Kavanaugh debate turns raw, ugly

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Kavanaugh debate turns raw, ugly

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," September 30, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On the Buzz Meter this Sunday, a deeply emotional drama played out on television. Brett Kavanaugh versus Christine Blasey Ford in a Senate hearing that is fully (ph) passionate and polarizing coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD, ACCUSER OF BRETT KAVANAUGH: -- seen my life picked apart by people on television, on Twitter, other social media, other media, and in this body who have never met me or spoken with me.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS: This was extremely emotional, extremely raw, and extremely credible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The worst thing for Kavanaugh happened which is Professor Ford came across credibly. She came across as human. She didn't come across as a Democrat out for revenge.

SUPREME COURT NOMINEE JUDGE BRETT KAVANAUGH: My family and my name have been totally and permanently destroyed by vicious and false additional accusations. Crazy stuff. Gangs, illegitimate children, fights on boats in Rhode Island. All nonsense reported breathlessly and often uncritically by the media.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: He seemed angry at the back of this old stuff being brought up than he was indignant that anybody would accuse him of this stuff.

CYNTHIA ALKSNE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: I thought it was a temper tantrum. He was angry and belligerent, and it was kind of scary.

BILL BENNETT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think we saw Judge Kavanaugh's soul today. Righteous indignation and it's powerful.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: Is the press being fair to the judge and his accuser over the sexual assault allegation? Do the other accusers deserve so much media attention? How are journalists covering the one-week delay for an FBI probe? And Martha MacCallum on her unprecedented sit-down with the nominee.

Plus, a total media frenzy over Rod Rosenstein with report saying he's out, he's done, he's finished as deputy attorney general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN: A source tells CNN now that Rosenstein has submitted his resignation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Except that didn't happen. How did the coverage spin out of control? I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "MediaBuzz."

President Trump ordered a one-week investigation of the Kavanaugh allegations. The move was essentially forced by Republican Senator Jeff Flake. (INAUDIBLE) week in which senators spent hours shouting and squabbling about the sexual assault allegations and many pundits are denouncing one side or the other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: They destroyed this man and his family. They bludgeoned him all for the sake of power. There was zero presumption of innocence here or due process.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It just felt as though that the Republican senators approached her as a nuisance and approached him as entitled to what he should have.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage: Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist and a Fox News contributor; Susan Ferrechio, chief congressional correspondent for The Washington Examiner; and Marie Harf, a Fox News analyst and former State Department spokeswoman.

Mollie, what's your assessment of how the media covered Brett Kavanaugh's highly emotional testimony as opposed to how they covered Christine Ford's highly emotional testimony?

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, THE FEDERALIST: Well, just in general, I don't know if I have ever seen such a reprehensible performance by the media as they have done with this larger story. They have thrown away any devotion to facts in favor of emotion.

You saw that from almost everyone who was covering this. They were talk about emotion. They weren't talking about actual facts, actual news. And it was very frustrating to watch, was very angering to watch, and it was as if they had just thrown off any semblance of objectivity.

KURTZ: (INAUDIBLE).

HEMINGWAY: It was infuriating. It was disappointing. It is disappointing as a journalist. You expect -- you expect people who are in politics to play politics. Democrats to be one way, Republicans to be another.

But for the media to align themselves so completely with Democratic Party politics here, it is frustrating and it's frustrating and it is just unacceptable and it should not be tolerated in any way.

KURTZ: Susan, what I saw on the hearing day was a rough consensus during the breaks, that Christine Ford had been a credible witness and a sympathetic witness. But much more of a left-right split among not just commentators but journalists about Judge Kavanaugh and his account and his demeanor.

So, for example, New York Times front page headline yesterday taking issue with the judge's tone. "Diatribe by Nominee Threatens Neutrality of Court. Some Fear."

SUSAN FERRECHIO, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, that's because -- because he was going after the Democrats. No matter what you say about whether you're saying there was too much credence given to the testimony of Ford and whether he was too impassioned, what was unusual here was that he directly addressed the Democrats and he went back to the original confirmation hearing which he called as an embarrassment.

KURTZ: And he talked about the revenge of the Clintons.

FERRECHIO: That's right. He gave them talking points on that front. So I have to say I agreed with that coverage because you did -- that was highly unusual, to have a Supreme Court nominee do that. But they leave out the fact that even on the Supreme Court now, Ruth Bader Ginsburg has come out against Donald Trump in the past. So it's not like the Supreme Court is completely devoid of politics.

