Ingraham: We need to sanction China
Laura Ingraham says China has an 'invisible hand' in emboldening Russia's invasion and assault in Ukraine, says the communist country should be 'gradually' sanctioned.
This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," February 28, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: I'm Laura Ingraham, and this is THE INGRAHAM ANGLE.
The worst is yet to come in the war for Ukraine as Russian forces are bringing their full force to bear. After what looks like a major miscalculation regarding the grit and resolve of the Ukrainian people, Russian forces, not surprisingly, are changing their tactics.
Reports now that they're engaging in far more ruthless attacks, including on civilian targets. Heavy artillery is being reported in residential areas tonight. And that Russian convoy that you've seen inching its way to the capital city that was thought to be about 17 miles long or so, well, guess what? It's measuring 40 miles long, and includes hundreds of tanks and Military vehicles carrying what? Well, we don't know.
We're going to bring you the latest on this escalating conflict throughout the hour from reporters on the ground, who are stationed in cities across Ukraine. We start with Fox's Trey Yingst who's in Kyiv. Trey, how close is that convoy tonight?
TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Laura. Some extremely concerning images coming out today about this convoy. Russian troops artillery units, tanks, headed toward the capital city of Kyiv. Estimates put it at about 17 miles away from the city limits. And if they make it here, all intentions, it appears they will. It's going to be quite a bloody urban battle.
The Pentagon warning about this today and every U.S. defense official basically says, the plan of Russian President Putin is to surround this city and then ultimately try to change the government here. Civilians caught in the crossfire at this hour all night.
We've heard air raid sirens, explosions in the distance, as Russian missiles slam into not only Military targets, but also civilian targets. This weekend, an apartment building was hit killing at least two people.
The Ukrainian health ministry says, more than 350 civilians have been killed since this invasion started. And you see it in the images here, the hospitals filled with women and children, trying to get away from the Russian bombings. In the words of one mother standing out tonight, take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We receive all medicine we need. Though we are running out of food. Local charity funds promised to bring some. We are waiting that they will come and bring us bread, essentials, and some juice for children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YINGST: Bread and juice for children. That's what civilians here need. Other civilians need weapons and ammunition. They're pledging to fight back against the Russians. There were talks today in Belarus just along the border with Ukraine.
The Russians and Ukrainians are meeting there for the first time since this conflict began. And you could see the difference in the two sides the Russian showing up with suits and ties, the Ukrainians in battle fatigues. Laura.
INGRAHAM: Trey, and an unfolding humanitarian crisis at the border with Poland, which we'll be covering as well. Thank you, Trey, and stay safe.
My next guest was able to escape Kyiv. He's currently on the outskirts of the city. We're not going to say exactly where he is, for security concerns. But some of his family, they had to stay behind.
Joining me now is Serge Sosniak. Serge, I know your parents are not with you. And they're still in Kyiv tonight?
SERGE SOSNIAK, UKRAINIAN FATHER: Hi, everyone. Yes. This is Serge. Yes, my parents are still in Kyiv. They're staying there in Kyiv. And what more I can say? Every night, they're just moving to the bombshell. The situation is definitely very, very bad, and it's turning to be worse and worse every day.
My cousin, who was actually in Bucha a couple of days ago, he managed to escape on Saturday from Bucha. And the day after he escaped, the rocket just was hitting his apartment building. And he was sitting in the bombshell in this building. So you can imagine what is the atmosphere - was there.
INGRAHAM: Serge, how concerned are you and the family members that you're able to keep in touch with about the targeting of civilians by Putin, given the fact that he's met up against serious resistance, I think, surprising resistance from their calculation? How concerned are you about civilians and the deaths of civilians, which we do understand tonight, are mounting?
SOSNIAK: I'm very concerned about that, because I think the guy was there, which, on the north, he lost his mind. And it doesn't look that he cares about anything. He doesn't care about any people, about Ukrainian people at all, about his people as well. So I'm very concerned, because if you could imagine that more than 20 kids - more than 20 kids in a lot of the cities across Ukraine were killed.
