HHS Sec. Azar accuses China of 'hobbling' COVID-19 response, calls Taiwan a 'model of transparency'

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HHS Sec. Azar accuses China of 'hobbling' COVID-19 response, calls Taiwan a 'model of transparency'

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar details historic visit to Taiwan.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," August 11, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum in New York and this is the breaking story tonight. The ticket is set. It will be Biden- Harris. Joe Biden has chosen Senator Kamala Harris, former prosecutor in California, Attorneys General. A matchup, in many ways, was imagined long ago. In fact, she was asked about it on the campaign trail when she was still in the race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): I think that Joe Biden would be a great running mate. As Vice President he's proven that he knows how to do the job. And there are certainly a lot of other candidates that would make, for me, a very viable and interesting Vice President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: With that, so back then Biden's campaign was nearly left for debt. But all that changed in South Carolina with an assist from Congressman Jim Clyburn. And at that time, Harris's rising stars buttered out for the moment.

And now here we are, with the ticket in place, a choice that makes it clear, that among other things, the former VP was paying attention to this strong message and letter and warning yesterday.

It was a letter from over 100 prominent Black men including Van Jones, Charlamagne tha God, Sean Diddy Combs and attorney Ben Crump, demanding, in fact, that Biden choose a Black woman for his running mate. The letter scolded those who had labeled contenders too ambitious, or asked them to, "show remorse" for political digs on the on the debate stage. A clear nod of support for Harris, who would, in fact, have been criticized for both of those things.

So let's get right to the reaction tonight from Katrina Pierson, Trump Campaign Senior Advisor and A. Scott Bolden, Former Washington DC, Democratic Party, Chairman. Welcome to both of you. Thank you very much for being here.

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, FORMER DC DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you for having me.

MACCALLUM: Scott, I want to get started with you. Because it was interesting to me that you said that - you've noticed that your name was not on that letter, not on that list. What did you think about that? Did you think it was too heavy handed? And what do you think about the choice tonight?

BOLDEN: I think that the - his choice was being made only by him. I would have had those communications with the campaign, but I would not have put them in writing, because I don't think the letter made that much of a difference to Joe Biden.

Joe Biden is his own man. He's going to make that call. And she was let's be - let's face it. She was always the leading front runner once she dropped out of the race, if you will. It wasn't really an open secret, but she really was the safest, a very solid, smart, competent choice that could rally the base even without that letter.

Many of my friends were on that letter. I'm not chastising them. I agree with it conceptually. I just wouldn't have been as heavy handed about it, because she was the leading candidate anyway.

MACCALLUM: Interesting. I'm just staying with you for a minute, Scott, on that. You know, that's the problem, right? Because it makes it look like he sort of got put into a corner. There was a speculation that he met the other day with Gretchen Whitmer, and that maybe that letter was sort of a little bit of a - be careful message that was sent to him in case he was thinking about going that way.

BOLDEN: That message is inherent, given Clyburn, given what happened in South Carolina, given the 90 percent plus of African-Americans, voters who are going to back the Democratic nominee, and his early decision to pick a female Vice President on the ticket. And so, I just don't think it was really necessary.

It may look like that. But I think party insiders on the Republican side and Democratic side note differently. It was a bit of overkill, or they thought it would be insurance. But I think Biden had Kamala Harris on his mind before this letter.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BOLDEN: Once you read the letter, and after the letter.

MACCALLUM: It's interesting. Katrina, it does - if there is a historic nature to the selection of her. Her family, her parents are from India and from Jamaica. But when these markers are laid down. When he says, Oh, I'm going to pick a woman, and then he gets this pressure. Oh, I'm going to pick a Black woman. It's sort of checks those identity boxes. And I think in a way, as a woman, it takes away from some of the selection in some ways, doesn't it?

KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR: Oh, absolutely. But you know, I think Joe Biden's pick is actually a red flag for the Democrat Party, because this actually reinforces what the Trump campaign has been saying for months now, and that is that the polls are wrong.