KURTZ: Right. Marie, I've really been struck by a divide among many male commentators and female commentators in the way they view this. Just to read you a couple of headlines. National Review's Rich Lowry, the headline is, Judge Kavanaugh should be angry, because he's defending himself against charges that he says are completely bogus. Slate's Christina Cauterucci, Kavanaugh's anger made it easier than ever to picture him as an aggressive entitled teen.

MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS: I actually think that it's not just commentator members as (ph) woman who saw that anger that Judge Kavanaugh displayed differently. I think it was people around the country. I'm hearing from folks, friends on Facebook, people on social media.

The other thing, Howie, that we're hearing are or that I really noticed about the coverage is can you imagine the coverage if this nominee who was crying and screaming and being very hysterical had been a woman?

HEMINGWAY: This is precisely the kind of disgusting thing that I think is just --

(CROSSTALK)

HARF: -- disgusting, Mollie. I'm a commentator, I'm not a journalist, and that's how I felt when I watched it. And can I just be very clear though, this hearing was actually not a hearing about facts. This was a hearing that was in large part emotion.

We know most of the facts that came out. No new facts generally were introduced during the hearing because we didn't hear from people we hadn't heard from before like Mark Judge. We heard very emotional testimony on both sides. So the fact that the story focused on the emotion, like, I don't think it's fair for you to say my feelings watching the hearing were disgusting.

KURTZ: Mollie?

HEMINGWAY: What is -- what is inappropriate is to say that a man who has been accused of serial gang rape, who has been told he can no longer coach his -- do his favorite thing which is coach his daughter's basketball team does not have a right to get angry.

In this country, we do have rule of law. We do have due process. And this is something that men and women care about. It is not something that only men care about. Women care about due process. We care about the men in our lives. We care if they are accused of something that we don't say, oh, it feels a certain way to me.

We say what are the facts, what are the facts that support destroying this man's life, his name, his reputation, his honor that he spent decades building up? Now, in journalism, we care about facts, facts.

KURTZ: Let me give you one more chance because Mollie brings up what I thought was extreme allegation by a far less credible accuser, we forget too in a moment about gang rapes in parties and so fort.

Did that -- the other accusers money the lawyers, so Christine Ford looked like just one of several women who coordinated last-minute desperation campaign which is trying to take the judge down?

HARF: I think in the coverage leading up to the hearing before we heard from Dr. Ford yet, the other allegation sort of made it a little more complicated. You're right, Howie.

But I think on the hearing coverage because it was the first time we have heard from Dr. Ford and first time we've seen her other than photos from high school basically, I think that the coverage focused on the hearing actually was much more on Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh and less than I expected on this other allegations.

I thought those would play more of a role in the hearing itself and in the coverage and it didn't.

KURTZ: Susan, I want to get you in on this, but I also want to talk about President Trump at that U.N. news conference. He acknowledged, he has been questioned by reporters, that his view of the Kavanaugh allegations is influenced by what he says are many false allegations against him in the sexual harassment area.

And that seems to be a big thing for the press, you know, first of all, they asked the president about it, that he and the Republican Party, you bring up Roy Moore and cases like that, are insensitive to sexual misconduct?

FERRECHIO: Well, he also talked about being falsely accused --

KURTZ: Right.

FERRECHIO: -- by several women. That influences the way he thinks about it. Look at the fair points of view. It's kind of taboo. We never supposed to question the accuser. I think in whether there may be false allegations, I think that's not a good thing. I think --

KURTZ: You don't think that's being questioned this week in this heavily intense coverage? Does Christine Ford have one single person who can corroborate her accusations as hard felt and as upset as she was at that hearing?

FERRECHIO: I still feel like despite that, despite these gaps in her memory and inconsistencies that Rachel Mitchell, the prosecute, elevated during the discussion in the hearing, it still feels like taboo to bring up the fact that we have not looked at Ford's own credibility issues.

And whether she has anything (p), we are not supposed to touch that, like, no, no, no, she is not the one who is trying to land a seat on the Supreme Court, but she is launching an allegation against someone who is. And I think there should be actually more focus on that.

HEMINGWAY: And you can even see that in the way that Brett Kavanaugh's yearbook in high school is totally scrutinized.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Right, right.

HEMINGWAY: And again, you made an important point. She has a story. She had four, five, sometimes changing number of witnesses, all of whom say they have no idea what she is talking about. That should play a central part in the coverage.

(CROSSTALK)

HEMINGWAY: -- that she has no recollection of what is alleged by --

HARF: Wait, Mollie, this is an important point about the coverage. The way we talk about those other witnesses and the language we use, some commentators who want to believe her are pointing out that they don't say it didn't happen, they say they have no memory of it. Kavanaugh's supporters who are saying they completely --

KURTZ: OK, fair enough.

