Judge Jeanine: I fear for Lady Justice

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Judge Jeanine: I fear for Lady Justice

The dismissal of the fundamental rules of our justice system is stunning.

This is a rush transcript from "Justice with Judge Jeanine," September 22, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JEANINE PIRRO, HOST JUSTICE WITH JUDGE JEANINE: Breaking tonight, a tentative agreement for Christine Blasey Ford to testify before a Senate committee on Thursday. Hello, and welcome to "Justice." I'm Jeanine Pirro. Thanks for being with us and thanks to all of you for once again making "Justice" number one last weekend and for keeping "Liars, Leakers & Liberals" on the the New York Times best sellers list.

We'll be talking throughout the hour about that breaking news on Christine Blasey Ford. A tentative agreement for the woman accusing Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of an attempted sexual assault to testify before the committee this Thursday. But again, this is tentative and both parties are still talking and hammering out the details.

We'll be talking about that more tonight with guests, including counselor to the President, Kellyanne Conway as well as Dr. Sebastian Gorka, Charlie Kirk and Katrina Pierson from the Trump 2020 reelection campaign. But first to my open.

Now, I've spent my career in the trenches where crimes occur, where innocents are victimized, even slaughtered. I have actually fought on that battlefield for more than three decades where justice is sought for victims. And I have long fought for a level playing field, particularly for women. The often silent and forgotten victim of crime. I'm even advocating changing the name of the criminal justice system to the victims' justice system - the victim who never chose to be a part of the criminal justice system in the first place. I started the first domestic violence unit in the prosecutor's office in the nation in the late 1970s. As District Attorney, I created a sex crimes bureau. My crusade for women and children existed long before the #MeToo Movement.

I respect facts, I know the law and I understand what's at stake. Our criminal justice system is the most revered in the world. The constitutional rights of all Americans are etched in stone. And it is in this context that I analyze the situation we're in now.

Number one, due process requires equal protection under the law for the victim as well as the accused. Number two, in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy trial. Number three, no warrant shall issue or criminal charge filed without probable cause. Number four, the accused has the right to a trial by an impartial jury. The right to remain silent. The right to not only confront his accuser but to cross-examine as well. Number five, the burden of proof in every criminal case is beyond a reasonable doubt and the burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Number six, as for the accused, there is absolutely no burden to speak or even present a case.

Now over the years, we've learned certain facts. Number one, sex crimes are underreported because of the victim's fears of not being believed or her fear of the perpetrator. Number two, the recidivism rate of sex offenders is estimated to be as high as 70%. So let us apply this foundational truth to the Christine Ford and Brett Kavanaugh situation. What motivation might someone have to come forward 36 years after an event and how credible could such an accusation be?

Some members of Congress don't care about any of this. The woman has to be believed and he is guilty. Forget a trial, due process or even hearing from the victim, the Constitution be damned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe Dr. Blasey Ford because she's telling the truth.

MAZIE HIRONO, US SENATOR, HAWAII, DEMOCRAT: Not only do women like Dr. Ford who bravely comes forward need to be heard, but they need to be believed. They need to be believed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe Dr. Ford. I believe the survivor here. There's every reason to believe her.

CHUCK SCHUMER, SENATE MINORITY FLOOR LEADER: I believe Professor Ford. I think she's credible and I think when the investigation is finished and when she testifies and Judge Kavanaugh testifies, I think a majority of senators will find her credible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: The dismissal of the fundamental rules of our justice system by congressmen, senators, congresswomen is stunning. Anyone who has prosecuted sex crimes cases knows that. Criminals rarely commit crimes in public or while a videotape is running. So in addition to the he said/she said, he look for corroborating evidence after we hear the core accusation of who, when, where and how.

Now we don't expect minuscule details when a victim is being traumatized. But here, the alleged victim does not know the address, the date, the owner of the house, how she got home that night. Why? What was her appearance when she got home. She was 15. Did her mother see her? Did he suffer a behavioral change? Did her grades go down? To whom did he complain and when?