Because if he was truly leading by 10 points and had the Black vote locked up, he wouldn't go with the base choice. So Joe Biden picked Kamala Harris as a Hail Mary, by choosing a hardcore progressive candidate who supports crazy things like the Green New Deal, and someone who wants to ban fracking and who publicly compared our brave law enforcement to the KKK.

So Joe Biden didn't even remember Kamala Harris during the debates when he claimed to have the support of the only Black woman in the United States Senate. So I think that too, is key. Her record, as attorney general, is absolutely abysmal by fighting to keep inmates locked up in overcrowded prisons to be used as cheap labor, and the list goes on, Martha.

And it absolutely takes away from the fact that she's a woman or even a woman of color, simply because he backed himself in a corner, and perhaps that's what he wanted.

MACCALLUM: President Trump made a reference to - sort of checking boxes with who you pick, and this got some attention too. Here he is talking about that on the radio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He roped himself into a certain group of people which is fine.

CLAY TRAVIS, FOX SPORTS RADIO: He said he had to pick a woman.

TRUMP: He said that. And some people would say that men are insulted by that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think about that, Scott?

BOLDEN: I don't think that dog will hunt. First of all, she's not a - she's not to the Far Left at all. She's a former prosecutor, got high remarks for that. Secondly, any man that's offended at diversity or the fact that she's a history making nominee, because we have - we have never had an African- American or even an Asian - American of Asian descent - let alone, Jamaican descent, be on the ticket. This is a diverse country. That's smart politics given the bases.

And I'll be honest with you, White voters have never voted in the majority since 1986 for a Democratic nominee for President. And so the cultural difference, but more important, those Black voting patterns for people of color, Black and Brown people, are super important to the Democratic Party, because they're not voting for the GOP in major names, because GOP doesn't really offer them anything to vote for.

I mean, you talk about Biden's gaffes. Well, what about the intentionality of Donald Trump? I mean, he tweets out or retweets his supporters saying white power. That's not really welcoming to people of color. So this is a solid choice. She'll energize the base, but energize Biden's campaign as well. And I think she's going to be a solid choice as we get closer to the voting in November.

MACCALLUM: I mean, I think it's great to have historic moments. But I think it's nice when they sort of unfold on their own and they don't appear to be in any way sort of something that someone was nudged into or did for a particular reason, only because you want to select the person who you think is the most qualified and the most perfect person for that job. But Katrina, I want to give you a chance to respond to what Scott just said.

PIERSON: Martha she is qualified she. You're not saying she is not qualified.

MACCALLUM: Not at all, I'm not. I'm saying that I just want it to be all about that, and not about not about anything else. Katrina, you want to respond to Scott?

PIERSON: Yes. Well, wouldn't it be nice to just focus on qualifications instead of identity politics? We went through this in 2016, because all women were supposed to vote for Hillary Clinton and that didn't work out so well either.

But the Left will talk about the intentionality of a tweet, and we can talk about the actual facts. Joe Biden has spent half a century in public office decimating the Black community. We can talk about the Crime Bill.

BOLDEN: That's just not true.

PIERSON: He authored it. He absolutely was the author. He brags about being the author of the Crime Bill and actually bragged about locking people up for everything but jaywalking, Joe Biden's own words.

So we at the Trump campaign are happy to talk about the facts. The Left can talk about intentions and, and unicorns and rainbows. But there's a very serious issue in America today and President Trump has been leading on the issue and failed.

Joe Biden failed, where Barack - Barack Obama and Joe Biden failed and Donald Trump is picking up that mantle and leading the way. Our president has put out many policies that helped Black America, whether it's HBCUs, whether it's the economy and police reform, let's not forget about that. This is the issue of the day and President Trump was leading on this issue back in October 2019, and we're happy to have that discussion.

MACCALLUM: I got it.

BOLDEN: Well, he's not getting an ounce of credit for it. He's got a lot of negative narrative right now, which is why his numbers are where they are, and Africa-Americans--

MACCALLUM: All right, guys. We got to leave it there. But I do appreciate you -

BOLDEN: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: --sort of giving us a taste of what that debates going to look like. And we all hope that there will be four debates actually, because we'd like to have one sooner rather than later.

PIERSON: Yes.

