Hogan Gidley hammers Joe Biden's 'record of failure,' says President Trump's message resonates with voters

close

Video

Hogan Gidley hammers Joe Biden's 'record of failure,' says President Trump's message resonates with voters

Trump campaign press secretary Hogan Gidley joins Martha MacCallum with insight on 'The Story.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," August, 18, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Well, we get to do that again just a few hours. Thank you, Bret.

All right, everybody, tonight the Democrats will roll out those that they hope will be future stars in a group keynote address, which is something new. We're also going to hear tonight from Joe Biden's wife, Dr. Jill Biden, and from AOC as well in the big primetime hour. But Bill Clinton will appear tonight in a low profile, five-minute slot. Flashback now to 2012 when President Obama was seeking reelection. The former president stole the show and his powerful speech, despite a weak economy, helped to put President Obama over the top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: President Obama started with a much weaker economy than I did. Listen to me now. No president, no president, not me, not any of my predecessors. No one could have fully repaired all the damage that he found in just four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was a very big moment back then, but that was then. And this is now as Democrats battle for the White House in a now tightening presidential race. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum in the nation's capital. And this is The Story tonight. As we get ready for night two of the virtual convention, television viewership was down almost 30 percent since the same night back in 2016. The show last night was about half on tape. We expect about the same balance this evening.

The president, though, today, while in Yuma, took a swipe back at the attacks that were leveled against him last night. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: As you know better than anyone, the survival of our nation is at stake in this election. Tell me, when you hear a divisive speech, they talk about me as being a divider. I'm not a divider, I bring people together. We were bringing people together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: New polling shows President Trump is running ahead of his 2016 performance in some of the top battleground states. We're going to show you those numbers. In moments, Trump Campaign Press Secretary Hogan Gidley joins me. First, we go to Bill Hemmer, anchor Bill Hemmer Reports and host of Campaigns that made us. You mean you and me or--

BILL HEMMER, HOST, BILL HEMMER REPORTS: Made all of this right. How are you doing, Martha?

MACCALLUM: On Fox Nation. I'm good, Bill.

HEMMER: Yes, you look great in Washington, D.C. I'm going to take you back six months ago. Remember this Martha, pre-COVID, right? This is early February. We're in the state of Iowa. Joe Biden finished in fourth place that night. Normally, that would be the death of a campaign. A week later, we're in New Hampshire, right? Six months ago, Joe Biden finished fifth that night. And it was only at the end of February down here in South Carolina, Saturday night, February 29, where Joe Biden just swept the field. And now it has been his stage ever since.

It's important to remember that. And just if you think about how we got to this stage at this point, you lose Iowa, you lose New Hampshire, you leave New Hampshire for the ballots or even in and then you win South Carolina and you run the table. That's how Biden has done it. Well, how does Donald Trump then get a second term in the White House, 270 is your number? These are all the states we think we're locked in. Everything in gray, we think it's a tossup right now.

Let's say, Texas is not as blue as they think. We'll give that to Trump. Give Georgia to Trump as well. What did he do four years ago that he needs to do again? He's got to thread that needle. He won Florida by about a point, North Carolina by three and a half, Ohio by seven and a half. And then he'd be at 242. You mentioned battleground Arizona. He was there today. If he could hold that stays at 253, Iowa a bit earlier today. And still, he is not at the number 270.

Upper Midwest, Martha, this is where our focus goes yet again. Wisconsin yesterday, Minnesota as well. If you were to hold on to Wisconsin, he would still be one vote shy. If you were to flip Minnesota, rather, he would still be one vote shy. So, this is the scenario we start to throw in here.

What I haven't talked about is Pennsylvania. So many times, Martha, we're going to keep coming back to Pennsylvania and the 20 electoral votes, that seems to be the key for Trump or Biden in order to get victory in 2020.

One of the things I'll show you here, Martha, toward the end of August is where we find ourselves Democratic Convention, followed by the Republicans next week. And look what you get six weeks from tonight. That is debate number one between Biden and Trump in whatever form that takes as of now in Cleveland, Ohio. That's the lay of the land, my lady. Back to you.

MACCALLUM: Fascinating. Great to see you, Bill.

HEMMER: You too.

MACCALLUM: Wow. We've got an exciting several weeks ahead looking at that electoral map. It is very tight. My thanks to Bill Hemmer. And welcome now to Trump 2020 National Press Secretary Hogan Gidley. Hogan, good to have you with us tonight.