In sex crime cases in particular, recent outcry is compelling and reliable. When the memory is fresh is when you would most expect the complaint. When is the first time she even used the name Kavanaugh? Here, there is no indication of any of that. Physical evidence such as torn clothes, injuries, visits to a doctor, a hospital, photographs. There is none. Corroborating witnesses, not are there none, but one who just reported that she heard about this at school retracted her story saying, "I didn't think I would actually have to defend that."

A man's reputation, family, career and civil liberties are at stake and you make a claim and you didn't think you had to be honest? And finally, does the complaint ring true? And a complaint does not gain credibility based on the name of the accused. If that were the case, Bill Clinton's accusers would certainly have gotten their day in court.

And what of the credibility and background of the accused. Sixty five women who have gone to school with him, dated him, worked for him and know him have come forward to say that his whole life has been about respecting women. Why, if there is such a high recidivism rate, a repeat of these crimes in violent sex crimes cases have we never heard anything like this after six FBI investigations? And motivation. Whenever a complaint is old any prosecutor would ask why now? Dr. Ford said she was outed. Well it was she who contacted two Democrat congress women six weeks before she came forward, and 36 years after it allegedly happened.

And why take a lie detector test if she believed what she was saying? Why would she need an outsider to affirm whether what she's saying is true? Might it be part of a long hatched plan to reveal? Investigators ask for lie detector tests. And by the way, they're no unreliable that I fought for a law in New York that wouldn't allow police to require women to take lie detector tests because they're unreliable.

Now while Ford is highly political, one incident is even more compelling. Do you remember when a President nominated Brett Kavanaugh, we heard that Kavanaugh's mother was a judge. Ford's parents - follow me. Ford's parents had a foreclosure claim against them and their home in 1996 in Maryland. Ford's parents lost their home. The judge ruled against them. The judge was a woman. The judge was Brett Kavanaugh's mother.

Many time victims are teed up by attorneys who want to become famous or rich. Sometimes they're even used by politicians. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's not prepared to talk with them at a hearing on Monday. This just came out 48 hours ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: No, not 48 hours ago, 36 years ago. Delay becomes even more absurd when she needs to drive across the country to Washington because she won't or can't fly. She was an intern in Hawaii a few years ago. How did she make that trip? Did she drive or surf across the ocean from California to Hawaii. And what's with this, "we need the FBI." There's no Federal crime here. They keep saying "we need the FBI," but they don't ask for it because they know it can't happen. If you want an investigation, call the local police or 911.

My friends, truth and justice and law and order don't change depending on the political parties. Women are to be believed not because a political party thinks they should be, but when they sound credible and present a believable scenario. And believability does not depend on the party of the complainant. And all men who are accused have a right to be cloaked in the presumption of innocence unless and until proof beyond a reasonable doubt shatters that presumption.

And it matters not what your politics are, that Lady Justice is blind, has been the truth in our system from time immemorial. I have honored that lady. I've admired her and be in awe of her for as long as I can remember. But now I fear for her. I fear for Lady Justice. But not just Lady Justice, our institutions and our bedrock constitutional rules that have made America what Ronald Reagan referred to as the shining city on the hill. We can never allow that to happen.

And that's my open. Don't forget my new book, New York Times number one bestseller, "Liars, Leakers & Liberals: The case Against The Anti-Trump Conspiracy" is in bookstores near. And if you're fan of the show or you like my opens, you might want to get a copy.

More now on tonight's breaking news, tentative agreement for Christine Ford to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee this Thursday. Joining me now with exclusive reaction to that and more, counselor to the President, Kellyanne Conway. Good evening, counselor. Thank you for being with us on this Saturday night.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Good evening.

PIRRO: All right.

CONWAY: It's nice to be with you, Judge. Thank you.

PIRRO: Thanks, Kellyanne. All right, now, McCabe - or I should say we have just found out, in addition to this possible Thursday hearing, we find out that Andrew McCabe's lawyer, okay, is now on Christine Blasey Ford's team. If that isn't about political footprints, I don't know what is.

CONWAY: Well, those who are searching for the truth and transparency and accountability, ought to file that one away, along with the fact that as we know earlier this week, it was revealed that her two female lawyers were headlining an event for Senator Tammy Baldwin. The news flash here of course is not that they're Democrats. We knew that.