HEMINGWAY: If you say you never met Kavanaugh and she said that they did - -

KURTZ: Let me jump in because we are short on time. So, let me play a clip of Michael Avenatti, who of course represents the what I'm calling the third accuser, Julie Swetnick, on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: What is the most of damning nature of what she can show?

MICHAEL AVENATTI, LAWYER FOR JULIE SWETNICK: Chris, I'm not going to weigh the allegations in the declaration --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: So, Avenatti puts it out there. He doesn't want to discuss it. Should the media have given Julie Swetnick -- this is the woman who went at 10 parties and woman being gang raped. What do you make of the media oxygen (ph) for this story?

HEMINGWAY: The claim was that as an adult, she attended 10 gang rape parties where she saw under-aged people gang raped by Brett Kavanaugh. That is ludicrous on its space. Why compare it to the Pizzagate story where the media condemns people, whoever believe in Pizzagate.

Here they were trafficking, promoting, putting this man on the airwaves so he can do this. This has real costs to people. It is so beneath the standards that we should have.

FERRECHIO: Yes, they missed the whole point here, which is that Flake has a gang. In Capitol Hill, we call this gang. They have a lot of leverage. His gang is Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, and Joe Manchin. The four of them are working together. He, among them, was a sole member of the Judiciary Committee. So him saying, I want this FBI probe, he is speaking for four people and their vote is --

KURTZ: He is going on "60 Minutes" tonight. All right, let me get a break. When we come back, Ronan Farrow and The New Yorker taking heat over a piece on Kavanaugh's second accuser and obviously had some major problems. And later, Martha MacCallum on how she handled her sit-down with the judge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: The New Yorker drew an unusual degree of criticism when the magazine's Ronan Farrow and Jane Mayer published an allegation by Deborah Ramirez that Brett Kavanaugh had exposed himself to her in college despite admitting to gaps in her memory and her initial uncertainty that it was him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS You write, after six days of carefully assessing her memories and consulting with her attorneys, she did become confident that it was him.

RONAN FARROW, JOURNALIST: That's extremely typical of these stories when you are dealing with trauma, alcohol, many years in between.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The second accuser has nothing. The second accuser doesn't even know, maybe it could have been him, maybe not. She admits that she was drunk. She admits time lapses.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: Mollie, Ronan Farrow has an impressive record when it comes to reporting on Harvey Weinstein, Les Moonves. This piece, what do you make of the magazine publishing this particular article and the way much of the media handled it?

HEMINGWAY: Right. Jane Mayer is someone who doesn't have a very good record for reporting on things. She has had problems in her past in how she has reported. Ronan Farrow had a really good reputation.

By running this story which was based on a woman coming up, developing a new memory a couple of weeks ago that a lawyer helped her work on after she was reached out to by Senate Democrats, is just -- it is such a disservice.

And it makes it look like his previous journalism might be in question if he thought that this was a good story, if he thought this was actually credible to run with it without any corroboration from anybody. And it weakened the overall case against Kavanaugh.

I think she took at least plausible story in the first accuser and then each subsequent story has gotten more and more ridiculous.

KURTZ: OK. I should say that Jane Mayer does have a long record as an investigative reporter. We can debate it at some other time. So, I went to publisher and here's why. You go to the story and there it is, a big flashing red light.

Her memories contain gaps. She was drinking. Only after six days of carefully assessing her memories and consulting with her attorneys that she felt confident enough to say this. But The New Yorker obviously under some time pressure did publish it.

FERRECHIO: Yeah. We, as reporters, we go through this stuff with a fine tooth comb. The thing is, you know, the time lapse and the heavy drinking which raised an issue of credibility, what can you remember? When she heard the name Brett? Was she sure it was Brett Kavanaugh?

You know, all these questions, huge questions coming on the heels of the original accusation from Ford -- I mean, how can you resist trying to put out a story like this? She is a Yale graduate. She went to school --

KURTZ: She was on the record. Bur here is the thing. The New York Times looked at the same story and the Times reports to its readers. We interviewed several dozen people in attempt to corroborate her story. Could find no one with firsthand knowledge.

And then reports that Deborah Ramirez contacted former Yale classmates, asking if they recall the incident, and told some of them she could not be certain that Kavanaugh was the one who exposed himself. That's why the Times didn't publish it.

HARF: Times also didn't publish because Ramirez would only go on the record with "The New Yorker."

KURTZ: True.

HARF: So, they should give --

KURTZ: Right.

HARF: I think that The New Yorker laid out very clearly in their article the gaps and the problems of her story. I think they are actually --

KURTZ: True.

HARF: -- very upfront about that.

KURTZ: Right.

