'Fox News Sunday' on August 21, 2022

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Sec. Granholm defends 'significant' green energy incentives in Inflation Reduction Act

Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm discusses green energy provisions outlined in Democrats' controversial Inflation Reduction Act, gas prices, and tax credits for electric vehicles.

This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on August 21, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Trace Gallagher.

President Biden aims to put his climate bill victory front and center against headwinds on multiple fronts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It's now law!

(CHEERS)

GALLAGHER (voice-over): The White House celebrates as the Inflation Reduction Act becomes law.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The promise to America is real and just beginning.

GALLAGHER: The president planning to travel the U.S. soon to sell the bill to voters. This as governors across the country prepare for back to school season facing a teacher shortage, and more changes to CDC guidance as the agency gets candid about its struggle to manage the COVID-19 pandemic.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We didn't reliably meet expectations along the way.

GALLAGHER: We'll ask New Hampshire's Governor Chris Sununu about the CDC's plan to reorganize and state of play in his state's Republican Senate primary.

And we'll also ask Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm when Americans will start feeling relief from the president's Inflation Reduction Act.

Governor Sununu and Secretary Granholm, only on "FOX News Sunday".

Then, a divided country awaits new details about the justification for the FBI's search of Mar-a-Lago. We'll ask our Sunday panel about the former president's legal strategy, the leaks and the heated rhetoric around the FBI.

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: We can hold the attorney general accountable for the decision that he made without attacking rank and file law enforcement personnel.

GALLAGHER: Plus, we'll dive into FOX News polls on what's top of mind for voters in critical states as Republicans aim to take control of the Senate.

All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GALLAGHER (on camera): And hello again from FOX News.

The fall midterms are fewer than three months out and the White House is hoping its big climate and tax bill will ease voters' doubts about Democrats. But the administration is still battling high inflation and low approval numbers, and now this week, Biden's CDC director is admitting the agency came up short in its handling of the pandemic. And Biden's education secretary is sounding the alarm, as teachers quit in droves.

In a moment, we will speak with New Hampshire's Governor Chris Sununu about the CDC fallout and about how states should handle the teacher shortage.

But we begin with team coverage. Mark Meredith in West Palm Beach, Florida, with the latest on the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago.

But, first, Peter Doocy traveling with the president in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware -- Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Trace, President Biden's summer has been pretty eventful. He signed enough big bills into law that his chief of staff is comparing him to Kennedy and Roosevelt and LBJ. His approval rating is still hovering in the low 40s, but it's improving slightly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people won and the special interest lost.

Okay.

DOOCY (voice-over): The Inflation Reduction Act, now the law of the land. But actual inflation reduction isn't happening anytime soon.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Why would it? Well, immediately, it's not. We never see anything happening immediately. Like today, turn the switch on and off.

DOOCY: The bill is really about other priorities.

BIDEN: This bill is the biggest step forward on climate ever, ever.

DOOCY: The CDC is taking a step back, admitting they were unprepared for COVID.

WALENSKY: It might have been little bit messy along the way.

DOOCY: Still, no regrets about lockdowns and mask mandates, just regrets about how they were explained.

WALENSKY: We need to be more nimble but we stand behind the content of what we said.

DOOCY: A looming problem this back to school season. A shortage of teachers.

MIGUEL CARDONA, EDUCATION SECRETARY: This time of year, when we're welcoming back millions of students and educators and parents are excited, you know, this is going to be a year full of promise and possibilities, we are dealing with a shortage issue.

DOOCY: No shortage of optimism at the White House, though, as the president relished his recent wins and sees new reason for hope ahead of November's midterms.

BIDEN: I know there are those who hold a dark and despairing view of this country. I'm not one of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOOCY (on camera): There may be another big announcement on the way. President Biden says a decision about forgiving student loan debt will happen by August 31st. That is a week from Wednesday -- Trace.

GALLAGHER: Peter Doocy reporting from Rehoboth Beach -- Peter, thank you.

Now let's turn to Mark Meredith. He's in Palm Beach, Florida, for the latest on the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago -- Mark.

MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Trace, former President Trump said soon his legal team is going to be filing a motion challenging the legality of the search here at Mar-a-Lago. This comes as we're also waiting to see what federal prosecutors may decide in terms of redactions to the criminal affidavit which targets Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MEREDITH (voice-over): Lawyers for former President Trump claim federal agents violated his Fourth Amendment rights by searching his Florida home and remove multiple items including cases of classified and top secret documents.

JIM TRUSTY, TRUMP ATTORNEY: The Fourth Amendment requires particularity. It requires narrowness to the intrusion on the person's home.

MEREDITH: But a federal judge signed off on the search. This week, the same judge will decide how much of a criminal affidavit detailing the government's case against Trump can be released.

Multiple media organizations but not Trump himself argued last week in court it should be made public.

DEANNA SCHULLMAN, MEDIA ATTORNEY: That is the public interest. We are entitled to monitor the affairs of our government at all levels.