It's that they're headlining a fund raiser for one of the 100 senators who is going to vote on Judge Kavanaugh becoming a Supreme Court Justice. So lots of different conflicts, but I think those who appreciate transparency and accountability are calling for it ought to know that, and guess who is leading that charge, one Judge Brett Kavanaugh.

You know, Jeanine, last Sunday was the first time Judge Kavanaugh heard the name of the - got the identity of his accuser, Dr. Ford. And less than 24 hours later, he gave his statement, his sworn statements to the Senate Judiciary Committee and that's under lots of penalties, of course, if you lie to Congress, it's - I believe, it's definitely punishable. But he did so less than 24 hours of even knowing her identity. Why? Because his story has never changed. It's always been the same.

He's been willing to raise his right hand and testify to clear his name and to say under oath and publicly for all to see and hear what he has said already, which is that he categorically and unequivocally denies this.

PIRRO: But Kellyanne ...

CONWAY: But it goes beyond that, Jeanine. You've got to read this whole thing and he said, "I've never done what is alleged I've done to anyone including this person." He says to anyone and he says he wasn't there. It doesn't seem to matter to anyone.

So I'm glad he's going and she's going and they will be testifying. He's given no conditions, no demands whatsoever. All he wants to do is show up. He would have done it any day this week, he would do it tomorrow - and any day

PIRRO: Right. Well, let me tell you, no conditions, no demands. Let me tell you, Kellyanne, you and I are both lawyers. We get it, okay. I tried cases for 30 years. I've sat in a courtroom as a judge overseeing cases. You never ever say to the defendant "you go first" when he doesn't even have a bill of particulars.

CONWAY: Or go first, and there's a reason for that. That's right. There's a reason for that. To what are you responding? A Washington Post report? The nonsense of the senators? I mean, Judge Kavanaugh spent 30 hours under oath, but not a single senator did, now did they? Not a single senator have listened. They speak nonsense.

PIRRO Why? Kellyanne, why? Why did they have this and they didn't ask him even without using her name. You know, Judge, have you ever had a problem or have been accused or have been at a party, anything?" Why?

CONWAY: Anything. And anything. Well Senator Mazie Hirono who famously told America's men this week to quote, "just shut up," that was really nice. Take note of that. She had asked Judge Kavanaugh a similar question, but she asked him, "Since you've been a legal adult, have you done this?" But by the way, she was just doing that because that's what she does. She's the newest - she'd go, pull the transcript. But more importantly, there were private conversations between Senator Feinstein for example, who sat on this letter and Chairman Grassley understand - and judge Kavanaugh. That's the kind of form through which you touch upon sensitive matters.

One would think this would qualify as a sensitive matter. Nobody mentioned it. So two things, quickly, one is - it is completely at the seat of Senator Feinstein and the Democrats that Dr. Ford's anonymity was ever breached and her identity ever disclosed, number one. The whole chain of custody for that identity rested with the Democrats. Number two, you can argue that the whole reason she's getting a hearing, the whole reason she'll have a public say is because of the Republicans, not the Democrats.

The Senate Judiciary Committee led by Chairman Grassley is honoring her request to testify. The White House has said all week, "Let her speak." Everybody has said "Let her speak." But to let her speak means, she's actually coming to speak, and not using cheap words like bullying. Nobody is bullying her. Nobody want her to be unsafe. It's not bullying to say "Please adhere ..."

PIRRO: Kellyanne, I don't have much time, does the White House know about this tentative deal and are they concerned about the concessions that are being made for this woman?

CONWAY: The White House respects the process. This is still part of the Senate confirmation hearing of Judge Kavanaugh as a nominee to the Supreme Court. This is not a criminal proceeding. This is not a civil proceeding. This is another part - of course it was all done until they came up with this in the eleventh and a half hour. This is part of the Senate confirmation hearing.

And what I think is important to notice , Judge Kavanaugh, this man of integrity, intellect and character, he has said he has never done this to anyone including her. So that's really definitive and unequivocal. And he's also said he wasn't at the party. So she will have it - these allegations are serious. We take them seriously. We want to hear from her.

