Democrats target Trump after release of Mueller memos

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Democrats target Trump after release of Mueller memos

President Trump's critics push impeachment and possibility of prison time for the president after the release of Mueller memos; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 10, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Morgan Ortagus, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Brian Kilmeade. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

Democrats cranking up the outrage machine and going after President Trump following the release of court memos on Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen. Party leaders now pushing impeachment, and also the possibility of prison time for the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly they'd be impeachable offenses because even, though, they were committed before -- became president, they were committed in the service of fraudulently obtaining the office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office, the Justice Department may indict him. That he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The walls are closing in on Donald Trump and his inner circle, including his family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This criminal must be brought up by the congress of the United States for impeachment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the evidence becomes so clear that you very likely have a criminal sitting in the oval office, what is the congress left to do at that point?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: President Trump fighting back saying there's no smoking gun, no collusion, and that the payment detailed in the Cohen report was a simple private transaction. Juan, I'm going to use an analogy here. Let's say Hillary Clinton --

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: You didn't asked permission.

WATTERS: Because Gutfeld is not here.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: Let's say Hillary Clinton decided to get Botox in September 2016. She paid, you know, 10,000, 20,000, whatever Botox costs. Decides she wants Botox.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Whatever it cost. I don't know what it costs. Whatever she pays, OK? And she doesn't report it to the FEC afterwards, and she's elected president, and then the Republicans find out, oh, Hillary got Botox and she didn't report it on the FEC filing and now she needs to be impeached. What would be the difference?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: The difference?

WATTERS: Tell me what the difference would be, Mr. Williams?

WILLIAMS: You know, sometimes I think it's Christmas season, I've got to be nicer --

WATTERS: Private transaction.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, is that --

WATTERS: Private transaction.

WILLIAMS: Private transaction?

WATTERS: Between her and the Botox lady.

WILLIAMS: Are you -- I mean, Jesse, we're talking here about campaign finance violation potential by individual one according to his fixer who said individual one told him to make this payment at a critical moment in the midst of a campaign.

WATTERS: The Botox would have been a critical moment.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Debate, Williams. Right before she's on TV.

WILLIAMS: Remember, I think the better analogy -- remember when she was sick and people asked her if she was sick and she didn't say, and then she was stumbling to the car? Maybe you could say, oh, we should tell people if you're sick.

WATTERS: Not a financial transaction.

WILLIAMS: But this is -- but similarly, I would say that when someone, in fact, hides relevant material from the voters, the argument is you're deceiving us --

WATTERS: Juan, if you can impeach a politician for being deceitful, we'd never have a president.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, that's a different -- you didn't say impeached. You've asked an analogous, but that's not --

WATTERS: Well, they're trying to impeach him based off --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: They're not trying anything. This is Republican politics. Oh, they're going to impeach him. No, nobody -- they're not even in power yet, Jesse.

WATTERS: Well, they're talking a lot about impeachment because we watch that sound right there. So, Dan Backer, a lawyer who does this for a living says that this is brand protection, and brand protection is not a campaign finance violation and it's perfectly legal.

PERINO: Well, I guess they could try that and see how it works. I mean, campaign finance violation, I think that's the least interesting part of all of this, partly because -- there is the over criminalization of campaign finance violations, but we do have campaign finance laws. It's just that they're not exactly clear-cut. And after John Edwards' situation, remember he was acquitted but only by a jury. That was, actually, went all the way. So the Justice Department said, look, we have to fulfill our obligation and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. But the brand protection one, I haven't heard that one.

WATTERS: That's a good one.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: You're welcome if you're watching. So the other thing -- issue too because the Democrats and the Republicans in congress, they have this big slush fund where they're paying out all these nonconsensual sexual settlements over the last ten years to the tune of, I think, you know, several million dollars. And then, this is a consensual transaction and payments were made. What's the difference?