MACCALLUM: So we hope that the Biden campaign will step up and say that they'll participate in that. Katrina, good to see you. Scott Bolden, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

BOLDEN: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So we're going to continue our conversation about the pick with Deroy Murdock and Marc Thiessen, they're going to join me a little bit later in the hour.

But first, a Black Lives Matter activists, lauding the looting of businesses in Chicago, calling it tantamount to reparations. Look at that sign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIEL ATKINS, BLM CHICAGO ORGANIZER: That makes sure that that person can make some kind of money, because this city, obviously, doesn't care about them. Not only that, that's reparations. That is reparations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: She's talking about looting, and saying that it's reparations, and that you should take what you want if you need it. We're going to speak to the owners of small business there who say that lawlessness is taking away their livelihoods. We'll also be joined by journalist Charlie LeDuff, who has studied the situation in our urban areas very closely. As the Journalist he is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: As Chicago cleans up the glass and they board up the windows, one of the leaders of Black Lives Matter in that city says that the riots and the looting are all justified. She and others took to the streets with signs reading, "Our futures have been looted, loot back," to show their support for those who were arrested during the violence that saw 13 police officers injured on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATKINS: I don't care if somebody decides to loot a Gucci, or a Macy's or a Nike, because that makes sure that that person eats. That makes sure that that person has clothes. That makes sure that that person can make some kind of money, because the city, obviously, doesn't care about them.

Not only that, that's reparations. That is reparations. Anything they want to take, take it, because these businesses have insurance. They're going to get their money back. My people aren't getting anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Wow. Residents now say that they are afraid to simply walk outside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN FREEMAN, CHICAGO RESIDENT: I've lived here for 20 years, and it's getting scary, because you can't walk out now. I used to go out early in the morning to run. I don't do that any longer and used to walk at night, and I stopped doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So that's happening to America's cities. People in New York City would say the same thing. Right now in San Francisco they're saying the same thing about walking around their own community.

Joining me now is Charlie LeDuff, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and author of " - show!: The Country's Collapsing . . . and the Ratings Are Great" It's a book and Charlie spent a lot of time talking to people in the cities of America.

Charlie, when you listen to that young woman with Black Lives Matter, say that it's - she's fine with people breaking the windows and stealing stuff from Gucci's and Macy's because after all, they have insurance and you don't have what you need, and you need to eat and you need clothes. So, go right ahead. What goes through your mind?

CHARLIE LEDUFF: It doesn't work? Like they tried that in Los Angeles. It doesn't work, doesn't solve the long term problem, my friend - my young friend. We tried it in Detroit. You know what happened? Companies moved, insurance rates go up, and then the crummy and crappy stuff that's left here for you to get cost an arm and a leg. That's not the answer.

It's tearing - I'm just, I'm just so sad for the country. Like, no - where's the leadership that understands what's really happening? Yes, it's really sore in the urban communities, in the Black communities.

But do you know, my young friend out there in Chicago, that school money was captured to build a skyscraper hotel for one of Rahm Emanuel's contributors. So, meanwhile, the kids in your school, it's 50 children to a kindergarten class. It's got nothing to do with Gucci. And if you're saying armed robbery, looting, breaking and entering is a way to feed yourself, then you're next and then don't bother calling the police, because you're going to get eaten up. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

MACCALLUM: Speaking of the police, a lot of us watched as Chief Carmen Best in Seattle, got to the end of her rope, essentially, and she resigned today. She stood up. Mayor Jenny Durkan, who said it was going to be a Summer of Love in Seattle, stood next to her Police Chief Carmen Best, while she said, I can't do this anymore. You're going to take away all the money, you're going to take away the support that I need for my officers and I'm done. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARMEN BEST, OUTGOING SEATTLE POLICE CHIEF: I'm done. I can't do it. The council gave us $1.6 million to make sure that we hire the best and the brightest and the most diverse and brought them on. And less than a year later, we're going to just turn them all away. It feels very duplicitous, and honestly, I just - I have my convictions. I cannot do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I have my convictions, says she Chief Best. She was lauded today by the Attorney General William Barr for doing a superior job. So now Seattle loses that woman and that leader, Charlie,

LEDUFF: And there you go.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

LEDUFF: OK. So who's going to do it? OK, keep asking. And it's - look, it's - you defund the police. Good people don't want to do it. Straight up, you're going to get Mexican Federales. You're going to have underpaid people working for cartels that are taking bribes, and you get nothing.

