Did Sean Penn inadvertently do 'El Chapo' in?
Mexico's attorney general calls actor's interview 'essential' to the capture of the fugitive drug lord
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 11, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, THE FIVE CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is the "The Five."
Tonight, Sean Penn is defending his secret interview with Mexican drug lord, "El Chapo," while he was still a fugitive, more on that in a moment. But first, new dramatic video has been released of the raid that led to Chapo's capture on Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Gunshots)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: The Mexican military firing dozens of shots and tossing grenades before storming Chapo's hideout. It was two days after that scene that Rolling Stone dropped a bombshell, releasing an interview conducted by actor Sean Penn with the drug lord in October and when Chapo brags about his crimes. The White House has responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENIS MCDONOUGH, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I was appalled by his bragging, in particular, George, about an epidemic that's sweeping the country on heroin addiction. I was appalled by his bragging to the interviewers in Rolling Stone that he moves more heroin than anybody in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: While Penn is coming under fire for the one on one, here's Marco Rubio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Sean Penn is not someone I spend a lot of time thinking about. I didn't even know he was still around.
I think he made movies a long time ago or something. I don't -- he and Chapo, I guess, used the interview he had in order to find him, the Mexicans did. That's fantastic. I hope they extradite "El Chapo" to the United States. And you know, if one of these American actors who have benefited from the greatness of this country, who have made money on the free enterprise system, want to go fund all over a criminal and are drug traffickers in their interviews, they have a constitutional right to do it.
I find it grotesque.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, but the actor says he has no regrets doing the interview and has nothing to hide. But did he inadvertently do "El Chapo" in? Mexico's attorney general calls Penn an essential element in the drug lord's capture.
OK. All right. We're going to discuss it now. I wanted to see a little bit of sounds on that. All right. So this is -- the best part of all that was kind of Marco Rubio's response. I thought, Dana, what was he thinking kind of.
(CROSSTALK)
DANA PERINO, THE FIVE CO-HOST: I think he was dismissive of Hollywood and I think -- there is a lot of reasons to be dismissive of Sean Penn. I did -- when this first -- this news first broke I thought one thing I would think that the White House would be appalled by would be Rolling Stone's decision to give "El Chapo" detail power over anything that was written in the article. I do wonder though about Sean Penn's PR people. As soon as it broke, I thought what Sean Penn should say is, "I meant to do that," that he doesn't mind that his interview led to the capture of "El Chapo," because perhaps maybe we will find out that maybe Rolling Stone did provide information to the government. I think that's yet to be seen, but it's plausible there was some sort of cooperation.
GUILFOYLE: Wow. I mean can you imagine the ramifications of that? That's OK.
ERIC BOLLING, THE FIVE CO-HOST: No.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, Bolling. I mean probably not. I'm giving them too much credit.
BOLLING: Sean Penn would be hiding for the rest of his life if that were the case. So I'm guessing that -- I would think that that's not the way they wanted to go. It felt to me when the White House responded -- I'm -- we were talking about this, why would they respond, why would they respond, and then you kind of realize because of the escape -- "El Chapo's" original escape was such a national embarrassment for Mexico. The White House puts a little pressure on them. And now, Mexico today says they are likely going to proceed with some extradition processes to bring him -- "El Chapo" back to the United States.
GUILFOYLE: And why is that? Because they don't want huevos on their face .
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: No. But let's talk a little bit about Rolling Stone agreeing to letting "El Chapo" have final editorial say on what goes in that. I mean if that's not the final nail in this magazine or whatever they are as coffin it should be, after the UVA story they fabricated based on no fact whatsoever, and then you say you have a global drug lord that everyone is looking for this guy, and you're going to let him dictate the narrative and editorial that comes out on a piece in your magazine? You're out of your mind. They'll get a lot of eyeballs and that should be the end of the Rolling Stone situation right there especially -- did you hear what Sean Penn said about this guy? Well, yes, he only kills when his business required him to kill. So it was like almost patting "El Chapo" on the back for being such an outstanding citizen and businessman in that respect.
GUILFOYLE: I know. And did you notice that we get the picture of the two of them shaking hands again because do you notice they -- that means yes, pop it up -- the mustaches is -- I'm telling you, I bet you he'll play him in a movie, Sean Penn. I bet you there was a discussion about that. You wait and see.
PERINO: Well, that's what the story line was about .
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean this was unbelievable.
PERINO: because "El Chapo" was into that Mexican actress. The Mexican actress was flirting with Sean Penn or whatever. I figure I could get an interview. So basically, "El Chapo" was brought down because he was obsessed with a woman.
GUILFOYLE: Isn't that always the case, Juan? Have you had that problem before?
JUAN WILLIAMS, THE FIVE CO-HOST: Yeah, yeah. They call her my wife now.
PERINO: Good answer.