PIRRO: We all do, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: But also, it's - but Jeanine, quickly, and my last point would be this, it is not a reasonable demand. It is uprooting hundreds of years of jurisprudence for the accuser to go second, in other words, you have to put your claim out there. The complainant, the plaintiff goes first and then you respond to that.

PIRRO: That's Kellyanne Conway, thanks so much for being with us this Saturday night.

CONWAY: We respect the process and we want a vote. We want a hearing and we want to vote. Thank you.

PIRRO: Thank you. All right, Katrina Pierson and Dr. Sebastian Gorka are still on deck tonight. First, who leaked to the "The New York Times" about the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein? Is it even true and should he be fired for it? New details tonight from Fox News contributor and investigative reporter, Sara Carter live as "Justice" rolls on in a moment.

Developing tonight, is Rod Rosenstein rogue in the DOJ? According to a bombshell report from the the New York Times back in the spring of 2017, the Deputy Attorney General suggested secretly recording his conversations with the President, and floated the idea to invoke the 25th Amendment. Rosenstein denies it all.

Fox News contributor and she's more than a Fox News contributor, she has been working for two years as a national security investigative reporter on this Mueller issue and she comes to us with decades of investigating - of being an investigative reporter and I could go on, Sara, but I'm not. So, let's talk about it.

Because you are a source of so much that has been exposed in the last two years and I salute you for that. I really do. Now, do you believe the story that Rosenstein suggested taping the President and using the 25th Amendment to get him out of office?

SARA CARTER, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS: According to the sources that I've spoken with, yes, I do believe this story, particularly because the New York Times had spent several months on this. That means they were in communication with the Department of Justice during those two months. They were trying to verify all of the information in their story. They had other sources.

We know this based on Andrew McCabe's memoirs, as well as Lisa Page's. Now, I know people are concerned. McCabe has lied in the past. That's why the Inspector General is looking into him. But look, he has nothing to lose. He is like a rat on a sinking ship with a bunch of other rats, Judge Jeanine, and he is going to take people down with him.

He doesn't want to be the only guy to go down. He had these memos. He had these memos for over a year and other people have had them, too at the FBI, apparently they leaked. A lot of people are pointing the finger at McCabe himself and others within the FBI and that's who got them.

PIRRO: Okay, now look, McCabe is a liar. We know he's a liar. He's going to be indicted for being a liar. Comey is a liar. He lied to Congress. I haven't heard about his being potentially indicted or his case being before a grand jury. I don't like Rod Rosenstein either.

But let me tell you this, I don't like him for a lot of reasons, not the least of which that he slow-walked all of the Congressional DOJ and FBI subpoenaed stuff to Congress and redacted just about everything. I don't trust him. He brought Mueller to be interviewed as FBI head and then appointed him the next day to investigate Trump, all right.

I don't like any of these players. It's not about like. They disrespect our system of justice, which seems to be going on all over. But Rod Rosenstein, what is coming now when the president declassifies - and I don't know how much he's agreed to declassify and I want to know from you. Is Rod Rosenstein going to be indicted and is he looking to be fired? Is he setting this up?

CARTER: Well, I think he definitely would appreciate being the martyr.
And if the President fired him, I'm sure he'd play that card. But let me put it to you this way. The president needs to declassify these documents. The sources I've spoken to who has seen these documents, who have the classification to view them had said there is nothing in there that is in any way damaging to sources and methods or national security. What is going to be damaging is to Rod Rosenstein, John Brennan and others going to be implicated once the information goes public.

The important thing for President Trump to understand is that Rod Rosenstein and these other people are playing him. The most important thing he can do is declassify that information so that the American people ...

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: All right, I know Congress has this, and when you say that Rosenstein is playing the President, are you saying he's looking to be fired? Did he plant the story?

CARTER: Look, the President under Article 2 has every right to get rid of Rod Rosenstein.

PIRRO: I know that. You and I know that.

CARTER: We both know that and it's important that the President doesn't have somebody in the Department of Justice that was willing to invoke the 25th Amendment that was willing ...

PIRRO: But here's the problem, Sara ...

CARTER: ... to wiretap the President of the United States.

