards good behavior. He says no, I'm not. I'm a bad boy and I want to kill people. I mean -- so you -- can you quickly explain why you think this goes back to a policy that started in the Obama administration?

POLLACK: Well, it started with -- well, he was -- he was just a psychopath and he was labeled special needs, but he didn't just have a learning disorder, he had -- he was a sociopath and they just had to give him more rights than any other child in the school.

So instead of you know giving the kids more rights and putting him in a different school, they had the mainstream him and that's a big problem. It's not just going on in Broward, Martha, that's the problem. They mainstream these type of kids who were sick where they should be taken care of but not on the backs of the environment -- endangering the environment of kids that just want to go and learn.

So -- and that's going on across the country these policies, and the discipline policies going on across the country.

MACCALLUM: And they discourage arrests for people who are underage. Do not arrest this person. Don't put them in a juvenile delinquent facility. Why?

POLLACK: Well, in Broward County, when Robert Runcie, this incompetent Robert Runcie superintendent, he brought those policies to Broward where it started, and kids were allowed up to four misdemeanors per school year. Could you imagine that, without ever getting arrested or meeting the judicial system?

And parents don't know about this you know. And the first thing that ever happens with the mass shooting with the media is they blame the gun and --

MACCALLUM: There's so many layers of blame.

POLLACK: And I had for my daughter -- I had to uncover every single stone and fact to find out what went wrong.

MACCALLUM: Before I let you go, Andy, first of all, everyone needs to read this book Why Meadow Died. Everyone, every parent, every grandparent needs to read this book. Give parents one thing they can do to make their child safer. Who should they talk to you to find out what kind of time bomb is in their classroom?

POLLACK: Well, first, I want them to read my book.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

POLLACK: Because it's going to lay it all out to them, Why Meadow Died.

MACCALLUM: It's a manual as you said to me.

POLLACK: It's a manual for parents. You have no excuse if you don't read this book. But go to the school -- after school -- you know, during the school, after you dropped your child off, and see how the securities at the school. Then talk to an officer at the school or one of the teachers, you know, and confide in them, and ask them about these policies.

But security is only half of that. These policies, why put your kid in a terrible environment? It's up to the parents and the grandparents to put their kids in an environment. They have no excuse.

MACCALLUM: Andy Pollack, thank you very much. I encourage everybody to read this book. And we also just have a podcast which is going to be released in my podcast which is a longer version that gives you more information on what you need to know here. So Andrew, thank you very much. Good to see you as always.

POLLACK: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Be well. Coming up next, will the departure of John Bolton make America safe or less safe? General Jack Keane weighs in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: But we were set back very badly when John Bolton talked about the Libyan model and he made a mistake. And as soon as he mentioned that, the Libyan model, what a disaster. Take a look at what happened to Gaddafi with the Libyan model. And he's using that to make a deal with North Korea?

And I don't blame Kim Jong-un for what he said after that, and he wanted nothing to do with John Bolton. And that's not a question of being tough, that's a question of being not smart to say something like that.

MACCALLUM: So with John Bolton out, where does the White House go from here? Last night we heard there could be five candidates in the running for National Security Adviser, but tonight there are some reports that the President may also be considering the so-called Kissinger model.

Gillian Turner live in Washington with her exclusive new details on this this evening. Good evening, Gillian.

GILLIAN TURNER, CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. So the race is on full speed for President Trump to make a Bolton replacement. Multiple sources familiar with internal White House deliberations tell Fox News President Trump has given serious consideration to, as you mentioned, the Kissinger model. That would be having Secretary of State Mike Pompeo serve as Secretary of State and National Security Advisor.

Presidents Nixon and Ford both had Henry Kissinger served in the dual headed role. Now one former senior Trump administration official says, based on how the national security policy process works right now, this would be an optimal solution.

Another source tonight though says, it's unlikely Pompeo would do both jobs.

President Trump still zeroed in on this issue. In the Oval Office earlier today, he said his policy differences with Bolton went much deeper than this past weekend's cancelled meeting with the Taliban. And he criticized Bolton for not playing well with others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He sat right in that chair and I told him, John, if too many people, you're not getting along with people, and a lot of us, including me, disagree with some of your tactics and some of your ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things move fast at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. And President Trump, as you know, likes to keep his options open.

So, even as he mulls over Pompeo doing both these jobs the president's inner circle is maintaining a list of about five or so potential candidates to take over Bolton's job, Martha, should he decide to keep the status quo.

MACCALLUM: Jillian (Ph), thank you very much.

Joining me now, General Jack Keane, Fox News senior strategic analyst and chairman of the Institute for the Study of War. General, good to have you here tonight.

