NIH Director: Omicron variant 'particularly contagious,' severity remains unknown
National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins says it’s too early to tell whether omicron is a mild or severe variant.
This is a rush transcript of "Fox News Sunday" on November 28, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Trace Gallagher, in for Chris
Wallace.
A new coronavirus variant sends markets plummeting, as the world races to
contain and assess the threats.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't know a lot about the
variant, except it is a great concern, seems to spread rapidly.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Stocks and oil plunge as new COVID fears rattle
markets. Countries rushed to restrict flights and impose new travel limits
as scientists determine the effectiveness of current vaccines on the new
variant.
We'll ask National Institutes of Health director, Dr. Frances Collins, what
this means for public health, and ask top economist Mohamed El-Erian about
the impact on the pandemic recovery.
And --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): We need to fund the government. The deadline is
December 3rd.
GALLAGHER: From avoiding a government shutdown to raising the debt limit
and passing a critical defense spending bill, lawmakers return to lengthy
to-do list. We'll discuss with top Republican leader in the Senate, John
Barrasso in Wyoming. It's a "FOX News Sunday" exclusive.
Then, the Biden administration expected to reinstate the controversial
"Remain in Mexico" policy, undoing a key immigration promise. We'll ask our
Sunday panel about the ongoing crisis at the southern border.
Plus, our Power Player of the Week, Chris, once again dances with turkeys.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Gobble, gobble, gobble --
GALLAGHER: All right now on "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER: And hello again from FOX News.
The Biden administration has ordered new travel restrictions from South
Africa and seven other countries starting tomorrow in response to a new
coronavirus variant. World health officials have designated the variant
Omicron and have warned against overreaction. But its detection ahs sparked
a new wave of global anxiety, as cases popped up in multiple countries just
days after first being identified.
In a moment, we'll ask head of the National Institutes of Health, Dr.
Frances Collins, what we know so far about the threat of Omicron.
But, first, let's turn to Jacqui Heinrich. She's traveling with the
president in Nantucket with more on the Biden administration's reaction --
Jacqui.
JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Trace, there was quick action
from the White House is announcing those travel restrictions but less
urgency in imposing them, leaving an entire weekend until they take effect.
President Biden said that was his medical team's advice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEINRICH (voice-over): President Biden urging Americans to get vaccinated
and if eligible, get booster shots after shutting down travel to eight
African countries to keep Omicron from spreading.
BIDEN: We always talk about whether this is about freedom. I think it is
patriotic responsibility.
HEINRICH: The CDC says, so far, it hasn't tracked any cases of Omicron in
the U.S. The White House top doctor, Anthony Fauci, says it may already be
here.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: I would not be surprised if it is. It
almost invariably, it's ultimately going to go essentially all over.
HEINRICH: No more travel restrictions are expected yet.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll take it one step
at a time, but as of now, we've done what we believe is necessary.
HEINRICH: Other countries are ramping up efforts to contain the virus.
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson imposing stricter rules for masking
and testing international travelers after two cases were detected.
BORIS JOHNSON, UK PRIME MINISTER: We will require all contacts of those
who test positive with suspected case of Omicron to self-isolate for 10
days regardless of your vaccination status.
HEINRICH: Israel shut down its border to foreigners, entirely, spooked
over a single Omicron case. Vaccine manufacturers are already mobilizing.
Pfizer says a shot of a vaccine resistant strain would take 100 days.
Moderna, already testing a high dose booster, is working on Omicron-
specific shot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEINRICH: President Biden says no more mandates are ahead at this time.
But Omicron's emergence is adding urgency to the administration's
vaccination efforts and it's happening against backdrop of sinking poll
numbers, plunging markets and multiple year-end deadlines in congress --
Trace.
GALLAGHER: A lot of changes. Jacqui Heinrich reporting from Nantucket --
Jacqui, thank you.
Joining us now, National Institutes of Health Director, Dr. Francis
Collins.
Doctor, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday." Good morning to you, sir.
What do we need to know about the Omicron variant, is it more contagious?
Will it lead to more severe disease? Your thoughts, sir.
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH DIRECTOR: Well, those
are the right questions, Trace. And this is early enough that it's hard to
be sure we know the answers and that's what a lot of us are spending our
time on. Over the last three days I think I've been on Zoom calls and phone
calls pretty much continuously.
GALLAGHER: Yes.
COLLINS: We do know that this is a variant that has a lot of mutations,
like 50 of them and more than 30 of those in the spike protein, which is
the part of the virus that attaches to your human cells if you get
infected, that is a new record in terms of the number of mutations. It does
make you worry, therefore, that it's a sufficiently different virus, that
it might not respond as well to protection from the vaccines. But we don't
know that.
We can certainly see that in South Africa and a few neighboring countries
in south part of Africa, this does seem to be spreading quite rapidly, so
the inference would be there that it's particularly contagious. We don't
know about its severity, trying to collect that data as quickly as
possible.