WILLIAMS: But you know -- you know what strikes me is that Hollywood, according to Penn and to this woman -- what's her name, Kate del Castillo? Hollywood was approaching "El Chapo" while he was in prison to try to get the story.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
WILLIAMS: Then he gets out of prison and that's when Sean Penn then and his group start to pursue him gets out of prison when he escaped.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: And what strikes me is then all this talk about, "Oh, you know, how many people in the United States really know who I am?" That's what "El Chapo" is asking Sean Penn. Sean Penn tells him, "Oh, a lot of Americans know you." They then -- you know, they have these scenes where, "Oh, you know what? Maybe it's like Scarface. You know, I'm the bad guy. But actually the problem would exist even if I did not exist because America has such an appetite for drugs." What a jerk that guy is? I mean talk about.
GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, those are actually psychiatric terms .
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: But I mean, OK .
GUILFOYLE: Sociopath, narcissist.
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. I apologize. But I mean I just think he's not a good human being. And I -- and what strikes me about this like what you heard from Eric, what you heard from Dana, is nobody gives approval for a story. Now, Jann Wenner, who is the editor, says he was just giving quote approval.
GUILFOYLE: Wenner.
WILLIAMS: Wenner just giving quote approval.
GUILFOYLE: Or Wenner.
WILLIAMS: Whatever you like.
GUILFOYLE: (Inaudible)
WILLIAMS: But I don't think -- I think that what they were after was a scoop, and I think this scoop has backfired on them.
TOM SHILLUE, THE FIVE CO-HOST: I don't know. I mean like you said.
GUILFOYLE: We're talking about it.
SHILLUE: They're going to get the eyeballs and I don't think they have -- they don't have any journalistic ethics, anyway, and I think that's been out the window for some time, so all they care is they get attention for the article .
GUILFOYLE: Right.
SHILLUE: And they're going to continue to have some readership. Matt Damon says he has a subscription. It's going to be on his doorstep any minute.
PERINO: But Kimberly, is he -- are there -- is there any possible charge that can be brought against Sean Penn or the magazine or is it -- that's just .
GUILFOYLE: I think that would be -- put it this way, really? No. But you would think there should be some kind of repercussion for people engaging in that.
BOLLING: In Time interview, Osama bin Laden, I think -- so I think there is a precedent set for journalists going after high-level criminals or people, wanted people, and not being prosecuted for it. I mean I have no problem him doing that .
GUILFOYLE: Like it's .
BOLLING: My problem is he condoned for "El Chapo" -- basically he condoned what "El Chapo" was doing and he said it's based on business.
WILLIAMS: Well, my problem is -- here's my problem. He's making a hero in Rolling Stone out of this guy. Let's not -- for me, he is glorifying him. And I got to tell you I interviewed drug lords -- American drug lords, but I did it in prison. I go to the prison and talk to them. I don't want to talk to people while they're in the courts of conducting criminal activity. And let me just say, this has real consequences on the streets of America. There is no question people die, but what about the corruption of public officials, what about the killing of enemies and the drive-by shootings? You know, he can sit there and pretend to be Mr. Scarface, but this guy is a murder.
GUILFOYLE: OK. Let's see what the reaction is in Hollywood because Sean Penn is a well-respected actor, he's got a lot of awards, but here's somebody who has as well, Matt Damon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT DAMON, HOLLYWOOD ACTOR: It's nothing new actors going and seeking out meetings like this. It's part of, you know, what we do to do our job really well, and Sean somehow figured out that he had an audience, I assume, with this person, and I'm sure was pursuing something creatively and thought a meeting with him would be valuable, so he did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. So he didn't seem 100 percent comfortable in his .
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Well, remember who Sean Penn's other friends in the world are, you know, Hugo Chavez, Raul Castro, the Castro brothers.
GUILFOYLE: Well, were you that surprised? That's 100 percent -- I thought about it like, "Oh, come on. Of course. He was like buddies with Chavez." So this isn't like -- to me it wasn't that shocking that Sean was able to go in.
PERINO: But at least those are leaders of other countries. "El Chapo" is responsible -- directly responsible for the death and the heartache and distress of so many people. I do think that the Mexicans, I hope, will recognize that extradition is in their best interest as well. They don't need to be embarrassed again by a disruption. And I think it will be better for their country. They can focus on other things if they got "El Chapo" into the United States.
GUILFOYLE: Well, that's the right thing to do so and I think it's -- further, you know, in terms of establishing relations back and forth and communication between the United States and Mexico to respect the laws, honor the laws, honor this extradition agreement and treaty and move forward with it.
WILLIAMS: You know what's striking to me? I'm sort of perplexed by this. The left, and especially Hollywood's, preoccupation with drug lords and drug dealers. I mean Scarface still is. You can walk down the street.
GUILFOYLE: And guns.
WILLIAMS: Yes and guns. But you can -- and what it can do to people, right? And you can walk down the streets of New York and they still T-shirts with Scarface and his famous saying, "My little friend."
SHILLUE: Well, not just Scarface. It's any of these -- any strongman that gives America a hard time. These are the elite in this country, and people like Sean Penn, they glorify anyone who is bad for the United States because they don't like the United States.
GUILFOYLE: They don't?
SHILLUE: I think it's that simple. They don't -- they don't -- they don't think America is good in anything. And when they talk about the drug lords, it's always America's fault. It's not the fault of these poor drug lords. You know, it's that America needs the drugs and he's just supplying them.
