Biden pulling troops from Afghanistan with 'lack of planning': Rep. McCaul
Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, suggests the Biden administration is making critical foreign policy moves without any preparation
This is a rush transcript of "Fox News Sunday" on July 4, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Mike Emanuel, in for Chris Wallace.
Congress goes into the Fourth of July recess with plenty on its plate and
little time to get it done.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL (voice-over): Negotiations remain dicey for two major Biden agenda
items: the infrastructure deal and Democrats' multitrillion dollar social
programs package.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There won't be an
infrastructure bill unless we have a reconciliation bill.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: There was no agreement that
they would be linked.
EMANUEL: And the drawdown of U.S. forces continues in Afghanistan where
troops departed a once-pivotal base and questions are made about the fate
of Afghan translators who risked their lives helping the U.S.
This hour, we'll speak live with former House Homeland Security Chairman
Michael McCaul. It's a "FOX News Sunday" exclusive.
Then, the Biden administration misses its signature COVID goal of getting
70 percent of American adults at least one vaccine dose by today.
JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's accessible, it's
free, it's available.
EMANUEL: We'll talk with former CDC Director Tom Frieden about how to
boost the vaccination effort and fears of breakthrough cases.
Then, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy cranks up pressure on members
of his own party considering joining a Democrat-led investigation of the
January 6th riot.
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), MINORITY LEADER: I'm not threatening anybody
with committee assignments.
EMANUEL: We'll ask our Sunday panel whether Republicans will fall in line.
And our "Power Player of the Week," one of the world's best-selling fiction
authors on the nonfiction book he says may be his most important one yet.
All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL (on camera): And hello again on this Independence Day weekend from
FOX News in Washington.
We are halfway through 2021 and President Biden is anxious to put some
points up on the board, but a few critical victories remain elusive.
Infrastructure is far from a done deal, positive economic numbers are
tempered by slowing vaccination rates and security is tenuous at best in
Afghanistan as Mr. Biden's plan to remove U.S. forces ramps up.
In a moment, we'll speak with Republican Congressman Michael McCaul, the
leading Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
But, first, let's turn to Mark Meredith at the White House for the state of
play this holiday weekend -- Mark.
MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Mike, President Biden is going to
be hosting a big party for the White House tonight for the Fourth of July.
But on this holiday weekend, questions still linger about how he plans to
advance his agenda from keeping peace in Afghanistan to convincing more
Americans to get the vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
MEREDITH (voice-over): President Biden received a hero's welcome in
Michigan Saturday, but a day earlier, a different story, when the press
pummeled him with questions about Afghanistan.
BIDEN: I'm not going to answer any more questions on Afghanistan. We are
bringing our troops home. We have -- all across America, people are going
to ball games and doing good things.
MEREDITH: Critics fear a possible civil war in Afghanistan after U.S.
troops leave.
Closer to home, the June jobs report show employers added more jobs than
expected but the unemployment rate ticked up slightly to 5.9i percent.
The mixed data drawing mixed spin.
BRIAN DEESE, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: Obviously, a strong and
encouraging jobs report today, 850,000 jobs created last month.
REP. KEVIN BRADY (R-TX): So there are an awful lot of troubling red flags
in this report. I would not be taking a victory lap if I were them.
MEREDITH: And as many at the road for the Fourth, the CDC says 157 million
Americans are now fully vaccinated. It's a huge number, but still short of
Biden's goal to get 70 percent of all adults vaccinated by this weekend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MEREDITH (on camera): In the days ahead, President Biden is expected to be
back out on the road stuffing for his agenda, including trying to get
support for those two massive spending proposals that both faced an uphill
battle up on Capitol Hill -- Mike.
EMANUEL: Mark Meredith reporting from the White House -- Mark, thanks.
Joining me now, the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs
Committee, Congressman Michael McCaul of the great state of Texas.
Congressman, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks, Mike, and happy Independence Day to
you.
EMANUEL: Happy Independence Day.
On Afghanistan, President Biden taken some heat from an unlikely place,
"The Washington Post" editorial page, which expresses the concern al Qaeda
could reestablish bases in the country, waves of refugees are likely to
pour out and rivals such as Iran, China, and Russia could take from this
withdrawal that President Biden lacks the stomach to stand up for U.S.
allies.
Do you share those concerns?
MCCAUL: Yes, I do. You know, we just handed Bagram Air Base over to the
Afghans, which is a strategic asset in the region to protect us from
terrorists, it counters Russia, China, and Iran in the region. Now, that's
being turned over to the Afghans.
When you look at the IC assessment, that the intelligence community's
assessment, some reporting that within six months, the Taliban could
completely take over the country, including Bagram Air Base. It's quite
frightening and they have gone quite an offensive right now in the more
rural areas and they're poised to take provincial capitals.
Once our troops are finally out of there, it looks like within a month,
we'll be completely withdrawn.