PIRRO: Here's the problem. If it's going to bring on a Saturday night massacre and give the Dems a leg up, I don't blame the President.

CARTER: And I don't either. But the President needs to declassify.

PIRRO: All right, Sara Carter, we'll hopefully have you on again. Thank you.

CARTER: Okay, great. Thanks.

PIRRO: And Charlie Kirk is still ahead with "This Week's Most Outrageous Statements" including one from Joy Behar, but next, she's busy trying to make sure President Trump is reelected, but Katrina Pierson takes time out to take on Chris Hahn, right here, my political panel tackles Kavanaugh next.

MARIANNE RAFFERTY, CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: Live from "America's News Headquarters," I am Marianne Rafferty. Early estimates say Hurricane Florence caused as much as $44 billion in damage putting the storm among the top ten costliest hurricanes ever. And another round of flooding is just beginning as more inland flood waters flow into the Carolinas. North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper says some parts of the state could remain under water for another week or more.

A deadly attack on a military parade in Iran on Saturday. Militants disguised as soldiers opened fire during that event. At least 25 people are dead and more than 60 are wounded in what is the deadliest terror attack to hit the nation in nearly a decade. ISIS claimed responsibility through social media, but Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Komeine has accused US-backed Gulf Arab nations of carrying out the attack. I'm Marianne Rafferty. Now back to "Justice With Judge Jeanine."

PIRRO: Welcome back to "Justice." A lot to talk about with the panel tonight, so let's get right to it. Senior adviser to Trump's 2020 election campaign Katrina Pierson, along with adviser to Chuck Schumer, radio show host Chris Hahn. All right, Chris, not a good night tonight. How do you feel? Are you liking the Constitution?

CHRIS HAHN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I feel like ...

PIRRO: Okay.

HAHN: I love the Constitution.

PIRRO: Yes, don't we all.

HAHN: You know that.

PIRRO: Now, let me ask you this, now I haven't asked you a question. It was yes or no. That's it. You answered it. Now, the Democrats are being disgraceful. They are saying she needs to be believed. They haven't heard from her. They haven't spoken to her. But because she's a Democrat and a Democrat political activist criticizing a Republican she needs to be believed. But Juanita Broaddrick who had a bloody lip and complained of rape, immediate outcry because she complained against a Democrat, she doesn't deserve to be believed. How do you justify these contradictions?

HAHN: Well that was 1992.

PIRRO: The law was the law in 1992.

HAHN: I was in college when that was happening. But let me put it to you this way. President Clinton stood before the voters and was confirmed by the voters. This man is seeking a lifetime tenure and he will only be confirmed by Congress and by the Senate. So you need to pay higher attention and put more scrutiny on a Supreme Court Judge than anyone else in our government. Because of their lifetime tenure.

PIRRO: Chris, nobody disagrees with that. No one disagrees with that. Let her talk, but if it's a he said-she said, there is no way you're going to decide, it will be political.

HAHN: Well, Judge, there is another witness that could be called, his name is Mark Judge.

PIRRO: Mark Judge said it never happened ...

HAHN: Mark Judge, he was there when it happened.

PIRRO: And he doesn't want to get involved in the nonsense.

HAHN: You know what? He doesn't want to perjure himself is what it sounds like to me. I think the guy who writes about masculinity should man up and come to Congress and talk.

PIRRO: Oh, you don't know the guy. Stop, Katrina go.

KATRINA PIERSON, SENIOR ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP FOR 2020 REELECTION: Look, okay, so the accuser has apparently agreed to come in to tell her story next week, although this is in the hopes that they can agree to terms. That doesn't exactly put it on the docket which means, Judge, we are right back to where we started and exactly why the vote should have never been delayed in the first place.

Look, the process is right. Chris, you're right. There is a process to go through Congress and guess what, it's done. The interviews have been had, the hearings are completed. Now it's time to vote. Now, as a mother, as a woman, I believe this woman should tell her story to the Maryland Police Department. She is alleging a crime and that should be reported to the authorities. But as for Congress, this process is complete and they need to vote on Monday.