WILLIAMS: Well, no, the argument -- this is why I think for me it's sort of compounding because look the argument on the left is, "Oh, America has an unrequited appetite for drugs." Obviously, that's true. But then did that that justify .
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Yes. But then did that justify you saying that the person who is selling and spreading this poison is to be glorified? We make them into a movie and make them into a hero? I just don't see it.
GUILFOYLE: This is where, you know, Eric, the free market will speak, whether or not people want to see a movie like this, but in the end .
BOLLING: Let's just talk about the Damon comment right there. I think the beginning of that was completely wrong. There is history of actors going after the story, which is a mistake. Actors should go after the movie or the part or the role. And I think Dana is right, he was probably there not necessarily to get a story about "El Chapo" or what his life was about but to learn what he was like so he can play "El Chapo" in the movie and stay with that. But what happens is when Rolling Stone publish it like -- it publishes it like it's a journalistic piece, they're doing a disservice to everyone. It's not. We don't know what "El Chapo" cut out of that piece. Now, Rolling Stone says, "Oh, he didn't change anything." How do you know?
PERINO: Right.
BOLLING: Rolling Stone has a history of lying about stuff.
PERINO: Right.
BOLLING: Maybe he changed completely what the narrative was. We don't know.
WILLIAMS: You know, most of the stories actually is about Sean Penn's trip. I mean it's not even about .
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAM: Yes.
BOLLING: Then there should be no problem. It's when it's supposed to become, you know, the guide -- under the guise of journalism that I have a problem, and everybody else should, too.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I just think it's pretty awesome that there was surveillance that was going on that nailed Penn that nailed "El Chapo." I mean that's kind of good.
GUILFOYLE: That's amazing. You like that, D?
PERINO: I like that.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: And then I harken back to a time -- a gentler time, a simpler time, when we had Sean Penn playing Jeff Spicoli on Fast Times at Ridgemont High TV days. Remember those days?
PERINO: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: And now, "El Chapo." Ahead, a major announcement is coming shortly on Thursday, Republican presidential debate, that and some brand new results are out has positions changed as the Iowa caucus is near.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Next Republican presidential debate is just three days away. We're just two hours away from the big announcement by the Fox Business Network on the lineup. Lou Dobbs is going to reveal which candidates will appear on the 6:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. Eastern stages at 7:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on his show, so don't miss that. The stakes keep getting higher though. In the first vote -- I'm sorry -- the first vote in Iowa is just three weeks away. A brand new poll from Quinnipiac shows Trump and Cruz neck and neck at 31 and 29 percent, Marco Rubio in third place at 15 percent. And in New Hampshire, Rubio is in second place right now according to a new Fox News poll, Cruz in third, and Trump with a commanding lead of 33 percent. Juan, we'll give you late in the game here, three weeks away in a day, it doesn't seem to be changing much.
WILLIAMS: So political people around Washington and the nation, when they talk about this, they don't know what to say because everybody is kind of bullocks and say, "Wow, who would have guessed this? Where did this come from?" But they come down to this, the Trump people actually go to the polls, they go into the caucus, so they stand in the cold Iowa gym for three hours in order to caucus for Trump, or is it the case that Cruz has people so well organized or even someone like Rubio that they might -- but it all comes down to, are Trump supporters really going into the voting booth or are they going to others?
BOLLING: KG, the one thing that's jumped out on that last Quinnipiac poll is Trump 31, Cruz 29. That's 60 percent between the two of them. That's almost two-thirds of the votes.
GUILFOYLE: That's pretty commanding. And then so, it's going to come down to who has a great, you know, ground game, and that's really what we've seen historically in Iowa and New Hampshire, who's got that team, you know, GOP be like, get out the vote, motivated, focused, organized, who is going to like pick up the people, put them in a van, put them where they need to be. It seems to me Cruz has a pretty good ground game, you know, and you hear a lot about it.
What is Donald Trump's ground game like? What we do know is he has lots of enthusiasm in terms of people being very excited, passionate about his candidacy. So these are also people that are going to make sure to get out there, that their views, their vote is counted.
BOLLING: Does -- I'm sorry. Dana, does Iowa -- does Iowa matter a lot?
PERINO: Of course. And I think it's going to be a really long night because I think everybody's ground game is pretty good for themselves, and I do think the Trump crowd will come out and they've got -- and Bill Kristol wrote in Weekly Standard that he was actually very impressed when he was on
the ground there a couple of months ago and everywhere he turned there was a very professional Trump staff on the ground.
GUILFOYLE: Wow.
PERINO: But I also think three weeks is a very long time form Ted Cruz to be the frontrunner. And if you think about in 2008, 30 percent of people made up their mind on who to vote for -- four days after the last debate. So on January 28th will be the last debate being hosted by Fox News. In 2012, people didn't make up their minds -- 46 percent of people didn't make up their minds until that time. So, while we're getting close to it and these three weeks matter so much, I'm actually more interested because these polls have been very stable. I'm really interested in what's going on with Hillary Clinton and New Hampshire and Iowa. She is losing in New Hampshire still, and in Iowa, she is close to losing. And if Bernie Sanders can turn out college kids, she actually could lose in Iowa.