GALLAGHER: Yes. I'm interested, when you talk about spiked proteins, it
tends to confuse people. When you say various mutations and spiked
proteins, specifically, sir, what do you mean by that?
COLLINS: So remember the picture of this virus, that it has these spikes
on its surface, which are made up of protein, that's the part of the virus
that has to find a receptor on your cell to get inside. So there's sort of
a lock and a key there. And this one is, apparently, able to still do that,
it's infecting people. But the shape of that protein is different because
of these 30 plus mutations so that it looks a little different.
So if you've raised the antibodies against that from previously being
infected or from being vaccinated, the question is will those antibodies
still stick to this version of the spiked protein or will it evade that
protection? We need to find that out. To be honest though, that's going to
take two or three weeks in both laboratory and field studies to figure out
the answer and that's what all of us, as scientist, want to know.
GALLAGHER: And very quickly because I know you say you don't really know
much about this variant. But when you have these doctors in the South
African Medical Association, including one who actually spotted this
variant down in South Africa, and he says, you know, the symptoms tend to
be mild. Is it too early to make that declaration?
COLLINS: I think it's too early, Trace. I think the initial cases were
mostly young people who tend to have mild infections anyway. We need more
data there before we could say confidently that this is not a severe
version of the virus. But we should find that out in the next couple of
weeks.
GALLAGHER: So Dr. Collins, let's move on now. The president has put a
travel ban in eighth South African countries, let's put those on the
screen. Here's the vaccination rates of those countries. You can see, they
go all the way up to 27 percent in Lesotho, and then all the way down to
3.2 percent in Malawi, which is extraordinarily low.
The former Biden adviser, Dr. Zeke Emanuel, said the following, and I'm
quoting here, "Restricting travel is going to slow its coming, not stop it
from coming.The face that it's coming here is inevitable. The environment
in which it comes may not be inevitable. We can alter the environment."
And if it's just a case of trying to slow it down, Dr. Collins, why not put
in place more travel bans? Because the people in South Africa, some of the
government officials there, feel like they're being singled out, feel like
this is a little bit discriminatory against them.
COLLINS: Well, I think it is a difficult decision, Trace, and this is just
the best advice of the public health experts. And you'll notice other
countries like the U.K. and the E.U. are doing the same.
Keep in mind, of course, that everybody who's a foreign traveler coming to
the U.S. has to have a test, three days in advance if you're vaccinated,
one day in advance if you're unvaccinated. So we are screening travelers
from everywhere. But given the current circumstance, out of an abundance of
caution, seeing that this is the most serious new variant that we've seen
in several months, it made sense for -- at least for a temporary measure,
we're not going to say this is going to be there for a long time to block
travel from those countries where we know Omicron is already spreading.
GALLAGHER: Yes, we talked about the vaccination rates in some of these
South African countries. I want to put up the vaccination rates and booster
rates from this country, Doctor, because it's kind of a fascinating look
here, 59.1 percent vaccination -- that's fully vaccinated, 19.1 percent of
boosters.
And the question is, will the vaccines need to be modified for Omicron? I
mean -- and if they do need to be modified, why would people get the
booster tomorrow when they might have to get a brand-new booster in 30
days, in two months?
COLLINS: Well, Trace, I'm glad we're talking about this. For Americans
listening to this right now, this is an action you can take, if you're not
vaccinated yet or if you haven't gotten your booster. It's clear that in
all the previous examples of variants, the vaccines have worked to provide
protection and the boosters have provided especially strong protection
against things like Delta.
Given that history, we expect that most likely the current vaccines will be
sufficient to provide protection and especially the boosters will give that
additional layer of protection, because there's something about the booster
that causes your immune system to really expand its capacity against all
kinds of different spike proteins, even ones it hasn't seen before.
So please, Americans, if you're one of those folks who are sort of waiting
to see, this would be a great time to sign up, get your booster. Or if you
haven't been vaccinate already, get started. Omicron is one more reason to
do this.
Now, if we need a new vaccine designed specifically against Omicron, Pfizer
and Moderna are already in the process of designing that, but that's going
to be at least three months or so to come into being, if we have to do it.
All of us hope we don't need to do that.
GALLAGHER: So you think it will be modified but for now, for the time
being, vaccines we have are working just fine.
I want to put up the four states and their vaccination rates because that
really kind of gives us an idea here of where we're going. You see
Michigan, 54 percent vaccination rate. A new case rate of 59 percent.
Maine, kind of the same thing, very high vaccination rate, high new cases.
New York 68, 22. You look at the bottom there, Dr. Collins, you have
Florida, 61 percent vaccination rate, down in cases. You know, it was only
a couple of months ago the media was giving Florida an awful hard time,
saying that Ron DeSantis' policies were all wrong.
What's going on here? Why are some of the states with some of the most
severe lockdowns and mandates doing poorly and states like Florida that
have virtually mandates doing quite well?
COLLINS: Well, it all comes down to who is actually getting the disease
and, especially, who's getting sick enough to be in the hospital or to die.