My criticism -- my criticism, we can debate how long to stay there, but my
criticism is the lack of planning and preparation for this. If you -- if
you fail to plan, you plan to fail and I worry -- also when I met with
President Ghani last week, Mike, you know, they talked about -- his team,
about this is going to be the year of the jihad.
What do they mean by that? It means all the young males in Pakistan at the
madrassas are poised with the Taliban to pour over into Afghanistan and
you're going to see a major civil war take place. And I don't think at the
end of the day, it's going to look pretty. At the end of the day, I worry
about the embassy, first and foremost.
EMANUEL: Sure.
"Bloomberg" reported Friday, a plan is still in flux to expedite
immigration visas. You've emphasized the importance of moving quickly. Are
you satisfied? There's a plan to evacuate the thousands of Afghan
interpreters and their families who have risked their lives to help
Americans there.
MCCAUL: Well, look, we made a promised to them, and they served with our
special forces. These interpreters, we told them we'd take care of them and
we can't turn our backs and leave them to die. They will be slaughtered by
the Taliban. They're targeted by the Taliban. We have to get them out of
there. There are about 9,000 of them.
And I've been really pleading with the administration to come up with a
plan. They just haven't prepared for this at all.
The last I've heard, I think, finally, we've gotten some -- some attention
and Kazakhstan looks a possible place to do this.
And in terms of ISR, the intelligence surveillance reconnaissance
capability, Uzbekistan is looking like a better place to do this. But you
know, we are going dark in Afghanistan and there's going to be consequences
long-term to this. And at the end of the day, Mike, when we fully withdraw,
the devastation and the killings and women, humanitarian crisis, fleeing
across the border into Pakistan, President Biden is going to own these ugly
images.
EMANUEL: Earlier this year, you said it was important not to repeat past
mistakes of 100 percent pull out like in Iraq. To leave a residual force,
top Pentagon officials and even the president's own secretary of state
advised the president not to pull out completely but to leave a few
thousand American personnel, something Mr. Biden campaigned on.
Why is he doing this?
MCCAUL: I think it's political. It's just all boils down to politics.
If you talk to anybody in the national security realm or in the Defense
Department, you know, they -- you mentioned Secretary Austin, the head of
the DOD, nobody thought this was a good idea. A residual force of 2,500
troops is not a whole lot of a footprint compared to where we have troops
elsewhere to provide stability in the region. And I'm concerned with this
complete decision to pull out that it's not going to have a good ending to
it.
And, yeah, I look at the embassy itself. We're going to have 600 people,
DOD and other personnel. You know, I'm from Texas. The Alamo, and we had
250 Texans, 5,000 Mexicans, didn't end up so well there. I think the odds
are worse in Afghanistan.
EMANUEL: Do you worry the United States will be forced to send troops back
into Afghanistan, similar to what was done after leaving Iraq 10 years ago?
MCCAUL: All the top experts I talk to, that's the greatest fear, is he may
be doing this for political purposes. But at some point, our vital
interests are ISIS and al Qaeda, and we are going to give them a safe haven
as the Taliban takes over that nation and that vacuum is going to be filled
by terrorists. And I'm concerned that we will be going back.
EMANUEL: To COVID origins in China, what's your level of confidence that
the U.S. intelligence community will get to the facts in terms of the
origins of COVID-19?
MCCAUL: Well, the Chinese Communist Party will not open up the lab to this
investigation, but we are getting information from other sources and I
believe there's a high degree probability now that it came from that lab
for a number of reasons. You know, one is the cover up that took place, I
call it the greatest human -- greatest cover-up in human history.
And you don't cover-up something if you're not trying to hide something.
You know, they deleted all their databases with respect to the virus at the
Wuhan Institute of Virology. The POA (ph) came in in 2019 and took over the
lab, the head of the Kim (ph) bio warfare program.
That doesn't happen unless something happened, you know, at that lab. So I
think -- you know, I wish the Democrats would join with us on this very
important investigations and what caused this problem. You know, they are
really -- it's a dangerous game to do gain of research -- function
research, and genetically manipulate viruses to make them more infectious.
They're really playing with fire and that fire really lit up the world and
burned it.
And I think we need to get to the truth of the matter and the fact is State
Department was warning about their safety protocols and many of the
research workers were actually hospitalized with flu-like symptoms
consistent with COVID. And finally, the world military games that took
place in October, 9,000 militaries personnel came in all over the world to
participate in many of them left with COVID-like symptoms.
I think that was the first super-spreader, if you will, that began.
EMANUEL: On immigration, a critical issue to your home state of Texas,
some critics suggest your Governor Greg Abbott would do better spending
funds on upgrading the electrical grid over using $250 million on
restarting the border wall.
How do you respond?
MCCAUL: Well, this was a self-inflicted wound and a foreign policy
blunder. The president with one stroke of a pen on inaugural day rescinded
the "remain in Mexico" agreements, the asylum cooperation agreements with
Central America. The Trump administration got this one right.
And to undo that with the stroke of the pen, really not knowing what he was
doing other than the fact that Trump's name was on it caused significant
damage.