MEREDITH: Federal prosecutors argue releasing too much information may compromise an on going investigation and endanger witnesses cooperating with the government. Officials are also concerned about potential attacks on law enforcement.

FBI Director Christopher Wray telling "The Wall Street Journal", quote, I think most people rightly condemn violence and threats of violence but there are a noisy few who seem to believe otherwise.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MEREDITH (on camera): The former president continues to fundraise off of the search as well as the investigation. There are reports he has raked in a lot of money in recent weeks. But he's mostly avoided the cameras, instead, posting mostly on social media.

But we have learned he is going to hold a political rally this time in the battleground state of Pennsylvania over Labor Day weekend -- Trace.

GALLAGHER: Mark Meredith reporting from Palm Beach -- Mark, thank you.

Joining us now is New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu.

Governor, welcome to "FOX News Sunday".

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Morning, brother.

GALLAGHER: Sir, I want to start with the CDC external review out this week finding deficiencies in their COVID-19 response. They admitted they have at times put out confusing guidance, to say the least. Now they're planning an overhaul to become a more rapid response public health agency.

You've been a governor navigating this pandemic. Is that enough for you? Do you think with this they can rebuild public trust?

SUNUNU: Did we really need a taxpayer-funded external review to determine that the CDC is all over the place?

I mean, for the last two years, they say one thing, they do another. They tell us one thing privately, they do another. These guys have been constantly backtracking.

So I guess the only good take away here is they're acknowledging it. I think they're starting to realize that we are really out of this pandemic. We're moving forward as a country. Local control and local decisions are best made by parents and families.

And so, are we going to have COVID surges coming? Of course, we are. But we have those tools now. We have the vaccine. We have therapeutics.

We have all these tools in our tool box now. So, I guess it's great they're finally acknowledging it. But it's something the rest of America has acknowledged for the last 18 months.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. And the reason I talk about public trust, sir, is because it's only a few months ago that the CDC director also came out and said, listen, when we said to follow the science, we never said the science was exact.

And my response would be, well, you kind of did say the science was exact and those who failed to comply were all listed as, at least from the left, were all listed as public health threats.

SUNUNU: Look, when officials come out from the national government and talk about science, there's an implied understanding -- as the guy that went to MIT and, you know, studied science and engineering -- when you say the word "science", you're saying data. You're saying we know what's happening. We understand it and here's the response that we need.

You cannot come back out and say something totally different down the road because most importantly, we don't want to have the CDC -- people have no trust in the CDC. We don't want that, but unfortunately that's -- that's where we are today.

As a governor, I was on those calls with the CDC director. We're on the calls with the White House. We'd hear one thing on the phone and something totally different would happen the next week, mass confusion.

So, as governors, during the height of the pandemic, we really had to buckle down and do what's best for our citizens and make our decisions.

We kind of listened to what they said. Okay, I hear you, but this is what we're seeing on the ground and we had to make decisions for our citizens.

I think, overall, governors did a very, very good job, at least in the red states. I can't speak for some of those blue states with all the excessive lockdowns because, again, they just kept doing whatever the White House and the CDC was telling them one week and then shifting the next week, eroding trust with what should be a really responsive branch of government.

GALLAGHER: Yeah, and you talked about children earlier. The CDC is also out with new COVID guidelines for schools, just as kids head back to the classrooms. They no longer recommend routine testing for grades K-12 unless, of course, community transmission is high.

Do you support that change, Governor?

SUNUNU: Yeah. Look, locals -- locals and schools and parents have to make the decisions for themselves.

I live in New Hampshire. We're a live free or die state. We believe in local control. We believe in schools making those decisions for themselves, not having the federal or even the state government come down and push certain answers on to them and certain protocols on to them.

So, especially where we are now, knowing we have all these tools in the toolbox, knowing that folks are working collaboratively with their school districts, collaboratively with parents to understand what these issues are -- yeah, that is -- local control is definitely the right approach.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. And the other major back to school story this week is the big teacher shortage in the U.S. nationally. We're talking about 280,000 countrywide fewer teachers than there were before the pandemic. But it's interesting because in New Hampshire, in your state, you have actually renewed more education credentials this year.

So what exactly is driving the trend nationally and what are you doing different in New Hampshire to have different results, sir?

SUNUNU: Well, nationally, whether it's teachers, nurses, there's a couple professions here that have just absolutely burned out. And we understand that nationally, after what's happened over the past couple years.

In New Hampshire, we're different. We really heart (ph) -- if you may -- on that local control. We work collaboratively. We don't fight it.

You know, we put more dollars in public education for students than ever before. And we passed school choice, right? And we're creating more opportunities for kids in public schools to get credentialed in a -- you know, a work force type environment that they want to enter into.

We're just not doing things traditionally. And when you support that local aspect, you inspire creativity, you let teachers have some -- have some say working with those parents, local control is really the answer.

Any time the government gets overly involved in education, it normally doesn't go well. And so, we take that kind of push back approach. We believe in parents and teachers. Teachers now want to be here.