So every day starts when I just call my parents and they just ask, how are you, and they tell, we are alive. So that's a good signal. I'm not asking them if you have food, if you have medicine. That's the first question that I ask, are you alive? You could imagine what it means when - And actually we are not in the worst position - we are actually not in the worst position, because there are people that are way worse.
For example, I think you've been showing what's happening in Kharkiv yesterday and overnight as well as in Kyiv. And Mariupol, and some other cities.
INGRAHAM: And Serge, but just for our edification tonight. You're not leaving Ukraine, correct? You intend to stay in Ukraine, or are you trying to --?
SOSNIAK: Yes, that is correct. I'm not trying to move. I'm not trying to move out of Ukraine.
INGRAHAM: What do you think is next year? I mean, given how fast this has escalated? A lot of people never thought that Putin would actually go for Kyiv. But where do you think it ends?
SOSNIAK: I think it will end with - it will end with the full collapse of Russia and Ukrainian winning this situation.
INGRAHAM: Serge, thank you for joining us tonight. I hope you and your family are able to stay safe and keep us updated to the extent that you can.
Joining me now is Florida Senator Marco Rubio, Vice Chair of Senate Intel. Senator, over the weekend, Putin ordered his nuclear forces to be on high alert. And Biden was asked about this today. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, should Americans be worried about nuclear war?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Senator, the confident and quick no from President Biden, should he be this confident given how precarious things seem on the ground in Ukraine tonight?
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Well, I don't think there's any reason to panic people that are watching the show that we're on the verge of a nuclear exchange of ICBMs. But I do think it's bear watching. And this is my personal view based on everything.
This is not the same Putin as five or 10 years ago, right? This is a guy whose entire legitimacy in Russia is built on his argument that the 90s were era of humiliation. He restored Russia to great global power status. And now he's facing the freefall of his economy.
I mean, what's facing Russia's economy over the next 10 days is cataclysmic. And then you add to that, the humiliation on the battlefield that they have faced so far, even though they're keeping much of that from the Russian public. And you see a guy who's facing some circumstances that he needs to reverse pretty quickly.
He knows he needs to reestablish some level of power balance with the West, before he can even think about what else to do. And he doesn't have a lot of tools to do it, except cyber, maybe some space warfare, ratcheting up whatever monstrosity he's going to commit in Ukraine, and tactical battlefield nuclear weapons. It is part of Russia's Military doctrine to escalate in order to de escalate by using tactical nuclear weapons.
I'm not arguing that they're on the verge of doing that. I'm just saying that with a guy in that condition, with that mindset in charge, you're going to get a different decision from him today than you would have 10 years ago. And it's just something we need to keep an eye on.
INGRAHAM: Senator Rubio, I know you just got out of an Intel briefing not long ago. There's lot of stuff you can't tell us tonight. But what can you share about this conflict, the European involvement and trying to isolate Putin and the assistance which you've been so dead on about, of China in all of this, and the cover that China has given to Vladimir Putin on the finance side?
RUBIO: Yes, well, he never would have done this had he not felt that China to some extent would be there to help buffer the pain of it. There's no doubt about it. In fact, he moved a bunch of troops from the far east of Russia, something they'd never done before because as you know, it's - China has claimed - China claims Siberia belongs to them. So always been a strong Russian Military presence there. He pulled a lot of that towards the Belarusian towards disengagement.
But I would add, look, nobody knows what happens here next, but some things are becoming pretty obvious. And you can see it from the commercial imagery you're talking about here tonight. It's pretty clear now that what's happening is a massive Russian forces pushing in from the north. They're going to try to take the western part of Kyiv.
And the reason being that all the supplies that we keep talking, about everything that we're providing and other countries are providing, it has to come over from the west. So if they can cut Kyiv off of those supplies, it begins to really deteriorate the city standing.
And then obviously, you have this other two forces that are pushing in from the northeast, eventually they'll try to take the east. And once they've got Kyiv encircled, then I think you're going to see a medieval type siege. And that means people starving, they're hoping the government will collapse or surrender, capitulate. And then they can install some sort of puppet government, which has been his goal the whole time.