HARF: This was a bit of a close call probably in terms of whether or not you publish. But they were very upfront about some of these questions. And as Ronan said, he is right when he said many victims of sexual assault, this is not uncommon that the memories come back later, they come back in pieces.

This is probably a close call in terms of publishing. But they laid out very clearly the problems with her story for readers to evaluate.

KURTZ: Just briefly, bottom line, The New Yorker had no one with (INAUDIBLE) knowledge to corroborate, had one person heard secondhand (ph) --

HARF: Right.

KURTZ: And that's it.

HEMINGWAY: I mean, this does not come even near the standard that you would require. But journalistic standards have been flying out the door in general. "USA Today" yesterday ran a piece saying that Brett Kavanaugh shouldn't be around children. I mean, there is something almost medieval and blood thirst in the media approach to this story.

KURTZ: I think we can all agree despite the different opinions here that this gotten really, really ugly. Marie Harf, Susan Ferrechio, Mollie Hemingway, great to see you this Sunday.

Ahead, we got Martha MacCallum. We got Corey Lewandowski on the Kavanaugh of culture war. That's what it is. And the coverage of the president. But up next, the media breathlessly report Rod Rosenstein was quitting or about to be fired, but he wasn't.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: It was breathless. It was downright dizzying. A media frenzy over the fate of Rod Rosenstein. Axios reported that he had verbally resigned as deputy attorney general. That turned out to be wrong. He only raised the possibility of resignation and it wasn't accepted. And then came the cable explosion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN: A source tells CNN now that Rosenstein has submitted his resignation.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN: The breaking news now, CNN can report that the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, is expecting to be fired by President Trump.

CRAIG MELVIN, MSNBC: Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, according to the White House, he's coming to resign. Other sources close to Rosenstein saying, I am not going to resign. If they want me out, they are going to have to fire me.

PETE WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS The question is, will he resign or will he be fired? And my guess would be that he will be fired, that he will not resign.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS: What became clear is that Rod Rosenstein, according to a source familiar with the matter, has not verbally resigned to John Kelly as has been reported. Rather, he is heading to the White House "expecting" to be fired.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: Joining us now: Brit Hume, Fox's senior political analyst. And Brit, Rod Rosenstein was not fired. President Trump has postponed the meeting. The White House is signaling he's probably safe for now at least until the midterms. What did you make of that just media circus?

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS: There is kind of a running story in this town, there has been for sometime, which is Trump White House, Trump administration in chaos. Such that anything that comes along that would appear to imperil the cabinet member, senior staff member is seized upon and has a tendency to go right to the, you know, get fired, out.

KURTZ: Yeah.

HUME: Sometimes people do get fired in the Trump administration. Has happened a number of times. But it hasn't happened every time. You need to be careful at these things. I might note, Howard, in the midst of all this, what bothered me the most was, this all had to do with a meeting in which he has has said to erase (ph) the possibility of wearing a wire at the White House for the purpose of establishing unqualified nature of Trump's temperament approach now as serving president.

We were given -- Fox News, I think Bret Baier got it, we had it on the air repeatedly, an explanation of that event which was that he was being criticized at a meeting by colleagues, Rod Rosenstein, for being too soft on Trump. His rebuttal to that was, what do you want me to do, wear a wire? A sarcastic rebuttal. It was reported wildly that he was -- thr explanation was he was joking.

KURTZ: Right.

HUME: At no time was that looking anything like a joke. A sarcastic rebuttal to criticism is not a joke. And yet you are still hearing it to this day.

KURTZ: All right. Let's move now to Kavanaugh nomination. A number of women, journalists and others, have come out with their own stories about sexual assault. And Kellyanne Conway on CNN this morning had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I feel very empathetic frankly for victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment and rape. I am the victim of sexual assault. I don't expect Judge Kavanaugh or Jake Tapper or Jeff Flake or anybody to be held responsible for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Does it have an impact for the White House counselor to come out and say that on national television?

HUME: I think so. Look, the underlying thing with that is this stuff happens. And it happens a lot more than we might imagine. I think that's true. I think it's disturbing. On the other hand, consider the moment which Jeff Flake was subjected to. He's standing in an elevator. He has announced his intention to vote for the nominee. And there was a woman who said she was the victim of sexual assault and she may well have been. And she is screaming at him.

KURTZ: The cameras are rolling.

HUME: The cameras are rolling. She is screaming at him that his vote to confirm Kavanaugh is telling her that she doesn't matter. I understand the woman's emotion. But that's utter nonsense. There is too much of that flying around. As if the fact that this thing happened validates every claim that it happened. We have seen too many examples, "Rolling Stone," "UVA" --

KURTZ: I was about to bring that. You went to the university --

HUME: I did.