So, I mean, obviously, this is looking like a very tight race and the polls have been tightening in recent weeks. I want to play a little something from Michelle Obama last night talking about getting out the vote. This was one of the most impactful moments of her speech. And obviously one of the biggest goals of that speech. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: We have got to vote like we did in 2008 and 2012. We've got to show up with the same level of passion and hope for Joe Biden. We've got to vote early in-person if we can. We've got to request our mail in ballots right now, tonight, and send them back immediately and follow-up to make sure they're received and then make sure our friends and families do the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Hogan, obviously a big get out the vote effort from Michelle Obama in what was really received as a pretty strong speech last night, your thoughts?

HOGAN GIDLEY, TRUMP 2020 NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: Well, look, this campaign has built something that is quite frankly, the envy of the entire political universe, both with our ground game, our digital efforts, our ads on television, and we expect that to pull us through to the end, not to mention the fact we sure have the best candidate with the best message, the best work ethic and by far the best results. Let's be clear.

Joe Biden has a 50-year career of failure in elected office, so much so that his own boss for eight years, Barack Obama, who knows him pretty well at this point, tried to talk him out of running for president two times.

Now, obviously, it didn't work this past time. But when you look at that record of failure, what you see is a complete dereliction of duty as it relates to the American people, the American worker, the American middle class. His decision on NAFTA kills 850,000 jobs, his decisions on China sent 3.5 million jobs directly away from American workers and over to China.

That's the difference and the decision that has to be made in this campaign and it's why this president, Donald Trump, has gone out around the country during this Democratic convention because he had to go to Minnesota, he had to go to Wisconsin, he had to go today to Arizona and then Pennsylvania later in the week because he knows if he gets his message out without the filter of the mainstream media, it resonates and the people are going to remember just all of the record setting successes in record setting time.

MACCALLUM: It's interesting because obviously there is a very big contrast. We see Joe Biden not out on the campaign trail, and you see President Trump packing in two states, three states in a day, going to these battleground states that Bill Hemmer just pointed to.

But one of the things that's interesting about Michelle Obama's get out the vote effort and she said, we need to vote like we voted back in 2012 and 2008. We did see a 7 percent decline in the African American vote in 2016. So that, she's appealing, obviously, to suburban women, to all of the people that her voice resonates with from what we've seen in the past. But I think it's interesting that Alice Johnson is on the list for the RNC and that will be President Trump's response in terms of what he offers to those voters. Right?

GIDLEY: Right. Absolutely. And look, I understand people love Michelle Obama's speech, but neither Michelle Obama nor Barack Obama are actually on the ticket. Sadly, for the Democrats, it's Joe Biden.

Tonight's theme is about leadership. And I have to be clear, the leadership the Democrats are talking about, that kind of leadership allows a known rabid open anti-Semite and Linda Sarsour to speak to the American people. John Kerry, who sent billions of dollars in cash to Iran and then admitted that money would probably be used against Americans in acts of terrorism, and the leadership that doesn't exist in Democrat cities that have been allowed to devolve into lawlessness with death and destruction, burning churches, burning federal buildings.

All of these cities have been controlled by Democrats for decades. You'd think we'd hear a little tidbit or two of how they're going to stop all that. None of that was mentioned. In fact, they didn't even mention the two words, Joe Biden for like the - for the first two hours of the thing because they know how unpopular he is. And every time he pops out of the hide hole, it becomes a serious problem for Democrats.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you one more thing. This is President Trump in Wisconsin on Monday talking about the election, the post office, all of that. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. Remember that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What does he mean by that?

GIDLEY: We believe if there is a free and fair election, that Donald Trump wins this thing, the fact is Democrats are suing now in 10 states to allow votes to be counted legally after the day of the election. That is unacceptable. Universal mail in ballots are a complete and utter failure. And that's one of the reasons we're trying to express to the American people, you want to vote absentee, do it. You want to vote early, do it. But universal mail in voting is a complete disaster, and the Democrats know it.

They're rooting for chaos because they know chaos is the only way--

MACCALLUM: There's a lot of questions--

GIDLEY: That they can win.

MACCALLUM: Now, in New Jersey has universal mail in ballot. But if I had applied for my absentee ballot, are they going to cross me off the other list?