PIRRO: All right. Chris, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, Chris, Chris, Chris, wait. Wait. There is no way you're going to be able to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. None. So what you're doing is setting this man up for his own lynching. What you're saying is the accusation is enough if she comes in and she says and then he says, "No, no, no, I didn't," we're going to smear this man, a family man with two little girls for the rest of his life for political reasons and you know it and I know it.

HAHN: Judge, the only reason we're not voting on Monday is because they don't have the votes to confirm Brett Kavanaugh right now. If they did, they would vote. We know that.

PIRRO: We do?

HAHN: I agree with you. I agree with you that there should not be unfounded accusations just thrown out there, which is why I agree what the accuser that the FBI should reopen his background checks, which like they did when Anita Hill came forward.

PIRRO: Chris, the FBI does not investigate sex crimes. I did this for 35 years.

HAHN: Hold on a minute.

PIRRO: Don't go there and mislead my audience.

HAHN: It's not an investigation.

PIRRO: I'll give you another reason why the FBI can't investigate it, Chris, because they do not investigate incidents that occur before the 18th birthday. So cut the crap.

HAHN: It is a background check.

PIRRO: They did six of them. What do you think is going to change?

HAHN: And ten times in the last 30 days. They have reopened background checks in judiciary hearings. It is not uncommon for them to reopen a background checks at this point in this campaign and they should be doing that right now.

PIRRO: Go ahead, Katrina ...

PIERSON: Look, everybody knows what's going on here. This is just political delay tactics. Democrats didn't think this was important when they had the information six weeks ago. They still didn't think it was important because they didn't report it. It was actually leaked. Here's the thing, judge. It's not Congress's role to determine the validity of repressed childhood memories. It is Congress's role to advice and consent on the appointment of a United States Supreme Court Justice by this President. Everyone in that body knows what's going on here. Therefore they need to vote on Monday.

HAHN: Yes.

PIRRO: You know, Chris.

HAHN: Again, you know who why they're not voting on Monday? Because they don't have the votes to confirm on Monday.

PIRRO: Come on, Chris, you don't know the reason and neither do I.

HAHN: I do.

PIRRO: All right, now listen ...

PIERSON: We all know that they are not voting on Monday either.

HAHN: I don't think it should be in committee anymore. I think they should take it to the full Senate. Have Mitch McConnell ...

HAHN: They wouldn't have the votes there either. They don't have the votes.

PIRRO: What are they going to do? Change their mind if the woman says something that no one can confirm, no one can corroborate.

HAHN: Judge.

PIRRO: What.

HAHN: You're right. There's never going to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a court of public opinion and the Republicans in the Senate do not have the votes to confirm Kavanaugh right now. They think they would put him through.

PIRRO: You know what, Chris? What I don't understand when I was a judge, if you think some victim was going to come in my courtroom - and I spent my life fighting for victims - I have a reputation for that, okay, if you think a victim was going to come in and tell me how justice should be dispensed and Congress can hear or they can't hear, you can't ask me 36 years later, you're out of your mind. Katrina I have you on again because I took your side.

HAHN: This is not the court of law.

PIRRO: It's bigger than a court of law. It's Congress.

PIERSON: Thank you, Judge.

PIRRO: They are much bigger with the Constitution and the laws of the United States. Katrina Pierson, Chris Hahn. Bye.

HAHN: Thank you, Judge.

PIRRO: Next, an insider weighs in on the Rod Rosenstein New York Times story. Dr. Sebastian Gorka who was working in the White House at the time all of this unfolded, joins me live. You don't want to miss this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES I want to tell you, we have great people in the Department of Justice, but you've got some real bad ones, you've seen what's happened at the FBI. They're all gone. They're all gone. They're all gone. But there's a lingering stench and we're going to get rid of that, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: That's President Trump last night saying he'll clear out the lingering stench at the FBI and the DOJ. Joining me now with reaction to what the President said, the bombshell Rosenstein report, former national security strategist, former deputy assistant to the President Sebastian Gorka. Good evening, Dr. Gorka.

Look, I want to get right to it. Rod Rosenstein, do you believe that he suggested taping the President and do you think that it was in jest or sarcasm or that he intentionally did?