Keep in mind, getting a mild case of the illness certainly happens as
breakthroughs from the vaccinated folks, although boosters really help
prevent that. But if you're talking about who is in the hospital and who is
dying, those are still the unvaccinated people and there are lots of those
in all the states you just mentioned.
If there's a lesson here it's, come on, America, we have missed the chance
to be at a much higher level of vaccination across the country that would
put us in a stronger position. For all those reasons of misinformation that
people have heard, we've not done what we should have done to protect
ourselves.
If Omicron is one more wake-up call then let's wake up and, come on,
America, you can do this. These vaccines are safe. They're effective.
People have been using them for more than a year, 200 million people plus
have gotten injected. These are something you want for yourself, your
family, your community.
GALLAGHER: Yes. Dr. Collins, I've got about a minute left here. We talk a
lot about these antiviral pills, Merck and Pfizer, and some of them say,
look, these are game-changers. These pills are game-changers. Do you worry
that when they come out with these new pills and they are as effective as
what we're being told, that it will lessen people's need or hurry to get
this vaccine?
COLLINS: It does worry me, Trace, although it would not be a rationale
conclusion because these are pills that you would take if you are shown to
be infected. You don't want to be infected. This -- take the analogy, do
you want to wear your seat belt or just forget that and count on the
emergency room to patch up your broken bones? I think the seat belt is a
better deal. The vaccines are your seats belt, use them.
If for some reason you still get sick, it will be great to have these
antivirals. I am tickled to see them emerging. Molnupiravir, the Merck
drug, will be debated on Tuesday, the Pfizer drug, PAXLOVID, is not far
behind. It's great that we're going to have something like that. But that
is not the whole answer. Prevention is better than treatment.
GALLAGHER: Yes, it is a bit of good news. Dr. Francis Collins, thank you
for joining us, sir. We appreciate it.
COLLINS: Glad to be with you, Trace.
GALLAGHER: Yes.
Up next, shoppers are back in the stores as new virus worries rise. We'll
discuss how the new variant could complicate the U.S. recovery with leading
voice in the financial world, Mohamed El-Erian is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GALLAGHER: Wall Street fears over the new coronavirus variant overshadowed
any post-Thanksgiving Black Friday headlines. The Dow plunging hundreds of
points, its worst showing of the year with travel and energy stocks hit the
hardest. It's another setback for President Biden who had attempted to
signal economic stability this week by appointing his Federal Reserve chair
for a second term.
Joining us now, Mohamed El-Erian, who led PIMCO for years and is now the
chief economic advisor at Allianz.
And, Dr. El-Erian, thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.
I want to put these numbers up on the board from Friday. This is kind of
what we were dealing with. You had the Dow down 2.5 percent. The energy
sector down, you know, almost 4 percent, a little more than 4 percent. The
oil down 13 percent.
What do you make of this? Is the market uncertainty because every time
there's a travel ban put in place, we tend to realize that soon to follow
might be more lockdowns? Is that what's happening here?
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER AT ALLIANZ: Yes. So -- and it's
happening the world. The marketplace is worried about two things: one, that
yet another variant of COVID is going to hit them hard, we travel less, we
go out to restaurants less, and we may have additional restrictions that
are imposed on us. That's issue number one.
And issue number two, the marketplace is worried also that this will cause
more inflation, that supply chain will be disrupted even more.
Those two things together, Trace -- lower growth, high inflation are
stagflation, and that's what the market is worried about right now.
GALLAGHER: Yeah. We're going to get your take more on inflation coming up.
But I just want to briefly touch on the fact that the recent job numbers
were pretty encouraging. Still, clearly, too many jobs, not enough people
to fill those jobs.
When you think about, you know, politics coming back this week. You know,
senators back in tomorrow, the House back in Tuesday. We're talking about
the social spending bill.
Is this a time in your estimation, Doctor, that -- that we should be
injecting trillions of dollars into the economy, dealing with inflation?
EL-ERIAN: Trace, this is a controversial issue because it has a good side
and a bad side. The good side is that it helps on the labor market. The
problem we have in the labor market is not that we have a loss of
employment, is that we have too many people outside the labor market. They
need to be attracted back in.
And what the bill does, it tries to increase labor force interpretation, it
helps on the supply side.
The issue that people have is yes, that's great, but what about demand
side? Are you really want to -- you want to put more dollars in economy
that's already running hot?
I think, net-net, when you balance these two things, you want to go ahead
because you really want to help the supply side and Federal Reserve has to
do more to compensate on the demand side.
GALLAGHER: Yeah, you have been critical of the Fed and the way they have
handled inflation in some of your writings. We'll get to that in one
second.
Of course, the president, kind of, kept status quo. He nominated Jay Powell
to remain the chair of the Fed here.
You write the following in "The Financial Times" on Thursday. Quoting here:
The continued sidelining of the inflation threat by the Fed risks making
things worse by de-anchoring inflationary expectations due to the
persistent of extremely loose monetary policy. Record -- record easy
financial conditions, according to weekly Goldman Sachs index of them, and
the lack of adequate forward policy guidance.