So that's clearly the aim they have. Obviously, the Ukrainians have fought a lot harder and more effectively than we anticipate. Their spirits are very high. So they still have a chance to disrupt this. But this is clearly what they're planning to do. And as you've seen from the imagery being shown on Fox News and other places, what they're bringing down from the north is a massive, massive show of force.
INGRAHAM: Yes. Senator, one of your Democrat colleagues, Chris Murphy, just tweeted that, "DOD and DHS are pressing hard for Congress to end the continuing resolution and get a budget passed. There's no way for our national security agencies to be nimble enough to support Ukraine if they're operating on a 2020-2021 budget."
Senator, while all of us are very, very concerned about Ukraine and the security situation on the ground there, the question also is money for what exactly? And how will that specifically be used, including by a Military leadership that had trouble getting out of Afghanistan?
RUBIO: Yes, so look, it's true that in the ideal world we do have a - appropriations bill for the year. Because what that allows you to do is programming. It allows you to spend money on things that you've authorized them to build. Like, for example, how are we going to counter hypersonics and things of that nature. And you need program - programmatic money to do that. That's true.
That said, that's not an impediment. For example, we could, today, instead of voting on this abortion on demand bill that they put up on the floor, we could be moving right now for some sort of supplemental funding, if they wanted to provide more weapons to the Ukrainian fighters. In fact, the President has the authority to provide quite a bit of that now.
So the fact of the matter is that we're not doing it, because they didn't bring it to the floor. If they wanted to, they could do that. And we - I think you find a lot of support in Congress for spending that involves things like providing the more of the things you're seeing on television, right. The things that blow up tanks, the ammunitions that bring down airplanes and provide some air cover.
So yes, it's ideal to have an appropriations bill. Everybody will agree. But that's not an impediment to anything that we need to do.
INGRAHAM: But Senator, as a follow on to that. And again, as you pointed out, I think better than most anyone in the Senate, without China and without the growth of China over the last number of decades, in part because of our pretty poor trade policies, China has grown into our new Cold War threat. I mean, we won the Cold War against Russia only to squander it to China.
So if we're going to put sanctions on Russia, isn't it incumbent upon the U.S. Senate to start pulling back on things like normal trade relations status with China and saying, you keep supporting Putin in what's going on, you're next. Tariffs move forward on 301 investigations.
I mean, Russia's economy is the size of Italy's. I mean, China's the big dog here, is it not?
RUBIO: No, look, that's (inaudible). This is a - an acute problem that we're facing right now. It's a very serious one. But the long-term problem, the 100-year problem, the 50-year problem is China. And let me tell you, all these sanctions you've seen imposed on Russia, there's no way you could ever get anyone to impose those on China. Their economy at this point, its tentacles are too big and too deeply ingrained in all of these countries, including our own.
INGRAHAM: We have to pull back though, senator, right? I mean--
Rubio: Absolutely.
INGRAHAM: Isn't it time to tell American corporations? And I was looking at some of your tweets over the weekend. It's time to start bringing your operations back home, because we're for sending money to Ukraine, we're going to help the Ukrainian people.
But then China, for the money we waste in China, that's just going to help Vladimir Putin buy energy and all the other stuff. So it's a big circle of disaster that we're in part funding by our trade policy with China.
RUBIO: Well, it's even more dangerous than that. There is a lot of things that we need to use both in our technology and everyday life that we can't possibly use because it's made in China. They control the means of production.
The supply chain issue is the single greatest vulnerability this country faces. It was exposed by COVID. It'll really be exposed in the future in some conflict. And look, Russia can't impose economic pain on America. China could because of how deeply ingrained our corporate class has become in the Chinese model and in the Chinese economy.
In fact, they become lobbyists for the Chinese position on a lot of issues. They deputize our corporations to come up here and lobby Congress for China's interests, because they're making money in that country and because their factories are over there. We have to pull back from that or we're going to find ourselves 50 times more vulnerable to China than we ever have been to Russia.
INGRAHAM: Yes. Every dollar we lose in a trade deficit to China goes was right to - in some part feeling chaos around the world, including in Ukraine. And Senator, you've been terrific on that issue. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
RUBIO: Thanks. Thanks very much.