We're the only state in New England that's actually growing in population. Businesses are flooding in.

And so, you know, we've really focused on the individuals, individual towns, individual schools. That allows I think kind of rising tide floats all boats here in New Hampshire.

And that's why -- look, we have the strongest economy in the country. We're -- we -- in the first quarter of 2022, we were the only state with the positive GDP.

So, everything is driving forward in a positive direction. We don't get caught up in the overly political aspects of things.

You know, Glenn Youngkin had it right. Parents matter, right? And teachers matter. They all matter. And they have to work collaboratively.

We've been able to foster that here. And we're proud of the fact that we've been able to actually increase the number of teachers over the past couple of years.

GALLAGHER: Interesting you used the phrase "creating opportunity". I want to get your take. What do you make of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' proposal to recruit military veterans and first responders without teaching degrees to help fill those vacancies down in Florida?

SUNUNU: Look, I love the aspect -- the idea of focusing on military, focusing on veterans, focusing on folks with real world experience. You know, you get them into those classrooms. You get them into a job. You go through the credentialing process.

There are states out there where if you want to be a teacher, it literally really takes to be credentialed, even if you've been one before, right? Because they have their whole process and rigmarole.

So, streamlining the regulatory and permitting and certification process is whether it's teachers or manufacturers, that's an opportunity that every state has.

We're doing it here. We're streamlining our whole thing. I think our reciprocity we have with places like Massachusetts and Maine, and Vermont, makes it very easy for folks to come over the border, which is one of the reasons why we're growing.

So, I love the concept. The country has workforce shortages. Let's stop making -- allowing government get in the way of getting these people on the floors, in these classrooms, whatever they have to do to give them a job, and get kids or get the product out.

And that's what it's all about. It's not about the system. It's about the kids.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. I want to change gears here to the midterms, to New Hampshire politics. Incumbent Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan is up for reelection, the GOP primary weeks away.

Right now, polling has retired General Don Bolduc leading. You said this week that Bolduc is a conspiracy theorist who really threatens your party's chances at winning back the seat.

Are you concerned? Is there a worry in your party that GOP could be missing out on a golden opportunity here?

SUNUNU: Well, Senator Hassan's going to lose in November. There's no doubt about that. She has spent $25 million. Her approval rating hasn't moved.

I hope she spends $100 million of the Democrats' money because it's going to go up in flames here.

You know, we have seen other races across the country. We've seen national discussion that when you elect the wrong individual, it makes it much harder to win in November, right? You have to have good candidates, quality candidates at the end of the day, whether you're running for a planning board, you're running for governor, U.S. Senate or president, you've got to get quality candidates that can cross the line.

Winning in a primary means nothing. It means nothing. You can't govern if you don't win in November. And that's all that matters.

And I focus on winners. And I want to best candidates that can win. I want the candidates that have the best shot at beating Maggie Hassan, to make our lives a little easier.

And so, that's why, you know, I'm focusing on other candidates, frankly, because I don't want to happen to New Hampshire what we've already seen happen in other states where that gap becomes just too big. You're seeing it in Pennsylvania, unfortunately, in Georgia.

I still think those Republican candidates can win. I think they're good candidates. But they're having a much harder time of it than they, frankly, should have in what should be a wipeout year.

Nationally, the problem is this: we are talking about things that aren't mattering -- that don't matter to the voters. The voters care about kitchen table issues. They care about high prices.

GALLAGHER: Yeah.

SUNUNU: They care about inflation. They care about, you know, having options for their kids in schools.

And we're still -- I mean, Mar-a-Lago is a very important issue and January 6th, what happened there is very important. But those aren't driving folks to the polls. Those aren't driving folks in the voting booth.

And so, we've got to get back in the media, social media, and our kitchen table discussion. And if we do that, Republicans across the board can be very successful.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. You talk about, you know, politics here. Former President Mike Pence visited New Hampshire this week, so did Republican Senator Tom Cotton.

SUNUNU: Yeah.

GALLAGHER: Take a look. A huge roster of potential 2024 candidates have visited your state in recent months. I mean, it's a great state. You wonder why they're coming.

We're talking Liz Cheney --

SUNUNU: There's a couple --

GALLAGHER: Go ahead.

SUNUNU: Yeah, there's a couple outside the studio waiting to talk to me right now. No, I'm just --

(LAUGHTER)

GALLAGHER: We got Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, Nikki Haley, Mike Pompeo, Tim Scott. I mean, it really, the list goes on. It's a long way to 2024 getting a bit crowded in the Granite State. They're knocking on the door trying to get you to help them.

What do you make of this? Have you talked to anybody about why they're coming to New Hampshire?

SUNUNU: Oh, yeah. No, I talk to all -- all the candidates that want to come out, I'll happily sit down with all of them.

But my focus is, if we don't close the deal in 2022 as Republicans, across this country, you don't close this deal in '22, `24 ain't going to matter. We've got to start focusing on closing this deal, making sure we cross the finish line with good candidates, winning back the Senate.

