This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 12, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everybody. I am Jesse Watters, along with Dana Perino, Greg Gutfeld, Juan Williams, and Katie Pavlich. It is 5:00 in New York City, and this is THE FIVE. It looks like the Obamagate scandal is about to get a lot bigger. Acting National Intelligence Director, Ric Grenell, has declassified information about the Obama administration officials responsible for unmasking Michael Flynn.
A source familiar with the intel saying those yet to be released names on the list will make waves. The DOJ is reviewing the documents ahead of a possible release. Remember, leaking unmasked information or using it for political gain is illegal. Barack Obama and Joe Biden facing renewed scrutiny over a key Oval Office meeting back in January 2017, where the Flynn investigation came up. Biden flip-flopping on what he knew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know nothing about those moves to investigate Michael Flynn. I thought you asked me whether or not I had anything to do with him being prosecuted. I'm sorry. I was aware that there was -- that they had asked for investigation, but that's all I know about it. And I don't think anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Biden also claiming that the DOJ dropping the Flynn case is just all a part of a big distraction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: This is all about diversion. This is a game this guy plays all the time. The country is in crisis, from an economic crisis, a health crisis. We are in real trouble. He continues to act irresponsibly. He hasn't done his job. This is all about diverting attention, diverting the attention from the horrible way in which he has acted with what -- he's not -- we don't have Coronavirus because of him, but we have the devastating impact of it because of his lack of a policy, his lack of action.
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: It's all about diversion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: All right. Well, we obviously want to monitor the calls, you know, of high-ranking Russian officials. But the reason they're not identifying the American is to protect their privacy. So if someone in the Obama administration asks permission to find out the name of that American citizen, they'd better have a very good reason.
And the person that asks to be -- have Biden unmasked if they are connected to the president or vice president, Dana, that's a pretty big deal, don't you think?
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, I think this story is a big deal. I think the issue is a big deal, and we are seeing that play out. I do think a couple things so remember this -- supposedly, it was predicated on a counterintelligence investigation. And I think it would almost be worse if you had a rogue Justice Department and FBI not telling the president of the United States and the vice president, what they were up to.
That would be super bad. Like, you would see that in a movie. I don't think that it would be unusual that President Obama would be informed and briefed about a counterintelligence investigation even if it involved the incoming administration. I think it would be a huge scandal if it was not. Now that said, for the people that were asked to have Flynn's name unmasked or got the unmasking, found out Flynn's name.
He found out whoever leaked that. That is obviously a very bad thing. And all of these people that worked for President Obama in that world. I bet you're going to see a couple things, Jesse, one, if they're -- they're going to want to talk about this, right? So if the DNI is declassifying their names, is it also fair then that he should declassify the information and basically let it all out so that they can defend themselves.
Because, as I would feel about it, like, if you had a top-secret clearance and you are a part of this and then your name gets out there but you're still under the clearance rules so that you can't talk about it and defend yourself. That doesn't seem exactly right. So I don't know where that part is going. But the second thing I think will happen is you're going to see all of these people lawyer up very quickly.
And probably with pro bono lawyers, as you saw before with McCabe and Strzok, and those GoFundMe pages, if you'll remember those. But I think that will happen, so if they are not allowed to talk about it, they will lawyer up, and then it will go very quiet.
WATTERS: Yeah. I mean, maybe the unmasking is not a bad as the leaking of the classified conversation, Juan, the leaking of the classified conversation which is a crime, and then the leaking of the Flynn name is a crime. So that's probably worse than just requesting the identity.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, you know, leaks are not good if you're trying to maintain national security, Jesse. So I don't think anyone's going to argue that. The question here is about the behavior of Michael Flynn. I mean, you can't say President Obama told him to call Kislyak, the Russian Ambassador, and discuss the sanctions regime for Russian interference.