INGRAHAM: Now, I want to bring in Fox's Benjamin Hall who joins us from Lviv, Ukraine. Benjamin, Lviv is supposed to be relatively safe. But I guess that's changed, now that Russia seems to be escalating things tonight.
BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. The thing really is - here is that no one knows what Putin will do next. We are a few hours west of the capital Kyiv, and there has been no real attacks here.
There have been a couple of strikes at some Military facilities around this city. But no, for now this remains calm. Nevertheless, the exodus is absolutely heartbreaking. There are hundreds of thousands of people leaving this country, because they just don't know what Putin will do next, particularly as he's been on the backfoot over the last couple of days. They fear he might take the gloves off now. And that's causing a lot of concern.
Yet we've seen some actions from Zelenskyy, the president here over the last couple of days, reaching out to other countries, trying to get more support coming in. For example, today, he applied for membership to the EU. It was rather symbolic, though, to be honest.
The fact is the Europe are not going to admit Ukraine at the moment in large part, because the EU, like NATO, has a mutual defense treaty. And so, of course, right now with Ukraine in the midst of a war, they would not expect either the EU or NATO to come to their assistance.
He has also been calling and this is being talked about a fair amount. He's been calling for a NATO no-fly zone. Again, that is going to be a non- starter. There's been wide discussions on both sides. And there are some politicians who have spoken out in favor of it.
In particular, we had Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who said - tweeted this the other day. He said, "We should declare a no-fly zone over Ukraine designed to disrupt Russia's air operations and give the heroic Ukrainians a fair fight." He said, "It is now, or later."
Senator Chris Murphy on the other hand, saying that the move would be a bad idea in amount to a war between the U.S. and Russia, because of course, U.S. warplanes would have to patrol and shoot down Russian jets.
So Jen Psaki, John Kirby also coming up very clearly and saying that would not be happening. And this is their policy, and they telegraphed it very early on. They said there's no way the U.S. was going to get involved militarily. And so for right now, we see President Zelenskyy reaching out to European allies, reaching out for more support, but really as far as the fighting comes they're going to have to do with supplies, finance, intelligence support. But that's it.
And the coming days really will determine whether or not Putin doubles down, starts escalating, use heavier artillery, heavily - heavier weaponry, and really start indiscriminately attacking civilians; or whether perhaps Ukrainians can still hold him back. We'll have to see. But it's a pivotal time in this war.
And I know we keep saying this. War is only five, six days now old, but it's a key moment.
INGRAHAM: Well, Benjamin, as Marco Rubio just said, the key part of this is the Western access. So once you cut off goods, fuel, food, medicine from the West, which Russian forces can do with the manpower they have. Well, I mean, what are you going to do then? I mean, right, that's the pivotal moment when they're able to choke the West off.
HALL: Absolutely. And that's exactly one of the concerns about the western parts of the country is that, if he wants to cut those supply lines off, he has to move this way. At the moment, that border with Poland is totally open. And that is the way or one of the ways that many of these weapons are coming in. So everyone's watching closely to see if he decides to come this way as well.
It's not just weapons, by the way. Supplies of fuel, cash, medical supplies, those are dwindling in this country as well. They really need to keep those supply lines open to avoid further humanitarian disaster in this country. So it's multifaceted right now. And frankly, heartbreaking to see that side of it.
INGRAHAM: Benjamin, we really appreciate it tonight. Thank you from Lviv.
And the most terrifying part of this for all Americans, all of us, is a potential for an accidental encounter with the Russians that then leads to a triggered nuclear catastrophe. You saw what Adam Kinzinger was hoping for with the no-fly zone. But what does that actually entail? What are the risks?
We're going to get to that. And it's pretty terrifying later with Mike Pompeo. But first, my next guest says Putin didn't just play Biden, but also the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell.
Joining me now is Charlie Gasparino senior Fox Business correspondent. Charlie, you know, people are thinking foreign policy crisis, Military crisis. But Jerome Powell doesn't necessarily come to mind. Why is this important?