GIDLEY: That's a great question, and you know what, it'd be really nice if you could ask Joe Biden or Kamala Harris those questions, but instead they won't face the media at all, like this president will, not even close.

MACCALLUM: Well, we hope that will happen soon. Hogan Gidley, thank you. Always good to talk to you. Thanks for being here tonight.

GIDLEY: Thanks so much. Sure.

MACCALLUM: So, a three-year Senate Intelligence Committee investigation into ties between the 2016 and Trump campaign in Russia was finally released today. It's 900 pages. There's a lot of interesting stuff in there. Trey Gowdy has been going through all of it. He'll be here on that. Also, on the news that broke today, that U.S. Attorney John Durham in his probe will sit down with former CIA Director John Brennan next - at the end of this week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Senate Intel Committee releasing a nearly 1000-page bipartisan report that details ties between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia. Among the findings in the report, Trump 2016 Campaign Chair Paul Manafort posed a, grave counterintelligence threat due to his ties with people close to the Kremlin. But like the Mueller Report, the Senate panel did not conclude that there was any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. Congressional Correspondent Mike Emanuel has the story for us from Washington. Hi, Mike.

MIKE EMANUEL, CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening. Senate Intelligence is out with a nearly 1000-page report on interaction between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russian intelligence. On one-time campaign chairman Paul Manafort, the committee found that Manafort's presence on the campaign and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over and acquire confidential information on the Trump campaign.

The intelligence panel also not pulling any punches about the role played by Russia's Vladimir Putin, writing, the committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the Russian effort to hack computer networks and accounts affiliated with the Democratic Party and leak information damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign for president.

Acting Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Marco Rubio offering this conclusion, we can say without any hesitation that the committee found absolutely no evidence that then candidate Donald Trump or his campaign colluded with the Russian government to meddle in the 2016 election. The panel's top Democrat says the report was thorough and calls the findings troubling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I believe the Russians clearly had a preference for Donald Trump. I think the Trump campaign was looking for dirt on Hillary Clinton and I think there was an unprecedented level of communication. When the then campaign manager, Paul Manafort, shares insider campaign information with a Russian intelligence official. That's not good for anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EMANUEL: Senate Intelligence invested a great deal of time and energy interviewing more than 200 witnesses and reviewing more than 1 million pages of documents, all in an effort to get to the bottom of Russians efforts to drive a wedge in the U.S., the American response to Russia and how the intelligence community handled these sensitive issues. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Thank you, Mike. Joining me now, Trey Gowdy, former House Oversight Committee Chair, Fox News Contributor and author of the new book out today, Doesn't Hurt to Ask, Using Power of Questions to Communicate, Connect and Persuade, which we know you are very good at, Mr. Gowdy. Good to see you tonight. Congratulations on the book and thanks for joining us.

TREY GOWDY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: This is a very interesting report going through it with regard to what it says about Paul Manafort and his interactions with Konstantin Kilimnik who they say was indeed affiliated as some sort of Russian agent. What do you say about that?

GOWDY: Paul Manafort is not a good guy. He's right where he should be. The Trump campaign probably wishes they'd vetted more. But you know, Martha, he did what he did for money. That's the oldest motive known to man. He was cash strapped. He thought they owed him money. So, he's showing internal polls for himself, not to help Donald Trump, but to help himself.

So, I congratulate Senate Intel. I mean, they worked hard on it. But in terms of takeaways, when you're talking about a Ukrainian or Russian whose name we can barely pronounce, that is not the narrative we've been fed over the last four years that Trump colluded with Russia. There's no evidence of that. And keep in mind what Marco said. Marco didn't say there's insufficient evidence. We couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. No evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

MACCALLUM: And now you've got two exhaustive, multi-year investigations that both came to the same conclusion. You've got the Mueller Report and you've got this Senate Intel report, which were independent and have the exact same finding. The FBI was flawed, according to the report, when it came to their handling of the Steele dossier and how seriously they took it and what they used it to achieve.

GOWDY: I think there are three main takeaways after the last four years, Russia is not our friend and all that, every American should agree, they are not our friend. Number two, there is no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign in Russia. And number three, the world's premier law enforcement agency continues to not meet our basic expectations.