I don't think anyone wants to make that case. So I don't think that's Obama. I don't think that's Biden. No one is saying, oh, yeah, you know, he's that one that told Flynn go ahead and act as a lobbyist for Turkey but don't register as a lobbyist. Nobody is saying all that was done by Stone, by Manafort. Oh, that was all made up by the Obama administration.
Look, I think this is all a waste of government energy, resources, and time when we should be focused on the Coronavirus and trying to get this economy back in order. I -- you know, Ric Grenell used to be -- we know him --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: So this is a waste of time, not the last three years of the witch hunt. This is?
WILLIAMS: No. I think Grenell is acting in a very political fashion, again, going after what we know --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Grenell is political. But the Obama intelligence officials were not political, but Grenell is political? Is that what you are saying?
WILLIAMS: I am thinking that right now, we have Russia, China, and others seeking to interfere again. That's where our energies should be, not in some political diversionary tactic to benefit President Trump.
WATTERS: OK, very diversionary, just trying to correct injustice. Katie, how do you see this playing out? Biden now saying I don't know anything. That doesn't really sound like someone that was really in charge.
KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS HOST: Right. And he was in the Oval Office when President Obama informed Sally Yates that the FBI had been listening in on phone calls that Michael Flynn had made to the Russian ambassador. So for him to say he doesn't know anything doesn't really, you know, stick with the facts here on the situation.
But, you know, Dana made a good point that the president of the United States would, of course, be involved and informed of a counterintelligence investigation, especially if it was someone who was on a campaign in the political sense. But the argument up to this point has been that the president wasn't involved. He didn't know anything.
This, of course, he didn't reach the highest levels of the Obama administration. Well, now, we know at least that President Obama knew about it. And he was giving information to people at the Justice Department at the time, and details about it to them that they didn't have before. So it seems like he was pretty involved.
And then you couple that with the Obama administration's history and actions of using the power of the federal government, whether it was the IRS going after Tea Party groups for political reasons or the Department of Justice going after gun dealerships by punishing their banks, or whether it was going after reporters who were talking to sources that Obama wanted to put behind bars for talking and leaking information.
So all of that information leads to more questions, and people want accountability for this. There has been a wrong here. And they want to know which public officials that they were paying were unfairly and illegally leaking information and names to the media on a citizen who had done nothing wrong.
WATTERS: All right, Greg, last word.
GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, first of all, to Biden. He is in a bind, because either he knew, which is a problem, or either he didn't, which is a problem. Because I think he didn't know, because I can't believe anybody would come to him for advice. The guy was more out of the loop than a drunken figure skater. He was just a nice guy you had in the room who shook hands and wore the aviator glasses.
As for this being a waste of government time and we should be focusing on the Wuhan virus, I said that three months ago. I said that four months ago in January when I was screaming about the Wuhan virus. And everybody was intent to watch the impeachment hearings. So nobody can lecture anybody on that. It's a load of crap.
I am curious where the hyperventilating, tick-tick-boom idiots who drooled over every Russian name in the phonebook, why isn't Rachel Maddow leading her show with the scandal behind the scandal? If this is a joke, if this is meaningless, how about your three-and-a-half your delusional fantasy that went on based solely on somebody knowing somebody?
You only had thoughts but no proof, so you inflated your thoughts into proof. And now, you find out that it's worse than you thought because it involves Trump -- Obama, your side. So now it scares you. This leads to something that I've always wanted to talk about but we could never talk about it on THE FIVE, because it was too gross, the Steele dossier, which is behind all of this, right?
We could never talk about it, because the media used it as a shield of scuz. Like, they could talk about it at late-night shows. We could never really get into it because the content of the dossier was sufficiently lurid, right? So the media could use it at will. We really couldn't touch it. But let's be clear how the Republic -- how the Russians -- getting ahead of myself -- how the Russians really praying to us, because the Steele dossier was a cartoon version of what you think would enrage Obama loyalists.