KURTZ: And you were sceptical of that false, an utterly bogus "Rolling Stone" piece about gang rape at fraternity.

HUME: Right.

KURTZ: So, without in any way suggesting, implying or insinuating that Christine Ford wasn't telling the truth, as she remembers it, do you think many in the media refuse to consider the idea that a man might be falsely accused?

HUME: I think that's what undergird all the grumbling about his anger performance and his evident disrespect for the Senate panel, particularly the Democrats to whom he direct most of his fire, but he did speak about the whole thing being a circus.

KURTZ: Including the media. He said breathlessly reported --

HUME: Indeed. And I think that represents a failure to empathize with him. How would you react if you are sitting there accused of being evil and committing the most terrible sex crimes in an open forum without corroboration?

In fact, if you are innocent, you are going to be enraged. And he was. And I think -- so I think this is kind of one-for-one match between her emotional anguish --

KURTZ: Yes.

HUME: -- and his anger.

KURTZ: You said on the air during the hearing that you felt that Christine Ford was a sympathetic witness.

HUME: I did.

KURTZ: But you also took issue, for example, "The New Republic" and many others, saying that Kavanaugh's strategy was is to be mad as hell.

HUME: Yeah. Look, I don't think there is any reason to be cynical about either of these people. To believe that everything is a strategy or strategy. If we have evidence of that, fine, let's see it. Otherwise, I think, you know, there is no reason not to believe that these are heartfelt reactions.

She obviously was in anguish telling this story which has, you know, bothered her for such a long time. The fact that -- and I think that -- I would say she is credible in the sense that I think she believes it.

KURTZ: Yeah.

HUME: And I think she is sincere about it.

KURTZ: Yeah.

HUME: That doesn't mean her recollection is correct.

KURTZ: And the coverage of Kavanaugh --

HUME: And the coverage of Kavanaugh was emotional. And I think that if you believe that he believes he's innocent, you would find it understandable.

KURTZ: Yeah, unfortunately the coverage --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: -- too partisan and very personal. Brit Hume, great to see you as always.

HUME: Thank you, Howard.

KURTZ: Thanks so much. Coming up, the president's former campaign manager on the coverage of the Kavanaugh battle and his former boss, Corey Lewandowski, is standing by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Joining us from Manchester, the response to the media coverage of Brett Kavanaugh and the president is Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's former campaign manager, now Vice-President Pence's Great America PAC. And, Corey, the president resisted the Democratic demands for an FBI probe with the Kavanaugh allegations, but changed his mind to order the investigation after Republican Senator Jeff Flake, as you've known, and a couple colleagues essentially threatened to block the thing. The media is painting this as a kind of a victory for the anti-Kavanaugh forces, is it?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, DONALD TRUMP'S FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER: No, this isn't a victory for anybody. Look, I don't think anybody is going to come out of this victorious. But what the president wants to make sure is that when the Senate has all the information in front of them, whether it is provided by Judge Kavanaugh, Dr. Ford, or now from the FBI, that they will make a decision based on the totality of the information they have. And I think once they see all of that, the Senate is going to vote to elevate Judge Kavanaugh to Justice Kavanaugh, and make him the next member of the Supreme Court.

KURTZ: Why didn't the president make that decision earlier until before he was sort of pushed into a corner by Flake and company?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think what you saw, Howie, was the compelling testimony that took place on Thursday on both sides of this, both from Dr. Ford and from Judge Kavanaugh, allowed him to make sure that what the Democrats asked for, they were given, so that this process is fair and equitable. I don't know what information the FBI thinks they are going to obtain or what the Democratic senators think the FBI's 302s are going to give them, but they will have no excuses after they have the opportunity to read those reports from the FBI not to support Judge Kavanaugh, unless they want to play strictly partisan politics, which is what this has -- this has evolved into.

KURTZ: Corey, at his news conference the other day, the one that went on for about an hour and a half, the president was asked rather personal questions about reports from CNN and CBS about his own experiences in this area. Let me play a sound bite for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Please go ahead, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did those impact your opinions on the allegations?

TRUMP: Well, it does impact my opinion. You know what? Because I have had a lot of false charges made against me. So you say does it doesn't affect me in terms of my thinking with respect to Judge Kavanaugh, absolutely. Because I've had it many times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Corey, I thought that was a pretty candid answer on the president's part saying that you can't separate what he views as false sexual misconduct allegations against him, from his view of the Kavanaugh case. And it has led to a lot of media criticism that he always seems to side with the men in these kinds of cases.

LEWANDOWSKI: Yeah, Howie, but he also said, he's been on the record that he thought the testimony that Dr. Kavanaugh gave was very compelling...