I think we're going to get the House, but the Senate, instead of being a guaranteed 54th, New Hampshire could be that 51st vote now. And I think it's going to be. But we really got to make sure we close the deal.

The other issue is, you've got to -- how we campaign here is a little different. You got to look people in the eye.

The running joke in New Hampshire is, hey, you're going to vote for President Trump? Well, I don't know. I have only met him twice, right?

You've got to be able to integrate with folks on a one-on-one level, in their living rooms, in their businesses. And if you do that, you can be very successful. I'm kind of like the referee, if you will.

GALLAGHER: The referee -- yeah, the referee who's also very popular in his state. It looks like your race is going very well.

My question to you is, have you talked with any donors about 2024?

SUNUNU: You mean in terms of -- in terms of what? Like who they're going to be supporting? People -- donors come up all the time and say, what do you think of this candidate or that candidate? Yeah.

GALLAGHER: Maybe you're running for something else, Governor? Are you concerned, you have all these people coming in. They've all said the same thing, you know, if Chris Sununu runs for president, that changes the whole dynamic, right? It changes everything when you talk about visiting anything.

SUNUNU: Oh, I'm very flattered.

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: It is true. So, no?

SUNUNU: No. Look, it's all flattering. People are talking. I get it.

But '22, that is my message to everyone in this country. Stop worrying about '24. Stop worrying about who's running for president.

GALLAGHER: Yeah.

SUNUNU: Let's all focus -- knock on doors, pick up the phone. That has to be done.

Then we'll have plenty of time for 2024. And as we all know, politics move quickly. What happened -- the political landscape today is going to be totally different just one year from now. And even that will be six months before the first of the nation primary of New Hampshire. So we got a long way to go.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. You have often said. You mentioned January 6. You mentioned Mar-a-Lago. You have often said that you are not anti-Trump, but many have also said you have been somewhat of a thorn in the former president's side.

And while he was in New Hampshire, former Vice President Mike Pence touched on the backlash after the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago. Here he is. Watch.

SUNUNU: Yeah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: Our party stands with the men and women who serve on the thin blue line at the federal and state and local level. And these attacks on the FBI must stop. Calls to defund the FBI are just as wrong as calls to defund the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: What do you make of the search of Mar-a-Lago, sir, and of this fierce backlash?

SUNUNU: So, couple things. I think the biggest issue is what we've all been talking about. The fact that when you are going to go into a former president's house that clearly Biden and Garland, they had no strategy, no anticipation about saying we're going to take unprecedented action. So we better have an unprecedented plan for disclosure.

And the fact that we're weeks in now, they're not showing any cards. They're not showing anything. The lack of transparency, it's infuriating. And that is where they have absolutely blown it and that's where they've lost the trust of the American people because it just looks political.

They didn't strike -- I get this whole thing that, well, you don't want to disclose things if it's an active investigation. That should have been thought of before.

If they didn't anticipate this type of response from the American people -- well, they're morons. They really are. They're absolute fools, because you cannot walk into a former president's home, raid his home like that and then say, we'll get back to you later. Not acceptable to the American people.

So I think Vice President Mike Pence, Mike Pence, he's -- by the way, great guy, has done a -- did a phenomenal job as vice president and he's absolutely right. We shouldn't be talking about defunding police and FBI. We're Republicans. We support law enforcement every single time.

But the strategy at the top has been a disaster and they have to own that.

GALLAGHER: New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu -- Governor, thank you for your time this weekend and we appreciate it.

SUNUNU: You bet.

GALLAGHER: Up next, as the president signs his massive climate health and tax bill into law, critics debate whether it will help lower inflation or make it worse. We'll discuss with Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GALLAGHER: Well, the White House says help is on the way for working families because of the newly signed Inflation Reduction Act, including lower costs for healthcare and energy. But will some of those tax credits get to the people who could use them the most?

With us now, U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm.

Secretary, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, U.S. ENERGY SECRETARY: Thanks so much.

GALLAGHER: You have said in recent weeks that you hope gas prices will continue to fall, but now, NBC is reporting this morning -- and I'm quoting here -- behind the scenes, officials worry prices could rise again as they keep looking for ways to get more oil on the market.

Given the issues with refinery capacity and the war in Ukraine, can you give us, Secretary, any more certainly that prices will keep falling?

GRANHOLM: Yeah. As you know, gasoline comes from oil. Oil is traded on a global market. And so, we are at the whim, if you will, of what happens globally.

However, this president has moved in dramatic ways to increase supply by releasing a million barrels a day from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve, as well as calling on our domestic producers, as well as international producers. We will be at record amounts of production next year.

All of that is to say our Energy Information Administration has projected that by the fourth quarter, gas prices will be around $3.87 on average. Today, they're about 3.90 -- excuse me, $3.78. Today, they're at $3.90. They have fallen every day of this summer. We're hopeful that will continue.