You had a Russian going what if we tell them that we have hookers defile the bed Obama has slept in front of Mr. Trump. That's what we tell them. How obviously absurd and fake is that? All that's missing is Boris Batanov (ph), Natasha, and perhaps Rasputin in the same room. Yet our media, a bunch of tools, got suckered by this garbage, as well as panoply of politicians who chased this crap down.
Steele himself was just a conduit for this nonsense. So the real hilarious punchline of the last four years is that a porno fantasy suckered all of our bright minds in the media and all our sharp dressers in D.C.
PAVLICH: There are no sharp dressers in D.C.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Good point.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: -- did the Russian accent.
GUTFELD: My wife is going to kill me.
WATTERS: Democrats looking to politicize the pandemic after top health officials testify before the Senate, and we will show you that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: The nation's top health officials testifying remotely today before the Senate on reopening the economy. Dr. Anthony Fauci issuing a warning about states restarting their economies too soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: At some areas, cities, states, or what have you, jump over those various checkpoints and prematurely open up without having the capability of being able to respond effectively and efficiently. My concern is that we will start to see little spikes that might turn into outbreaks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: And there was this contentious moment between Senator Rand Paul and Dr. Fauci. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we ought to have a little bit of humility in our belief that we know what's best for the economy. And as much as I respect you, Dr. Fauci, I don't think you are the end-all. I don't think of the one person that gets to make the decision.
FAUCI: I have never made myself out to be the end-all and only voice of this. I am a scientist, a physician, and a public health official. I give advice according to the best scientific evidence. There are a number of other people who come into that and give advice that are more related to the things that you spoke about, the need to get the country back open again and economically. I don't give advice about economic things. I don't give advice about anything other than public health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right. Greg, what did you take away from this hearing today?
GUTFELD: Well, I always say -- you know, I've said this before. If you are pointing fingers, there is an entrance fee, you know? You have to ask -- you have to say how would you have done this differently? But you cannot use 20/20 hindsight. We do know that Trump relied on experts, and experts were wrong on masks, tests, ventilators, and especially the experts that were informing Cuomo rest homes.
So if you believe that you would've done better, the big question -- if you knew something, why did you hold out on us? All you smarty-pants people in the media, why did you have this inside info on fighting a virus and held it back for us? And that -- it is amazingly -- it's amazing how accurate pundits and politicians are when they're looking backward, like the standard for testing, you know?
Tell us exactly what the standard for testing is, considering the experts don't even know what it is because they haven't dealt with it before. So the thing is you can't tell what a good job is when it's the first job. We know it could always be better. But you don't know how. So do not trust the media on this, but do not fault people, whether it is Fauci, whether it is Trump, even whether it is Cuomo, who give advice or take a risk and turn out to be wrong, because everybody's going to be wrong on this no matter what.
PERINO: And Jesse, one thing I did notice today in the hearing is that the Democrats were very frustrated at the government, at the Trump administration in particular. And their solutions, though, seemed to be that we need more government.
WATTERS: Yeah, because government has done so well over the last so many years. To Greg's point about the Democrats' strategy, it's a great point because we still don't know what the Democrats' strategy is, because all they say is Trump is either doing things too slowly or he's doing things too quickly. So all it is, is just a complaint. I mean, Petraeus had the surge strategy.
Though, Trump had the tariff of strategy with China. There is no Democrat strategy on this. It's whining. That's all it is. So I watched this entire hearing. And it's incredibly frustrating because they have set these traps with tests. Now, we would have gotten the tests sooner if China hadn't destroyed the virus samples in the lab, if they had just shared it with the rest of the world.
We could have gotten the tests a lot quicker. But now, here's what they are doing with testing. Now that we've tested more people than all the other countries in the world combined, they say OK, well, the testing rate isn't good enough. Permission to make a sports analogy, Dana, this is like when a quarterback goes 9 for 10 for 100 yards.
And the opposing quarterback goes 39 for 50 for 400 yards. The Democrats think the quarterback that went 9 for 10 is better because he had a better completion percentage. No, anybody with a brain will take the quarterback that had 39 completions for 400 yards. So don't fall into that trap. I do agree, though. Testing needs to get better.