First, your thought on that on the Kissinger model. Is that something that you would recommend for the secretary of state to do both jobs?

JACK KEANE, SENIOR STRATEGIC ANALYST: Well, I won't recommend it. But I certainly understand why. I think, you know, here we got a president closing in on three years. And, there's been a fair amount of disruption in terms of national security. Not so much the policies but the development on those policies and the personalities involved in doing that.

The president now clearly is no longer a journeyman in foreign policy and national security. He's in the job. He knows where he wants America to go, and I think he wants us smooth sailing ship around him. He wants to minimize the disruptions. And that's probably at the heart of this thing.

You know I gave advice once to the administration on something very similar to that. I said listen, national security and foreign policy is not like domestic policy. When you make decision it's very difficult to reverse it and has consequences, the stakes are very high.

Therefore, pick people who know and have expertise and knowledge you may not have. But also, and I said, Martha, pick people you like because the stress is significant. You're going to spend a lot of time around them and you like someone who has knowledge to help you, the working relationship is so much better.

Here I think we had policy disagreements as well as personality conflicts and I think both people, the president and John Bolton came to the same conclusion he probably needs to get somebody else.

MACCALLUM: So, I guess one of the biggest questions here going forward, general, is what does it mean for policy? The president has expressed an interest in discussions with Rouhani. Secretary of State Pompeo said that it's possible. He said sure. You know, it's possible that they could sit down even later this month at the end of September when they are at the U.N.

What does it indicate to you about the direction that the president wants to go with all of these big issues, dialogue lifting sanctions that of in the like?

KEANE: Well, first of all there's absolutely no doubt. Anybody who spends any time whatsoever with this president knows that he is driving foreign policy and national security decision-making and policymaking in this country. Unequivocally so.

That being the case, he's also somewhat unconventional in the degree that he wants to exercise personal diplomacy particularly with our adversaries. He trusts his own instincts and judgments about that. And he wants to try that, even though others have failed at doing just that. And that's not going to change.

So, I think what we have to help the president do is structure that as best as possible to try to put in place the necessary staff work that's required to set the president up for success in those kinds of meetings.

But they are going to continue. I don't believe the nation has the least bit of risk talking to Rouhani or another one of our adversaries, frankly because the president is going in with a firm position --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

KEANE: -- on what the United States stands for and what is the desired outcome from these negotiations.

MACCALLUM: So, before I let you go, you know, there's a line of thinking that the Wall Street Journal wrote about it today that said that the country is less safe with John Bolton not in the room. You know, that he was a voice -- obviously he's a hard line, and his thoughts added to the mix was keeping us safer. What do you say to that?

KEANE: I don't buy that. I don't think the national security adviser by himself is making the country necessarily less safe or stronger. I think it's a collection of that team that we have obviously a very confident military, we have a strong Central Intelligence Agency.

I believe we have one of the best chief diplomats in Secretary Pompeo that we've had in years. So that's a strong team around the president. And the president himself now has three years of experience under his belt.

You put that together, and that's what's keeping America safe. No one person by themselves is doing that. So, that's some hand-wringing I believe in terms of what took place here. And I agree with a lot of the policies that John Bolton had. Let me just declare that. But nonetheless in of himself, I don't believe for a fact that America is any less safe. And I don't think John would believe that either.

MACCALLUM: All right. General, thank you very much. General Jack Keane good to see you tonight, sir.

KEANE: Yes. Good talking to you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You bet. Same to you. All right. Wednesdays with Watters is still ahead tonight. Plus, a story exclusive with the woman who brought down Dr. Larry Nassar by being the very first woman to come forward about his sexual abuse. Her new book is out today, it is called, "What is a Girl Worth."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Former gymnast Rachel Denhollander was 15 when Larry Nassar's office said that she should wear loose shorts to her first exam with the so-called doctor who was famous for his work with the U.S. Gymnastics team.

More than ten years later she became the first woman to come forward and tell her story about what he was actually doing in the examining room. She unlocked Pandora's Box on one of the most egregious sexual abuse scandals in the history of this country, paving the way for more than 150 other survivors to come forward.

Rachel is here in moments, but first, chief breaking news correspondent Trace Gallagher has the back-story tonight. Trace?

GALLAGHER: Martha, Rachel Denhollander says in the gymnastics world Dr. Larry Nassar was known as the best of the best. And because she was having severe pain in her wrist and back, she was hopeful that Nassar would see her.

She also realized it might be a long wait. Instead, two weeks later she got in. And as the nurse walked her down the hallway toward the exam room, she remembers almost squealing with excitement at seeing photos of the magnificent seven, the 96 women's gold medal team.