When I talked to Border Patrol, there's a direct cause and effect between
these foreign policy decisions and what we are seeing now at the border --
according to the secretary of homeland, the worst in 21 years. And it's
really sad to see these young children down there at the detention facility
interiors not knowing where there are without their parents.
It's caused a humanitarian crisis. It's going to cause a human trafficking
crisis. And for those little girls, a sex trafficking crisis.
And again, the Biden administration is going to own this and I don't know
how they can fix it because they're not willing to go back to these
policies and it's very, very sad.
EMANUEL: During the Trump administration you said a physical barrier
wasn't the panacea to solving the problem and you and your Democratic
counterpart Eliot Engel were critical when the Trump administration
temporarily cut off funding to Central American countries.
What is the Biden administration getting right in focusing on these other
factors related to illegal migration?
MCCAUL: Well, I do think, you know, infrastructure or the wall plays a big
part in the security at the border. We have to -- it's manpower,
technology, and infrastructure, that would be the wall.
When you get to the root cause of the problem, this is where we need to do
a better job working with Central America. When I talked to the ambassador
from Guatemala, he said, I don't want -- we're losing a generation of my
children. What I need now is not aid, but trade.
And what we need to do is work with State Department, Development Finance
Corporation to get private investment down in Central America, because as
long as the conditions are so bad down there, the families are willing to
pay lifesavings to hand their children over to a trafficker.
You know, I was a federal prosecutor, chair of homeland security, the
traffickers are vicious and they exploit these children, they separate them
from the families and they really don't care about these children. And they
bring them over, dump them off across the river, create a diversion and
then the drugs come in in another sector with fentanyl and all sorts of
dangerous things that are killing Americans as I speak in the United
States.
EMANUEL: Okay, to infrastructure. Does Speaker Pelosi's insistence on
pairing the bipartisan infrastructure agreement with the broader
multitrillion dollar package damage the chances of getting Republicans to
vote yes on infrastructure? And if Republicans ultimately vote against
infrastructure, what's the political risk -- risk of rejecting a bunch of
pretty popular investments?
MCCAUL: Well, I think infrastructure is popular, and I think it is
bipartisan. And I think, you know -- I know the Senate working with the
president is trying to work out a bipartisan agreement. That's our best
chance for success here. I think with the House, Pelosi put forward was a
totally partisan measure. You know, one out of every $2 went to the Green
New Deal, totally unacceptable to Republicans.
You know, if you're really serious about this, look at traditional
infrastructure, and that is roads, bridges, rural broadband, which is so
important to the country right now and not muck it up with things that have
nothing to do with infrastructure.
I worry that they're going to expand health care and education, have
nothing to do with infrastructure, and then Bernie Sanders will use a
reconciliation process to basically open up to a massive tax increase. And
this is a Trojan horse syndrome that I think we're most worried about.
EMANUEL: Congressman McCaul, thank you for joining us today. I hope you
and your family enjoy your Fourth of July.
Up next, the Trump Organization's CFO facing criminal charges over what
prosecutors say was a years-long tax scheme. We'll bring in our Sunday
group to discuss whether the former president himself could face legal
trouble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: They leave Democrats alone no matter how
bad they are, but they mobilize every power of government to come after me,
my family, my wonderful employees, and my company solely because of
politics. They want do things to hurt us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: President Trump last night proclaiming new charges against the
Trump Organization's CFO essentially the next witch hunt.
And it's time now for our Sunday group. Charlie Hurt of "The Washington
Times", Catherine Lucey who covers the White House for "The Wall Street
Journal", and FOX News political analyst Juan Williams.
Panelists, welcome.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to be with you, Mike.
EMANUEL: Juan, former President Trump is back. Is he still connecting with
his base at his famous rallies?
WILLIAMS: I think so, Mike. I think the president uses these rallies to
remind people that he is the dominant figure in the Republican Party.
Now, remember, he has no Twitter, he has no Facebook, he's not on TV very
much. He has no White House pulpit or staff to help him. So I think this is
an opportunity to really say he's still in the game to the base.
He uses it to attack people who have, you know, opposed him politically,
including Republicans, and, you know, endorsed primary opponents, the
people who have challenged him and he goes after the Republican leadership
in Congress pretty frequently as well.
The big issue for him is he doesn't have a political agenda at the moment.
There is no sense of priorities or plans. So it's a little bit like a
rerun. You know, it's like a cast reunion at the state fair ground, and
it's very entertaining and he still draws a crowd, no question.
EMANUEL: Charlie, how do you see President Trump's impact or influence as
we approach the six-month mark of him leaving office?
CHARLIE HURT, THE WASHINGTON TIMES: Well, I think it remains huge, and I
agree with Juan, Donald Trump is still very much the biggest person in his
party, no matter how much establishment Republicans, Democrats and people
in Washington would like to twinkle their nose and just make him go away,
he's not going away. He still is a firm grasp. You had tens of thousands of
people show up, they withstood scorching heat, unbelievably rains last
night in Sarasota to attend that rally and they were -- were not
disappointed. It was a great Trump rally.