And I was disappointed with the CDC director, this guy, Redfield. I don't get a good feeling about him. They had the lab contamination early. He doesn't inspire confidence. He is a poor communicator. He is not clear. He doesn't look charged up. Something about this guy I don't like. I can't put my finger on it. But the fact that he hasn't been out in front center on this whole thing from the beginning, as the CDC director, tells you a lot.
PERINO: But he has been. I mean, like, the White House has been having him do a lot of talk radio all across the nation, because they think he's been great. But I take your point. And, of course, it wasn't easy, Juan, to hear everybody during the remote. There was the dog that was barking and also Lamar Alexander's cute dog that was sitting behind him. What did you take away from the hearing?
WILLIAMS: Dogs. Well, you know, I find that entertaining because I think it's very real. And you get the sense that these are human beings. You know, we see them in the official setting of a Senate hearing. And you think it's just some guy in a suit. In response to what Jesse was saying, by the way, I was taken by the idea that you had Republicans like Lamar Alexander, Mitt Romney saying, hey, the testing has just not been sufficient and nothing to celebrate.
And especially if we are looking towards reopening schools in the fall, we don't have that in place. Fauci was very clear about that. We don't have any kind of regiment or testing or any kind of way that we can assure the chance at the University of Tennessee, for example, I think that's what they were talking about, with Senator Alexander, that you can open school in the fall.
Because right now, it just doesn't seem that that's a reasonable goal to have. The other thing I would say is in terms of what Fauci said, again, I don't think this is Republican or Democrat. I think Fauci just said with those -- with the potential for spikes out across our country, not just in the big cities. There is just too much potential for death and more suffering and more people getting sick.
And I -- it was very clear to me that he was trying to not politicize it, not to get into a back-and-forth with Rand Paul, but to say he was speaking as a scientist and that people should listen.
PERINO: Yeah. Katie, on the school thing, the chairman did go back to Fauci and say let's clarify. And Fauci said different solutions for different places. But he also said something that people might take some hope from. And that was that when pressed by Senator Romney, do you really think it's realistic to get a vaccine within a year or two? Fauci said absolutely, that is possible.
PAVLICH: Yeah. And I thought what Rand Paul said about keeping kids out of school for a year and the consequences of that, especially if they are lower income kids. There would be severe consequences for that. And also, Dr. Fauci said that the vast majority of people who get this disease recover. And I think there needs to be more focus on the recovery numbers in addition to the new cases and the continuation of the flattening of the curve.
And in the end, they're going to be consequences on both sides of this no matter what decision they make. Do you keep it locked down? There will be severe consequences in so many different sectors for that. If you open it back up, yes, there will be more cases, but the deal was never to have zero cases. The deal was to get the hospitals ready to deal with this.
PERINO: Yeah. There is no perfect decision to be made, indeed, and tough ones ahead.
PAVLICH: Yeah.
PERINO: All right. Thanks, everybody. We have a media firestorm erupting after President Trump's clash with a reporter in the Rose Garden yesterday. Greg's monologue on that is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: All right. Yesterday, at the end of Trump's presser, a reporter offered a churlish opinion disguised as a question. And Trump responded in his usual way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is this global competition to you if everyday Americans are still losing their lives and we are still seeing more cases everyday?
DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Well, they are losing their lives everywhere the world. And maybe that's a question you should ask China. Don't ask me. Ask China that question, OK? When you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. Yes, behind you, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, why are you saying that to me specifically?