GUILFOYLE: I agree.
PERINO: And I think that Bernie Sanders' team in terms of his ground game, excellent, and I think his staff wants to win maybe more than he does, and so she could be looking at an upset.
BOLLING: All right, Tom, stay right there, because I want to talk about this in a new TV ad. Hillary Clinton is attempting to convince voters the politics of the Republican opponents are dangerous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think about it.
DONALD TRUMP, 2016 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would bomb the [BEEP] out of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of these Republicans .
TED CRUZ, 2016 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Carpet bomb them into oblivion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: could actually be president.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, 2016 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sit down and shut up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And acting their agenda.
JEB BUSH, 2016 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we should repeal ObamaCare.
TRUMP: Their wages are too high.
CRUZ: Defund Planned Parenthood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're backward, even dangerous. So ask yourself, who is the one candidate who can stop them? Hillary Clinton, tested and tough. To stop them, stand with her.
HILLARY CLINTON D, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Hillary Clinton and I approve this message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Mrs. Clinton -- she's also addressing the criticism from Donald Trump and a lot of others that her husband's past is fair game to bring up in the race. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON: If he wants to engage in personal attacks from the past, that's his prerogative. You know, so be it. I'm going to draw the distinctions between where I stand and where he stands when it comes to equal pay for women, raising the minimum wage. He can say whatever he wants to about me. Let the voters judge that. But I am not going to let him or any of the other Republicans rip away the progress that women have made.
It's been fair game going back to the Republicans for some years. They can do it again if they want to. That can be their choice as to how to run in this campaign. Didn't work before, it won't work again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: I'm not so -- then maybe it didn't work before. I don't remember
her being the nominee last time. Go ahead, Tom.
SHILLUE: Well, that ad -- not a bad ad because, you know, it showed the -- it got better at the end there. At the beginning, when they're talking about carpet bombing and he's saying, sit down and shut up, I think a lot of Republicans watched and I think that.
GUILFOYLE(?): Yeah.
SHILLUE: I like those -- the first three guys.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
SHILLUE: Though Republicans like that kind of spirit.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE (?): Yeah, thanks to the ad.
SHILLUE: I like that fight.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO (?): They feel ObamaCare.
SHILLUE: That's why .
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
SHILLUE: Yeah and that's why Cruz and Trump are doing well, because of the perception that they're fighters, something they don't think Republicans have done in the past. But you know what's interesting, and I just noticed it about that ad, is that there's no sound bite of Hillary Clinton. It's all a sound bite of Republicans, and then in the end, it's just pictures of her talking to people, because when we played that tape of her, it's hard to find a sound bite of Hillary that makes you want to vote for her.
So, you know, I'm sure that her campaign.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Because she disappears, where is Waldo (ph) .
(CROSSTALK)
SHILLUE: They are moving and so we got to get a clip of Hillary.
PERINO: There the HRP (ph).
SHILLUE: And they couldn't find one.
BOLLING: Did she put out the Bill Clinton fire, yes or no?
GUILFOYLE: No, no. She -- it's like a Duraflame log. You can relight it like six times.
(LAUGHTER)
But the things is -- it's like -- that .
(LAUGHTER)
Yeah? Right? I've done it. And here's the thing, good value.
BOLLING (?): How do you put out a Duraflame?
GUILFOYLE: You never really do. It just stays with you like it just didn't.
BOLLING (?): Smolders (ph) for a walk .
GUILFOYLE: Exactly.
BOLLING: Always hot.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, if your doorman watches it for a while, you go to work .
BOLLING: Right.
GUILFOYLE: You come back. It's still game on, smores (ph). No, that ad just excited me, like, yeah, yeah. OK, good. That ad is helpful, I think, to motivate the Republican base. Thank you for spending your money to help our team.
PERINO: Well, that - but, again, I go back to Hillary has a Bernie Sanders problem. That ad was directed at Republicans and that's going to be the playbook. They're going to say Republicans are scary, but women should look out because they're going to turn back the hands of time, and women are going to be, you know, barefoot and pregnant, again, in the kitchens and not allowed to anything that they can -- have achieved.
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is moving up in the polls, and so I don't understand why don't ever see her try to take him on because it's actually getting perilous.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just tell what I think .
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, he's moving on up.
WILLIAMS: Bernie Sanders is close to her. She said, I think within three points in latest polls in Iowa, and he's winning in New Hampshire.
PERINO: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But after that it's all Hillary.
SHILLUE: It gets ugly.
WILLIAMS: And there's no way. So, I think Hillary is already running
against the Republicans, and I think that ad .
PERINO: I see (ph) you.
WILLIAMS: …was pretty effective because, again, the logic among Democrats is, well, we don't know about Hillary. Look at her trustworthy numbers, all the rest .
GUILFOYLE (ph). They're not weak (ph).
WILLIAMS: But when it comes down to comparing Hillary to people who are like can tell you about carpet bombing them to .
PERINO: ISIS?
WILLIAMS: Oh, my God. They -- you don't want to.
PERINO: You don't want to carpet bomb ISIS?
WILLIAMS: People don't like that. Can we just .
PERINO: We want to carpet bomb a lot of people .