KURTZ: Dr. Ford, you mean.

LEWANDOWSKI: I'm sorry, Dr. Ford gave was very compelling.

KURTZ: Yeah.

LEWANDOWSKI: It was very much in line with what she believed happened, and he was very moved by that. He has been clear about that. So, look, I think this is the media trying to hone in on one thing and not looking at everything that the president said about this. And it's the president's decision to make sure the FBI was involved in this, so that they can clear Judge Kavanaugh of these charges or at least get to the bottom of it. And that's what this president has done.

But you have to remember, everybody comes to situations with their own personal experience behind them. And to think it hasn't impacted him, knowing he has been accused of things similar in the past that we now know have no basis and no merit is of course weighing on him. That's why he moved forward with the FBI's investigation. And that's why he has done that at his request.

And I think what you will find is that Judge Kavanaugh is going to have his final arbitration in front of the U.S. Senate where he'll be confirmed the next Justice of the Supreme Court.

KURTZ: As a brief aside, the president doesn't do have many of those long solo news conferences. You think he should do more?

LEWANDOWSKI: I love when the president goes directly to the American people, bypasses the media, bypasses the fake news. I love when he does it. I think if he did those on a regular basis, look, the American people are riveted by listening to this president. He is a person who speaks candidly, boldly, and pushes back when questions are unfair. I like how he does it. Howie, I wrote this book on Let Trump be Trump. And I love it.

KURTZ: All right. I don't think he is totally bypassing the news because he is taking questions from journalists, which I happen to think is a good thing. So, overall, do you think the media have been more sympathetic to Christine Ford and her very emotional account before the Senate than to Brett Kavanaugh who also was very emotional, who some said came across as very angry? But after all, he's defending himself and his family against what he sees as unjustified charges.

LEWANDOWSKI: You know, I think the media is in a very difficult spot. And I think if the media would stop making the news and simply reporting the news, the American people would have a higher faith and confidence in what they're hearing everyday.

KURTZ: Hold on. How are the media making news? What are you referring to?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, what they do -- you know, I have seen multiple feeds on Twitter, from outlets that say Brett Kavanaugh was angry. And look, USA Today editorial said potentially he should not be coaching girls' basketball anymore, and they had to change that.

KURTZ: Yeah.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's disgusting. That's a disgusting display.

KURTZ: That's awful.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's making the news, and not reporting the news. You know, this is a man who for years has coached his daughters' and his friends' basketball program. And all of a sudden, USA Today says that he should be off the court until this is all resolved? Can you imagine for one second they said about -- that about Al Frank or some other Democrat? Of course not, that's a liberal bias the American people are sick of.

KURTZ: Yeah, well, it was a column that was absolutely over the line and I'm glad that the USA Today corrected it. But I agree with you on this point. So, now, we hear many pundits saying you know, look, Judge Kavanaugh is very likely to be convicted. But even if he is, they say, there is going to be a shadow over him on the court because of his -- what they say an angry performance. And it is going to hurt the Republican Party in the midterms because the GOP is associated -- will be responsible for putting Kavanaugh on the high court. Your thoughts.

LEWANDOWSKI: I don't believe that. I actually think this is an issue that unites the Republicans and independents across the country. This man has clearly been impugned. His reputation, not just his, but his family's, has obviously been attacked. And the testimony that he provided, which I thought was the most compelling, was when he talked about his 10-year-old daughter asking for a prayer for Dr. Ford. That was so compelling.

That should tell you about the character of this man who raised his children to do what the right thing to do is here. And I think Republicans or the Establishment Republicans, what they are well known to be, or the Trump Republicans are unified in their support saying we want to see Brett Kavanaugh confirmed. And that is driving them now. That's energizing them to show up in just over five weeks to show up on Election Day.

KURTZ: Yeah, that was a very touching moment. Ad I think anybody would choke up about that point, talking about their young children. Corey Lewandowski, thanks so much for joining us this Sunday.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you, Howie.

KURTZ: We appreciate it. Ahead, a Trump supporter sues MSNBC Joy Reid for defaming her by accusing her of using a racial slur.

But first, Martha MacCallum on her interview with Brett Kavanaugh on how she tried to push him off his talking points.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: It's absolutely unheard of for a Supreme Court nominee to break his silence in a television interview. But that's what happened when Brett Kavanaugh sat down with Fox's Martha MacCallum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS: So where do you think this is coming from, why would she make this up?

KAVANAUGH: What I know is the truth. And the truth is I've never sexually assaulted anyone in high school or otherwise.

MACCALLUM: Did you ever participate in or were you ever aware of any gang rape that happened at a party that you attended?