I agree and understand what the problems in America, but this isn't the way to do it. Look, forget Gucci for a minute. That rolling riot went down to some strip malls and took out mom and pops. Martin Luther King was a figurehead. Black Lives Matter where is it? Is that even a thing? Or is it a slogan?

Because Martin Luther King condemned rioting, and he called it destructive and he called it nihilistic. He did say rioting is the language of the unheard. Get some knowledge about where the money really is. Because I'm armed and loaded too and I don't want this. I don't want it. Nobody wants it. We're at a moment where we can get somewhere.

MACCALLUM: And Jesse Jackson said that what happened in Chicago was embarrassing and humiliating. But this young woman said, she doesn't care what Jesse Jackson thinks. That's not what it's all about anymore. So, Charlie, thank you.

LEDUFF: Yes, thanks so much.

MACCALLUM: Always good to get your thoughts. Thanks for being here.

LEDUFF: OK.

MACCALLUM: So my next guests are actually a two people that Charlie just referred to, because they owned their own business. They've owned a business for 30 years, near Chicago's north side and it was looted ruined overnight for the second time in three months.

They lost more than $25,000 worth of merchandise and all the cash that was in the cash register. Ken and Carrie Londe are the owners of Londo Mondo, fashion boutique. Ken and Carrie, thank you very much for being here tonight.

I know that you were hoping that post COVID you are going to be able to get things started again and reopened again and that was not to be, right?

CARRIE LONDE, OWNER OF LONDO MONDO: It was not to be on the heels of being closed for two and a half months. Two days before we were supposed to reopen the first wave of, kind of, looters happened. And - yes, well - and then we were back up and opened a few days later. And unfortunately, two nights ago it happened again and this time much worse. So - yes.

MACCALLUM: Curious, Ken, what do you think when you hear that young woman say, take what you need. Take clothing if you need clothing. These places have insurance. And this is reparations. You need to do what you need to do, so steal the clothing.

KEN LONDE, CHICAGO BIZ OWNER & LOOTING VICTIM: I agree with what your previous caller said to be brief. Lawlessness is not the answer.

C. LONDE: It's not going to better us as a society to have people stealing from people because it forces us into a militant states and we're not equipped. We're business owners, we're not equipped to defend our stores. So it can't happen that way. As a society, you just can't go down that path where we all are either defending ourselves or stealing from each other. It's just not the way that we can survive and evolve.

MACCALLUM: So Ken, are you determined to open your store again? And what would you say to Mayor Lightfoot, about what kind of protection you need to function as a business in your neighborhood?

K. LONDE: Well, I can say that we need to do a lot more than we're doing. We don't feel safe. After the George Floyd riots a couple of months ago. Our whatever window was smashed in and got looted. And I had to go down there and defend my store with a cell phone in my hand, basically pretending that I was on the phone with the police, because the police weren't there.

I know the police are in other parts of the city trying to do their best. But from what I understand, they're told not to engage and stop these things unless there's personal harm being threatened or done to individuals.

So there's been no increased police presence that I've noticed in the past two and a half months since the first riots and there needs - that needs to happen. And I don't know, on the prosecution side, I've heard that they're not prosecuting them the way they should if that's true. That's ridiculous. People are committing crimes. They're smashing in our windows. They're taking our property that we've worked extremely hard for over 30 plus years to build up this business. And--

MACCALLUM: I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what you guys have been going through Ken and Carrie. And I'm sad to say that we have the same kind of boarded up windows here in New York and you wonder what's happening to America cities when the leadership doesn't protect people from lawlessness? It seems a pretty basic function of the leadership to protect people from lawlessness in their communities, regardless of the issues that people might want to protest, so this is a totally separate thing.