BOLLING: We're going to send (ph) you a very quick with the quick thought after the sound bite. How can Republicans beat Hillary? Stay away from the mushy metal according to Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: There are a lot of Washington political consultants that argue every election cycle. The way for Republicans to win is run to the mushy metal. Run like candidates that's Democrat-light. And every time we do it, we get clappers.
If we nominated other candidate in the mold of a Bob Dole or John McCain or a Mitt Romney, and all three of those are good honorable decent men who love this country but what they did didn't work, and by the way, in the purple state? All three of them got clobbered in the purple states. I think 2016 is going to be an election like 1980 that we are going to win by painting in bold colors, not pale pastels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right. Quick around the horn (ph) target their base.
SHILLUE: Yes, I was just talking to a Democrat this morning and they said, "You know, who I think would win is the Kasich. He would do great against." And I said, "You know, the Democrats think that," but Republicans would absolutely stay home. He's right. We're done with the mushy metals.
BOLLING: Join Trump (ph).
PERINO: You look at them on favorability on Trump, Cruz and Clinton? They're really -- it's really bad. So, how do you broaden that support in the next few weeks or months?
BOLLING: How do you do that second base?
WILLIAMS: You know, I just don't think that -- that people can expect somehow that that kind of anger coming from the Republican base. It will --it will motivate Republican votes. But it's not going to attract independents and it's definitely not going to attract any Democrats.
PERINO: Do you think you must angry.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I don't know first base. I think -- it sounds like.
WILLIAMS: Oh,yes, like I said, oh.
BOLLING: Every Republican is.
WILLIAMS: No mushy metal.
BOLLING: Beating hard.
WILLIAM: No hard.
BOLLING: Every Republican is beating Hillary head to head and may even Trump is close to tying her.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I loved this. I mean, Trump sounds, you know, blast amount and so like the dark ages. That's what she needs to seize (ph) the victory and I loved that on first base. You know, that I play first base.
BOLLING (?): I do not.
GUILFOYLE: Four years, captain of the team, you know it, go Mercedes (ph) and you see Davis (ph).
BOLLING: Straight ahead. Some more troubling news for Hillary Clinton. The FBI has expanded some investigation beyond her e-mail use to look for evidence of possible corruption. They know the details.
GUILFOYLE: Come about (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Hillary Clinton trying to put out a new fire over her e-mails. She's now denying she directed a former State Department staffer to violate laws on the handling of classified material.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: As the State Department has said, there was no transmission of any classified information. So it's another effort by people looking for something to throw against the wall, as you said in the beginning of the program, to see what sticks, but there is no "there" there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Meanwhile, the FBI's investigation of Clinton's private server use has just expanded again. Sources tell FOX News the agency is now looking into whether she violated public corruption laws, if she commingled any of her Clinton Foundation work with State Department business.
Eric, we want to start with the fact that there is an e-mail which she sends to a staffer saying, "Remove the classified headings and send me the document." And now she says that's not what's up.
BOLLING: Let's start with something we've been talking about here for the past six months, is that she probably did commingle the Clinton Foundation stuff.
Start from the top. When they left, when Bill and Hillary left the White House, they took furniture with them. They haven't returned it. True or not true?
PERINO: True.
Bolling: True. She lined up foreign governments to make donations for the Clinton Foundation in the form of Bill Clinton will come over and speak, and we'll donate to the Clinton Foundation. True or not true?
PERINO: True.
BOLLING: Donated money to charity. Almost $2 million that she said that the Clintons -- I think they filed jointly -- donated to charity. Three million total -- I mean, I think 1.8 million went to the Clinton Foundation, which they used to...
PERINO: Fund their lifestyle.
BOLLING: ... fund their own lifestyle. True. Six billion dollars. They're still looking for $6 billion that went missing during her time at the State Department. True.
And the last one, she said she was broke just before signing an $11 million book deal...
GUILFOYLE: Dead broke.
BOLLING: ... and buying a $2 million estate.
GUILFOYLE: Dead broke.
BOLLING: The Clintons are greedy. They're greedy. True or not true? That's true. That's my opinion, but that's also the truth.
GUILFOYLE: Gosh, Bolling, you're so insensitive. Billionaire lives matter.
BOLLING: But I do think they're breaking the rules. If not, the laws are certainly breaking protocol, for sure.
PERINO: The State Department issue, the commingling of these two issues, the State Department entities, State Department official business, and the Clinton issue, as I recall, Juan, are the things that bother you the most. They have the appearance of a problem, and now the FBI has expanded the investigation to include that.
WILLIAMS: I think that is the problem. I was reading in the notes about how George Thoreau, who is a millionaire, was having influence about who the State Department would select they're aging overseas. And then, of course, he's interacting with Bill Clinton and the Foundation.
I think there is an ethical problem. I don't think there's any getting away from it. Is it illegal? I don't know, because I don't know what firewalls that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton may have set up so that they have some defense. I have not read about that.
BOLLING: Can I just throw something in very quickly, what we just talked about, about the donations? Can you imagine if Juan Williams set up Juan Williams Foundation and wrote off half of your income, because you donated to the Juan Williams Foundation and then spent the Juan Williams Foundation money to support your lifestyle?