BRIAN KILMEADE, GUEST CO-HOST: I think a couple of things going on. Whether you are all for Donald Trump or against Donald Trump -- by the way the indictment was written according to legal experts with the flowery language instead of the dry legalistic approach, it looks as though they're going after Trump, there's no doubt about it. So whether you think they should or shouldn't, let's put that aside for a second. They are going after Trump to try to say that he directed Michael Cohen because he's already said it during Michael Cohen's sentencing. They've directed Michael Cohen to make the payments. So Trump has got to think of not whether it's right or wrong and compare it to Hillary Clinton or not. It doesn't matter.

The southern district of New York is trying to take him down. Now the question is, what exactly did he deceive the American people on and get to his office falsely? Did anyone actually think that Donald Trump was the second coming of some high-level pulp? No, they knew his background. They knew what was going on. And this is no different from -- if you're in the business world and your partner doesn't like you, and then you're gonna run for office, that partner comes out and says, you know, that Brian Kilmeade, he robbed me of money. Whether he did or not, you just don't want that partner coming forward. I'm going to run for office. So you walk up to the guy and go -- or the woman you say, listen, what's going to take to put this away? I've going to run for office. Boom, you get it done. So, Michael Cohen directing -- being directed or not being directed, that's what the southern district of New York thinks it's a problem. And if he doesn't take it serious, he's foolhardy. He's got to get on the offensive here, address it directly, get legal strategy, go after it. Opinions should not matter. Don't cheerlead or boo, you just got to get -- this is the reality. This is the game.

WATTERS: It is interesting, Morgan, that now they're not trying to go after him for collusion or obstruction. Now it's just the campaign finance violation.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN ORTAGUS, GUEST CO-HOST: I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Botox analogy.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: I think that's airtight.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: Insurance should be covering that.

ORTAGUS: You know, I don't think --

WATTERS: Wait, insurance covers that?

(LAUGHTER)

ORTAGUS: I don't think impeachment over these sorts of issues worked for Clinton, politically. Like for the Republicans it backfired on the Republicans. I think it would backfire on the Democrats. Let's just think about this, if you start to have impeachment hearings in the house and then later in the senate, think about who's going to be at those hearings testifying. It's going to be Stormy Daniels. Avenatti is going to be there. I mean, think about the chaos that Avenatti ensued during the Kavanaugh hearings. I mean, some people think -- three-ring circus. Some people think that during the Kavanaugh hearings that he -- you know, the whole thing that he was doing there sort of -- you know, sort of gave the Kavanaugh a win, right? So I just think if you -- if you just take a step back and think what this impeachment hearings could look like with this whole cast of characters, it would be terrible for Democrats going into 2020. If that's what they want to do, if they want to bring Avenatti up before the congress and Stormy Daniels, I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: We're going to try to make one electable. They're trying to make him unelectable in two years.

WATTERS: Is this about sex again, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Is it about sex?

WATTERS: Yes, is it about -- are we back in the '90s? Is this all outrage about sex again? Is that the only thing driving this because the campaign finance violation reporting error, I mean, that's impeachable?

WILLIAMS: So now, I looked like an evangelical to you because they're the ones that are really dealing with hypocrisy? They're the ones that would agree with you, Jesse, it's about sex. This is about lying, Jesse.

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: The president, even after he was elected to office, said that he didn't have anything to do with a payment to any of these women.

WATTERS: So we're back to lying about sex?

WILLIAMS: No.

WATTERS: We're back to Bill Clinton in the 90's --

WILLIAMS: We're talking about lying to the American people. If you are running for the highest office --

WATTERS: You sound like a Republican in 1998.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm just telling you of who I am. I'm a Democrat in 2018 and I'm saying, as Brian said, this is a serious charge by the southern district, the federal prosecutors in New York, against individual number one, unnamed, but now widely assumed --

WATTERS: I don't think they've ever prosecuted campaign finance violations as felonies. This is never prosecuted almost ever.

PERINO: Well, it was prosecuted for John Edwards, for example. And I think -- like a lot of the people you saw in the montage earlier, they've probably would have tried to make the opposite argument --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: John Edwards didn't pay out of his own pocket. That was an actual donation.