It is one thing, Martha, to use information that's not been vetted. That's bad, but that's one thing. It is another thing to use information, you know, is unreliable. You know, it is not accurate and still continue to use it. This is Jim Comey's problem. But quite frankly, Martha, it has become Chris Wray's problem. He was warned by Devin, by Paul, by Bob Goodlatte, you can be part of the cleanup crew or you can be part of the cover up crew. And there are more things coming out with the Durham Report that show the FBI's primary concern is its own reputation.

MACCALLUM: What about John Brennan? We understand that John Durham will be interviewing him was the word that they used this Friday.

GOWDY: I know it's this week, if you say Friday, I trust your sources are probably better than mine. Congratulations to John Durham for getting a key person to sit down and congratulations on doing it in the right order.

You need documents before you interview witnesses. I mean, John Brennan has been around a long time. You need documents to hand to him and say, what did you mean in late 2015? What did you mean in 2016 What do your notes mean? Your handwritten notes. So, documents are great. John Durham is a good prosecutor. I just want to find out what happened, what happened in 2016 to create this cloud our country has been living under.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean I'll never forget before the Mueller Report came out, John Brennan with a totally straight face said, there are indictments coming down and that's going to happen--

GOWDY: Well, and he was right.

MACCALLUM: The next day, he got on TV and said, well, I guess I was misled.

GOWDY: Well, he was right about one thing, there wasn't indictment, there have been more FBI employees indicted, the members of the Trump family. So, I hope the DNC convention tonight addresses that, more FBI employees that members of the Trump family let The Washington Post report that.

MACCALLUM: OK, how do I use the power of questions to communicate, connect and persuade?

GOWDY: You're great at it. I almost send you a book anyway, but. Well, I mean, people want to be heard and they want to win their next conversation, whether it's asking for a promotion or just dealing with your brother-in- law over Thanksgiving and learning questions is an acquirable talent. I mean, I was terrible when I started in a courtroom. You can become good at asking the right questions in the right order, and you can be really persuasive with the way that you ask questions. I want to help people make their case.

MACCALLUM: Well, some of the most epic videos that we've played on the air in the years on this show have been you questioning people. And I think that there is such a power to learning the art of that. So, I highly recommend it, Doesn't Hurt to Ask, Using the Power of Question to Communicate, Connect and Persuade. Trey, good to see you. Good luck with the book. Thank you so much for being here tonight.

GOWDY: Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up, President Trump in battleground Arizona today touting the nearly 300 miles of border wall that has been constructed along there during his presidency and bringing immigration to the forefront once again at the 2020 campaign. So, we're going to be joined by the Acting Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, who you saw there moments ago with the President, Mark Morgan, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: President Trump in Arizona today with a message harkening back to 2016 when he won the state by three points. Here's how the polls look there today. Biden holds a two-point advantage in the Real Clear Politics average and President Trump is on defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Biden plan would unleash a flood of illegal immigration like the world has ever seen. It's crazy. Biden's plan is the most radical, extreme, reckless, dangerous and deadly immigration plan ever put forward by a major party candidate. It must be defeated and it will be defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Mark Morgan was with the president today and he joins me now. Mark, Commissioner, good to have you with us. Thanks for being here.

MARK MORGAN, ACTING COMMISSIONER, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: I'd like to start by playing a sound bite from last night's convention. From Michelle Obama which is no doubt something we are going to hear quite a bit more of during. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Kids in this country are seeing what happens when we stop requiring empathy of one another. They watched in horror as children are torn from their families and thrown into cages and pepper spray and rubber bullets are used on peaceful protesters for a photo op.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: How do you respond to that, commissioner?

MORGAN: You know, I tell you, it's outrageous. First of all, let me clear a couple things up, to provide facts for your listeners. Those so-called cages that she referred to, let's make clear, those so-called cages were actually built in 2014 and '15 under the Obama administration and I object to the use of the word cages as well.

Those facilities were designed to take the overcrowded facilities that were never designed for children and families into a facility that was brand- new, thousands of square feet so we can better care for those families and kids and at that time, again built under the Obama administration, they were allotted as an absolute great thing.