I do disagree though that he doesn't have an agenda. He has very much an
agenda. His America First agenda talking about immigration and jobs and
things like that are -- is at the very center of his platform.
And I would argue that in the six months that Joe Biden has been in the
White House, those issues have only become more pointed and his message --
his America first message, Donald Trump's America first message has become
only more sellable and more popular in the six months that Joe Biden has
been kind of goofing things up.
EMANUEL: Catherine, this appearance comes after a grand jury returned a
15-count indictment against the Trump Organization and Alan Weisselberg,
his chief financial officer.
How do you assess those legal issues and their impact on the former
president's political future?
CATHERINE LUCEY, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, this is the real question,
isn't it, Mike? I mean, these are serious charges against the organization,
against Weisselberg but the real thing to think about is what comes next
and that's kind of what we're looking for, right? And so, are there going
to be more charges? This investigation is ongoing.
One key thing that a lot of experts point to is whether, you know, Mr.
Weisselberg might testify against the former president.
EMANUEL: Right.
LUCEY: And so far, he's giving no indication that he will do that but
certainly the threat of prison time is at play now. So I think those of the
things that we have to think about going forward.
But even for now, this certainly casts a shadow over Trump as he -- you
know, as he moves forward and really tries to with these rallies -- we saw
him in Florida last night and Ohio during the week, he's really trying to
start up his political organization again, you know, increased profile, do
a lot more heading into the midterms and potentially beyond.
EMANUEL: Okay, to infrastructure. Juan, there's a bipartisan agreement
between Present Biden and some bipartisan senators. Is it in jeopardy
because progressives are demanding that it be tied to a multitrillion
dollar spending package?
WILLIAMS: No, I don't think so. I mean, you know, the real problem here
was whether or not as President Biden said was a slip of the tongue that he
wouldn't sign one without the other and then he had to walk that back,
Mike, as you well remember.
EMANUEL: Uh-huh.
WILLIAMS: But I think that Pelosi -- it's hard to argue with Pelosi's
statement or her political strategy because the polls show that Americans
do support the -- you know, the kind of human infrastructure part, you
know, increasing funding for care for children, for people to stay home and
take care of kids or have day care, having care for the elderly, more
education and job training programs.
Across party lines, these are popular programs and within the Democratic
Party overwhelmingly so. The only question is whether or not you can get
that through the Senate and it appears right now that the Senate in terms
of doing it basically with all Democratic votes as reconciliation is
possible. But right now as strategy for Pelosi, I don't think there's any
doubt that she is pursuing a politically-popular path not only within her
party but within this country.
EMANUEL: Charlie, is infrastructure now in trouble because there's a lack
of trust about this deal?
HURT: Oh, I think without a doubt, but I also think -- one of the things
that always happens in Washington is Democrats and Republicans always come
together to spend other people's money that they don't really have. So I
suspect -- I do suspect that at the end of the day, some sort of deal will
come through.
But clearly, Nancy Pelosi, and as you pointed out, and, Juan, you pointed
out, Joe Biden earlier made -- has made clear that they are holding the
infrastructure package hostage in order to get even more spending through
reconciliation.
And the problem there is at some point, and we're already seeing lots of
evidence of this throughout the economy, at some point if you print -- the
government keeps printing so much money, so make trillions of dollars and
spends so many trillions of dollars that we don't have on whatever it is
you're spending it on, that is going to drive -- be the major driver for
inflation.
And when people around the country -- they may not be talking about so much
infrastructure and the things I think Juan is right about, you know, they
are generally popular, but when you -- when you go to the grocery store
today or you go to the gas station today and you see these prices are
skyrocketing, home prices skyrocketing -- those are the kinds of things
that have a massive, massive effect on an election in the future.
And so, I think -- I think that -- everybody is kind of trying to talk
about this area that is generally popular, but the -- but, man, the
hangover from it is going to be I think devastating and it's going to be
really devastating for Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden and Democrats if they
continue on this path.
EMANUEL: Catherine, the House voted to authorize a January 6th commission
to look into the attacks. Is there danger for Republicans of this extending
into next year and hurting their chances in the midterms?
LUCEY: Well, certainly, this is a concern for some Republicans, right,
Mike? I mean, they obviously, you know, would like to look forward. That's
a lot of Republicans and Republican leaders who talk about how they would
like to really focus on a message countering Biden, countering Democrats. I
mean, some of the things we were talking about with inflation for example,
the economic arguments they'd like to make.
And the existence of this commission means that this conversation and this
investigation will continue, that the talk about this will continue into
next year, you know, potentially with new information and new revelations
about what happened that day, and that, potentially, is not helpful for
some Republicans running in some of these tougher districts.
EMANUEL: Juan, how awkward is this likely to be for GOP Leader Kevin
McCarthy, who could get called to testify about his conversations with
President Trump that day?