KAVANAUGH: That's totally false and outrageous. I've never have done any such thing or known of any such thing.

MACCALLUM: Are you saying that through all these years are in question, you were a virgin?

KAVANAUGH: That's correct.

MACCALLUM: Never had sexual interest course with anyone in high school?

KAVANAUGH: Correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: I spoke to the anchor of The Story, which airs weeknights at 7 Eastern from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Martha MacCallum, welcome.

MACCALLUM: Good to be with you, Howie.

KURTZ: When your interview with Brett Kavanaugh was announced, some so- called media critics and others said in advance oh, it's going to be an infomercial, oh, it's all going to be softballs. What do you make of that dismissive attitude?

MACCALLUM: Right. I mean, it's always dangerous to judge what happens in the news before it happens, don't you? I mean, I find that really surprising that anybody who calls themselves a journalist or even media analyst would be so quick to jump the gun before the actual event.

KURTZ: Unlike the emotional or sometimes angry Brett Kavanaugh we saw at the hearing, when he sat down with you, a lot of journalists pointed out he seemed cautious, over rehearsed, kind of sticking to talking points, saying 20 times I want a fair process. Were you conscious of that?

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it was very clear to me that he and his wife, they were understandably nervous and uptight about this. They obviously talked about you know the lines that he wanted to remember to say and to hammer home as anybody does when you know sort of going into a difficult situation like that. I felt he was simmering beneath the surface. And it was almost as if he had a cork in the top. But it was very clear there was a lot of emotion going on.

And I think when we saw him coming to that hearing this week it was clear the cork had popped, and he was tired of sticking to any sort of talking points. And he knew how important it was for him to fully express himself. And I think -- and I think looking back on it, he probably looks back on Monday as you know sort of an enlightening experience in terms of how he needed to express himself if he really wanted to be convincing.

KURTZ: Yeah, it was fascinating.

MACCALLUM: It turned out, yeah.

KURTZ: You could sense the tension underneath. Here is what everybody wants to know. Were you surprised when Judge Kavanaugh volunteered that he didn't have sexual intercourse until many years after high school.

MACCALLUM: You know, one of the most interesting things about that is that that came after -- I went through all three different allegations with him, the woman that we now know as Julie Swetnick, Debra Ramirez and also Dr. Ford. We didn't know her name at that point.

KURTZ: Right.

MACCALLUM: But that allegation was out there already. And that was the point when I asked him about that, about the gang rape allegations, the train, him being in the hallway standing in line to participate in something like this. That was when he was extremely emotional and that launched him into this alibi essentially of saying that wasn't me. I would never do that. In fact, I never had sex all through high school and into many, many years after that. So, you know, that was the specific reference to that last allegation, which clearly, he thought it was so important.

KURTZ: Right. Since at the time that you sat down, we didn't know Julie Swetnick, we didn't know the details of what she was going to say in her statement, why did you decide to include that, because you knew it would be bubbling up afterwards?

MACCALLUM: You know what, I didn't necessarily know it would bubble up afterwards. But it was well out there in the public domain and people were discussing it. And I wanted to give him an opportunity to respond to it. And I'm glad I did, because there was a name attached to it within 48 hours after that. You know, that was one -- that's one of the trickiest things obviously in covering these stories, because there are so many wild allegations out there.

And we saw another allegation that came out of Rhode Island, which was then shot down by the person who presented it in the first place.

KURTZ: Right.

MACCALLUM: So, we, as reporters, obviously have to very careful with these things. I put it out there, it was in the public domain, and I asked him to respond based on what we knew at the time.

KURTZ: Right. You tried to get Kavanaugh to talk about the motivations of his accusers, The New Yorkers journalism and publishing the allegations, Deborah Ramirez, and he continually deflected it. Were you conscious of that?

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

KURTZ: Was it frustrating at all that he wouldn't go there?

MACCALLUM: It was frustrating because I see -- you know, I could sense in him he was extremely frustrated about what he saw, the powers behind all of this. And it is clear if you're saying he said I didn't do any of these things. And he is looking at me saying, you know, I didn't do this. I said to him, where do you think this is coming from? What do you think is behind this?

KURTZ: Logical question.

MACCALLUM: And he said I don't know. But by the time -- between Monday and when we saw the hearing later in the week, he clearly had decided that there was no reason for him to hold back on that.

KURTZ: And just briefly, given you knew he had the only interview given the huge stakes with the Supreme Court seen in the balance, did you feel a lot of pressure?