CHARLES GASPARINO, FOX BUSINESS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, our economy should come to mind. And the economy is in a very precarious position, despite the very good headline numbers. You see, GDP is very strong, allegedly. Unemployment is very low. But we have raging inflation.
And here is what I - I mean, I'm not inside Vladimir Putin's brain cells. But he did pick an interesting time to do what he's doing. He knows that the Federal Reserve has to raise interest rates. He knows that inflation is going out of control.
On top of that, he knows that the left wing of this country, which controls the White House, won't let us drill more and produce more energy. Put all that together, he is not worried about the economic implications on his end of invading Ukraine, because he knows the Biden administration is not going to flirt with even more inflation by cutting off his oil - his ability to sell oil.
And one of the reasons why Powell is, like, to blame for this is because he's been creating the inflation that is in the economy already. He has waited two years to essentially taper money printing. He's been printing for two years. In the beginning during COVID, it was ok. But he just kept going. He kept supporting the Biden administration's spending plans, which added to inflation. And he really has put us economically in a pickle here.
If you notice, and I - listen, who knows what Joe Biden's going to say tomorrow to the State of the Union. Maybe he'll say, we're going to cut off - Russia's ability to sell oil and finance it.
But the reason - but they're not. And they're not, because they're worried about even more inflation. Because the only way to stop him right now, unless you want to engage militarily, is to destroy the Russian economy. You cannot destroy it, if they - if we are allowing them to sell oil at $100 a barrel. You are essentially financing--
INGRAHAM: Funding. Yes.
GASPARINO: Financing the killing of the Ukrainians, and a bloodbath that could happen, as you know, any day now.
INGRAHAM: Right. So Charlie, we're getting it both ways. So with our continued hyper engagement, and trade and everything else, as Marco Rubio said, we're entangled with China. So they're our new real cold war adversary. But so they're doing business with the Russians on the energy front and all buying all the wheat. And we're doing business with the Russians and we cut off our own supply. So we're hurting us ourselves on multiple fronts. And yet, we completely pretended there was no inflation. Not we - I know you didn't and I didn't.
But a year ago, they were saying that we were talking down the economy. We were talking down the economy. That's what they said about us.
GASPARINO: Transitory inflation, supply chains, they - they really missed the boat on this. He's obviously missed the boat. I'm just saying this, though. Unless we start drilling and doing our own, essentially taking care of the oil supply, we make up for what Russia is doing.
We basically finance anything that Vladimir Putin wants to do. We are financing this war by not - by cutting back on domestic energy production. Because energy is, what, something like 5 percent of CPI, if we cut off Russia immediately and don't drill. Guess what, oil goes up to $150 a barrel. And that means double - and then it's double the amount of for a gallon of gas. So--
INGRAHAM: But, Charlie, I have to ask you, because Powell looks - it's just a smooth sailing in for another term, right? I mean, that's - is that - I mean, is it a foregone conclusion, because in this administration you seem to be able to fail upward pretty easily. Failing upward. Keep going. More.
GASPARINO: Well, there's a lot of - there's a lot of bizarre appointments by Joe Biden. I will say this, though. He was considered the least bad choice by Republicans, because there could have been more lefties that they put up there, and they're still trying to get some very socialist members of the Federal Reserve Board in there. I mean, socialists and--
INGRAHAM: Yes, well.
GASPARINO: I throw the word socialists around a lot, progressive.
INGRAHAM: OK. Well, Charlie, thanks for bringing us back to like brass tacks, which dollars and cents actually does matter in all this. Charlie, thank you. Great to see you tonight.
And in moments, we're going to go back to Ukraine, where our correspondents are standing by. But first, it's no secret that Biden's anti-oil and anti- gas agenda, as Charlie just said, it's totally strengthened Putin's hand in Ukraine. And it's also obvious that everyone - to everyone that the solution is not less drilling, it's more drilling. Well, for almost everybody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, on oil in general, and we need to look at other ways of process - of having energy in our country and others.
One of the interesting things, George, we've seen over the last week or so is that a number of European countries are recognizing they need to reduce their own reliance on Russian oil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Joining me now is Ryan Zinke, former interior secretary and former SEAL Team Six commander. Also with me is Alaska Senator Dan Sullivan. Also, he sits on the Senate Commerce and Armed Services Committee.