So, do you think this was time for a change at the Fed?
EL-ERIAN: I think it's time for a change in policy at the Fed, and I was
of the view that this may be easier with someone who hasn't repeated over
and over again that inflation is transitory, don't worry about it, it's
going away.
Inflation is not transitory and it's really important for the Fed to
realize this, because the worst thing that can happen is that in addition
to the supply disruption, which they can't do anything about, in addition
to labor shortages, they destabilize our expectations and we change
behavior even faster. Companies increase prices faster, wage earners insist
on higher wages, even more, and next thing you know, you got a cycle of
inflation. That's what we need to avoid.
GALLAGHER: When you say not transitory and a cycle of inflation, I'm
wondering how long you think that drags on? Is it permanent?
I mean, when you give somebody a raise, it's not like you're going to take
that raise back in a year. When you're selling a sandwich for 12 bucks now,
it's not like you're going to sell that sandwich for $11.50 six months down
the line.
So, when you see these costs go up, how long before we might see some
pressure ease off of those inflationary gauges?
EL-ERIAN: So, we will see these second round effects you talk about.
People asking for higher wages in order to maintain their purchasing power,
companies raising prices in order to maintain their margins and it will go
on well into next year, and then it will ease, but ease for the wrong
reason.
What I'm worried about is that it will ease because the Fed is going to
have to hit the brakes.
Trace, we haven't got a single historical experience in which the Fed has
been led to the policy challenge and has not caused recession. So, rather
than hit the brakes hard next year, it's much easier to ease your foot off
the accelerator starting now.
GALLAGHER: Yeah. We think -- talking about gauges, a good gauge, you know,
we haven't really seen the numbers yet. We'll see those probably tomorrow
or Tuesday, but you talk about Black Friday, and some of the financial
headlines. We're saying that Black Friday was busy, but not really Black
Friday busy.
Is it because we're holding back or is it because we were told to shop
because of supply chain crisis, we were told to shop early and we did? What
do you make of what you're seeing so far?
EL-ERIAN: I think the latter has a lot to do with it, people were worried
about supplies in the last two months, and we saw a big jump in retail
sales that came earlier than a lot of people expected. So, I think quite a
few people accelerated their purchases.
I don't think we have issue with demand. I think incomes are strong, retail
sales are strong. Companies have lots of money.
The problem is the supply side. And unless we fix supply side, it will
contaminate the demand side. So, that's why it's really important to focus
on two big issues that we have. Supply disruptions and inflation.
GALLAGHER: Yeah. And you talk about inflation, one of the biggest
indicators is gas prices. I mean, I was -- I tell you people outside the
door, it's, you know, $5.60 a gallon.
On one hand, you have president tapping these oil reserves, you know,
adding 50 million barrels of oil to the market, on the other hand, he wants
to make it more expensive to drill for oil on federal property.
How do you square the two, Dr. Erian?
EL-ERIAN: So, we are in this funny period, where we have transition
issues. We're moving away from fossil fuel, coal, oil and we're moving
somewhere else that hasn't been built up yet. So, the middle part gets
enormous pressure, and that's what you're seeing with gas prices, for
example, record gas prices. Why? Because of this transition.
It is a transition. It will go away. In the meantime, the administration is
trying to lessen it not only by releasing supplies but also asking other
countries to do the same, and that's what we saw last week. It will have
marginal impact. It won't have a permanent impact, but it's very important
signaling,
GALLAGHER: Yeah, signals. You know, we got about 45 seconds left here, Dr.
El-Erian. What's biggest takeaway right now from the economy. What's the
biggest warning you have?
EL-ERIAN: Take inflation seriously because it can by itself derail our
economic recovery.
GALLAGHER: Dr. El-Erian, thank you for joining us, sir. We appreciate it.
EL-ERIAN: Thank you.
GALLAGHER: Well, up next, news of the new variant complicates a packed
agenda as lawmakers return to Capitol Hill. We'll discuss. The third
ranking Senate Republican when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GALLAGHER: Well, the new COVID variant is yet another hurdle in an
otherwise decidedly busy time in Washington. The Senate set to return
tomorrow, the House on Tuesday. Lawmakers have just a few days to avert a
government shutdown and a little more than two weeks to raise the limit on
borrowing or default for the first time in the nation's history while
Democrats face their own self-imposed year-end deadline to pass the
president's Build Back Better plan with likely no Republican support.
With us now from Wyoming, the number three Republican in the Senate, John
Barrasso. He is a senator.
Welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY, sir.
We've got a lot of politics to talk about. As we said, you know, you're
going back to work tomorrow. The House comes back on Tuesday.
But, very quickly, a lot of breaking news on the Omicron variant. You're a
medical doctor as well, Senator Barrasso. Give us your quick take. Are you
concerned about the new variant coming possibly, maybe already here, in the
United States?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Well, you know, as a doctor, I am pro-vaccine
and I'm anti the mandate. Vaccines work. We have a new variant. There's
going to continue to be new variants in the future. Medicines are better
now than they have been.