But if China opens up significantly after COVID, there will be a more pressure on demand. More pressure on demand means upward pressure on prices. So we're watching what happens globally. But we are doing everything possible to try to stabilize supply and demand to try to keep those prices coming down.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. We see -- at the bottom of the screen, it says prices falling below $4. And I think it's worth noting that in a lot of places around this country, like in California, gas is right near $6 a gallon. So, different places, different situations.

I want to keep going on. This article goes on quoting here to say: There is no indication that Biden's other efforts like publicly shaming oil and gas companies over their record profits, calling an emergency meeting with CEOs and threatening to pull unused drilling permits have had any effect on price or production, according to industry experts.

So national gas prices, as we said, below $4 nationally on average for the first time since March. But the Treasury Department said last month, the releases from the Strategic Oil Reserves only lower gas by anywhere from $0.17 to $0.42 a gallon. What do you make of that?

GRANHOLM: Well, first of all, the prices have dropped, as you said, more than $1. They are now at $3.90. They were over $5. So, clearly, there has been an impact on increased production.

President has done two things. The release of a million barrels a day is the biggest tool at our disposal. This is all about supply and demand.

When Russia invaded Ukraine, that pulled millions of barrels off of the global market. Since oil is traded globally, we have to make up for that lost amount of fuel. And that's why the president has called for this increase in releasing and increase in production.

And as I say, we'll be at record production, 12.7 million barrels per day, by next year.

GALLAGHER: Yeah. I want to move on to the Inflation Reduction Act signed this week. It includes tax credits for people who buy electric vehicles. But as you know, one of the critiques here with these credits is that the prices are high, right? And the supply is limited.

What is the practicality? Because it seems like there's a disconnect. What's the practicality for everyday Americans in this kind of benefit?

GRANHOLM: Yeah, yeah. Great question.

There's two -- two implications here. One is, for example, if you want to buy a used electric vehicle, you can get $4,000 off at the dealership today. If you want to buy a new electric vehicle, there is a $7,500 credit for those that are assembled in America.

So, today, there are 21 models that are assembled in America. But additional restrictions will kick in starting in January, requiring domestic contents. Meaning that some -- the materials, the supplies for those vehicles, will also have to be built in America.

Why is this important? Because the president has said that we need to manufacture stuff in America, that we can't rely upon countries who don't share our values for the batteries, for example, for electric vehicles, which contain critical minerals, critical materials.

He wants to reshore manufacturing. It's not just in electric vehicles. This Inflation Reduction Act provides credit to businesses, to incentivize them to reshore in America.

I'm the former governor of Michigan. The notion of creating and enhancing our manufacturing base, our manufacturing backbone is huge.

It will be in solar panels. It will be in wind turbines. It will be in transmission. It will be in electric vehicles and the batteries for those electric vehicles.

A whole supply chain and ecosystem, energy ecosystem, built up in the United States because of the incentives in this Inflation Reduction Act.

GALLAGHER: But you talk about incentives. And people -- maybe it's the messaging. People quite -- don't quite get it.

FOX asked people whether they plan to take advantage of the tax credit and here's what they told us. And we'll get your response on the other side. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I personally wouldn't buy an electric car with that much money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not going to even think about it because we don't have the income available to buy a new car, even with the incentive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What really is $7,500 against the cost of an electronic car?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: And, really, you could make the same argument, we were talking about tax breaks for adding solar panels, energy efficient windows, appliances, heat pumps. You know, what do you say to the families who simply can't afford this stuff in the first place?

GRANHOLM: Well, number one, for your home -- yes, there are significant incentives in this bill, which is great to reduce people's energy costs on a monthly basis.

So if you are low income, you can get your home entirely weatherized through the expansion from the bipartisan infrastructure law, significant expansion. You don't have to pay for anything. If you want heat pumps, insulation, new windows, that is covered.

If you are moderate income, today you can get 30 percent off the price of solar panels. Those solar panels can be financed so you don't have to have the big outlay at the front. And when they're financed, they're financed in a way that reduces your energy bill even though you have solar panels. With this 30 percent off, it's a significant incentive. Same thing with -- if you don't qualify for the weatherization program, you will be able to, starting next year, get rebates on the appliances and equipment that will help you reduce your monthly energy bill by up to 30 percent. This is all about reducing costs for people.

GALLAGHER: And yet the electricity prices continue to go up, Secretary -- Governor. You know this because you have dealt with these problems. And how do you get electricity to various states? I was talking to Governor Sununu earlier. And he was pointing out that, you know, to build a transmission line, especially an interstate transmission line, you're talking seven to 15 years. And the prices keep rising.

GRANHOLM: Ridiculous.

GALLAGHER: That is a major problem when you're talking about telling people to buy electric cars and then wondering how you're going to get them electricity to power those cars.

GRANHOLM: OK. First of all, number one, you are totally right about permitting. It is ridiculous. Part of the Inflation Reduction Act is driving toward reducing permitting times. That's another second bill that will follow in September. And -- and the Inflation Reduction Act also provides incentives to lower the time and the cost and the wait time for permitting. So that was just given to us. So we want to accelerate this push to clean electricity. And the reason why we want it to be clean, in addition to the climate, is because solar and wind are cheaper in most places across the world, but definitely in the U.S. than other forms...