TRUMP: I'm telling you. I'm not saying it specifically to anybody. I am saying it to anybody that would ask a nasty question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not a nasty question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Of course, how did the media see it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is racist to look at an Asian-American White House correspondent and say ask China. This isn't happening in a vacuum. This is part of a pattern of behavior from the president that goes back many years. So he doesn't have the benefit of the doubt that someone might have if for the first time ever in their life they made a comment like that to a reporter. He also has this pattern of reacting to minority journalists in a very specific and different way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Oddly, Stelter is right. There is a pattern of behavior. But it makes his argument hideously laughable. Here's the pattern of behavior, you sputtering chucklehead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There is nobody ever been tougher on China than me. Our relationship with China was good until they did this. All I can say is wherever it came from, it came from China. They didn't report what was happening inside of China. No, I'm not happy with China.
They didn't want us to close our borders to China. The only leader of a country that closed our borders tightly against China.
We're talking to China and we've expressed how we felt. We're not happy about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Not happy. It's amazing we'd have to do a montage of Trump mentioning China over and over to anyone. But the media is like a stupid child. You got to walk them through stuff they try to forget every single day. The fact is Trump has been calling out China more often than Brian calls out for Chinese. And Trump was doing it when every moron with a microphone was obsessed with Russia, especially be his own network. It was an outfit that watches and waits for its biases to be confirmed.
You want to know how it works? Here's an analogy. Bob swears at everyone, then he swears at someone who's not white. CNN says see Bob is racist. They're grift ignore the colorblind behavior and selectively pick an instance that builds a smear. It's what a broken media does, their crumbling psyche, prompts it to see things they wish were there.
This is called fiction, a never-ending profit model of conflict and bitterness that requires smearing people. Rich relies solely on mind- reading, that when Trump says China, they can tell it's racist, yet there's no evidence they just know because they hope it is. But this isn't just about Trump calling him racist, it's the media's gateway drug to calling you the same thing. Right, Joy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, HOST OF THE VIEW, ABC NEWS: He is a racist. He throws red meat to his base on a regular basis. And anybody who still supports this guy needs to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are racist also. That's all I have to say about him. I've had enough of him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: The feeling's mutual, you bag lawn clippings. So, Jesse, I believe Trump says China more than he says wall, and he says, anybody. You'll be walking down the street, and if you trip, he'll go, that's China. It doesn't matter what nationality.
WATTERS: It's close. Listen, this morning, the President accused an anchor on television of murdering an intern, OK. That was pretty bad. And this is a white male anchor that he accused of murdering an intern. I mean, come on, man. Like we do this all the time.
Last month, that President said, oh, you're talking to a black reporter. You people, you people, and they said that was racist. And then we ran clips of him saying you people to reporters every day of the week for the last three years.
So this is what they do. If they find a way to play the race card and make the story about themselves, I mean, this is a twofer and they love it. And no one even thought it was racist until this woman that said that. Yes, you know, Katie, Trump never mentioned her race, but Brian Stelter immediately noticed it. Isn't he the racist here?
PAVLICH: Yes. He's the one who seems to be hyper-focused on who that woman was, and maybe what nationality she is, which is American, by the way. Reporter 101 is not to make yourself the story. This woman continues to make herself in the story during these white house briefings.
And it's really amazing to me to continue to watch the so-called most prestigious press corps in the world act this way when there are journalists in places like China, where the Communist Party exists, who get disappeared when they dare to tell the truth about where this virus came from, the fact that China lied about it and cover it up.
And yet you have journalists in America continuing to ignore the basic fact that this is something that China did to the rest of the world, when they are supposed to be focused on facts, and apples and oranges and apples and bananas, and all the things that they like to say while continuing to cover for the fact that China did this. It's a basic fact. They should be focused on it.
GUTFELD: That's a good point, Juan. Could this little outrage that Brian is pushing just be immediate distraction to take away from the bumbling of their coverage of the Wuhan virus?
WILLIAMS: I don't know about that one. I do agree with you to this --
GUTFELD: I just used your logic from your previous. That's a distraction.
WILLIAMS: I appreciate. You know, I know -- I know you're trying to always imitate me, but you got to give it a break. I was -- I think that there's no way, to just agree with you on this initial point, to know what was in his mind if he wasn't doing that for whatever reason because she was Asian. I don't know.