But I think the president was wrong with his mandate. I think it was a
monumental overreach. And I think it's actually hardened people against the
vaccine. And the president has divided the country because of the mandate.
Now you have a couple of governors saying, oh, two shots isn't enough. Now
you have to have three.
The thing that are interesting about this, the last guest just talked about
the inflation that we have. We have 10 million job openings in this country
and yet the president, with his mandate, wants to fire people who have been
going to work every day since the pandemic started. People who may not want
to get the vaccine. Police officers, fire fighters, nurses, border patrol.
So that's one part of it.
The other is, Joe Biden ran for office basically hiding in his basement
saying he could protect America from Covid. Well, he didn't. He can't. And
more people have died of Covid under President Biden than did in all of
2020.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And we are going to talk about that
coming up with the panel.
Meantime, the Build Back Better bill, you've got a lot of stuff going on
this week up on The Hill. Senator, what's the status of that? Where do you
think it's going? Is it -- is it now time to inject trillions of dollars
back into the economy?
BARRASSO: No, we have record inflation right now. I view this as a back-
breaking bill for the country with the kind of expenses, the spending, the
adding to the debt, the inflation, the taxes that are going to hit the
American people.
And, you know, for Joe Biden to say we have to spend even more money on top
of inflation, I mean, to me, this is Alice in Wonderland logic. He's the
Mad Hatter out here. He continues to try to mislead the American people,
first saying the cost will be zero, zero, zero, when the budget analysts
have said it's going to be hundreds of billions of dollars added to the
debt. People's taxes are going to go up. They -- he said, oh, no, only if
you make over $400,000 a year. That's not what the tax experts are telling
us. They say one out of three middle class Americans will pay more in
taxes.
So, on all of these issues and inflation across the board people saying,
we're looking at persistent inflation. We cannot ignore inflation. That is
the thing that's going to hurt our economy the most.
GALLAGHER: You talk about Republicans. They're against the Build Back
Better thing. They're also against raising the debt limit. Mitch McConnell
said it would just enable Democratic spending.
But "The Wall Street Journal" says, and I'm quoting here, sir, vote to
raise the debt limit doesn't authorize new spending but it's essentially it
allows the Treasury to raise money to pay for expense the government has
already authorized. So this is to pay for things already authorized. And
it's important to point out, in your state alone, this is paying for things
like almost 30,000 people getting SNAP benefits. Of course that's food
benefits. And 33,000 students eligible for free or reduced school lunches.
So a lot of benefits from this to your state, Senator. Why are you against
it?
BARRASSO: Well, in my state, I was a member of the state senate. Our
constitution demands that we balance our budget every year, that we live
within our means, just like families all across America need to do. And I
think the federal government ought to do the same thing.
This is all about Democrat spending. This is 100 percent on them. If you
get rid of all of the gimmicks of accounting, this bill that the Democrats
are proposing is $4 trillion in additional spending. There's not a single
Republican who's going to vote for the bill or to raise the debt ceiling.
This is on the Democrats.
GALLAGHER: You know, you are also the ranking member of the energy
committee. And I want to put this up on the thing. The food, gas,
electricity prices, we've seen this and we talked about this with Dr. El-
Erian. You know, the fact that food is up, gas is up 49.6 percent,
electricity, 6.5 percent. We're not even at the coldest part of the winter,
Senator. It's going to get bad for a lot of families. It's going to get
very expensive.
You have the president putting 50 million barrels of oil from the reserve
back on the market, maybe hit the market sometime mid-December. But, on the
other hand, the president was also making it more expensive to drill on
federal lands. Sir, how do you -- how do you square the two?
BARRASSO: It can't be squared. The president isn't able to do this.
Look, today is one of the busiest travel days in America. And as people are
hitting the road, gas prices are hitting the roof. Day one in the -- in the
White House, the president drew a target on the back of American energy,
pulled the trigger. And now, with this Strategic Petroleum Reserve, what
he's doing is basically trying to put a little band aid on that bullet
hole.
The Strategic Petroleum Reserve is there for emergencies, national
emergencies, war, not to cover over bad policies. The amount that he's
releasing is equal to what we use in this country in just two and a half
days. And, today, in America, we're using more oil from Russia, from
Vladimir Putin's Russia than we are from Alaska.
This is a jackpot for Vladimir Putin. And what the -- we have this oil in
the ground, the president and the environmental movement will not let us
use American oil. So, President Biden is going hat in hand to OPEC and to
Russia saying, please, produce more oil so we can buy it from you. This is
a disaster. It's a major policy mistake. We need to be using American
energy.
GALLAGHER: And as you get to work back on Capitol hill this week, sir,
what's the remedy from the Republicans? What's the remedy for this? If the
president leads here, if the president's moves are not the elixir, what is
it? What do we do to get gas prices down? What do we do to get energy
prices down and stabilized before we move into winter?