Mr. Secretary as of last week, there were nearly 400 fewer active oil and gas drilling rigs in the United States, and during the same time, right before COVID hit, 2019.
This is music to Putin's ears, is it not, to dovetail on from what Gasparino just said. I mean, we are subsidizing the bullets being used against the Ukrainian people.
RYAN ZINKE, FMR TRUMP INTERIOR SECRETARY: Well, you're right. And America's not weak. American leadership and President Biden is weak. When we took over in - with the Trump administration, we were 8.3 million barrels a day and declining.
In two short years, we were 12.5 million barrels a day. The world's largest energy leader across the board, and we did it with record breaking safety records. We did it with lowering emissions, because, Laura, energy means lower inflation. And what you're seeing Europe is Europe is held hostage by Russian oil.
37 percent of natural gas comes from Russia, even more in heavy crudes. And Europe is (ph) pend, if they would build infrastructure or LNG terminals, we could supply Europe with clean burning liquid natural gas in a pretty short amount of time.
INGRAHAM: But, Senator, being from Alaska, of course, as a veteran yourself, this is a national security imperative. But we have a - greening the world agenda, which is a religion. This is something far more dogmatic than any Evangelical Church, mega church that the left is so scared about. They are willing to sell America down the river for the green agenda. Period. Full stop.
SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): Laura, I couldn't agree more with you. And it's great to be on this show with Ryan Zinke, my good friend, great American. But you know, the Biden administration needs to wake up to the fact that we're in this new era of authoritarian aggression led by dictators from Russia, but China as well. And you've done a great job focusing on that.
I'm sending a letter to the President tomorrow before the State of the Union with a number of Republican senators saying, you need to course correct on some key issues in one of the biggest. It's exactly what you said, the holy war. And you're right, with the far-left, it's a holy war against American energy.
It's driving up the price of energy for American working families. It's laying off workers in my state, the great state of Alaska. And here's the other thing, it's empowering dictators like Putin. So it's killing us in three different areas makes no sense. But you're right, it's a holy war for so many on the far left.
INGRAHAM: And secretary Zinke, you are the officer in-charge of the first joint U.S. wrestle special forces op after the fall of the Soviet Union. So what's your assessment of what we're currently seeing from Russia and Ukraine? Things that presumably will intensify.
Putin doesn't like a PR disaster. And this is becoming a PR disaster for him. He's very - he has that air about him. So how will the Special Forces from the Russian Military be used?
Well, Russians are definitely tough. But urban warfare can be a lot tougher. I also fought (inaudible) door-to-door. And the Russians, if they get bogged down in Kyiv, their tanks aren't going to be a lot of help in the close quarters.
Remember, tanks are vulnerable by our missile systems from looking - from a point of being in a building looking down. Tanks become very vulnerable. And urban warfare, if it prolongs, I think it will stop the Russian movement. And Putin is going to have to make a very difficult decision, whether to go on and crush the resistance at great cost, or negotiate.
INGRAHAM: Well, Senator Sullivan, right now the concern on the part of Americans, I think, and it's a - you can't blame them after Iraq and Afghanistan, and all the years our soldiers and all of our troops were deployed. There is not a lot of appetite, to say the least, for further Military escalation, certainly on the part of the United States as desperate as we - desperately bad as we feel for the Ukrainian people.
The polling on this is just not where I think a lot of maybe the Republican war hawks want it to be, and even some of the Democrats. So what of that?
SULLIVAN: Well, look, we need - we do not need American troops in Ukraine. But what we need to do is recognize we have certain strategic advantages over Putin, the Russians, but also, Laura, over China and Xi Jinping. And we need to start focusing on those.
We do need as much stronger Military. Biden put forward a budget last year that cut defense spending. We don't need that. But back to the other issue, we actually need to make sure that we are using the amazing resources that we have in this country, whether it's critical minerals, whether it's oil and gas. These are the kinds of things that we need to focus on in this long term.
And I think it's going to be decades, this era of authoritarian aggression. And I think it's going to be important. One other thing, our democratic values.
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