What I do know and I can tell you is that there have been black reporters - - I know he's talking to April Ryan who's a black woman report the White House, and all of a sudden, he says, well, why don't you set up a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, and she took offense at that. She's not -- she's a reporter. She's not a government official.
Or he says to black woman reporters, you're dumb or you're nasty, and these people take offense. I don't think there's any question about it, Greg. And they do feel that it's somewhat racial. So you know, it's not -- it's not playing a card. I think people are genuinely offended. I know, when he was talking about that American judge who was had a case involving him. He said, guy couldn't be fair because he had Mexican president -- appearance. I know people thought that was racist.
So there's a lot going on here. I just hope that people can just be honest and not necessarily play any card but at least have an honest discussion. Something's going on here. I guess --
GUTFELD: Yes. We are having an honest discussion. You can't sit here --
WILLIAMS: -- you know, I wouldn't walk away the way that he did.
GUTFELD: You were right. You can't read his mind. The fact that he says -- he calls everybody nasty, Dana. We know that. We know he calls everybody names.
WILLIAMS: No. You know, that's the thing about one man and --
GUTFELD: He treated Rand Paul pretty bad during the -- oh, my God. Is your amnesia that bad? Is your amnesia that bad that you forget the debates and what he did to everybody during the debates, the nicknames? He was ruthless. All right, we got to move. Dana, last word to you. Thoughts. Do you find that her question -- here's a -- I felt her question was deliberately designed to create some attention and not to gain knowledge.
PERINO: Well, welcome to the White House press briefings. I mean, that's been true for a long time. You know, the question about testing had come up over and over again. I will say that when -- as soon as I heard him say it, I was like, she might take offense at it or it might gain some steam. And even if he didn't mean it that way, it's how it comes across and perception is a lot of it.
The briefing was really good yesterday about testing. We've got a lot of information out there. And I think the White House wants more of these briefings. So if the 18th question on testing is going to push everybody over the edge may be just asked 16 questions on testing next time.
GUTFELD: Yes, there you go. All right, up next, will Joe Biden ever come out of hiding? The former V.P. explains his basement campaign next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: The Coronavirus taking Joe Biden off the campaign trail, forcing him to campaign from his basement in Delaware. Now, critics claim the Democrats are hiding him. But the presumptive nominee, he's pushing back. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm anxious to go out and campaign, George. You know, when I campaign, I'm usually the first one there and the last one to leave. I enjoy interfacing with people. I'm not trying to avoid it, but I'm trying to set an example as to how we should proceed in terms of dealing with this health and economic crisis.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: Finally, Mr. Vice President --
BIDEN: And no damage so far that I can see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: So Jessie, do you think that's right? No damage so far. He's up, I think, it's plus four and the Real Clear Politics average polls and the President's approval rating not going up, but about 45 disapproval about 51, so what's the damage to the Biden?
WATTERS: Well, you're wrong because Biden's lead on Trump went from seven to four since the quarantine. And Trump is in an all-time high in Gallup 49 percent approval. So Biden has lost ground under quarantine. He doesn't want to leave his house. He's afraid to go outside. He wouldn't know what to do if he went outside and his advisors are still getting paid. So they're happy to keep Joe locked up so he doesn't make more gaffs.
I mean, it's -- Biden could go get a test. He could go tour at a mask factory. He could go look at a lab. They just opened up Amtrak. He could take a ride on Amtrak. People could see him getting out there, and it would inspire confidence. He says he's doing this because he wants to lead by example. No one looks to Joe Biden to say what to do with coronavirus. Every interview, he's coughing touching his face. Come on, the guy doesn't know what he's doing.
The other thing is to -- Juan, listen, Joe Biden is going to get rusty in the basement. He's out of shape. He's going to come in and the debates are going to go up. He's going to get his clock clean. He's not ready. And no one's ever said Joe Biden has been a strong campaigner. That's -- no one has ever said this guy is a workaholic. So stop acting like he's the first one there and the last one to leave.