GALLAGHER: But they're unreliable.

GRANHOLM: ... of energy.

GALLAGHER: Secretary, they're unreliable.

GRANHOLM: No, they are not unreliable if you...

GALLAGHER: They are unreliable on the grids because it takes a lot of energy, electricity, to get them into the grid or fossil fuels to get them on to the grid. And if you don't have -- at night time, we don't have the battery power to store it. You have to use it or you lose it. And so it's unreliable in states like Texas, they found out. And that's a problem is...

GRANHOLM: No.

GALLAGHER: ... we need to come up with battery power to store that stuff.

GRANHOLM: OK. Texas is the largest producer of both wind and solar, or one and two. They are extremely important to adding clean energy to our grid. With respect to the intermittency, you say they're unreliable. They are intermittent because it doesn't always -- the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow. But the battery technology that stores that, that is also incentivized in this Inflation Reduction Act. The technology is there. We just need to make sure that it's implemented.

So the great thing is when you combine solar or wind with battery technology, that becomes like baseload power that is reliable, which is very exciting. Other forms of clean energy are also incentivized, like nuclear power, like hydroelectric power, like geothermal power. All of those are also incentivized in the Inflation Reduction Act, which will make us as a nation energy independent, which will make us -- allow us to get to our goals of 100 percent clean electricity by 2035 and net zero carbon pollution, which causes climate change, by 2050.

GALLAGHER: Yes, it also seems to me like nuclear power has also been villainized (ph) and incentivized at the same time.

Finally, I know this is not your agency, but as a former governor, I wanted to get your take. Your reaction to the CDC this week kind of coming out with this mea culpa over how they handled the pandemic. Governors across the country followed along with the CDC day-by-day guidance, often following the mask mandates, right, the school closures. It impacted every American. And many are really still confused. So if you can put your governor's hat back on very quickly for us, is this explanation enough for the CDC?

GRANHOLM: Well, they're taking action to correct. And I applaud any agency, any governor, any news organization that decides that decides that they have got to improve. And good for them. They've acknowledged it and they're moving forward.

GALLAGHER: Secretary Granholm, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

GRAHHOLM: You bet.

GALLAGHER: Up next, in just days we could see unsealed documents with details on why the FBI searched former President Trump's Mar-a-Lago home. We'll bring in our Sunday group on the search and the fallout and what's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON LAPOOK, CBS CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Was the agency up to the task of handling this pandemic?

ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: I think our public health infrastructure in the country was not up to the task.

We made some pretty public mistakes and we need to own them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: CDC Director Rochelle Walensky admitting this week her agency gave confusing and overwhelming guidance during the COVID-19 pandemic. And it's time now for our Sunday group: former Utah Congressman and FOX News contributor Jason Chaffetz; Democratic strategist and co-host of "The Five," Jessica Tarlov; and FOX News political analyst Juan Williams.

Welcome to you all. Jason, to you first. The CDC this week admitted that some of their COVID guidance was, quoting here, "confusing and overwhelming." So they're reorganizing and promising more plain language. I mean, my question to you is how should Americans feel about this because you could not disagree with the CDC, Jason, or you were banned from social media, you were called a public health threat, you had to comply?

JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, you had to comply and if you didn't, you were demonized and literally shut down on social media. Look, until the agency actually has a sweeping change at the top, that they change management and put out some new faces, I think this administration will continue to struggle. And it's sad, Trace, because we need to Centers for Disease Control when there truly is something dramatic going on to have the confidence of the American people. They lost that trust. They had it. They lost it. And they deserve to be fired. They shouldn't be in this place.

GALLAGHER: Yes, I wonder what your take is on this, Juan, because this reversal doesn't validate some people who really resisted a lot of these -- these heavy COVID mandates.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX POLITICAL ANALYST: Trace, I think the review is warranted. The CDC needs to do a better job of messaging. But anybody who takes delight in their problems is playing just brassy politics here. The CDC was doing their best to find answers to a novel virus. This was an unprecedented virus. No one had answers early. The scientists were doing science. They were trying to figure things out. And as they tried to figure things out, they made some mistakes. But you know what? Their job was made far more difficult because of President Trump, who said this thing was going to be gone in two weeks. He said it was like the common cold. He downplayed it. He attacked the science. He attacked the CDC. He attacked the NIH and Dr. Fauci. You know, he politicized mask-wearing and social distancing.

So it became a political game. And I think that political game made it more difficult for anybody who was trying to deal with a historic crisis, a pandemic, in our nation at that moment. I think the CDC can do a better job. But let's not take pleasure in their problem. Their problem is our problem because we're going to have future medical issues to deal with and we want them to perform in a better way.