WILLIAMS: I think that is awkward, Mike. I don't think there's any getting
away from it. I think -- you know, I think the problem here is that for
Republicans, including Kevin McCarthy, is they treat this as political. And
I think, you know, what happened on January 6th, and attempt at
insurrection against the United States government is pretty horrific.
And I don't understand why Republicans won't just come forth, say, we'll
cooperate, we're going to wash our hands of it, we're going to try to make
sure that everyone understands that we're not opposed to the United States
government or certification of a presidential election.
I don't understand it, but that goes on. I mean, if you think back to
commissions we had on 9/11, you think back to Benghazi, they lasted for
months if not years.
EMANUEL: Right.
WILLIAMS: So the idea that this commission looking into this issue would
somehow be opposed by legitimate leaders like speaker -- Kevin McCarthy --
he hopes to be speaker -- I don't understand. I think it's a very
unappealing, unattractive look for the party.
EMANUEL: Panel, we have to take a break here. You're off to a great start.
Up next, as the COVID delta variant continues to spread, my next guest says
those who are unvaccinated are in the line of fire and he has ideas on how
to reach them. Former CDC Director Tom Frieden joins us, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: Coming up, the Supreme Court wraps up its term with some major
rulings as court watchers look for hints of any movement on the bench.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We will leave it to any justice to
determine the timeline of their retirement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: We'll ask our panel about the pressure on one specific justice to
make room for a Biden appointee, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: Millions of Americans are hitting the road this Independence Day
weekend. The Biden administration had hoped to mark the holiday by getting
70 percent of American adults at least partially vaccinated, but they fell
short of that goal.
Joining me now, former CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden.
Dr. Frieden, welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: Great to speak with you.
EMANUEL: Biden administration officials are taking something of a victory
lap this weekend, attending baseball games, parades, and festivals across
the country. The message is, it is safe for Americans to resume in-person
social gatherings.
Does the science suggest it is time to get back to normal life?
FRIEDEN: Well, the bottom line here is that vaccination is our best route
to freedom and independence. And if you look around the U.S., Mike, what
you see is in states that have most people vaccinated, 70 percent have --
at least 20 states have reached that -- very low rates of COVID and
decreasing.
In contrast, in the states where we have lower vaccination rates, many of
them have much higher rates, 5, 10, 20 times higher rates and those lower
states and those rates are increasing because of the delta variant, which
is much more infectious. We don't yet know whether it's more deadly case
per case, but we do have good evidence that our vaccines work to protect us
against delta.
So you want to be free, independent, enjoy this and future holidays? Get
vaccinated.
EMANUEL: The World Health Organization and Los Angeles County are among
those recommending that even fully vaccinated people should continue
wearing masks indoors in public as a precaution. The CDC says its guidance
has not changed and fully vaccinated people do not need to wear masks.
So, which is it?
FRIEDEN: Well, bottom-line, the vaccines that we're using in this country
are markedly effective. So if you've been vaccinated, you are very well
protected. Not 100 percent, but very well protected against the virus. If
you're not vaccinated, you need to continue to mask up indoors and think
seriously about getting vaccinated soon so that you can do more things more
safely and that you're not a risk to other people.
One of the things that's so striking here is that this isn't a question of
Democrat or Republican, this is a question of science and humanity. This is
a huge triumph. The vaccines were developed under the Trump administration.
They were then rolled out largely in the current administration. They're a
victory not for Democrats or Republicans, they're a victory for people over
the virus. And the more of us who get vaccinated, the more we can do.
In terms of masks, if you're immunocompromised or you're in a very crowded
place with very poor ventilation, that's something you'll have to consider
individually. But, generally, these vaccines are remarkably safe and
remarkably effective.
EMANUEL: There's talk by some officials of wearing masks indoors even when
fully vaccinated hurt the campaign to get Americans vaccinated and how do
we reach people who are vaccine-hesitant?
FRIEDEN: I think there are certain people who are really dug in. And, for
them, it's just going to require some time. But most of the people who
haven't yet been vaccinated are open to the idea. They have understandable
questions. Some think that the vaccines were rushed. That's really not the
case. This is 20 years of scientific research. Some distrust the vaccines.
For them, sometimes it's helpful to explain that virtually every doctor
who's been offered this vaccine has gotten it as soon as they can. I have.
My family has. My kids have. This vaccine is safe and effective at our best
route to being able to do more things without worrying about infecting
other people or ourselves or bringing home an infection that could result
in a lethal illness in a loved one.
EMANUEL: Bottom line on masks, wearing a mask is a smart practice even
after COVID is gone?
FRIEDEN: Well, it depends on a few things, who you are, what you're doing,
and where you are. If you are vaccinated and your immune system is normal,
then you need to follow the regulations for where you are. If you're on a
plane or a bus and they require it, you need to wear it. But, in most
places, you really don't.
In contrast, if you haven't been vaccinated, you need to wear a mask. If
you have been vaccinated but your immune system is weak or you're very
close to someone in the household of someone with a weak immune system,
then you may want to think carefully about it.