BARRASSO: Yes, we use American energy. We stop the bans that this
administration has on energy. You know, Senator Manchin, who's the ranking
member of the -- who's the chairman of the energy committee, on which I'm
the rank member, said, let's get the Keystone Pipeline going. There's lots
-- we have the resources here. We are much stronger as a nation if we are
selling energy to our friends than if we have to buy it from our enemies.
Look, I just got back from the Persian Gulf I spend Thanksgiving there with
the Wyoming troops and talking to military leaders. After what happened in
Afghanistan and the disaster of the withdrawal, our enemies are much more
aggressive. And to be giving a jackpot of additional money to Vladimir
Putin is really in the long-term detriment of the United States.
GALLAGHER: You talk about the Persian Gulf. What are they saying about the
American energy policies? I mean, you know, the president has gone to OPEC
saying, hey, we need to open the spigots a little bit and get some more oil
on the market. What are they saying? I mean they've been -- they've been
hesitant to do that. What's the word over there? Is there this belief the
maybe the United States should be doing more to help itself?
BARRASSO: Well, we ought to be doing more to help ourselves. It's incumbent
upon us to do that. There are ways that we -- we can protect the
environment without punishing the economy. I don't know that the Democrats
understand that major concept. But what I saw in the Persian Gulf was a
much more aggressive Iran. Also we're seeing it with communist China. We're
seeing it with Vladimir Putin. We're seeing it with North Korea.
And you talked about all the things that we haven't done yet in Congress.
This National Defense Authorization Act, this should have been passed
months ago, but it's been on the back burner for Joe Biden and for Chuck
Schumer. We never want to send our men and women in uniform into a fair
fight. We want to make sure that they have strength, can project strength.
We want to make sure they have the equipment, the manpower, the firepower
that they need. And this administration, not just is wrong on energy, they
have been very weak. This president has been weak on national defense
because when he came into office, his first budget basically super-sized
government on everything except for two areas where we didn't even keep up
with inflation. One was defense, the other was homeland security. Our
nation deserves better.
GALLAGHER: You make a very good point on the National Defense Authorization
Act because now you have, you know, Russian troops amassing at the
Ukrainian border, you have China with threatening language toward Taiwan,
and yet the window is narrowing to get this done. I mean it's been passed
60 years in a row. We're assuming that -- that, you know, Congress will
move heaven and earth to get it passed, but the window is narrowing. Well,
how do you get this thing done quickly?
BARRASSO: You're right, the window is narrowing because we have that. The
government runs out of money this Friday. We have the debt ceiling, as you
mentioned, And Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer want to pass this massive tax
and spending bill by Christmas. We have an entire Republican conference who
wants to do everything we can to defeat it. I think the best Christmas
present for the American people would be to block these increased taxes,
block this bill that causes more inflation. And the more people know what's
in this bill, the worse it becomes because people really don't like so many
of the things that are in this bill, which is going to raise taxes and
increase inflation.
GALLAGHER: Senator John Barrasso, Dr. Barrasso, thank you for joining us
this morning. We appreciate it.
BARRASSO: Thank you, Trace.
GALLAGHER: And, up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discuss the new
Covid developments and the impact on the health of the public and the
economy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: The markets have dropped significantly today. What's your
response to that?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Expected. They always do when
there's something -- when Covid rises.
QUESTION: But does it worry you at all?
BIDEN: Not at all. Why would it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: President Biden responding to questions about the massive market
sell-off in response to the detection of a new Covid variant.
And it's now time for our Sunday group.
Fox News contributor Karl Rove, congressional correspondent for "The
Washington Post," Jackie Alamany, and Fox News political analyst Juan
Williams.
Welcome to all three of you. Great to see you.
Karl, to you first. You heard the president say there that he's not really
concerned about what happened to the market on Friday, dropped 2.5 percent.
Oil was down. You had, you know, energy prices down across the board. Do
you buy that, that he's not concerned about what's happening with the
omicron variant to the economy?
KAR ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, sure, they absolutely are concerned
about it and they ought to be. This -- this has been -- we're now in the
second year of the pandemic. They've -- we've got a new challenge. We --
there are a lot of variables that we don't yet understand and, of course,
it's going to have an economic impact. We've had more people die this year
than we had die of Covid last year. The administration, which sort of
suggested when it came aboard that this was going to be able to put this
all in the rearview mirror by July 4 is clearly not able to do that.
And this is the problem with a pandemic, there are so many variables and so
many unknowns that we have to deal with that it's hard for policymakers to
get their hands around it.
GALLAGHER: Yes, Karl.
You know, and Juan, we -- Karl makes a very good point, we've got vaccines,
we've got therapies. Covid just won't go away. You know, we talked earlier
about this. The president made this comment when he was candidate Biden
about the president at the time, President Trump, and the death toll.
Watch this and I'll get your response on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (October 22, 20202): Two hundred
and twenty thousand Americans dead. Anyone who's responsible for that many
deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: There are now 350,000 deaths, Juan. You know, the president ran
on Covid and now it appears to be undermining him. Your thoughts?
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think that's what the
polls show. I think people, in fact, you know, his poll numbers have
declined, Trace, but one of his strength has been his handling of Covid.