It's outrageous. And quickly, to talk, we are still talking about these individuals being peaceful protesters. Again, that's just not true. That's absolutely mischaracterizing what's happening. If you see rubber bullets going in a direction, I guarantee it's because that protester has now become a violent criminal opportunist, that's the fact and that's the truth, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Well, I remember that -- I remember the pictures of children in cages as they put it actually dated back to the Obama years that were being used by some media during the course of this story. This is Joe Biden back in 2006 speaking to the South Carolina, a South Carolina rotary club. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I voted for a fence. I voted and unlike most Democrats, I voted for 700 miles of fence. We can build a fence 40 stories high. It changed the dynamic in Mexico.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So today the Biden camp says that they acknowledge that sound bite but they say that now he feels that it won't address the issues here, we need to stop trying to scare people and instead have an immigration discussion based on facts. Your thoughts?

MORGAN: You know, the Biden back then was right and the president today is right. Look, the wall as you know as you announced, we're here to really a tremendous achievement of 300-miles of wall system being built and that wall system it's not just about illegal immigration, Martha. That wall system increases our capability to stop drugs, for example, poured into this country that killed tens of thousands of Americans every single year.

It gives us the ability to stop gangs from coming into this country like the MS-13, the most violent prolific gang that we've ever seen in this country that use machetes to hack up their victims and leave them decapitated. It gives us the ability operationally to improve our capability to stop criminal aliens from entering this country, meaning with violent criminal past to stop them from reoffending more American victims. That's the truth.

What Mr. Biden said back then is the truth and what President Trump is saying today is the truth and we need the present administration that understands the threat and understands that border security is national security and open borders will not protect this country.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this, what is your feel for the political state right now in Arizona? As I mentioned the president won the state by three points last time around and here's the look at the Senate race right now which is very tight between Martha McSally who was appointed after the death of John McCain, Senator Kohn McCain, and Mark Kelly. And he's got a pretty sizable lead according to that Real Clear Average.

MORGAN: You know, Martha, look, I leave the political predictions up to the professional pollsters as the acting commissioner but what I can tell you, I believe that regardless of your political beliefs, that everyone wants to feel safe and secure in their communities, in their home, in their sidewalks.

That they believe in the rule of law and they don't believe with lawlessness, and they believe that we've got to have an administration and president who understands that and who gets that, and it is for the rule of law.

Again, if you look at what's going on in the border right now, we, America because of this present administration and the great men and women at CBP, we are better off, the health, safety and security of this country is better off today than we were three and a half years ago.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Mark Morgan, acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection joining us tonight. Thank you, sir.

MORGAN: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Coming up, Greater New York Black Lives Matter leader Hawk Newsome first made headlines on this story when we had this discussion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAWK NEWSOME, CHAIR, BLACK LIVES MATTER GREATER NEW YORK: If this country doesn't give us what we want then we will burn down this system and replace it. All right? And I can be speaking figuratively.

MACCALLUM: OK.

NEWSOME: I can be speaking literally, it's a matter of interpretation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Tonight, he joins us once again to respond to former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani who says that Black Lives Matter should be designated as a domestic organization. We'll talk to Mr. Newsome about his issues and what he'd like to see happen in the next administration when we come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R-NY): My final thought is the president really should consider very carefully declaring Black Lives Matter a domestic terrorist organization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER, D-DC: While we were peacefully protesting, Donald Trump was plotting. He sent troops in camouflage into our streets, he sent tear gas into the air and federal helicopters, too. I knew if he did this to D.C., he would do it to your city or your town. So, I created Black Lives Matter plaza right behind me as a place where we could come together to say enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was from last night, the mayor of Washington, D.C. The Black Lives Matter movement has become a big issue in 2020. Some Democrats embrace it at this week's Democratic convention.

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani was with us last night and he issued this condemnation of the larger Black Lives Matter movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: The president really should consider very carefully declaring Black Lives Matter a domestic terrorist organization. They were basically engaged in stealing. So, this is an illegal organization and their intent is to overthrow our government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joining me now, Hawk Newsome, president and co-founder of Black Lives Matter of Greater New York which is its own individual organization. Hawk Newsome, thank you for being here tonight. First of all, let's start with your reaction to what the former mayor of New York City had to say last night.

NEWSOME: Well, it's funny that, you know, you phrase it, the former mayor of New York City and the reason why it's funny is because nobody liked Rudy Giuliani as a mayor. There were actually high t-shirts sales of t-shirts that said f-Giuliani on them. No one like Giuliani, 9/11 happened and he handled it with class and he became a national figure.

But what has Mayor Giuliani done since 9/11 except run his mouth? How has Rudolph Giuliani benefited America? This man's children don't even like him.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: We don't know -- I don't want to make it personal.