What is very clear is that if you've been vaccinated, you're way less
likely to get severely ill, you're way less likely to spread the illness
even if you get infected, and you're almost complete protected against
death from the virus. About 99 percent of the 200 or so Americans who
continue to die every day from this virus have not yet been vaccinated.
Vaccination is our route to freedom.
EMANUEL: Then there's the question of how long the vaccines will be
effective. There's talk of getting booster shots. When will experts have a
handle on how frequently, or if, boosters will be needed?
FRIEDEN: Mike, I really feel what we have to do is level with the American
public. And the fact is, we do not know. It's possible we'll need booster
shots periodically. It's possible this vaccine, especially the -- well, all
of the vaccines approved in this country may last for three years, five
years, ten years, lifetime. We don't know. We are studying this. And
because the vaccines are just recently developed and applied, it will be
sometime before we see, are people getting breakthrough infections? Who are
those people? Should some people get a vaccine booster and not others after
one year or two years or five years? If there are more changes in the virus
after delta, other even more dangerous variants, maybe we'll need to tweak
the vaccine. That's possible, but right now this full dose series, two
doses of the mRNA vaccines, or one dose of the J&J vaccine is highly
protective with no evidence yet that anyone needs a booster at this point.
As the science change, we will change our assessment and our
recommendations based on an objective look at the data.
EMANUEL: OK, so we'll see where the research goes.
The Biden administration did not achieve its goal of having at least 70
percent of American adults receive at least one vaccine dose by today. Is
it fair to say vaccination in this country has stalled?
FRIEDEN: I don't think vaccination has stalled but it has certainly slowed.
And because of that, we need to do more to reach people who have questions.
There're valid questions. You have to answer those questions, address the
concerns, find the messages and the messengers that make a difference.
My group resolved to save lives, did some research in the U.S. earlier this
week that we released, and we found that when you just showed people the
real life stories of the thousands, tens of thousands of people suffering
from long COVID, with brain fog, shortness of breath, difficulty
concentrating, difficulty doing the things that they used to love to do,
they realize that it's not just about severe hospitalization and death, but
long COVID that can be really debilitating for young, healthy people.
So whatever the message is, the fact is vaccines are safe, they're
effective. Virtually every doctor who has been offered them has taken them.
And the more of us who get vaccinated, the safer we'll all be and the more
we can do without worrying about the virus. We want it to be behind us. But
until we get more Americans vaccinated, we're still going to be struggling
with outbreaks and clusters and disruptions to the activities that we enjoy
doing.
EMANUEL: So what are the dangers of potentially having two Americas,
largely vaccinated communities, and pockets of the U.S. south in particular
where there are low vaccination rates?
FRIEDEN: As we go into kind of a two track world where parts of America
have put the pandemic behind us and other parts are still struggling with
it, we have a couple of things, the risk of continued illness and death and
economic disruption and also the risk that there will be even more
dangerous variances that emerge. Variants that might be able to get around
the vaccine-induced immunity and require us to have more shots.
Now, we don't know if that will happen, but it's certainly a risk. Anywhere
in the world there's uncontrolled spread of COVID, there's the possibility
of new variances emerging. We've already seen remarkable kind of innovation
by the virus as new strains of the virus have gotten much more infectious
than the strains we were dealing with before. So far our vaccines work
extremely well against every variant its thrown at us, but we don't know if
that's going to continue to be the case. And the more we can tamp down
spread, the better off and the safer we'll all be.
EMANUEL: Dr. Frieden, thank you so much for your time. Very interesting
perspective on this critical issue facing our country. Thank you for your
time. Have a wonderful Fourth of July.
Up next, we'll bring back our Sunday group on the latest jobs report and
where we are in the economic recovery from COVID.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Instead of workers competing
with each other for jobs that are scarce, employers are competing with each
other to attract workers. More jobs, better wages, that's a good
combination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: President Biden takes a victory lap after a strong jobs report,
but he still faces an uphill battle, encouraging skeptical Americans to get
vaccinated.
And we're back now with the panel.
So President Biden reacting to Friday's jobs report of 850,000 jobs created
in June and wages rising.
Catherine, what's the state of the economic recovery?
CATHERINE LUCEY, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, you saw the president
there really, as you said, Mike, celebrating. You know, the White House is
encouraged by what they're seeing. This was the strongest jobs report in
sometime. You know, stocks rose after this report. They are really making
the argument that the, you know, economy is reopening, people are coming
back, people are coming back to work, that this is -- these are all signs
of progress.
But, of course, you're also right that, you know, there are still warning
signs and things to be concerned about. So, you know, that includes the
includes the fact that it is -- workers are still slowly coming back to
work and, you know, was mentioned in the previous panel, inflation is a
concern for a lot of people as, you know, Americans, you know, this week
see higher prices at the grocery store or the gas pump.
And then, of course, you have the fact that the vaccination campaign is
still continuing. It has slowed. And there are pockets of the country where
the vaccination rate is lower. And so there are also concerns that, you
know, the recovery could be uneven if places become hot spots.