And yet, during her first appointment with Nassar, Rachel Denhollander says she was sexually abused and her mom was in the room. But because Nassar was so skilled her mother didn't notice.

Denhollander says she remembers thinking, quote, "there's no way that someone hasn't described to Michigan State or USA Gymnastics what Larry is doing. If there's any questions about his treatment, surely someone would do something."

But Denhollander also says she learned that if you can't prove it, don't speak up. Believing it would cost her everything. Eventually she was the first of more than 150 to speak up, and here she is giving her victim impact statement at Nassar sentencing. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL DENHOLLANDER, AUTHOR, WHAT IS A GIRL WORTH: This is what it looks like when people in authority refuse to listen, put friendships in front of the truth, fail to create or enforce proper policy and fail to hold enablers accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: USA Gymnastics now says its process for addressing reports of sexual misconduct are stronger and better defined. Michigan State says it's fully committed to accepting responsibility of change and accountability.

But Denhollander says she absolutely does not think accountability has happened yet and that neither organization is fully complying with the investigations. Larry Nassar is now serving a 175-year prison term. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Thank you, Trace. Joining me now, Rachel Denhollander, Larry Nassar abuse survivor and author of two new books, the children's book, "How Much is a Little Girl Worth" and her memoir "What is a Girl Worth." Rachel, great to have you back on the program tonight. What gave you the courage to come forward?

DENHOLLANDER: You know, it was really seen the dynamics that I was looking to see. Seeing the opportunity to take the control out of Larry, to take the control out of MSU and USAG, remove that narrative about what they were able to do.

MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, I think it's always so shocking when people hear that your mother was actually in the room, it was an exam. There was like a cover over, and he's doing this pelvic manipulation which your mom had heard from another friend was actually a procedure to release lower back pain.

And so, it's all very thinly discussed. But you pointed out to me in a prior discussion that it's often that way with child abuse?

DENHOLLANDER: Yes, it is. You know, we like to think --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: What do you mean?

DENHOLLANDER: We like to think of childhood sexual abuse as some sort of fringe crime. And nobody likes to think a pedophilia is common. But the reality is that one in four women and one in six boys will be abused as children, and the average age of abuse is between five and eight years old.

And so, what we need to understand is all these dynamics that makes us look at a child disclosure abuse and saying, that's not possible. Those are the very dynamics that are keeping that abuser in power.

Those are the very dynamics that kept those victims silent and we need to start living in the reality of the epidemic of childhood sexual abuse that we are dealing with and learning how to respond better because otherwise we're just going to continue seeing the numbers grow.

MACCALLUM: So, you know, because it is, it starts at such a young age with children who have no ability to understand, you know, what's going on, in many cases, you wrote this book, "How Much is a Little Girl Worth." You have three daughters ages five and under. What do you hope this book will achieve in terms of starting to give them self-worth and hopefully the ability to say something if something not right is happening?

DENHOLLANDER: Yes. One of the things that communicates to my daughters and little girls is that they are worth everything. They are worth the cost of speaking up. They are worth the cost of doing the right thing.

But what I hope just as much is that it really influences the community discussion that we have around abuse. And just even our ideas of core values. You know, the things that I had to wrestle with as an abuse survivor, what is my identity, where does my worth come from, and how do I make decisions, what is my matrix for decision-making?

Those are all things that we have to wrestle with regardless of our background, regardless of the issues that we are facing.

And so, I hope with the memoir is not just to educate on abuse but really to educate on how we make our decisions and where a value comes from and get down to those intrinsic questions that we all have to ask ourselves.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean I think that the book, you know, the adult book "What is a Girl Worth" is a real eye-opener because it shows you just how easily someone you love could be in the situation and I think it's very eye-opening, as I said.

And "How Much is a Little Girl Worth" is a beautiful book as well, that I know is aimed at your daughters and other little girls as well.

And I thank you very much for coming here tonight and for being so courageous.

DENHOLLANDER: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Rachel, thank you. All the best.

Coming up, Wall Street is issuing a warning to Elizabeth Warren. So, will she want to hear that warning? Wednesdays with Watters is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Twenty-twenty candidate Elizabeth Warren is getting some good traction in a lot of the polls out there, and today, Wall Street, apparently, some representatives are having none of it. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she becomes president what do you think is going to happen at the banks?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's not a -- it would be a sub optimal situation for the banks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, I've got to tell you, when you get off the desk and you talk to executives, they are more fearful of her winning. I mean, I've never heard anybody say, look. She's got to be stopped. She's got to be stopped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joining me now for Wednesdays with Watters, Jesse Watters, co- host of The Five and host of Watters World. Then Jim Cramer tweeted Wall Street executives are fearful of an Elizabeth Warren presidency according to Mad Money CNBC Jim Cramer. That was a CNBC tweet.