PERINO: Then the question would be, so did he direct the campaign donor to do it for him? Like, it didn't happen. He was acquitted by a jury. But also, he wasn't President of the United States, or even vice president. So, it is murky. But I also think that -- the Democrats have a big communications problem on their hands because they have multiple audiences to talk to all at once. They have a restless base who wants to do nothing but go after the president. They have new members who say, like, wait, I just fought a really tough campaign because I want to do stuff. I want to work on health care. And I can tell you, if they go down this road of just doing impeachment, it basically takes up all the oxygen. There's no time to do anything else. And so, then what happens? People get demoralized. People want to leave. I ended up leaving the congress -- but I was looking for a way to go to leave the congress. I mean, basically, they've spent a year and half just going after Bill Clinton and it was kind of boring as a staffer because it wasn't going anywhere. So, politically, I think they've got a huge problem on the Democratic side as they decide how to go forward.

KILMEADE: Absolutely true. Obviously, if you're worried about them overstepping, you saw this weekend some of the extreme language. But it was brought up by Andrew McCarthy who went to college for a law degree, a very smart guy. He says in 2008, Barack Obama was guilty of violations to the tune of $2 million. He paid a $375,000 fine. This whole case with Cohen is $280,000. So, he should be paying a fine that should not be something about a fine, unless this new Justice Department wants to put the screws to Trump in a way they wouldn't want to put to Obama.

WILLIAMS: That's total apples and oranges situation, but I will leave it alone because we need to go to a break. But I will say, there is nothing - - what happened with Barack Obama for which he was -- it was a matter of actually overpayment, underpayment. It wasn't a matter of, oh, guess what, I'm going to take money and use it to advance my campaign without disclosing it.

KILMEADE: Ventured campaign.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's what he did. He hid the fact that he was paying money to these women.

PERINO: Unless they use the brand defense.

WATTERS: Yes. Or the Botox defense. Brand defense or Botox, both of them work. All right, be sure to tune into Hannity tonight at 9 PM, he's sitting down with White House senior advisor Jared Kushner. Wow. Up next, a chief of staff shake-up at the White House as a top Trump ally in congress ready to replace John Kelly, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: President Trump now looking for a new White House chief of staff after announcing that John Kelly will be leaving by the end of the year. The process expected to take a little bit longer after potential replacement Nick Ayers, the chief of staff for Vice President Mike Pence, announced he's out of the running. Top Trump congressional ally, Mark meadows, you see him there, now emerging as a potential replacement. The congressman saying earlier today he'd be honored to be the next chief of staff. All right, Jesse, you put your name in the ring?

WATTERS: No, my mom advised me not to do that. Said don't go anywhere near that job. As a matter of fact, my daughter said, you know, being president is not the hardest job in the world. It's being the president's assistant. I think she's right.

PERINO: There's something to that.

WATTERS: If you look at Ayers, I hear he's very good. If you look at him -- his picture, I mean, he kinda looks like a little bit of a cupcake. He's a little soft looking. I think Trump would eat him for lunch. And I don't know --

PERINO: But apparently he really likes Nick Ayers --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He could be very likable, but I don't know if he's tough enough and old enough to have that job. Look, there's a lot of sharks in this White House. You have Kellyanne. You have Bolton. You have Kushner --

PERINO: Sharks?

WILLIAMS: Sharks?

WATTERS: You have tough, strong personalities. They're really outspoken. And it's tough in there --

WILLIAMS: Whose side are you on?

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: So they're thinking about Meadows and Litzinger, I think, and Mulvaney, and Mnuchin's name. But I just think they need a political guy that has experience that can come in and defend the White House from the Democratic onslaught of subpoenas. And also try to help Trump get reelected. John Kelly is not a political guy. He got along with Trump. Ultimately, it's about personal chemistry. That is the most --

PERINO: You've spend a lot of time with the chief of staff when you're president, Morgan, and they are moving from the legislative phase of the first two years of the presidency into the political one as they prepare for reelection, as well as all the other stuff going on.

ORTAGUS: Well, I have an idea for who should be his chief of staff because I think it would be great for us at The Five. Bring back the mooch.

WATTERS: Oh.

ORTAGUS: I mean, that would be great TV, man.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: He would have been good.