WILLIAMS: So Greg, the question arises, the president says he'll get Joe Biden the test so you can get out of the basement, get on the campaign trail, but do you think that Biden is just happy to have a referendum on Trump and Trump's briefings and every mistake Trump makes?
GUTFELD: No. I mean, again, what is it -- what -- how sad is it when the best thing you can say about your candidate is that he's out of sight, right? That -- it's like -- it's such a relief that he's hidden. The pandemic gave the Democrats the perfect excuse to keep Biden under wraps. Oh, he's quarantining. He's now like a generic candidate in a survey. He's there and not there.
If the Dems have their way, no one will see Joe in the flesh until Election Day when they will come out in bubble wrap, you know, with a pre-recorded message. You know, this is not -- this is not a candidate you could support if he must be kept in secret. His best trait is his absence, which is why they're navigating to find some kind of V.P. that will add to it.
And how -- I mean -- and I believe it's probably going to be Kamala Harris, right? Because you know why?
WILLIAMS: I don't know.
GUTFELD: Oh, you don't know?
WILLIAMS: Katie, what do you think about -- I think -- I don't know, personally. I don't. But Katie, what do you think about the ads? I see that the Trump campaign is going to roll out $10 million in ads trying to tie Biden to China?
PAVLICH: Yes. You know, the digital game is one that the Trump campaign has won before. They have a lot of money to do it. And the Biden campaign is running this ad in places like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, blaming President Trump for the collapse of the economy. Well, that opens the door right up to say, do you want to Biden economy which he mimic less than two percent GDP growth as you saw, or do you want a Trump economy? So -- and the China thing, there's a lot of questions that he's going to have to answer about that.
WILLIAMS: So Dana, where would you go on that? If you're the Trump campaign, do you think it's early to be spending that much money? It seems early, but they have a lot of money to spend.
PERINO: No, I don't.
WILLIAMS: They have -- they've raised a tremendous amount of money. Yes.
PERINO: Yes, they have a lot of money. And remember that adage that presidential campaigns are won or lost in the late spring in early summer. So, I think now is absolutely the time that both campaigns should try to step on the gas. We're in a pandemic. That might look very different.
I have a feeling and got a little Spidey sense that we might not actually see Joe Biden until late summer, you know, leaving his house. I think that that is an actual possibility. However, I think the country is so polarized that up -- that you will see this race be neck and neck all the way up until the fall.
WILLIAMS: Thanks, Dana. Coming up, a dangerous situation in prisons. Inmates trying to infect themselves with the coronavirus on purpose. Wow. We're going to tell you more about that after the break on THE FIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAVLICH: Welcome back. Coronavirus chaos wrapping up in some major liberal California cities. San Francisco coming under fire after a homeless camp tripled in size during outbreak. The city being sued because the encampment grew by 300 percent creating unsanitary and unsafe conditions.
And over in Los Angeles, a sheriff saying inmates are deliberately trying to infect themselves with the coronavirus in an effort to get early release. So this is a lightning round. Dana, what are your thoughts about this?
PERINO: Sorry, did you say my name? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you because of the timing --
PERINO: I did, yes. idea.
(CROSSTALK)
PAVLICH: Yes, Dana, lightning round, over to you.
PERINO: OK. I think one -- yes, a lot of people do recover from the virus, but a lot of people get very, very sick and many, many people have died. So trying to infect yourself is a terrible idea. California had so many problems before this pandemic that now this is all compounding.
And we just heard right before this show that the public health commissioner in Los Angeles County is basically saying they might not be able to let up on their lockdown for another three months. So their problems are just like exponentially growing.
PERINO: Greg?
GUTFELD: Yes, inmates trying to get the virus is a lesson in incentives. The government incentivize them by linking the disease to freedom. And the choice was kind of logical. Five years in a cell with somebody who hate or take a chance at two weeks to three weeks of near-death illness, I would take the risk too, and I'm kind of OK with prison. I like three meals and being alone.