Ken and Carrie, thank you very much. We wish you all the best. I hope you can come back in a month and tell us that things are looking up and that things are better. Thanks, guys. Good to see you tonight.

All right. Let's switch gears here. As you know, the pandemic really changed the whole dynamic between the United States and China. And now it appears that there is no going back. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar is angered by - he angered China, I should say, because he sat down with the President of Taiwan in a sign of unity. Communist China didn't like that. They sent two fighter jets overhead as a clear message to the Secretary. He's here next with his story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I had a very good relationship with President Xi. I would even say better than good. I would say we had a great relationship. He's a great gentleman. But my relationship is no longer very good with him, because of what they did with the China virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So as tensions between the United States and China escalate, our Secretary of Health and Human Services sat down with Taiwan's President. This was the highest level meeting between our two countries in decades. China considers Taiwan to be a sovereign part of China, and firmly opposes any official interactions between the United States and Taiwan. So in answer to this meeting, China's sent fighter jets over the site of that meeting to send a very clear message.

Joining me now is Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, fresh off of his historic trip. He's still there. In fact, he's heading back shortly. Secretary Azar, thank you very much for being here. So clearly, China. thinks that your visit was a provocative move. What do you say to them?

ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY, UNITED STATES HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Well, as Secretary Pompeo said yesterday, the Chinese Communist Party has to be feeling pretty weak and insecure if the visit of a Health Secretary to meet with other health colleagues in the middle of a pandemic, to an area like Taiwan, that has been a model of transparency and openness and democratic values throughout this, somehow threatens them enough to send fighter jets- -

MACCALLUM: But to - to their understanding, they do not recognize that Taiwan is a separate country, and you're meeting with them - with the President, not just the Health and Services Secretary, this was the highest level meeting in decades from the United States to Taiwan. So, what was the message? And also, you know, it said the president sends a strong support for Taiwan and China said that your visit endangered peace.

AZAR: Well, my visit is completely consistent with the U.S. has long- standing one China policy and is completely consistent with the precedent of senior level engagement between the United States and representatives of Taiwan.

What the Communist Party of China should be more focused on is getting more transparent, more open and more collaborative on COVID-19 when they brought this upon us by concealing so much about this virus and its origins as well as the nature of the disease and preventing international observers in throughout.

As I said in the speech yesterday here in Taiwan, if this virus had emerged in Taiwan or in the United States and open Democratic transparent public health system, we could have stopped it in its tracks.

MACCALLUM: Well, I think everybody wishes that that's what happened. The language that you just used in that response that the United States continues to uphold the one China policy is obviously the phrase that China is looking to hear. That is the policy that they insist upon from everybody that does business with China essentially.

And yet, we know that Taiwan is concerned that China might make even aggressive military moves against the country that you are in right now. We have also seen this national security policy in Hong Kong and how that's playing out. People are getting arrested and pulling out of newspaper offices. So why do we still have a one China policy given what you just said about China's behavior with this virus?

AZAR: Well, I'm going to focus on health issues. You know, one of the things that we've seen is when President Tsai was elected here as part of a vibrant, Democratic process in Taiwan four years ago, she was first elected, the Chinese Communist Party went to the World Health Organization and said Taiwan can no longer participate in observer status which it had been for years.

They bullied the WHO, they pulled Taiwan, they kicked Taiwan out. And the Trump administration and I, and Secretary Pompeo have been fighting to get Taiwan back in so that Taiwan can contribute with their excellent public health system that they've got --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

AZAR: -- the transparent information they can provide. You know, they are one of only two entities under Macau and Taiwan that the State Department and the CDC now have a level one, the lowest level travel advisory for. They've done such a great job dealing with COVID-19 unlike China.

MACCALLUM: yes. I mean, the reason that China doesn't want them represented in the WHO among other things is that they don't consider them a country. So it seems like those two things are at odds to say that we still have a one China policy but to also say you want China -- you want Taiwan as a separate entity to be part of all of these international organizations because we still respect their democracy in the way they've handled this.