And what we see is that people who are unvaccinated are the ones who are
getting and dying from this terrible disease.
I think when you think about this, though, I don't think there's a reason
for us to all freak out. I think what the president was saying in terms of
his reaction to the economic numbers on Friday is that we have the basic
tools to manage this. We know about a vaccine. We have a vaccine and we
have to see if it has to be adapted to this new virus -- new variant, I
should say. And we know about masks. We know about social distancing. So we
have the basic tools in place and now we are trying to limit the spread
with this travel ban.
I think that he has in mind the idea that we can deal with this. The goal
being, I think others have said this, that even as we deal with this as a
medical issue, we keep the economy strong. And so far, right now, the
economic numbers overall have been good. So if Friday is a blip, as we hope
it might be, it would be because we are showing strong leadership on Covid.
GALLAGHER: Yes, and, Juan brings up numbers, Jackie, so let's put them on
the screen. These are the president's approval numbers, you know, right
there at 41 percent, disapproving at 52 percent. They've been there for a
while.
And Juan makes a good point, Jackie, that his numbers on Covid -- I mean
his number on the border, on Afghanistan were just in the tank, but his
numbers on Covid were -- were fairly good and he can ill afford to lose
that support that he has had on Covid. And with a new variant coming in and
his handling and not being concerned about the economy, that might end up
hurting him, or will it not, Jackie?
JACQUELINE ALEMANY, "WASHINGTON POST" CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well,
we
haven't seen the administration -- we haven't seen their full, robust
response to this yet. So I think what we're going to see going forward is
this White House continue to apply pressure on American pharmaceutical
companies to share their formula more widely with the rest of the world
going forward and maybe sort of tweak the approach that they've taken to
the global pandemic so far.
And we have seen lots of criticism from the WHO previously about richer
countries hoarding vaccinations throughout the course of 2021. You've seen
scientists continually warn the Biden administration and other global
economies and governments that so long as there is a big vaccination gap
between developed countries and less developed countries, the pandemic is
going to remain a problem throughout the world, including in countries
where vaccination rates are higher. The WHO has previously called the
hoarding and stockpiling of vaccines as immoral and something that's self-
defeating, but we actually see real world repercussions here when it comes
to our economy. So I think that's what we're going not see the Biden
administration focus on ongoing forward.
GALLAGHER: And that's a good point, Karl. And you can kind of expound on
that if you would for me because we're going to move subjects. But the
whole idea here of a travel ban, you know, coming in these South African
countries, you know, shouldn't -- and a lot of critics saying, hey, we need
vaccines. We don't need be to isolated. We don't need these kind of travel
bans. What we need is help from the United States.
What do you make of the travel ban, you know, considering that you go back
to when President Trump initiated that travel ban and there was a lot of,
you know, people saying that President Biden intimated that it was
xenophobic of the president. Of course, the campaign pushed back on that
But what do you think of the ban, quickly, Karl?
ROVE: Well, I think it's wise. But the problem for President Biden is he
did politicize this in a -- in the campaign last year. He didn't intimate
that it was an example of hysteria, xenophobia and fearmongering, those
were his exact words. And then we had Vice Presidential Candidate Kamala
Harris saying if Donald Trump tells me that I need to take something, to
take it, I won't take it, attacking the idea of a vaccine. So the
politicization of the issue last year is an overhang.
You're right, his numbers are so-so on Covid, but they used to be pretty
darn good. They have declined over the course of the year. And part of it,
I think, is, is that they made the mistake of politicizing it last year
and, as a result, there's a political reaction of much of what he does this
year.
But it was the right thing to do, to have the travel ban. It may be
temporary, as Dr. Collins suggested, but it was an important thing to do.
GALLAGHER: Yes.
Juan, President Biden is being forced to reimplement, of course, the remain
in Mexico policy by the courts. The DHS said this, quoting here, about
Secretary Mayorkas. The secretary recognizes that MPP likely contributed to
reduced migratory flows, but it did so by imposing substantial and
unjustifiable human cost on migrants who were exposed to harm while waiting
in Mexico.
So what he's saying is, yes, the remain in Mexico policy worked, but we
don't like it, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, yes. And picking up on what everyone is saying here, I
think it's important to note that this new policy that will be reinstated
this week, one, has to be approved by the Mexican government but, wo,
includes Covid protection for anyone coming in under the new rules.
But, you know, it's not an affirmation of what happened in the previous
administration with regard to separating families, you know, the mal-
treatment of children that's now ending up in the courts.
I think what we're seeing here is the Biden administration saying, we are
looking for strategies that work and we don't really have one at the
moment. And it calls to mind that no matter if you're President Bush,
President Obama, President Trump and now President Biden, you get no help
from the Congress, Trace .So it all comes down to the president having to
come up with executive action policies that are controversial and
temporary. We need Congress to get involved and really pass some effective,
you know, immigration legislation with regard to security on the border,
legal immigration and the dreamers.