NEWSOME: He is nothing but a blowhard who runs his mouth.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I don't -- you know, there were plenty --

(CROSSTALK)

NEWSOME: It is personal. It is personal.

MACCALLUM: To be fair --

NEWSOME: It is personal when you talk about him because he is trying to define peaceful, sometimes, most of the time peaceful protesters as terrorist.

MACCALLUM: All right. But --

NEWSOME: If he really wanted to talk about terrorism, he would talk about the KKK, who is responsible for bloodshed over hundreds of years --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: All right. Let's -- I want to have a conversation about --

NEWSOME: -- who blow up churches with little girls inside.

MACCALLUM: Understood, that was terrorism and I hear what you're saying. I also want to point out, I don't want to get personal about Rudy Giuliani and his family, it doesn't really get us anywhere, I don't think in this conversation. But there were a lot of people who thought that he was a very good mayor and especially as you point out after 9/11, so we let everybody have their own opinion about that be that as it may.

NEWSOME: Yes. But the thing is he's talking about mothers and fathers who are out there protesting. He's talking about black people and white people --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I don't think he is.

NEWSOME: -- out there fighting for our rights --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I think he was talking about people who --

NEWSOME: -- of every human being. For equity, for human rights and he's calling us terrorists? But I've never seen him take a hard stand against right to protest.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: No, I think he was talking about people who loot and people who ruin the businesses, people who built them for years and years.

NEWSOME: OK.

MACCALLUM: And I just want to play one sound bite. Because that -- he's saying, he talked about stealing.

(CROSSTALK)

NEWSOME: OK. When America goes in and steals diamonds and oils who is calling us terrorists?

MACCALLUM: All right. I want -- OK, but, let's --

NEWSOME: When the American government goes in pillages in different countries --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I understand that you have --

NEWSOME: Who is calling us terrorists?

MACCALLUM: OK. But you're saying, are you saying that that's OK, it's OK to steal and loot because of those other things that have happened that were also bad. And I want to play this. This is Ariel Atkins, Black Lives Matter Chicago talking about looting. And I want you to tell me what you think about what she says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIEL ATKINS, ORGANIZER, BLACK LIVES MATTER CHICAGO: I don't care if somebody decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike because that makes sure that that person eats. That make sure that that person has closed. That's reparations. That is reparations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Do you agree with Ariel Atkins on that?

NEWSOME: Well, let's -- so we are moving on past Rudy Giuliani and moving into looting and a form of reparation.

MACCALLUM: Well, that's --

NEWSOME: But let's be very careful, Martha. Let's be very careful and I'd appreciate if you let me speak. Let's be very careful.

The problem with oppression and white supremacy is, white supremacy will have you criticizing the oppressed and worshiping the oppressors. Now, if you want to talk to me about reparations, nothing falls short of a solution other than people cutting a check. If you want to do something about reparations, cut the check.

We are not talking about going in every day Americans pockets, we are talking about banks like Brown Brothers Harriman who benefited from slavery. Other insurance companies that sold insurance policies on.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: All right. So, you want to see reparations come from corporations.

NEWSOME: We're talking about --

MACCALLUM: I asked you a question though, but in fairness --

NEWSOME: -- the American government --

MACCALLUM: Hawk, in fairness --

NEWSOME: -- that was founded on the backs of slaves.

MACCALLUM: OK? I listen to you and now I want you to answer my questions.

NEWSOME: And the American government owes us reparations.

MACCALLUM: Listen to me, sir.

NEWSOME: That's what reparations is.

MACCALLUM: I asked you a question. Do you think --

NEWSOME: You want to know what reparation is, I'm telling you. That's what I'm telling you.

MACCALLUM: Do you think, sir, do you think, do you agree that it's OK to go in and break the windows at Gucci or Macy's or Nike because it make sure that that person eats and that person has closed. That was my question to you, is that ethically OK to you?

NEWSOME: OK. OK.

MACCALLUM: Is it?

NEWSOME: OK. OK. And before I answer that I want to ask you this, do you think it's OK that America --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: No, are you going to answer my question?

NEWSOME: -- kills people in their homes like Breonna Taylor --

MACCALLUM: No, I don't think that's OK. Of course, I don't think that's OK.

NEWSOME: -- and our politicians don't do anything about it.

MACCALLUM: No. But you don't answer my question.