GALLAGHER: I don't think anybody is taking pleasure in it, Juan. I mean, nobody is -- nobody is taking pleasure in the mistakes the CDC made. I think what they're saying is, is there was dissent. There was other opinions out there. And those opinions were shut down. And the CDC, we know now, was wrong. On many occasions they were wrong. But if you had a differing opinion and a different point of view, even well-known doctors, they were shut down and they were villainized. And I guess that's what...

WILLIAMS: No, they were trying to -- I think a lot of people now are trying to say, oh, Trump was right. Trump was wrong. And if you're saying that...

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: He was wrong on some things just like the CDC, and he was correct on a lot of things.

WILLIAMS: Yes, this disease was gone in two weeks, Trace? Come on.

GALLAGHER: Again, he was -- nobody was right on everything. And that's my point here.

I want to move on, Jessica. Meantime, the White House just wants to sell their legislative wins and contrast themselves with Republicans. White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain told Politico, quoting here: "The choice just couldn't be any clearer," and says Democrats stood up to big pharma, to big oil, to big corporations, to the gun lobby. Is that a strong enough case, given the fact that we are in this crippling inflation? We've got high gas prices. NBC is reporting they could go even higher in the weeks and months to come. What do you think, Jessica?

JESSICA TARLOV, HOST, "THE FIVE": It seems like it is a strong enough case for the American people. For the first time since November, the 538 averages and the RealClearPolitics averages have Democrats inched ahead of Republicans in terms of who is favored to control the House after November. We're also favored to keep the Senate. Mitch McConnell admitted this a couple of days ago. Stopped by a reporter and said that it wasn't looking good for Republicans. A lot of that has to do with very poor selection of candidates in states like Arizona and Georgia, what's going on in Ohio, potentially in Wisconsin with Mandela Barnes, making big strides against Ron Johnson, leading in the last two polls there.

So, yes, the American people are hearing the president and administration loud and clear about these legislative accomplishments. And they certainly mean a lot to them. And, yes, inflation is still bad. It's over 8 percent. But it is coming down. Gas prices, as Secretary Granholm pointed out, are under $4 on average. Hope that they will get back down to 3. The American people seem clear that the Republicans have not proven to them that they deserve to take control in November thus far, but 80 days to go, or 79 days to go.

GALLAGHER: And I wonder, Juan, Jessica talks about the good things the administration is doing or has done. Did all of Biden's good news get lost, as we see yet another headline about former President Trump. Right now we're waiting to see what the redacted affidavit says about why the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago. What's the impact in your estimation, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, to your point, Trace, I think the search warrant definitely overshadowed Biden's big week. If you need any proof that Biden didn't know about it, I guess that's it. But the larger point is that in the short term the attention on President Trump, the affidavit, the search warrant, even the judge's decisions, you know, I think the short term may benefit because all the narrative and media attention is on Trump. But in the long term, I think that people, you know, seeing the chaos, the ever- changing Trump explanations for why he kept documents that were classified or even just presidential government documents in his home in Mar-a-Lago, people think that's, you know, chaotic. This is why people -- you know, people got tired of it when he was president. And I think it then extends, when you think about the attacks on law enforcement, this talk coming from the right of defund the FBI? That's not helpful. That doesn't help the Republicans with moderate voters in any way.

So I think in the long term this could be more damaging. But in the short term, you're right. I mean, it definitely distracts from what was major accomplishments in lowering prescription drug prices, you know, doing more in terms of trying to help the American people move forward.

GALLAGHER: And I just want to get 30 seconds, if I can, from each of you, from Jason and Jessica. Jason, you first. The impact of this. I mean, it seems to me like there have been a lot of leaks, right? The affidavit could be redacted, blacked out, much of it, maybe 90 percent of it. We're not going to get information and yet the -- the Justice Department gets the chance, maybe they're leaking, maybe they're not, but they're controlling the narrative. And -- and the president -- the former president really doesn't have a lot to battle with in the meantime. Jason, your thoughts?

CHAFFETZ: The president is championing openness and transparency. I think it's suspicious that this -- this raid happened 18 months after the president left. It looks wholly political. I think the Department of Justice has to come out and provide some other explanation when it's so close, again, to the midterms.

GALLAGHER: Yes.

Final thoughts on this, Jessica?

TARLOV: There's a new NBC poll that came out this morning that showed that 57 percent of Americans want the investigation to continue versus only 40 percent that think that it should stop. Jason said that the president has been open and transparent, but that only goes so far as what he's posting on social media. His lawyers have done nothing in court even though it has been available to them. There have been defenders of President Trump who are even questioning the legal strategy here and whether his team is up to the challenge. The latest is that they want a special master but, again, filed nothing, haven't asked for a recusal of Judge Reinhart. He's spinning his wheels on Truth Social and nowhere else.

GALLAGHER: Yes, Trump's legal team says they have a very good plan. We will see if that's true. We have to take a break right here...

TARLOV: Love to see it.

GALLAGHER: ... panel, stand by.