MACCALLUM: Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, as I said, we had put in a request for him some time ago. Supreme Court nominees do not do interviews. They speak -- they do interviews when they speak with senators on the Hill. And it was clearly a unique situation. And when they did --- you know, give us the go ahead that he wanted to sit down...

KURTZ: Right.

MACCALLUM: I did feel a big responsibility to the public and also to him. And I felt it was very important to get those allegations out in front specifically as difficult as some of them were to talk about in front of him and his wife. But I felt it was important for the American public to watch his response to them and to start to gauge what they thought and see how they judge his responses.

KURTZ: Right. Well, the New York Times among others said you delivered a tough round of questions. Martha MacCallum, thanks so much for sitting down with us.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, Howie.

KURTZ: After the break, President Trump keeps swiping at the press, but also says a few nice things at that marathon news conference. We'll break it down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: President Trump had a lot to say about the media at the 80-minute U.N. news conference. Reporters such as CBS Weija Jiang, as I alluded to earlier, tried to personalize the sexual misconduct allegations against Brett Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEIJA JIANG, CBS REPORTER: How are your personal experiences being accused by more than...

TRUMP: I have been accused. I have been accused false accusations.

JIANG: Right.

TRUMP: Excuse me, I've been accused. And I was accused by I believe it was four women. You can check with Sean Hannity, you can check with Fox because they covered it very strongly.

Excuse me, I was accused by four or five women who got paid a lot of money to make up stories about me. We caught them and the mainstream media refused to put it on television.

The next day, I picked up the papers, there wasn't one word about it. The next day, I watched ABC News, I watched NBC, I watched CBS. I didn't watch CNN, but next time I will watch. I watched everything. There wasn't one story other than Fox.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Well, CBS, ABC, and the New York Times and the Washington Post did report the following, although not always quickly in a big way. Attorney Lisa Bloom said she lined up hundreds of thousands of dollars from donors to potentially compensate four Trump accusers she was representing for relocation and security expenses, not to make up stories about him, also money wound up being returned. We found no reports on this by NBC or CNN.

The president was clearly having a good time at the press. As you are seeing, he called on his biggest nemesis in the press corps, CNN Jim Acosta, and even had this to say about the failing New York Times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Times, I think they are going to endorse me. I think that ABC -- well, Fox, I like Fox, I really do. But I think ABC, CBS, NBC, the Times, they are all going to endorse me, because if they don't, they will go out of business. Can you imagine if you didn't have me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Well, first networks don't endorse candidates. Second, the Times is -- how shall I say this? It's extremely unlikely to take back Trump. And while they're not going out of business without him, the truth is he is boosting everyone's ratings and circulation. And one other presidential point about the Times' front page coverage of him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Now, I think I average about three or four a day, right. And the three or four, they're all negative. No matter what I do, they're negative. But you know what, that's OK. I still love the paper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Well, I have been telling you it's a love-hate relationship. This is what I've said in my book. As for the mockery over the president calling on a Kurdish reporter and calling him Mr. Kurd, calm down, he was kidding. And the reporter loved it.

Still the come, a lawsuit against MSNBC's Joy Reid over a racial slur.

And Bill Cosby behind bars, his spokesman is blaming the racist media.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Bill Cosby is in state prison now, serving a 3- to 10-year sentence. And I don't feel a twinge of sympathy for him, even though I love his comedy while I was growing up, given all the women's lives he ruined. His spokesman Andrew White is blaming a racist and sexist trial and a racist and sexist media. Sorry, Cosby was found guilty based on the evidence in the Andrea Constand case. And at the sentencing, he didn't utter a single word of remorse.

MSNBC's Joy Reid has been sued for defamation by a California woman named Roslyn La Liberte, who was captured in a viral photo wearing a Make America Great Again hat in what looked like a heated debate with a teenaged boy. You see that moment and tweeted apology from Mrs. Reid said: "It appears I got this wrong. My apologies for Mrs. La Liberte Reid and Joseph." Now, Reid has made no public comment, had retweeted that the woman had yelled at 14- year-old Joseph Luevanos and called him a dirty Mexican.

In fact, Joseph was born in this country, says he appreciated their talk, and that everything was civil. And the video shows them hugging at the end. Why would Joy Reid who has apologized also for hateful postings a decade ago, make this baseless charge in the first place?

That's it for this edition of "MediaBuzz." I'm Howard Kurtz. This is the most of emotional show we have ever had, such an emotional topic as the Kavanaugh hearings.

Check out my Podcast, "MediaBuzz Meter." We kick around today's five most important or interesting stories. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes or Google Play, or FoxNewsPodcast.com. Continue the conversation on Twitter, @howardkurtz. Check out our Facebook page. We post our videos and columns. I'm out of time. See you next Sunday with the latest buzz.

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