SEBASTIAN GORKA, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: I've met Rod Rosenstein when I worked in the White House. I've been following him very closely. I've analyzed his career trajectory and his non-denial in the last 24 hours is a slam dunk. This man wanted to subvert the duly elected President of the United States without consulting his boss, the AG, and wanted to wear a wiretap. I have upped the servitude, Judge.

PIRRO: Well, let me tell you something. You said something interesting, Seb, and I always agree with you, but you said that he wanted to surpass his boss, the AG. He thinks he's the AG. What are we talking about here. But that's on the side.

GORKA: Yes.

PIRRO: But why - I mean, could he have said it in jest. As some credible people have suggested to me, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to tape record the guy? I mean, is McCabe from the FBI setting up Rosenstein? Because you know McCabe is the one guy who's got to be furious. Everybody else has been lying like hell and he's the one who is going to be indicted.

GORKA: Yes, I just came from an event with Mark Levin, the great one, and he thinks it's actually Rob Mueller's team that leaked this. I don't know. I just look at this non-denial. If this really was just a jest, hey, number one, first thing, Judge, if you're the Deputy Attorney General, you don't even joke about stuff like this. Would you if you were the DAG? Of course, you wouldn't.

And this parsimonious non-denial denial, this was a serious comment made by somebody who is the quintessential swamp dwelling survivor. That's Rod Rosenstein.

PIRRO: You know what? I have an idea. I have an idea, Seb. You know what? I am sure this will get covered, I'm joking, though. Maybe Rod Rosenstein and Omarosa were working together. You know, tape recording everybody in the White House.

GORKA: Look, if you look at the lack of moral substance and the moral turpitude of people like McCabe and Omarosa, the idea that this person is telling us, he's calling the Senate an inquisitor in his statements, Rod Rosenstein, he's passed his sell by date. He needs to resign after this scandal or he needs to be fired, Judge.

PIRRO: Well, you know, one of the things about Rosenstein is he apparently has a temper. Because remember when he said to those staffers, "I'm going to come and get your stuff and don't you talk to me like that, I'm the Department of Justice." I mean, you get the sense that he all did that.

Let's talk about declassification. Now, the President was going to declassify. Now we've got the Inspector General deciding sources and methods. Who the hell needs him?

GORKA: Let's be very clear here, Judge. The whole classification structure of the Federal government belongs to one person, the incumbent President. He could declassify Roswell. He could declassify anything he wanted to right now.

PIRRO: Do you think Don McGahn, the White House counsel who was talking to- trying to convince the President not to do it - not to declassify when he said he was going to declassify?

GORKA: You have some very good sources, Judge Jeanine. That's all I'm going to say. And yes, there are certain individuals who have been stymieing the President's righteous decisions to declassify. The White House could make the redactions necessary in a matter of days. You just remove the currently sensitive methods and sources and you release.

The President must release all of them and it shouldn't go back to the IG. We have seen backside covering out of the DOJ and FBI for almost two years now. It has to stop. The corruption has to be disinfected with sunlight.

PIRRO: Yes, I couldn't agree with you more, Dr. Sebastian Gorka. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.

GORKA: Thanks, Judge.

PIRRO: All right, Joy Behar, Joe Biden and the relatives of a certain House candidate all make "This Week's Most Outrageous Statements" list. Turning Point USA's Charlie Kirk and I unveil the winners next.

Another week, another outrageous statement by none other than as Sean says, joyless Joy Behar. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY BEHAR, HOST, "THE VIEW": These people in Congress right now and that Senate Judiciary Committee, these white men - old by the way, are not protecting women. They're protecting a man who is probably guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: Probably guilty. Joining me now with reaction to that and a whole lot of other ridiculous things, Turning Point USA founder, Charlie. I've been angry for the last hour. I have to tell you.

CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: Me too.

PIRRO: He's probably guilty. You haven't spoken to the woman, you know nothing about her, you've only seen her with sunglasses. Thirty six years later. This guy has a reputation, a DNA that doesn't reflect anything like that and he's guilty and it's a whole bunch of white men. But Joy, you might not know this but when I first started prosecuting rape cases, it was white men who were passing the laws that allowed us to do a lot of it. Of course, we came in and moved the wall forward, but talk to me, Charlie.