GUILFOYLE: He'd be in jail, jail.
PERINO: Kimberly, if Hillary Clinton was your client and the client was looking at the FBI and was worried about an FBI investigation as it was, and they get the news that it's expanded.
Are they worried, or do they think that the government will never indict Hillary Clinton, so it doesn't matter?
GUILFOYLE: No, like, "Who do we have to pay off?" Just kidding.
I would be concerned and really try and put together a serious defense for her, because now it's two-track. So this is very -- I think that she's got a big problem. I can't believe that they would just whitewash this, look away -- Whitewater -- and not even prosecute her.
I'm hoping that justice prevails here. And she should -- if this was anybody else, they would go down for this. I mean, it's really unbelievable that there are two different, you know, paths for justice, especially where the Clintons are concerned.
SHILLUE: Anybody else or just Republicans?
GUILFOYLE: Anybody else what?
SHILLUE: Or just Republicans?
GUILFOYLE: Well, no, I mean, depending.
PERINO: Can I pull up this poll just to show this and see, Tom, what you think. This is from Rasmussen.
Should a candidate stop campaign if charged with a felony? Split, 46 to 47. You remember when Hillary Clinton said in that sound bite, she said the Republicans have tried it before, and it didn't work? What she was talking about was the attacks about Bill Clinton and impeachment and that he goes on to win reelection.
I think, if she was indicted, she would probably just go ahead and continue to run.
SHILLUE: I mean, that 47 number, that comes up again and again, because 47, remember 47 percent with Mitt Romney. There's 47 percent of the country is going to vote for Hillary, no matter what. And it's not going to move anybody.
I mean, Juan, you said you were concerned, right, that it concerned you, but probably not enough to not vote.
WILLIAMS: No, it's just like that ad we were talking about earlier. I thought that was an effective ad for Democrats and independents. Republicans.
SHILLUE: It's -- I mean, people don't care. There are so few people...
PERINO: I care.
SHILLUE: You care, but you don't like Hillary already. See, the people who like Hillary...
GUILFOYLE: No, but it's not arbitrary or capricious. She doesn't like her, because she's unethical and she's unfit to lead and serve this country.
SHILLUE: Halleluiah. Forty-seven percent of the country is going to -- they're going to go with Hillary, no matter what.
BOLLING: Here's the bottom line in all of this. Even if the FBI finds something, it's up to the DOJ to prosecute.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
SHILLUE: No.
BOLLING: Guess what? There's a good chance that they won't. Does anyone think they will do it?
PERINO: ... Trump, Krauthammer, like the other night. On the Bret Baier show on Friday night they were like, well, that will ever happen, because it's clear that she's guilty. But I think that we have to have some hope, because it should be...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: But wait a second. Wait a second. Jim Comey, Dana?
PERINO: No, I just hope that the evidence leads where it goes.
WILLIAMS: But I think you guys are hoping something can take down the great Hillary. But I think, by the way, Jim Comey?
PERINO: Check it out. Guess what? We got to go.
WILLIAMS: If Jim Comey quits, aren't you going to say there's something being covered up.
PERINO: If you had a hard time hearing that last segment on the Golden Globes last night, it's not because your TV was not working. A good chunk of it had to be censored with all the swearing goes on. The low lights, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SHILLUE: There's usually a lot of drinking going on at the Golden Globes. Last night there was a lot of cursing, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONAH HILL, ACTOR: This ribbon is for honey awareness.
CHANNING TATUM, ACTOR: Is there something going on with honey? Is there something going on with honey in the world?
HILL: No, honey is just (AUDIO GAP). And, so...
JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: What do people usually call you?
AMY SCHUMER, ACTRESS: Usually they just call (AUDIO GAP).
JAMIE ALEXANDER, ACTRESS: We can forget about that. Dude, who's typing (AUDIO
GAP).
RICKY GERVAIS, HOST, GOLDEN GLOBES: Can I ask you a question?
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: Go ahead.
GERVAIS: I think we all want the answer to this. (AUDIO GAP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHILLUE: So much beeping. We didn't hear half the show, right?
GUILFOYLE: Well, they got a good time.
SHILLUE: Yes, they were all having a good time. What's going on?
SHILLUE: Except the subject of Ricky Gervais' jokes. Do you think he was nice?
BOLLING: My wife made me sit through three hours of that. And literally, when Ricky Gervais came out halfway and said, "Oh, my God, another hour and a half." I was like, yes, exactly. My thoughts exactly.
The bad news for the Golden Globes is that the numbers were down. They were down 5 percent from the year before. I think they were the lowest in several years, and that's -- my guess is because those arrogant actors dropping F-bombs and S-bombs, getting bleeped and it was annoying. It was frustrating, but we still watched it.
SHILLUE: Yes. I mean, it's for them, isn't it? It shows that they're edgy.
BOLLING: I guess.
PERINO: They need some corny jokes.
SHILLUE: Yes! You've got to teach them. You've got to publish a book, "Dana's Corny Joke Book."
PERINO: I kind of steal those from other people.
SHILLUE: Kimberly, you liked Sylvester Stallone?