ORTAGUS: He would have been good, you're right. I love Anthony. But, so, I think that you can sort of look at this as can you get a political person from congress like Meadows, or can you get a Trump loyalist someone like Whitaker. I actually really like Chris Christie because he's an interesting combination. His name has been out there both of the political because he's clearly been a governor, but also the legal so he can help him get through both the politics and the legal. I think he needs an adult in the room, and I think John Kelly was a great chief of staff from what it looks like. Had an incredible career and he commanded respect from what he did in the army, and I think that's the kind of person that the president needs.

PERINO: What do you think, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that the reason that Nick Ayers was up there was because Jared and Ivanka like Nick Ayers, and they did not like John Kelly. And, apparently, at some point the president wasn't even talking to Kelly for the last few weeks. But the president called on Kelly, I guess it was back in June of 2017 and said, hey, let's stop with all the fighting. Let's clear this place out, you know. Let's make it work. And so he was the general come to make the troops stand at attention but it didn't work - -

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Who knows. I mean, I don't know all the ins and outs. But I do think it's kind of strange, Brian, that Nick Ayers had let his name, basically, be out there for a few months and he was possibly going to be the chief of staff, and then the president, I guess, offers it to him and he's like, oh, actually, I'm not going to do it?

KILMEADE: They've said -- everyone said great things about him. The president glowing tweet, as well as Mike Pence's glowing tweets. It's got to be something --

PERINO: He's still going to be a part of the team at America First.

KILMEADE: That's got to be some with the triplets. He's got triplets.

PERINO: I know.

KILMEADE: After a while, you're not making a ton of money, you never home, no one knows that better than you. And then, you maybe just said, listen, do you want to do this for two more years? I actually have to do it. It seems to me that if Mark Meadows is his positive as he seems to be on the possibility, it seems to be his to lose. They obviously get along. My worry for Mark Meadows and for the president is the president is going to be successful if he understands what moderates think and what Democrats think.

PERINO: Right.

KILMEADE: Mark Meadows knows what President Trump thinks because they think alike. They're both conservative. They agree with the whole freedom caucus. The one person I keep in mind that would make sense would be David Bossie, because Bossie knows how to get the president to understand what's going on. He also can take a blistering and keep on digging --

PERINO: And he wrote the book, let Trump be Trump.

KILMEADE: And would you also say, Dana, that it's important to know what it's like to have incoming of investigations, he was on the offensive against Hillary Clinton. And now he'll understand what's going to be coming at him because it'll be there --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: If you have Meadows or Bossie, forget about any discussions with Nancy Pelosi, with Chuck Schumer. These guys come in and essentially they're going to reflect the hard right, the freedom caucus way of thinking. I don't think they have the capacity even to calm the waters in the White House. And believe me, that's a big issue right now. Remember, Trump went after Obama and said, oh, you can't even keep a chief of staff. In less than two years, he's had now three. And it's a 62 percent turnover rate in this White House.

WATTERS: Whoever becomes chief of staff the media is going to come after so hard and they're going to try to get him to get fired because they can say this White House has gone through more chiefs of staff than any other White House, so they have to expect that.

KILMEADE: Christie makes sense. If he gets on -- they evidently broke the ice with Jared and Ivanka. Like or not that's the way it is. And, evidently, they broke through and had an understanding. I think it'd be perfect for it. If he finds a way to do something he wasn't able to do before and that is sustained himself with the president. Remember, he had the transition team, he was in the transition team, they blew it up. And then, he looked like he was going to be attorney general and they kind of blew it off. And I'm just wondering, for him on the surface, he'd be the perfect guy because he knows how to work with Democrats in New Jersey. He also knows how to fight, my goodness --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He might not --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: -- pay cut either.

PERINO: I think they're fine.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Whoever gets the job better get a lawyer.