NEWSOME: So, you think that the officers that killed Breonna Taylor be arrested?

MACCALLUM: I'm trying to have a conversation. No, no thinks that's OK.

NEWSOME: Do you that the officers that killed Breonna Taylor should be arrested?

MACCALLUM: That's why you have two-thirds of America --

(CROSSTALK)

NEWSOME: They didn't have a warrant.

MACCALLUM: -- who say they support Black Lives Matter because they don't ever want to see police brutality in this country.

NEWSOME: They went into her home by mistake, Breonna Taylor. They went into her home --

MACCALLUM: OK?

NEWSOME: -- by mistake and they murdered her.

MACCALLUM: But you are not answering my question which is whether or not it's OK to take away people's livelihoods --

NEWSOME: So, should all these officers be arrested?

MACCALLUM: -- because you deserve the stuff that's in the broken window, OK? There's two different issues here. And I wish you had answered my question which you said you would but you didn't.

NEWSOME: Well, do you think it's OK for our country, do you think it's OK for our country to profit off the backs of slaves and to pay reparations to other people's --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: You're having a circular conversation.

NEWSOME: -- and deny black people reparations?

MACCALLUM: OK. You don't want to answer the questions about --

NEWSOME: I need you to be honest with me.

MACCALLUM: -- looting and stealing in broken windows.

NEWSOME: I need you to be -- if you want to talk to me about --

MACCALLUM: So hopefully we can have a conversation where we can actually answer each other's questions. Thank you very much for coming in.

All right. So, hours from now, a roll call though will take place officially declaring Joe Biden the Democratic nominee for president but his past to this point has been a long and rocky road. Decades in fact in the making to getting Joe Biden there. Our political panel looks back when The Story continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: In April 2019, Joe Biden kicked off his third campaign for president as an early front runner, stumbles on the trail and in debates, nearly knocked him out of the race but Biden came back with a vengeance in South Carolina, winning a commanding 48 percent of the primary vote.

And hours from now, the former V.P. will formally become the Democrat Party's nominee for president.

Correspondent Peter Doocy takes us through Biden's rocky road to get where he is tonight. Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening. Joe Biden made a big gamble today at the New Hampshire primary. Things were not looking good for him there. He had already finished fourth place in Iowa, so before polls close that day in New Hampshire, he up and left and flew to South Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Look, remember, when everybody talks about how everybody won in Florida. Clinton lost the first nine events. And he gave -- won one. One of nine, went on to win the nomination. Look, the rest of the nation is out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Bernie Sanders won New Hampshire and then Nevada but then Biden won in South Carolina big and that's when rivals started dropping out ahead of Super Tuesday to help Biden stop Sanders, fearing that a Democratic socialist could not win the general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: You know, just a few days ago, the press and the pundits declared this campaign dead. But South Carolina has something to say about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Biden didn't run four years ago but he grieved his late son Beau, but later said he regretted not running in 2016 every day. Twenty-twenty is his third presidential campaign. In 2008, he dropped out Iowa caucus night after a poor showing there, and in 1988 he dropped out even earlier, derailed by a plagiarism scandal.

He thought about running it '84 but never sent in the paperwork and now at 77, he is about to be the nominee. In the last cycle the 2018 midterm cycle he traveled the country on the campaign trail trying to help other Democrats get elected and now they are all returning the favor, trying to help him remotely. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, Peter.

So, let's bring in Karl Rove, former deputy chief of staff under George W. Bush and Fox News contributor. Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar and Fox News contributor. And Juan Williams, co-host of The Five and a Fox News political analyst.

Gentlemen, great to have all of you with us tonight.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Great to be with you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You know, Juan, it is amazing when you look back at the beginning of this process and the incredibly diverse group of candidates that Democrats were very excited about. That this was the time that Joe Biden finally gets his crack at actually being the nominee.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CO-HOST & POLITICAL ANALYST: I would agree with you in so many ways, Martha, because I think it's a moment when you see an increase in the number of Democrats who self-identify as liberal. It's about half of the party now. It's never been that high. Typically, the party was principally constituted of moderates and conservative Democrats.

So now here comes a moderate Democrat representing a party that's increasingly liberal. Of course, I think that's a reflection of the feeling that the, you know, especially among the younger people, that they wish the party was more aggressive in its response to Donald Trump.