GUILFOYLE: I didn't like it. I loved it. I loved it. I liked the movie "Creed." I liked it better than "Star Wars." Yes, that's correct.
Because the force was with me when I was watching "Creed." I love boxing. His performance was A-plus. If you guys haven't seen it?
PERINO: No, I want to, though.
GUILFOYLE: It's amazing.
SHILLUE: I thought it was a wait-for-video one. You're saying it's fantastic?
GUILFOYLE: I don't know who you've been hanging out with.
SHILLUE: I mean...
PERINO: Who waits for video anymore?
SHILLUE: You know, wait for download. I'm not going to go to the movies
and see...
GUILFOYLE: I thought it was a great move, but I also box and I don't know. I thought Sylvester Stallone was kind of tough. Great guy.
SHILLUE: Juan, America Ferrera and Eva Longoria, they were doing their...?
WILLIAMS: I like that, and that's something that you could see on TV, which was they were talking about Latina stereotypes in America. I don't know if we have the tape, but it's worth watching. It really was funny.
SHILLUE: Are we showing a clip here? We're talking over it, right?
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, what she says, I'll quote here her. She says, you know, "Neither one of us is Rosario Dawson, not Salma Hayek." You know, I mean, you stop and think about it, a lot of these people, you know, it's just not fair, I think, to stars that aren't Latinos. But that's true, and I thought that was funny.
GUILFOYLE: This was similar to the Golden Globes. So we couldn't hear it at home, and now they can't hear it when we're playing clips.
SHILLUE: Juan, do you suggest we can't tell them apart?
WILLIAMS: Yes, I think that's pretty funny.
SHILLUE: I was offended as the guy who can't tell them apart.
Dana, were you tweeting it?
PERINO: I was not, but here's my -- I have a theory. Want to hear it?
SHILLUE: Yes.
PERINO: So I think one of the reasons the numbers are down, it's not because of the cursing or anything, it's that social media has made access to the stars a lot more immediate; and it's constant and it's every day. It used to be that I used to love to wait to watch the Oscars or the Golden Globes or the People's Choice Awards, because you didn't get to see celebrities that much. You'd see them in the movie theater but not in their real life.
And now they're in your Facebook feed, Twitter and Instagram. You know so much about a celebrity's life without having to wait and see it once a year.
SHILLUE: Good bye. Good theory. Could be that. Or it could be all those dirty words, OK, coming up.
There was a "Five" party last night at Dana's, but Juan wasn't there. He ditched his co-hosts for the Redskins game. He apparently has some explaining to do. We'll see what happens next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: The NFL playoffs got under way this weekend, and last night was a bit rough for me. My team -- and they want me to call them something here, but I just call them the Washington football team, Eric -- lost to Green Bay, so we're not going to the Super Bowl this year. Oh, boy.
But my hat's off to them. They had a great season, much better than I thought it was going to be.
Anyway, I was there with my wife and my sons, Raffi and Antonio, and we had an amazing time. But now I'm catching flak from some of my coworkers here, because I missed the big bash last night.
Dana threw a queso competition at her place with the staff and hosts.
So who won, Dana?
PERINO: Well, I did announce that I won, but you are -- you and K.G., because she wasn't feeling well over the weekend, so we -- and Tom wasn't there, so there was actually three people here who could do the contest right now.
There's two quesos in front of you. Try each one.
WILLIAMS: All right.
PERINO: And then you will decide which one is best. Juan, you've got to get a little more than that.
BOLLING: Why? That's enough for me.
PERINO: Then I actually made a chocolate cake that no one would really believe. Look, I actually made a chocolate cake.
Whoops.
He'll still eat it. Don't worry. OK. Is it amazing?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, but these are two different.
PERINO: One has meat in it.
GUILFOYLE: Con carne.
PERINO: Both have meat.
GUILFOYLE: Which one has meat in it?
WILLIAMS: The first one doesn't taste like it has meat. The second one definitely has meat.
PERINO: OK. So in terms of queso, which one do you like better?
GUILFOYLE: Hold on.
SHILLUE: I like No. 1, this one.
PERINO: No. That's No. 2.
WILLIAMS: I like No. 1, I think.
SHILLUE: I like No. 2.
PERINO: K.G. K.G., it's up to you. You are the tiebreaker.
BOLLING: For just the table, though. The vote was overwhelming.
PERINO: That's true.
She's going to have one more bite.
Well, we had a lot of fun. It's always fun to get your co-hosts together and the staff together on a weekend. Eric there was. Greg Gutfeld there was with his wife, Elena. Adrienne couldn't make it. Some of the most amazing people.
SHILLUE: It's got to be two. It's got to be two.
PERINO: I don't know. What do you say?
WILLIAMS: What do you think of the party? Was it a great party?
PERINO: I had a great party. It was fun.
All right. OK, K.G.
GUILFOYLE: No. 1 is like an appetizer type of thing.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: OK.
PERINO: Queso.
GUILFOYLE: The feel-good appetizer queso. No. 2 is more like a meal in your mouth.
BOLLING: Which one is it? You have to vote.
PERINO: It's a queso contest.
GUILFOYLE: So what is that? Are you trying to sway me towards one?