As for the broken system that Dana mentioned, it's enabled by moral cowards who are fearful that any adult decision dealing with the homeless and mentally ill will be viewed as the media as anti-compassion. And that isn't going to get better in a pandemic.
PERINO: All right, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, I just think those prisoners, I mean, if they're trying to rig the system -- the system -- I mean, if they're -- if they've committed violent crimes, you're not getting out. But they just trying to outsmart the system and you just got to treat it as utter stupidity. That's all I would say.
PAVLICH: Well, Jesse, we've seen violent criminals get out too, not just the non-violent ones.
WATTERS: Yes. I mean, if I went to prison, which I probably will when the deep state sets a perjury trap for me, I would do whatever I could to get out. I'd ask, you know, Big Leroy to cough right in my face so I could get out of there. Whatever it takes.
PAVLICH: All right, all right, "ONE MORE THING" up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: OK, so television can be tough. Sometimes you really don't know when the cameras are on, if they're even on you or not. This is what happened to CBS Morning News Anchor Tony D. Yes, he's just passed out. It's early. He just fell asleep. Now, he denies he fell asleep. He said he was looking down at his iPad. Sure, you were. Sure, you were. Who knows what he did, but he looks like he dosed up. Anyway, Kilmeade would never do that, ever, ever. Maybe I do see (INAUDIBLE). All right, Dana, what do you got?
PERINO: Well, they've got a young baby at home, so maybe that has to do with it. Look, if you want a dog, and you're in Nashville, big news. Nashville Humane Association teamed up with Pedigree and zoom. And if you go to meetyournewdog.com, you can meet your dog virtually. And then you won't even have to leave your house and Pedigree will cover the adoption fees. And that's happening tonight at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, meetyournewdog.com.
Also, I will be your mentor tonight at Minute Mentoring, Instagram -- my Instagram page, 7:00 p.m. I'll be interviewed, taking your questions, all things mentoring.
WATTERS: Nice. I will -- I will be there and I will -- I'll try to absorb some of that mentoring knowledge. All right, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Hey, Dana, my son just adopted a dog like that. So that's a really cool idea.
PERINO: Excellent.
WILLIAMS: Let's get gnarly. That's a skateboard -- in the skateboard world, gnarly means let's do a dangerous trick. Take a look at this guy.
PERINO: Wow.
WILLIAMS: Yes, that's 11-year-old -- that's 11-year-old Gui Khury. And what you're watching is the first time that a young man was able to do three full rotations on a skateboard on a vertical ramp. That's three times a 360 rotation. That's why they call it a 1080. Khury's amazing trick broke the record set by skateboarding legend, Tony Hawk.
PERINO: Wow.
WATTERS: All right. Greg, you can do tricks like that, right?
GUTFELD: I never knew when gnarly meant until Juan informed me. Wow. You know what? I can't do my animal thing, but did you know that Matthew McConaughey is going to be on Bret Baier. All right, all right, all right, how do you like that?
PERINO: All right, all right, all right.
GUTFELD: We can watch it over by the moon tower. We can watch it on the moon tower, Dana. I'll bring a keg.
WATTERS: Wow, we got a McConaughey impression and a Russian impression in the same show.
PERINO: It's my favorite imitation that you do.
WATTERS: I love it.
GUTFELD: Twice in one day.
WATTERS: Quick.
PERINO: But we owe Katie two one more thing.
WATTERS: All right.
GUTFELD: Poor Katie.
WATTERS: Sorry, Katie. We got to pay the bills.
PAVLICH: It's OK.
WATTERS: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of THE FIVE. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next with Bret.
Content and Programming Copyright 2020 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2020 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
Fox News First
Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox.
By entering your email and clicking the Subscribe button, you agree to the Fox News Privacy Policy and Terms of Use, and agree to receive content and promotional communications from Fox News. You understand that you can opt-out at any time.