Up next, the Senate Republican leader's seemingly grim prediction on his party's chances in the midterms, we will discuss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: There's probably a greater likelihood the House flips than the Senate. Senate races are just different. They're statewide. Candidate quality has a lot to do with the outcome. But I think when all is said and done this fall, we are likely to have an extremely close Senate, either our side up slightly or their side up slightly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell with a bit of candor on whether or not he thinks Republicans will retake the Senate in the midterms. And we are back now with the panel.

Jason, let's start with you. The recent FOX poll shows incumbent Democrat Mark Kelly up over challenger Blake Masters in Arizona. And the poll has Democrat Mandela Barnes up over incumbent Republican Ron Johnson in Wisconsin. I know it's early. We talk about this a lot. Still some time. But are you concerned, Jason, about the state of these Senate races for the GOP?

CHAFFETZ: No. Look, both sides of the aisle are concerned about it. I mean, the balance of power is going to come down to a few races and potentially just a few thousand votes here or there. I think when voters focus on the issues, I think when they focus on what's the reality of the Inflation Reduction Act and that there isn't actually inflation reduction in there, it's the Green New Deal disguised as something else, I think people are going to be irate. And they're going to vote about what's going on with inflation, energy, immigration, what's going on with the crime in their cities. And the Democrats, I don't think, have an answer to all of that.

They can spend $1.5 billion to put trees in urban areas in the latest bill but that ain't going to solve the American people's problems.

GALLAGHER: You know, Juan, we also saw one poll this week showing Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings up over Republican Senator Marco Rubio in Florida. What do you make of that? Is it true? Is it an outlier? Your thoughts?

WILLIAMS: I've -- you know, I've got to think it's an outlier at this point. But it's part of this flashing light I think for Republicans and for national politics at the moment. We thought this was going to be a red wave year, people voting against the party in power, the Democrats, because there's a lot of discontent in the country. And the red wave at this point looks like a red drip or a red ripple. And the reason, reflected in Florida and the races that you were just talking about with Jason, is that more and more people are thinking, you know what? We see the benefits now coming, the results coming, the legislative progress coming from the Biden administration. We see -- have a sense that things are somewhat chaotic. You know, you think about the abortion decision coming from a Republican majority of justices on the court. You look at the decrease in gas prices, inflation, and the like. Meanwhile, you have Senator McConnell and Senator Scott, Rick Scott of Florida playing the blame game and shifting money, you know, putting money into Ohio, you know, a state that people thought was pretty confident to hold for the Republicans.

So I think this is -- we are in the midst of some shifting political landscape at the moment.

GALLAGHER: Although we are also in the midst of a pretty deep inflationary downturn. And, you know, gas prices are dipping a little bit. There's other stuff going on. And the crime is just unfathomable.

Jessica, Congresswoman Liz Cheney lost her primary, as we know, after taking on former President Trump. And she lost by a pretty good margin, big. So here's what she said the morning after. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R), WYOMING: I believe that Donald Trump continues to pose a very grave threat and risk to our republic. And I think that defeating him is going to require a broad and united front of Republicans, Democrats, and independents. And that's what I intend to be -- to be part of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Yes, so what coalition can she reasonably build, Jessica? And can she really take on President Trump?

TARLOV: I don't think that she can take on President Trump. And we saw this in the Wyoming primary. Harriet Hageman, who defeated her by landslide numbers, was Trump-backed. And people turned out on that basis. The election was a referendum on that. And we should add that Liz Cheney isn't, you know, your average never-Trumper. She's the vice chair of the January 6th Committee. So these are extenuating circumstances.

In terms of her chances to win the presidency, obviously I don't think that that's going to be happening. And unfortunately I think that if she did run or someone like an Andrew Yang with his new party, for instance, that's more of a coalition idea, are just going to shave off votes from Democrats, which I'm not in favor of.

But Donald Trump is obviously incredibly important still to the party. I do believe that what's going on with January 6th and the search of Mar-a- Lago is going to hurt him though. And I'm glad that he's not announcing before the midterms. I think that that would throw, you know, a whole other spanner in the works there. But he's important. And until he retires from politics, that will continue to be the case.

GALLAGHER: I've got about 25 seconds if you want to wrap this up, Jason.

CHAFFETZ: Look, Donald Trump is still the biggest -- he's the biggest dog in the hunt right now in what he does. But I've got to tell you, Republicans focus on issues, win on issues. That's what's going to win the day.

GALLAGHER: Panel, thank you. We'll see you next Sunday.

Up next, we'll have a final word.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GALLAGHER: Well, that's it for today. I'm Trace Gallagher.

Before we go, you may have heard our colleague, a tremendous journalist, really one of the best, Shannon Bream, will take over this chair permanently next month. She will follow in the footsteps of Tony Snow and Chris Wallace. Shannon will also continue in her role as FOX News chief legal correspondent. She will have a very busy career coming up. But every Sunday you will see her here beginning September 11th. And until then, you can find Shannon weeknights on FOX News Channel anchoring "FOX News at Night."

Have a great week, everyone. And we will see you next "FOX News Sunday."

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