AZAR: Well, I think they would be embarrassed by the transparency and effectiveness of the public health system here.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

AZAR: Taiwan had participated in an observer status for four years but then the Communist Party decided that that was no longer acceptable and bullied and sought to exclude. You know, back in 2018, this is how bad it is, in 2018, there was an Ebola outbreak in the western Democratic Republic of the Congo.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

AZAR: The WHO asked for emergency contributions. China had not provided any. Taiwan offered a million dollars and what did the Communist Party of China do? They bullied and require the WHO to reject that million-dollar donation. No strings attached from Taiwan to help the Democratic Republic of the Congo to prevent the Ebola outbreak.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

AZAR: That's how thuggish they've been.

MACCALLUM: Well, yes, and I think that speaks to the big picture and the president has acknowledged that that relationship has changed. I know you were heading back soon. And I hope when you get back, you'll join us again because we want to talk about the vaccine as well which we hear is in the works and are going to roll out in December and Russia's vaccine as well.

So, we're going to talk about that next time. Secretary, thank you very much, Secretary Azar, good to have you with us tonight.

AZAR: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: All right. Now, to this topic, which is maybe not as important but pretty important to a lot of people in the country, the prospect of college football might be slowly slipping away. I am remaining optimistic. However, after two conferences, they say that they are going to postpone at least the start of the season.

That college football hall of famer and Heisman trophy winner, Herschel Walker disagrees with. He says America needs to cheer and the players need to play. He is next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Hopefully we can watch colleges play football. We want to get football and colleges. These are young, strong people. They won't have a big problem with the China virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Now the big story today the PAC-10, the PAC-12, I should say, the big 10 officially postponing their full sports season today. Both conferences announcing that they may be able to play in the spring.

Fans are holding out hope the other three conferences in the three billion- dollar power five, the ACC, SEC and the big 12 will play this fall. We certainly hope so.

Heisman trophy winner and former NFL player Herschel Walker joins me now. Herschel, thank you so much for coming on the program tonight. What do you think about all of this?

HERSCHEL WALKER, HEISMAN TROPHY WINNER: Well, you know, I'm sad because kids need to play. Kids need to play and this is such a controlled environment that they got to be in. You know you're going to be with some of the best doctors, you know, kids are tested what, twice a week? You know, and if they are not playing, and the kids at home they are in an environment where they can get sick.

But now, you have a university that got world-class doctors. They're testing you are in a controlled environment. And kids need to play. These are kids lives.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WALKER: Right now, they don't seem to care about, their lives what's going on at the country. They don't seem to care about kids getting biking (Ph) in schools, they don't seem to care about this but kids need to be playing college football right now.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Trevor Lawrence the QB at Clemson made that same point that he felt that everybody was safer in the program and at school. Then you've got the ACCs medical advisor for a Duke infectious disease specialist saying we believe that, we believe that we can mitigate it down to a level that makes everyone safe. Can we safely have two teams that meet on the field? I would say yes.

And you know, one other point, since the NBA player, the first NBA player tested positive and ended the NBA season last March. We look this up and, you know, people should let me know if we are wrong here. But we could not find one athlete who had tested positive who was hospitalized, Herschel, not one so far since March.

WALKER: Well, that's what I'm talking about. You know, you are -- you have like at these schools, you have great, great doctors. They are -- they are testing these kids all the time. They were taking care of these kids. You know, what are you going to do? You are going to send them home? Because if schools is not in, what are you going to do? You're going to destroy these kids, you know, they are going to walk round campus and going to get depressed?

You know, they are -- they are losing their livelihoods right now. You know, kids, think about if you are a senior. This is his chance to get to the next level. And I think that you can call it politics because you look at the places that decided not to play, look at the areas where they've decided not to play. You know, it is sad that --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: You think it's political?

WALKER: -- we've come to this. Right. It is sad that we have come to this right here and that's what hurts.

MACCALLUM: It sure does. Let's hope they come up with a solution here quickly. Herschel Walker, always a pleasure. Thank you very much, sir. Good to see you tonight.