PERINO: All right. Well, that's good advice, Juan. Everyone needs a lawyer. Up next, government shut down fears as President Trump gets ready to face off with two of his biggest border wall opponents tomorrow. We'll tell you about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: A big meeting at the White House tomorrow, the president set to face off with minority leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. They're going to hash out border wall funding in order to try to prevent a possible government shutdown. Nancy Pelosi, though, adamant there will be no wall funding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONG. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Most of us, speaking for myself, consider the wall immoral, ineffective, expensive, and president said he promised -- he also promised Mexico would pay for it. So, even if they did, it's immoral still and they're not going to pay for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: This funding fight comes amid new signs of desperation from the migrant caravan in Tijuana. New photos show an 8-month-old baby being passed through a hole underneath the wall and into the U.S. Brian, let me start with you. What do you say when people say, you know, the president has broken his promise on the wall. And now at the last minute he's trying to force the issue --

KILMEADE: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- into a funding bill that would shut down portions of the government.

KILMEADE: He should blame the Republicans a lot, too. They haven't made it a priority because it was his priority. He should be very angry at them. Couple of things, why is it immoral to be able to control your border? And the fact is they say we'll give them 1.6 million but it's for a fence, not a wall -- was it for a fence, not a wall. That is flat out politics, people can see through it. For someone who lives in San Francisco with the region, although, she doesn't tell me exactly where she lives, I'm wondering why. She sits -- it's very brave of her to say we don't have to secure the border, it's immoral. She had that great line, why don't they just mow the lawn so they can see through the grass? So this is pure politics. I think the caravan as well as what's happening in Tijuana, the mayor coming forward, and the fact that the midterm are over shows that this isn't pure politics. This is a problem. The fact that Mattis is extending their stay shows that they're doing some good. And I think this is an issue. I thought in one way, Juan, this could be a broader issue. What do you need? You want infrastructure first up next time? Give me this now. We're in the lame duck session. We lead with infrastructure next. But Nancy Pelosi is concerned about blowing the speakership would seems to be hers.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, Dana, I listen to Brian and I'm thinking to myself, Democrats don't care about border security? They put a lot of money into border security.

KILMEADE: It used too.

PERINO: They have, and they voted for it in the past. You think, well, why do you have a problem with it now. It depends on how you want to communicate, right? So, they're setting their own narrative, and they're not leading with that foot, they're leading with the other foot. I think this meeting tomorrow is very interesting. I can imagine the strategy meetings that are happening today to prepare for tomorrow's meeting. It will be interesting to see how they come together or not for this first one. Chuck and Nancy and the nicknames and everything, I mean, can they figure out a way to work together? And maybe everything will look good in the meeting. And then, remember what happened last time, though, this is there -- the Democrats complaint. They thought they had a deal. They go back to the hill, they find out actually the deal fell apart between their ride from the White House to Capitol Hill. So they -- everybody goes in with a lot of distrust tomorrow, and it's up to the leaders. I mean, they have -- everybody gets a choice to make, and you can decide to work together tomorrow or not.

WILLIAMS: Well, let's go to Mr. Botox.

WATTERS: I don't think that nickname is going to work.

WILLIAMS: OK. I'll call President Trump because he's so good at them. But let me ask you, you're negotiating skills, the idea is the president would budge on dreamers in exchange for a deal that would give him, I guess, he's asking for 5 billion for the wall.

WATTERS: I don't think they're going to take it. I mean, they've had 25 billion for amnesty for 1.7 million dreamers, and then he said either the s-hole comment or they wanted to add on all the lottery and merit-based stuff and chain, and then the deal fell apart. So, I don't see it happening. The only chance he's going to have is in the last month. I mean, think about it. Until the congress flips, this is his last at bat in order to squeeze billions for this wall. And, if you think about it, he has a pretty high threshold for political pain. He can withstand a lot. So he could really take it to the brink and say, hey, guys, you're not going home for Christmas.

KILMEADE: December 21st.

WATTERS: We're going right to the end of this thing. And, you know, I'll take the heat in order to get this wall because I'm not going to get it until 2020. And it will rattle the markets because, you know, you have all these consumer spending going into the Christmas season. But I think it's so desperate that he might have to pull that out. Right now, Chuck Schumer still little bit -- has got some PTSD from the Schumer shutdown. Remember, he chose illegals over the vets. So he's not looking to really make waves. And Nancy, I agree, she really needs to watch her left flank because she doesn't want to give too much, right, as she assumes the speakership. This is the resistance congress.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask Morgan.