So it is -- you know, like I said, the White House is really trying to, you
know, signal progress and enthusiasm. You saw the president out in Michigan
yesterday, you know, sort of touting that they're back. They're doing a big
event at the White House today. You know, a thousand people coming in to
have a sort of a Fourth of July barbecue. They're really trying to signal
that America's back, but they also are signaling that there is work to do
and vaccinations.
EMANUEL: A significant part of that economic growth coming from travel,
eating out at restaurants and entertainment.
Juan, how do you see the economy right now?
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I mean, just on the
hard facts, I think what Catherine said is right. I mean you look at it,
you know, the hiring is up, wages are up. I think the White House was
putting out last week that 3 million jobs have been created since Biden
took office, which is a record for any president. But, obviously, that
comes after the tremendous economic slowdown that attached itself to the
COVID pandemic.
Nonetheless, when you see wages rising, that's really good news. And I
think that it's not only that. But, again, as Catherine mentioned, the
stock market. The stock market's been consistently high. The negative, of
course, is everyone's concerned about inflation. But right now you have the
Congressional Budget Office saying, you know, that's a transitory effect
again of coming out of COVID with supply chain delays and problems. And
when it comes -- again, CBO says -- to the GDP, this is incredible, Mike,
but they are now predicting 7.4 percent rate of growth this year for the
United States. That would be like a 40 year record. We haven't seen that
kind of growth.
So it has the feel, I think, for lots of people at the White House, like a,
you know, going back to Reagan's language, you know, morning in America, in
terms of this economy about to blossom.
EMANUEL: Lots of small businesses complaining about getting people to
actually go to work. How do you read the latest economic numbers, Charlie?
CHARLES HURT, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": Yes, well, of course, rising wages is
always a good -- it always good news, but it depends on why those wages are
going up. If it's because of inflation as opposed to a booming economy,
then you have a real problem, a pretty scary problem, in fact, if those
rising wages are entirely because of inflation. And when you have the
federal government literally punishing people for working and rewarding
people for not working, that's how you get the sort of -- this sort of
dangerous atmosphere where you wind up with rising wages because of
inflation.
And I really do think that it -- that, you know, you know, come election
time, you know, Wall Street can be booming, the -- you know, all kinds of -
- you can look at all kinds of numbers that look good to economists or to
really wealthy people on Wall Street, but if -- if people are paying
massively more at the gas pump and massively more to feed their families at
the grocery store, then that -- that tends to be far more damaging than any
good that comes from somebody's stock portfolio.
EMANUEL: Part of that reopening economic boost related to rising COVID-19
vaccination rates, which appear to be slowing down now, is there cause for
concern there, Catherine?
LUCEY: Well, as you were discussing with a previous guest, Mike, yes, the
vaccination rates have slowed down. The White House been aggressively, you
know, trying to encourage people to get vaccinated. You've seen the
president out, the first lady, the vice president, her husband, they are
really trying to push -- you know, push people to get vaccinated.
But the concern is, obviously, that this is -- that this could create hot
spots, this could create areas with lower vaccination rates that could --
that the cases could flare up again and that that could really slow the
economic recovery. So you're really hearing sort of dueling messages from
the White House right now. They're telling people, you know, America's
reopening, people can go to ballparks, they can, you know, go shop, they
can go to their favorite restaurants, but to do these things they really
need to get vaccinated.
EMANUEL: Charlie, there's clearly a lot of COVID fatigue and mask fatigue
in this country. How do the president and medical leaders convince people
to keep getting vaccinated?
HURT: Well, I think the answer right now is the same answer all along, and
that is through information and educating people about -- and openly
answering questions, questions that are uncomfortable. Unfortunately, you
know, from the beginning of this, the entire thing, especially vaccines,
have been politicized. You know, just a year ago, you had now Vice
President Kamala Harris out there as an anti-vector trying to poo-poo the
idea of getting vaccines because President Trump was the -- truthfully, the
only politician out there pressing for these vaccines.
So, in that sort of environment, where people feel like all of this has
been politicized, and you get in so much trouble, you get shouted down for
asking legitimate questions about the vaccine, that is a horrible
atmosphere in which to try to promote truthful information about the help
of a vaccine.
EMANUEL: Catherine, the Supreme Court wrapped its term. A great deal of
attention on the 6-3 ruling in favor of Republican-backed voting
restrictions in the state of Arizona. What's the impact?
LUCEY: A couple things here, Mike. I mean, one, obviously, this is a real
example of the, you know, the new conservative majority on the court, you
know, which was cemented last year with, you know, Justice Amy Coney
Barrett being added to the court. So we're really seeing the impact of that
block.
But also it sends a message. You know, Democrats and voting rights groups
are saying, this really sends a message to states, to Republican-led states
that are pushing for more voting restrictions, you know, that they -- that
it might embolden them. That it shows that they have support in the courts.
EMANUEL: Juan, Justin Stephen Breyer is 82 years of age. Does not appear to
be going anywhere. Is it appropriate for Democrats and activists to call on
him to retire?