PERINO: I'm just saying, when you go to a restaurant and you order queso, which part of the menu do you order it off of?
GUILFOYLE: You would go to order the queso on the first part. Numero uno.
PERINO: Not that I was trying to sway the jury.
But yes, that was mine. Porter Berry is our producer. He's from Oklahoma, and he puts a lot of meat in mine. I thought K.G. would like mine, because I had Italian sausage and bacon.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
PERINO: There's bacon in there.
GUILFOYLE: I've got to tell you something. These are both so outstanding. I will invite you both to any party I have, as long as you cook and bring something to eat. Otherwise, the guests will starve.
WILLIAMS: Wow. You know what? Porter's was more like a guy's queso.
GUILFOYLE: No, but Porter's is like...
SHILLUE: Didn't I like Porter's?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, you're like a guy. Oh, you just got back your man card.
PERINO: What about the chocolate cake?
GUILFOYLE: Let me just tell you something. That's like a meal, though. No. 2 is like you could eat that, and that's that. Like, because it's very meaty. It's like hearty. Like a manwich.
WILLIAMS: By the way -- by the way, here's the thing. If I had come to Dana's party, I would have eaten much better than I'd eat at any stadium in America. The food at most stadiums not that great.
The second thing to say is but I was with my sons. It was the first time I took Tony and Raffi to a football game, and it was for -- I mean, Washington doesn't get into the playoffs very often.
BOLLING: You wore the jersey I got you of the Washington Redskins.
WILLIAMS: I did. Thank you. I wore your jersey.
BOLLING: There it is. Juan put on...
WILLIAMS: So, you know what, because Joe Gibbs was the former coach runs a charity called Youth for Tomorrow. And he signed that football for Delice. And I got an old Redskins helmet for Christmas one year. So I got excited over the game, Eric, and I wore your jersey. Thank you.
PERINO: Tom just said that mine is better. Tom just said mine's better. OK.
GUILFOYLE: Tom wants to get invited to your house in South Carolina.
PERINO: That's what that is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." And we have "One More Thing" from a big fan and friend of "The Five," Suzanne Somers. And this is very timely. Because she heard us talking about making -- what, Dana? -- quinoa. And she said, listen, let me help "The Five" out. All right? And now we're going to help you out, because Dana will give you her queso recipe. And maybe our executive producer, Porter, will, as well.
So she sent this. This was last Wednesday. She sent -- we were discussing Tom Brady's family diet, and we talked about this. And Bolling, you know, you were saying what does she like to make? She says she likes to make it. So she sent this video to show us, to educate us in culinary cuisine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE SOMERS, ACTRESS/ENTREPRENEUR: Heard you yesterday say that none of you knew how to make quinoa. And for being some of the smartest people, I know I thought that you should know how to make quinoa. It's so easy.
You take two cups of water. OK. You put a cup of -- I like to use organic quinoa. Turn on the gas. Include a pinch of sea salt, and you bring it to a boil. Then you let it sit covered for 15 minutes. That's it. That's all you have to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Very helpful.
PERINO: She's assuming I have 15 minutes. Just kidding. Thank you. I'm going to try that.
GUILFOYLE: It's fantastic. I mean, I love all her products. The
Thighmaster to now this recipe. I mean, it's all you need. Because I was, like, relying on Starbucks for this. So thank you so much, Suzanne.
All right. Eric.
BOLLING: So very quickly the Powerball is up to $1.4 billion right now, and that's up from 700 or 800, 900 million the last -- no one won. Probably go up to 1.5 billion. But check it out. Go ahead, take this shot right here. Camera two. Snapchat me, tell me what you want to do with your $1.4 billion if you win. By the way, Snapchat, speaking of Snapchat, the White House -- check that out -- is now on Snapchat.
PERINO: Thank God.
BOLLING: See it there. There it is. You can Snapchat the White House. Maybe the snap -- maybe the White House will Snapchat us. Let us know what you want to do with it.
GUILFOYLE: Dream on.
PERINO: As long as it disappears they might.
BOLLING: That's right. Hillary Clinton.
All right. So Mediaite, they do this little sexy anchor thing, and somebody at this table was offended that they weren't included. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHILLUE: What about me? It seems my submission didn't get in on time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: That's pretty funny. And Mediaite apologized, because obviously...
GUILFOYLE: You had great music. And yes, I'm sorry that they chose me instead of you.
SHILLUE: What am I going to do?
OK. I did a video for Prager University. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHILLUE: Sticks and stones really was a powerful bit of philosophy to a kid. That's one of the great things about being a parent. You can spout cliches until the cows come home, and yet, to your child, it's all new. You come off as one of the great thinkers in western culture, but does
anyone really say sticks and stones anymore?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHILLUE: It's great. Check it out at Prager University.
Juan, go ahead.
WILLIAMS: There's a study out that shows that people over 65 don't get sarcasm. Pretty soon that's going to be me. We take it too literally, apparently. Gee.
PERINO: OK.
WILLIAMS: What a bunch of geniuses.
PERINO: Bye-bye, Juan.
GUILFOYLE: Set your DVRs. "Special Report" is next.
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