WALKER: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Coming up, we're going to talk to Deroy Murdock. He says that Joe Biden's selection of Senator Kamala Harris as his V.P. does nothing to erase years of anti-black slurs, friendships, and policies. His take coming up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I tell you if you have a problem figuring out whether you are for me or Trump, then you are not black.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She was extraordinarily nasty to Kavanaugh, Judge Kavanaugh then now Justice Kavanaugh. She was nasty to a level that was just a horrible thing the way she was, the way she treated now Justice Kavanaugh. And I won't forget that soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was a little while ago. That was the first response that we heard from President Trump reacting to Joe Biden's vice-presidential pick of Kamala Harris and his treatment of -- her treatment of then Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): Did you watch the Dr. Ford's testimony?

BRETT KAVANAUGH, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE, UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT: I did not. I plan to --

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Thank you.

KAVANAUGH: I plan to, but I did not. I was preparing mine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We're joined now by Deroy Murdock, contributing editor for the National Review, and Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute fellow. Both are Fox News contributors.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here.

Obviously, big news today, everybody has been waiting for this choice.

DEROY MURDOCK, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it is.

MACCALLUM: And, you know, Deroy, when a candidate makes this choice, they do it generally in a way that they hope will bring some people into the campaign. Just drop some enthusiasm for some people who maybe might on the fence. Do you think that the pick of Kamala Harris does that for Joe Biden who in your column today you called the Archie Bunker of the left?

MURDOCK: Exactly right. My piece will be at post on foxnews.com tomorrow. And I think she adds a little bit of excitement. She is kind of young. I guess that's a good thing.

What people usually try to do when they pick a running mate, is that somebody will add something in terms of the electoral college. She comes to California. And if he'd nominated a bicycle as his running mate, the bicycle will win in California. So, she doesn't really add anything in that since, it would have been maybe smarter to pick somebody from a swing state, I suppose.

The other thing about her is she seems to come across as a bit of a brazen (Ph) as the president mentioned it. I don't know if she can warm things up and be a little more charming. But she does that probably will bode better for her campaign and Joe Biden's prospects as well.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, one of the things that the battle here, in many ways, Marc, is for those states that President Trump won in 2016. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, you've also got North Carolina, Arizona, some of these places where this election is going to be decided. Does Kamala Harris help to move the needle for Joe Biden in that regard?

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think she does. I don't think she has much impact on those states. I think quite frankly, that this is going to be, because particularly because of the pandemic is going to be more of a base election than even 2016 was.

And she is obviously targeted at the base. And you know, the goal -- the reason to have a black woman on the ticket is to energize, to bring back the Obama coalition that didn't come out for Hillary Clinton. And the problem that Joe Biden has right now is that he is doing worse with African-Americans than Hillary Clinton was.

He is behind her nationally and when it comes to younger black voters, those 18 to 29, he's only got 68 percent support, which is 17 points behind Hillary Clinton in 2016. So, the question is does Kamala Harris help him win over African-American voters and not just support but their enthusiasm?

Her record in the primary doesn't seem to indicate that it does. She was -- she never connected with African-American voters. She never was able to build that support. Ad so I don't know that she will deliver for him the main thing that she's been put on the ticket to do.

MACCALLUM: Let's go back and watch this moment from the debate on June 27th, 2019 that became quite confrontational between these two. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: To hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputation and career on the segregation of race in this country.

You know, there was a little girl in California who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bused to school every day. And that little girl was me.

BIDEN: To mischaracterize my position across the board, I did not praise racist.

I agree that everybody wants to stay in -- no, my time is up. I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Memorable moment, Deroy, that's the kind of issue though that you write about in this column for him.

MURDOCK: Yes. Look, I think Republicans will do a good job of making that tape even more famous than it is at the moment. But you go back to the 1970s, and the 1977 you had Joe Biden saying this about the desegregation.

I'm quoting, "unless we do something about this my children are going to grow up in a jungle. The jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that is going to explode at some point."

He has a whole history of cooperation with people like Robert Byrd, former exalted cyclops in the KKK. He's a -- Biden supportive of an anti- desegregation amendment regarding busing with Byrd that actually passed and got into law.

But you come back into the year 2020 and where he's vulnerable, where Biden is vulnerable. I think Kamala Harris as well, is you have a lot of black parents who want to send their kids to charter schools --

MACCALLUM: That's right.