ORTAGUS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Morgan, the president seems as if he's willing to have a shutdown. I think politically, history shows that the party that is behind the shutdown gets the blame, so it's not a political winner.

KILMEADE: Except for the last one.

ORTAGUS: That's true, except for the last one, where Schumer got blamed.

I don't like it's fair to sort of -- if there is a shutdown, to blame it on this president. I think as Brian alluded to earlier, it's actually a failure of congressional leadership. If anything, the president has been clear to Republicans and Democrats in leadership in Congress --

KILMEADE: Mitch McConnell didn't want it.

ORTAGUS: -- he wanted 5 billion, right, and he didn't get it. And so really, I think what you're saying is an appropriations failure, not to get too wonky.

WATTERS: Yes.

ORTAGUS: But in August, they canceled the recess. Why? Right? In order to get all the appropriations done. They got 75 percent done. They got defense spending down this year.

But now, you've got people charging the border, and you don't have DHS funding, border security done. So I think that we really need to take a look at why does congressional leadership always let it come down to the wire on this? Well, it's because it benefits them. Because on both sides of the aisle, when it comes down to the wire, then they have more power. Then the four of them can get in the room with the president and make decisions that should be made in the regular order on behalf of the Congress.

Look, what Senator Purdue, Senator Lankford and Senator Ernst are doing to try to reform the budget process. Keep in mind, there's -- you know, there's more to it than just a shut down. It's congressional leadership trying to keep power into their hands until the last minute, to make decisions in a closed-door room without the entire Congress.

KILMEADE: Yes, I just wonder, what does -- what leverage does the president have in the lame-duck session? That's the question: what leverage? What does Nancy Pelosi have to do? What does Schumer have to do, and what they want in return? Besides to go home for Christmas.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KILMEADE: Maybe it is --

PERINO: She's not elected speaker yet.

KILMEADE: Guaranteed to do infrastructure first off in the new -- in the new year. I'm not saying I would take the deal, but that's it.

WILLIAMS: I think it's going to be an effort to try to get some things done, but I don't think giving him a wall, which everybody says is pretty ineffective, I don't see how that --

WATTERS: Everyone does not say it's ineffective.

WILLIAMS: I don't know who says it's effective except Trump.

WATTERS: Maybe you say it's ineffective.

WILLIAMS: All right. Jim Comey taking another shot at President Trump and tells Americans who they should vote for. Yes, really. That's next on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KILMEADE: James Comey unleashing a new partisan attack in his ongoing feud with President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: All of us should use every breath we have to make sure that the line stops on January 20, 2021.

I understand Democrats have important debates to have about who their should be. They have to win. They have to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: So he's not going to be voting for Trump. I have a source.

The president is punching back by calling Comey a major liar. This comes after Comey refused to answer questions and claimed not to remember or that he didn't know over 200 times in Congressional testimony on Friday.

So Dana, he goes to the 92nd Y and is very confident that he did a good job behind closed doors. But the fact is, when it comes to the dossier, when it comes to the Flynn story and others, he still has many questions, and a lot of things he didn't answer.

PERINO: I've lost track, to be honest. And I think that --

KILMEADE: Too subtle? This whole thing is too subtle?

PERINO: Well, it's always -- it's like, I have a respect for anybody who worked in government, especially in law enforcement. He's got point of view.

I do think now that he is being so partisan, that it takes away from his ability to say what a great guy he was, right, that he was being straight and narrow. He was just the FBI guy trying to serve his country.

And I also think it's pretty interesting, like, friends of mine that are Democrats, they don't like him.

WATTERS: I know.

PERINO: They don't want his advice on who they should choose for president.

KILMEADE: Right. Jesse, there's something that did stand out, is that, with Peter Strzok, very obvious. I know some of the stuff gets drilling down to deep, and people say, "I've got 20 things to do." I don't know what Republicans or Democrats are talking about.

But Peter Strzok is that guy who was text messaging with Lisa Page what a bad person Donald Trump is. He said, "Well, if I saw those text messages, I would've let him go. But I would have let him stay on the case, because he didn't show anti-Trump bias." Peter Strzok didn't show anti-Trump bias?