And Elizabeth Warren took delight in that. She embraced it. She said "I'm Elizabeth Warren, and I approve this message."

JESSE WATTERS, HOST: Well, she's going to embrace in the primary, in the general and she's going to come crawling back begging for donations from Wall Street, because as a Democrat it's kind of like a game of FTSE. You have to talk tough about cracking down on Wall Street, and then around the corner you have to go, guys, can I get some of the money? Because they need that money to win.

All Democrats, if they win, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton always did that same thing, they straddle the issue. But they should be scared legitimately. She's going to tax wealth, she's going to tax the transactions, capital gains, she's going to break up the banks. And I would be nervous if I was a Wall Street executive but not that nervous because I think Trump is going to beat her.

MACCALLUM: Well, I mean, as you say, they all love the Wall Street money and I think some of them make sort of, you know, behind the scenes assurances about, don't worry, I'm not going to mess with your businesses that way.

WATTERS: Right.

MACCALLUM: But her given her history I think that's going to be really difficult bridge for her to walk. But we'll see. We'll see what she does.

Obviously, today is September 11th and, you know, I think one of the things that strikes a lot of us, especially people like you and me who live in the area and lived through all of this is the insensitivity that is sometimes presented in some of the remembrances on this day.

And everyone has to do it in their own way of course but the New York Times put is out there. This tweaked. Let's put it up on the screen. And it says, "I just -- it says, 18 years have passed since airplanes took aim and brought down the World Trade Center. Today, families will once again gather and grieve at the site where more than 2,000 people died."

This is one of those things where you say, what is wrong with this picture?

WATTERS: yes.

MACCALLUM: If you had a big sharpie what would you circle there to draw people's attention to?

WATTERS: I mean, I would cross the whole thing out and start over because don't kill people. Muslim terrorists flying the airplanes do. And that's what happened.

I remember in the London terror attacks a few years ago where the Islamic terrorist drove vans into pedestrians and the New York Times said that they were van attacks. It goes up to the Fort Hood is workplace violence. It goes back to Benghazi it was triggered by a video.

And what Omar said was that some people did some things. The left and especially the media try to sanitize terrorism from Islam because they think it's going to cause Islamophobia. They think it's unfair to Islam and it's going to cause more Muslims to radicalized.

And ultimately, they want to de-emphasize the war on terror and they want to fight other wars like the war on global warming.

MACCALLUM: I mean, more Muslims have been killed by Islamic terrorists than any other group of people.

WATTERS: Good point.

MACCALLUM: They understand the violence of these people. These are not -- this is not airplane violence --

WATTERS: Right.

MACCALLUM: -- in the parlance of gun violence.

WATTERS: Right.

MACCALLUM: You have to call it what it is or else you diminish the less -- and also it was close to 3,000 people.

WATTERS: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Not 2,000.

WATTERS: Yes, they deemphasize the amount of people that died that day. And they play games with numbers, Martha. Do you remember when they talk about this gun violence, there are hundreds of people died from gun violence in school shootings.

If you look at the study, they counted a guy that dropped his gun at 10 p.m. and it misfired. They called that a school shooting, so they play games.

MACCALLUM: Jesse, thanks.

WATTERS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Always good to see you.

WATTERS: You too.

MACCALLUM: More of “The Story” right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A moment tonight to remember the first recorded casualty of 9/11, Father Mychal Judge, a true fixture beloved in New York, including the city's firefighters for whom he was the chaplain.

He went into the building on September 11 with the firefighters. He was right there with those responders. This photo shows Father Judge as they carried him away from the scene. They say that he was the first one in heaven and there to welcome all the others.

We leave you tonight with these images captured today, 18 years later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Present arms.

TRUMP: Today, our nation honors and mourns the nearly 3,000 lives that were stolen from us on September 11th, 2001.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard Edward Bosco.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And my Aunt Gabriella Sovina (Ph) Waisman, who I never got to meet, but who I've heard many great things about and who I love very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he was alive, I would not only think of him as my grandfather by my role model. I love him with all my heart and I shall never (Inaudible). I love you, Papa Jerry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My cousin port authority police officer David (Inaudible). There truly isn't a day that passes that we don't think about you and about the tragic day. We love you and we miss you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen years later, it still cuts like a knife. We miss you. Until we meet again.

TRUMP: We cannot erase the pain but we offer you all that we have. Our unwavering loyalty, our undying devotion, and our eternal pledge that your loved ones will never, ever be forgotten.

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