MURDOCK: -- and what school choice. And Joe Biden is terrible in school choice. He said I'm not a fan of charter schools. He doesn't want any money to go to for-profit charter schools. He's against any kind of vouchers.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

MURDOCK: He wants to defund the D.C. school voucher program. He is very vulnerable in that. I think that's something that the GOP and President Trump should make --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: It's a great point.

MURDOCK: -- be very well known to black voters.

MACCALLUM: Especially in this moment when you got so many public schools not opening and parents want more than ever to be able to make a choice --

MURDOCK: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: -- and send their kids back to school in September, it's an issue that people of all backgrounds would like to see more of, I think.

Marc Thiessen, Deroy Murdock, great to see you both. Thank you, guys. We'll see you soon.

THIESSEN: Thanks, Martha.

MURDOCK: Great to see you, thank you.

MACCALLUM: Thank you.

So, this week we mark the 75th anniversary of VJ Day, remembering the surrender of Japan after the hard-fought battles at the Pacific.

Tonight, the story of a World War II hero who was one the first to hit the beaches during the bloodied battle of Iwo Jima, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: This week we are honoring the heroes who led the United States to victory over Japan 75 years ago. On February 19, 1945, W2 -- World War II Marine Corps Corporal John Lauriello landed on Red Beach during the Battle of Iwo Jima. During the weeks' long bloody fight, he worked with the Navajo code talkers to ensure vital combat information was shared with his fellow marines.

Seventy years later, he returned to the islands of Japan at the age of 92 reuniting with surviving members of this troop. Here he is in a documentary that was produced by his grandson, Talon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURIELLO, WORLD WAR II VETERAN: My life experiences in the war have changed my life more than I realize in the beginning. I recovered, got married, had a family successfully and overall, the overall picture is a very pleasant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: John was laid to rest among our nation's heroes in Arlington Cemetery. He passed away in late November. His grandson Talon Lauriello joins me now.

Talon, thank you so much for being with us. I know your relationship with your grandfather was very special, what was it like today at Arlington Cemetery for you?

TALON LAURIELLO, GRANDSON OF WORLD WAR II VETERAN: The whole ceremony was just amazing. I mean, the actual -- the actual burial and all that was all for coping, and you know, mourning, just worrying about my grandfather. But today, it was -- I felt it was really about a celebration of life and all of his accomplishments, just being in the America's cemetery. And you know --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

LAURIELLO: -- honoring him like that is just, it meant the world. It was amazing.

MACCALLUM: It must have been a remarkable day and we all honor him as a hero for what he fought for at Iwo Jima.

You know, talk to me quickly if you can, about writing about doing this documentary, why did you want so much for everybody to know his story?

LAURIELLO: Well, I made this as junior year project in high school actually and I started it my sophomore year because ever since middle school I was going on these world War II reunions with the Iwo Jima Association of America with my grandfather and my father.

And growing up, you know, I knew so much about his culture and his history. And I just, you know, I felt that it was important. I learned more about it through the organization and really felt like I needed to use my skills to bring that story to light.

MACCALLUM: Yes. What do you want everybody to know about him?

LAURIELLO: My grandfather was a great man. I loved John. He was kind. He was funny. He was sharper than a tack. He knew what he had for breakfast 20 years ago. I mean, this guy was amazing. He could go on with war stories for hours and hours. He was just very entertaining and very lighthearted and just an amazing man.

MACCALLUM: Well, you know what, I'm sure he was incredibly proud of you. And I give your dad and your grandfather so much credit for instilling the history in you and the desire in you to remember these men and that means a lot to all of us.

And I want to thank you, Talon Lauriello, for being here. I hope everybody checks out your documentary on John Lauriello on YouTube. Thank you so much, Talon.

LAURIELLO: Thank you. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: You can read about my Uncle Harry Gray who also fought at Iwo Jima in my book "Unknown Valor." It honors all of the heroes of Iwo Jima and those hard-won battles in the Pacific like John Lauriello.

Good night, everybody. Thanks for being here. We'll see you tomorrow.

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