WATTERS: He's too biased for Mueller's investigation, but he's fine with James Comey. That's what it comes down to.

And Comey, for being such a smart person, can't remember everything, anything. Look what he said about the Clintons and FBI interview. He doesn't even know who drafted the questions. He doesn't even know if his team shared the questions ahead of time with Clinton. He doesn't know why any of the Clinton witnesses weren't subpoenaed and, you know, questioned before a grand jury. He knows nothing.

He doesn't even know who paid for the dossier. He doesn't know if the dossier was verified. He said the dossier wasn't verified before they use it for a FISA warrant and then after they use it. He also said he couldn't remember when he was briefed on the Weiner laptop material. His story changed on that.

KILMEADE: You know why, though? Because of McCabe. McCabe said -- he says a different story than Comey.

WATTERS: And that conflicts. Their testimony does.

And now he's now said -- and this changes the entire situation -- he says that they opened up a counter-espionage investigation into four Americans by the end of July 2016. That means what started the investigation?

We were told all along that it was Papadopoulos that triggered this whole thing. Now we know, at the end of the summer, four Americans were under surveillance and being investigated. What does that have anything to do with it?

PERINO: But the counterintelligence intelligence investigation started in the spring of 2015.

WATTERS: And that story keeps changing.

WILLIAMS: And not -- he made it very clear. You guys want to position this as partisan. He said Donald Trump was not one of the four. So I mean, clearly --

KILMEADE: The people that worked for him were.

WATTERS: People in his orbit were.

KILMEADE: They were working for him.

WILLIAMS: They could be, but he said it was not Donald Trump. And also he said he thinks impeachment is a mistake. It would muddy the waters. Instead, he says let's go to the election and let's be sure that we get out this person who is violating American values and standards, Donald Trump.

KILMEADE: Juan, do you care what James Comey wants?

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, he's a player in this.

KILMEADE: But what do you think? Do you think --

WILLIAMS: I did not approve of the way he handled --

KILMEADE: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- Hillary Clinton's situation by going out there and acting as if he was the attorney general. That was improper.

KILMEADE: If anyone deserves not to be heard from, it's him.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's not fair. Well, he's a big player in this and he knows a lot.

KILMEADE: He's tall. I'll give you that.

WILLIAMS: Which is why the Republicans were the one that dragged him in there, and then he made the deal of releasing the transcript. This was a Republican play.

ORTAGUS: I cringe every time he speaks publicly. And it inevitably does not go well for him. It goes bad. Right?

I mean, going back to the Hillary Clinton investigation, when he gave that highly inappropriate press conference that went beyond FBI precedent.

And what also bothers me about it is it's not just him. It's also Brennan, the CIA director. These --

KILMEADE: Making blistering comments.

ORTAGUS: The worst comments. And these positions have long been nonpartisan, right, these intelligence positions, these investigative positions.

And so my friends, who are working in these agencies, who are working in the FBI, I feel like he -- he somewhat taints their reputation by going out and doing this.

KILMEADE: You're being so nice. Somewhat taints? They're furious.

ORTAGUS: Yes, I would agree. So you know, anybody who was wondering if Comey was on a political jihad. I mean, if you're looking at these comments, if you're looking at Strzok, if you're looking at Brennan, how is an average American supposed to look at what comes out of their mouth and what comes out of their tweets and go to -- come to any other conclusion?

KILMEADE: But Dana, you got exact -- but Dana --

WILLIAMS: I will tell you a conclusion they could come to. This president is trying to undermine the credibility of the FBI, the CIA, anybody that questions his illegal actions.

KILMEADE: Because on further review, there should not be a Mueller probe.

ORTAGUS: The CIA -- wait, let's be clear. The CIA has not questioned any of his actions. They don't --

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. The CIA has confirmed that Russia interfered in this - - in the 2016 election. And Trump wants to ignore it. The CIA goes after Khashoggi.

ORTAGUS: The CIA has not linked it to President Trump.