WILLIAMS: Well, I just ask everyone to remember that Ruth Bader Ginsburg
was, I think, 87, Thurgood Marshall, 84. Both replaced by Republican
nominees, conservatives on the court, and now we have a 6-3 conservative
majority. And so from the Democrats' point of view, you know, it's not
about hurting Justice Breyer's feelings. Justice Breyer is a legend. He's
had an amazing career on the court. But it's simply saying that, you know,
right now you don't want the court to go to 7-2 conservative.
You know, Mitch McConnell, the former Senate majority leader, now the
Senate minority leader, says that -- says that what he has promised us that
if the Republicans regain the majority, he will not allow a Biden nominee
to have a hearing. Well, that's unbelievable. You know, I mean he blocked
Merrick Garland, an Obama nominee, for nearly a year and now he's saying
he's going to, you know, pursue the same strategy. So Democrats are in a
dither here. Like Justice Breyer realized the political, polarized reality
of the moment.
EMANUEL: Charlie, we're up against the clock, but a brief thought on
Democrats pushing for Justice Breyer to go?
HURT: Yes, I think -- first, I think Juan summed it up perfectly why
they're trying to do it. But I do think it's important to point out that
these supposed restrictions on voting in Arizona were designed to keep
people from voting where they're not registered to vote and a ban on ballot
harvesting. How that is a voting restriction as opposed to protecting
elections just baffles me.
EMANUEL: OK. OK, thanks, panel. See you next Sunday.
HURT: Thank you.
EMANUEL: Up next, our "Power Player of the Week," bestselling author James
Patterson on his publishing empire and the book he says may be his most
important.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: He is the bestselling author of the past decade, known for
creating larger-than-life heroes. But as we first told you this spring,
he's out with a new book about real-life heroes.
Here again is our "Power Player of the Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMES PATTERSON, BEST-SELLING AUTHOR: I love to tell stories, and I want to
know what's going to happen at the end.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR (voice over): Author James Patterson tells
lots of stories. Three hundred and fourteen books, 241 best sellers, over
400 million copies sold.
Loyal fans buy so many. Their hash tag is patterstack.
WALLACE (on camera): What's the secret to a best-selling book?
PATTERSON: Oh, I -- you know, characters and interesting situations.
I'm James Patterson. Welcome to "The Inn."
Read about it in "The 18th Abduction."
WALLACE: There does seem to be a bit of a James Patterson formula, bite
size chapters and a plot that -- that races like the dickens.
PATTERSON: Yes, for sure. I think it's a good way. I think it fits the
modern world.
WALLACE (voice over): Patterson's signature character, Detective Alex
Cross, is a publishing franchise, adapted into hit films.
But his latest book, "Walk in my Combat Boots," written with Retired Army
Sergeant Matt Eversmann, is a non-fiction page-turner.
PATTERSON: These are the people on the ground. This is their stories.
WALLACE (on camera): Why was that important to tell, and particularly why
to tell now?
PATTERSON: If you've been in the military, if you've been in combat that
you'd say, these people -- these guys got it right. And if you haven't,
you'll understand, maybe for the first time in your life, what it means to
serve, what it means to put your life on the line for somebody else.
WALLACE (voice over): His favorite story is about twins, Jason and Kevin
Droddy, who both served as Army Rangers in Iraq.
PATTERSON: One of them would go through a hair-raising experience, and --
and all he would think about is, I hope my twin is OK. And Jason would
always say over and over again, Kevin and I are going to go home. We're
going to get home. And they did get home.
WALLACE: Patterson runs his own story-telling army.
PATTERSON: I have some co-writers. What I do is I will write a 50 or 60
page outline for everything. There was one year, two years ago, where I had
-- I wrote I think it was 2,700 pages of outlines, which is crazy.
WALLACE (on camera): Do you ever get writer's block?
PATTERSON: No. No. I -- what is that? I've heard about that, but I don't --
no. Obviously not. Some of my competitors wish that I would get writer's
block.
WALLACE (voice over): No writer's bock, but he still finds mystery in the
process.
PATTERSON: I never know for sure how it's going to turn out.
WALLACE (on camera): When you write a book, you don't know what the ending
is going to be?
PATTERSON: Frequently, I don't know the ending, because I get to it and I
go, it needs more.
WALLACE: You've got to have a sense that, OK, that -- that is coherent with
where he took me along the trip.
PATTERSON: Or it's, you're hooked, you're hooked, you're hooked, you have
to -- and it's aliens. You go, what? No, not aliens. You can't do that,
you copout. You -- that's awful.
WALLACE: Maybe the butler, but not the aliens.
PATTERSON: I haven't done the butler yet, but I -- I'd like to do that.
That would be humorous.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL: And you can learn more about "Walk in My Combat Boots" in a
special co-hosted by Patterson, available now in Fox Nation.
And that's it for today. Have a great Independence Day holiday. God bless
America. And we'll see you next Fox News Sunday.
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