GALLAGHER: Yes. And, Jackie, you know, you look down the road six months,
three months, and if this policy, remain in Mexico, works, as we've seen
that it has and as Secretary Mayorkas has already acknowledged it has, will
the Biden administration take credit? If the border's suddenly -- the
encounters slow to a trickle because of this remain in Mexico policy, do
you foresee the Biden administration saying, see, Kamala Harris is doing a
fantastic job?
ALEMANY: I'm not sure I can project whether or not the Biden administration
is going to take credit for this. But I think, at the moment, Joe Biden is
going to have to explain why he is, yet again, going back on some of his
campaign promises to undue the hardline immigration policies that we saw
with the Trump administration. And this is something that he campaigned on
and now you've seen this administration backtracking, saying that they want
this to happen.
Although I do have to note that our reporting shows that it's not likely to
imminently happen. The Mexican government said there are still various
conditions that they need to see from the U.S. government before the policy
can be implemented again. That includes providing more legal aid to some of
the migrants who are seeking asylum in the U.S., along with the Covid
protection that we've seen the -- the U.S. government already vow to
implement, which includes providing vaccinations for some of those migrants
while they go back to Mexico to wait for their asylum hearings.
GALLAGHER: Yes, though it is important to note that the vaccines can't be
mandated. The Supreme Court said that. And Mexico apparently is now kind of
warming up to the idea of maybe reinvigorating this remain in Mexico
policy, trying to get these people away.
Karl Rove, Jackie Alemany, Juan Williams, thank you all for coming on. And
we very much appreciate it.
ROVE: Thank you.
WILLIAMS: Good to be with you, Trace.
GALLAGHER: We will see you next Sunday.
Up next, our "Power Player of the Week." Chris, once again, dances with the
turkeys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GALLAGHER: Well, here's a holiday riddle we ask every Thanksgiving, who
founded a huge tech company, created a successful cosmetic business and now
raises turkeys like the Native Americans did?
Once again here's Chris Wallace with our "Power Player of the Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANDY LERNER, OWNER, AYRSHIRE FARM: Farm with the land. Farm with the
seasons. Know your soil. Know your rainfall. Know your -- know your
weather. Know your animals.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR (voice over): Sandy Lerner is talking about
sustainable farming, raising livestock and growing vegetables without the
chemicals that are so common in what she calls factory farming.
Just days before Thanksgiving, she took me out to see, and, yes, to dance,
with her 1,300 turkeys. Heritage breeds that trace back to the Indians.
LERNER: Come on, raise your arms, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble!
Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble!
WALLACE: Lerner is mistress of Ayrshire Farm, 800 acres in Upperville,
Virginia. But as interesting as her business is how she got here.
She grew up on a farm in California, making enough from raising cattle to
send herself to college.
LERNER: What I learned was to love work. I'm really happiest when I'm
engaged in -- in working and thinking and -- and striving.
WALLACE: She got into computers. In 1984, she and her then husband started
Cisco Systems that found a way to link networks of computers, the
foundation of the Internet.
But six years later, venture capital people were running Cisco.
WALLACE (on camera): How do you get fired from a company that you started?
LERNER: We just basically got taken to the cleaners. And part of that was,
if you don't have an employment contract. I got fired by the same guy who
fired Steve Jobs.
WALLACE (voice over): Lerner had a second act. She started a cosmetics
company called Urban Decay with edgy colors for women like her. And in
1996, she bought Ayrshire Farm.
LERNER: It's historically been people who had disposable income who made
strides in farming. Look at George Washington or look at Thomas Jefferson.
You're such a pretty girl because pretty is as pretty does.
WALLACE: She raises Shires, warhorses that go back centuries, Scotch
highland cattle, and those turkeys, which she says taste better because of
the lives they lead.
WALLACE (on camera): How much is an Ayrshire turkey cost as compared to
what I'd get in the grocery store?
LERNER: Well, our turkeys are expensive. They're between -- I think they're
running this year about $160 to $200.
WALLACE (voice over): At those prices there are questions about how to make
this kind of farming profitable. But while Lerner is determined to run a
sound business, it's not just about the bottom line. There's a 40 room
mansion on the farm.
WALLACE (on camera): What's it like living there?
LERNER: I don't know.
WALLACE: What do you mean?
LERNER: I live in a little log cabin and I love it.
WALLACE: Do you think you're a bit eccentric?
LERNER: I am now that I'm rich. I used to just be weird.
WALLACE (voice over): And so, just days before Thanksgiving, Sandy Lerner
and I danced with the turkeys. She grew up on a family farm and she wants
to see those values live on.
LERNER: I'm a cowgirl. I can tell what cows are thinking. It's very much my
success as a farmer, which is what George Washington was. He -- he wanted
to be a really good farmer. And I think I've -- I've been a -- I've become
a good farmer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER: And this year Sandy raised 300 turkeys, selling all but 25,
which they donated to frontline workers.
And that is it for today. Chris will be back next week, live from the
Reagan National Defense Forum at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley,
California. That is next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
Meantime, I'm Trace Gallagher. Have a great Thanksgiving weekend.
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