KIRK: Well, I'll tell you what? Was it white men that held on to this accusation for six weeks? Was it white men that didn't allow this to come forth in hearings? Was it white men that actually leaked this to the press that made Dr. Ford no longer be anonymous or not be known as her original wishes were? I'll tell you what, this is so disgusting. And I'll say to Dianne Feinstein and Joy Behar, they have selective outrage. They are now saying that he's probably guilty.

Judge, as you well know, in this country, you are innocent until proven guilty and that is something that is very unique about western civilization and our judicial system. Now, the Democrats believe that the accusation means you must be immediately guilty, but only if you're a conservative. If you're Keith Ellison or Bill Clinton, then you're allowed to go after the victims and then you're innocent until proven guilty.

PIRRO: And you know what the problem with that is, Charlie? If you are Keith Ellison or Bill Clinton, they have actual evidence. Keith Ellison's girlfriend - police report, photographs, tapes, doctor's report. Bill Clinton - Juanita Broaddrick. She had the lip, she reported it immediately. She was all - these Democrats are turning the Constitution upside down. It's an outrage and I fear for this nation. But anyway, all right ...

KIRK: Zero evidence whatsoever. Thirty five years later from high school and that's going to prevent a man with a sterling record and reputation to serve in the Supreme Court, I don't think so. If there are any Republican senators listening to this, you better not capitulate and let the sinister left angry mob win on this. Because then, they will never stop using these dirty tactics.

PIRRO: All right, let's go on. I think I've got the second outrageous comment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM GOSAR, RELATED TO PAUL GOSAR: My name is Tim Gosar.

DAVID GOSAR, RELATED TO PAUL GOSAR: David Gosar.

GRACE GOSAR, RELATED TO PAUL GOSAR: Grace Gosar.

JOAN GOSAR, RELATED TO PAUL GOSAR: Joan Gosar.

JUSTIN GOSAR, RELATED TO PAUL GOSAR: Justin Gosar.

JENNIFER GOSAR, RELATED TO PAUL GOSAR: Jennifer Gosar.

G. GOSAR: Paul Gosar is my brother.

J. GOSAR: My brother.

J. GOSAR: And I endorse Dr. Brill.

T. GOSAR: Dr. Brill.

J. GOSAR: Wholeheartedly endorse Dr. David Brill for Congress.

DAVID BRILL, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: I'm Dr. David Brill and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: All right. So, here you've got this guy's brothers and sisters this and that doing an ad for the opponent. And apparently, Paul Gosar who is a candidate and I can't read the guy's - maybe we can put it up there because I don't have it, okay, he says, "You can't pick your family. We all have crazy aunts and relatives and my family is no different. I hope they find peace in their hearts and let go of all of the hate. To the six angry Democrat Gosars, see you at mom and dad's house." Go ahead, Charlie.

KIRK: That's going to be a fun Thanksgiving dinner, I have to say. That's going to be quite eventful. It's kind of disappointing though because you would think this would be one thing where politics should be removed, which would be your family ties. But nevertheless, these six angry Democrat siblings are finding that their political affiliation is much more important than the sibling ties that they have. This is a constant theme though for the left, their identity is their ideology and the family ties do not mean as much.

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: Charlie Kirk, thanks so much for being with us tonight.

KIRK: You bet, Judge. Thank you.

PIRRO: We'll be right back.

Finally tonight, I want to share a few pictures with you from my trip to Las Vegas this week and no, it was not vacation. Okay, we were out there to see the President and I went out with Sean and - to do the "Hannity" show. That's the lobby. Those are fresh flowers. You can't tell. All right, there I am with Alyssa Carey, she is one of the producers on "Hannity." We're having a green drink, then I'm with Tiffany Fazio who is like the big boss on "Hannity" and then there is lunch. You could see a big sandwich and French fries and salad and an egg white omelet to make up for the fries.

That's me and Gregg Jarrett getting wired up in front of an audience of about 20,000 in Las Vegas. There is the president and I chatting and that is Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Sean Hannity and myself and there is the beast, that's the President car.

Don't forget to buy my book, "Liars, Leakers & Liberals." This is Jeanine signing off. Thank you.

END

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