MACCALLUM: Karl, what do you see here? You know, tonight we're going to see Jimmy Carter, we're going to see Bill Clinton, a whole group of -- John Kerry, rather, and a 60-second nod to AOC.

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, she got what the -- she got what she wanted which was 150 pages of policy papers --

MACCALLUM: yes.

ROVE: -- that push the Democratic agenda and the Democratic platform to the left. So, she's got to be happy. Maybe she wants more time but she got what she really needed and wanted which was the platform.

You know what was interesting, last night was Joe Biden is not Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a disaster, and Joe Biden is not Donald Trump. Tonight, I suspect we are going to see that repeated by saying Joe Biden is not Donald Trump when it comes to leadership. Donald Trump is a disaster.

At some point, there is going to have to be more of what Joe Biden wants to do in the future. Maybe that's tomorrow night with Kamala Harris and the platform. Maybe it's Thursday night. It has to be Thursday night. But it will be interesting to see when we stop from being, the argument being just simply I'm not Joe -- I'm not Donald Trump, I'm Joe Biden instead, and start being to flesh out what Joe Biden really is.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It's a great point. I mean, at some point in the campaign it has to become about what you are not and just offering people on alternative, Marc.

THIESSEN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And giving the American people an understanding of what the future looks like if you're the president of the United States.

THIESSEN: Yes, but the problem is that that's not what's motivating Democratic voters. They're not -- they are not for Joe Biden. They are against Donald Trump. If you look at all the polls, Trump voters would walk over broken glass to get to go vote for him they are so enthusiastic about Donald Trump.

The Democratic voters are, you know, they might not even get out of their beds. They'd mail in ballots. They are -- they are motivated -- they have negative enthusiasm. They want -- they want to get rid of Donald Trump. They are not for Joe Biden. There's a reason why this night is 50 years in the making.

I mean, Joe Biden came to Washington in 1972 when I was five years old. He's tried to -- he started thinking about running when Ronald Reagan was President of the United States and he finally got the nomination. Why? Because he is useful to the left. They see him as their Trojan horse, he's this nice moderate, reasonable bipartisan vessel. And inside is hiding an army of socialists.

As soon as they get through the White House gates, they're going to take over the country. So, you know, this is why he is the nominee. It's not because of any -- because Joe Biden has a vision. It's because Joe Biden is a useful vessel for the left.

MACCALLUM: You know, I think about incumbents who lost, you know. And you think about Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. Huge personalities who were so dynamic could change their party. And you think about people who sort of, it was their turn. Right?

You've got Hillary Clinton, you've got John McCain, Mitt Romney in that category, Bob Dole in that category. That has not historically ended well even though he is ahead in the polls right now.

WILLIAMS: Right, but you have a moment here. You know, I was just listening to what Karl and Marc were saying, I think you've got it to put in context. You got a country in which most of the people think the country is headed in the wrong direction, Martha. People are very concerned about the virus, about the economy, about racism and think that the record of the incumbent is a record of failure.

So, you have people looking for an alternative and as a result, this election has become a referendum about Donald Trump. And of course, Donald Trump takes the air out of the room. You talk about big personalities. He's a big personality, dominant in terms of the new cycles and I think people react to him.

I don't think that necessarily means anything bad about Joe Biden. People know Joe Biden. Remember, Trump has tried to paint him as some kind of radical or puppet of the left, you know. John Kasich last night at the convention --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: And he called himself the most -- but he said I would be the most progressive president ever.

WILLIAMS: Right.

MACCALLUM: It's what Joe Biden said.

WILLIAMS: Well, he could be more progressive, that's sure. But I mean, even Kasich said last night --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- that he thinks that Joe Biden is nobody's puppet.

ROVE: I'm amazed that Juan is citing John Kasich --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Real quick, Karl.

ROVE: as the definitive statement on Joe Biden.

WILLIAMS: I'm just telling you. He said it.

MACCALLUM: All right, guys.

THIESSEN: Bernie Sanders beg to differ.

MACCALLUM: We're going to have more time -- we're going to have more time to talk later. Gentlemen, thank you all.

THIESSEN: Thanks.

MACCALLUM: Great to see you tonight. So that's “The Story” of Tuesday, August 18, 2020. But the story continues. I'll see you at 10 o'clock tonight for our special coverage. Bret Baier and I will be there for night two of the Democrat National Convention, coming up. See you then.

END

Content and Programming Copyright 2020 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2020 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.