Holloway Investigation: Revolving Door in Aruba?
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," April 24, 2006. It has been edited for clarity.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: After a week behind bars, 19-year-old Geoffrey van Cromvoirt who was released today, police say he is still a suspect. How does this impact the case against fellow suspects Deepak and Satish Kalpoe? Their lawyer, David Kock, joins on the phone from Aruba.
Welcome, David.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTORNEY: Hi, Greta. It was nice to speak with you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nice to talk to you. Do you have any clue who "A.B." is, the one who was arrested on Saturday and released?
KOCK: No, not yet. But he was just held for interrogation, so he was not formally arrested. You can always be held for interrogation after six hour, and they didn't find necessity to keep detaining him after that. But we don't know yet who he is.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: But you get with it, which sort of is unusual, you get labeled "suspect." They pick you up; they talk to you. And even when they let you go because you didn't say enough to keep you, you're a suspect.
KOCK: Yes, well, you can hold somebody up and question them as a witness. But once you put the label on them "suspect," there are certain things that you can do to such a person, and I think that's why very — I don't want to say easily, but very rapidly you would want to qualify somebody a suspect. I mean, it's the interest of the investigating authorities.
VAN SUSTEREN: I take it that your clients have not spoken to you about "A.B."?
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}KOCK: About "A.B."? "A.B." is somebody not known. But I think the simple fact that he was just held for six hours of interrogation and immediately let go is an indication, just as with the fact of Mr. Van Cromvoirt, that you see that this investigation is not really going anywhere now.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Geoffrey van Cromvoirt, do they know him?
KOCK: No, they do not know him at all.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: And what do you make of the fact that he was arrested, detained, and then he was supposed to go back to court tomorrow, where the prosecutor is supposed to convince the judge of instruction to hold him further, but apparently she folded today?
KOCK: Yes, I understood that he wasn't answering any questions, and the simple fact that the D.A., at the beginning, it was presented that this was a very important arrest, and it really died down to letting to go, not even trying to see if the judge could be convinced to keep holding him. So that says a lot, I think, don't you?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, it's actually curious, David. I mean, it does seem rather bizarre that the prosecutor would arrest him in connection with this case and then suddenly just give up on it.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}KOCK: Yes, like I told you, I think we're coming at a certain phase of the investigation. You know, you tried the last resources, but if that don't work, at a certain moment, you know, you just have to stop. Remember, it's going to be one year just now.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you spoken to her recently and asked her what's going on with your clients?
KOCK: No, I think, because of the scope of this case, that's not really the type of the conversation I would like to have with her.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: All right, David, thank you.
KOCK: You're very welcome, Greta. Take care.
VAN SUSTEREN: Let's bring in our legal panel. Joining us from Sacramento, former assistant D.A. Jim Hammer. In Washington, criminal defense attorneys Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}Bernie, Mr. Geoffrey van Cromvoirt?
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I guess it would be easier to figure out the young men on the island who haven't been arrested, and I think there's two left. And I think they've arrested everybody else. Ted's got the number down; I think it's eight.
But "GVC" came through. He didn't talk. Now, maybe he knows something, but he kept his mouth shut, and he learned a lesson from Van der Sloot. Now this "E.B." or "A.B." gets...
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: "A.B." It actually was "E.B.", but there was correction issued by the prosecutor's office. They got his initials wrong. It's "A.B."
GRIMM: Right. Well, I was actually scared before, when Joe Tacopina said "GVS", and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, that's one step away from BSG."
So, at any rate, it's going nowhere. I mean, I think they're trying to say they got some bounce of this big movie re-enactment they have, but they're going nowhere.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: I actually feel sorriest for "A.B." He gets picked up, Jim, for six hours, and released, and he gets to be a suspect now for all eternity, until he wants to go out and hire a lawyer to clear himself.
JIM HAMMER, FORMER SAN FRANCISCO ASSISTANT D.A.: You'd have to be pretty stupid or never watch "On the Record with Greta Van Susteren" not to know that, in Aruba, you get arrested, you keep your mouth shut, you go free. That's the unfortunate lesson now. Anybody who has been following this case in Aruba, Greta, knows: Keep your mouth shut; you go free; the prosecutor won't even try to hold you in custody if you keep your mouth shut.
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you really don't have to keep your mouth shut. What you need to do is to close your eyes, get a dart board with a dart, and just throw it at the dart board, and whoever it sticks on — now, we've got G, V, or C here.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: It could be very well soon be "GVS," for "Greta Van Susteren." It can be anybody.
GRIMM: Actually, Greta is wanted. They tried to arrest Greta when she was there last time, Ted.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}WILLIAMS: Greta has me as a lawyer. She's all right. But the fact about it is, desperate people do desperate things. And this, when you asked me this, and this was the reason that people really need to watch this show, is because you asked me not too long ago: What did I think about the arrest of "GVC"? And I remember telling you I didn't think much, and I don't think nothing tonight.
VAN SUSTEREN: But there was no — I mean, when he was arrested, we had reason to believe there was a good faith reason to pick him up. I mean, you don't just — prosecutors and police supposedly don't just go out and sort of round up the nearest...
GRIMM: Greta...
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}WILLIAMS: This is Aruba you are talking about. This is not America. I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: We make jokes from time to time. But this is a Dutch country.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}What, Jim?
HAMMER: It's very serious. Timing is everything on these interrogations. And Ted and Bernie will tell you, well, I've been in there with the cops investigating murder suspects. You get one shot, typically, with these people. You either have the goods on them and convince them to talk or you don't. And once they clam up, it's typically over. So to do this willy-nilly without good ammo, Greta, is a really big mistake for the investigators or the prosecutor in this case.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I mean, I don't know if it was willy-nilly or just simply picking up somebody that someone dropped the dime on or something, and all of a sudden they decided, "Oh, let's pick up this one up."
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}GRIMM: Well, for me, the difference is — and Jim knows this — that, in order for Jim to have somebody arrested in the past, back in the old days when he was a prosecutor and a young, good-looking guy, he would have to have an arrest warrant, and he's have to have probable cause, one, that a crime was committed and, two, that someone committed. Down in Aruba, it's mere suspicion, so if you were seen with...
VAN SUSTEREN: What's even worse than that is that the police and the prosecutor can just decide to go pick somebody up. You get to hold them for six hours or eight days. And then finally you have to face the music, which was tomorrow. And the prosecution, obviously — she opened up her file and went, "Oh, my god. There's nothing there."
GRIMM: Right. Right. And I think what happened is "GVC" was seen at some time with Natalee...
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Apparently not. His lawyers issued a statement saying that they've never met.
GRIMM: Last week, the Aruban police came out and said she was seen with him at some point in time.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: And I think Dave Holloway said they had bumped into each other at Carlos and Charlie's or something, too.
WILLIAMS: This is very troubling now. And who is going to be tomorrow? We've got "A.B.", and we're waiting for "C.C." and "D.D." And who's next?
VAN SUSTEREN: Jim, you're going to get the last word on this topic.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}HAMMER: The last word, thinking about the timing, is these arrests came shortly after Dompig left the case. There's an allegation that this "GVC," I guess it was, someone how related to his son. I wonder whether or not his leaving the case is related to timing now or something else.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, they haven't picked up his son. No one has said his son did anything wrong. His son is just, at this point, a male on the island, and so, you know, at that point...
GRIMM: One of the last two not arrested.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: ... may be at risk. Ted and Bernie, thank you.
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