WILLIAMS: No, they said the Russians interfered. The Russians interfered. He doesn't want to hear it. Just like he doesn't want to hear from the CIA --

KILMEADE: Hey, Juan --

WILLIAMS: -- that Khashoggi was killed by the Saudis.

KILMEADE: Juan.

ORTAGUS: It's disinformation to link the CIA to President Trump. The CIA, Pompeo and everyone has said that Russians interfered.

WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying.

KILMEADE: Let's agree to keep the CIA out of it, because they're going to be angry at us and surveil us.

PERINO: We don't need that.

KILMEADE: Dana, but Comey did get what he wanted, didn't he? He got revenge. He got his -- he got his "New York Times" story that got the Mueller -- launched the Mueller probe, through the leak. And he's got to sit back, and then he watches Donald Trump scramble, because that's the guy that fired him. So in one way, Comey is getting what he wants. He gets his celebrity status, and he gets this president investigated.

PERINO: I don't know what Comey wants. I mean, I don't know what's in his heart. I don't know what's in his mind. He doesn't even know what's in his mind. He doesn't remember.

WATTERS: Well, we do know this. He investigated both presidential candidates, a Republican and a Democrat. And whenever you ask him a question about it, he doesn't remember.

KILMEADE: I know. He's the king of England. He has nothing to do with policy. I just worked with the FBI. They gave me a pass.

All right. Eighteen minutes before the top of the hour.

Think twice about what you post online, because you could be taken down by the PC police for it years later. Those stories are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ORTAGUS: The PC police working overtime the past few days, but are they going too far?

"USA Today" being criticized for posting an article shortly after Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray won the Heisman Trophy. The report showing homophobic tweets by Murray from when he was 14 and 15 years old. He has since apologized.

And Kevin Hart also facing backlash after stepping down as host of the Oscars, following outcry over homophobic tweets he wrote between 2009 and 2011. Hart defended himself, saying people change. And he also apologized.

So, you know, Juan, what is the difference here? I think when we see this 15 -- Kyler Murray, who won the Heisman Trophy, we see him getting criticized for something that he did at 15, I think we all cringe. Right? You don't want a 15-year-old.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but how old is he?

ORTAGUS: Now?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

ORTAGUS: Well, he's in college.

WILLIAMS: I mean, it's not that long ago.

ORTAGUS: It wasn't that long ago, but that doesn't -- is there a difference between what he did at 15 and what -- and what Kevin Hart did as an adult, in your mind?

WILLIAMS: Yes, but I think that Kevin Hart made this case that he's 40 years old. So something he did 20 years ago, you have to give him some space to evolve. And of course, the culture has changed. And what's the standard has changed.

I'm more concerned with Kyler Murray, and I know a lot of the athletes, some -- the guy on the Nationals. There's a a guy on the Brewers who, you know, make racially and homophobic type comments on Twitter.

KILMEADE: Quarterback on the Bills.

WILLIAMS: Quarterback on the Bills, I wasn't aware. But I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with kind of asserting your masculinity. It's like the boys. It's like, you know, using the "N"-word and so forth. And this is because we're in the club, and we're going to say this about people. And it really is awful. And it amounts to bullying, and it's unnecessary.

And I think it's important to send a message. Hey, this is not cool stuff. I don't think you want to punish somebody or shame them in the way that people are saying USA did -- USA Today did with Kyler. But gee whiz, he's got to be an adult. He's got to grow up at some point. He's a role model to a lot of people as a Heisman Trophy winner.

ORTAGUS: So Dana, you know, when you look at Kevin Hart, he did apologize for those tweets, you know, previously. And they were not appropriate. I don't think anyone thinks they were appropriate, including him. But do you think that he deserved to have to step down as host of the Oscars for something that he had previously apologized for.

PERINO: Well, he probably realized -- I think that he probably thought he had no choice. Right? It wasn't going to end. They weren't ever going to let him up.

And so I think he probably did have to step down. For the Kyler Murray thing, I think clearly "USA Today" had probably gone through all of the tweets for all of the potential Heisman Trophy winners, and they were probably ready to go with a story about any of them, depending on who it was. And so I guess, you know, maybe you should know that's out there.

But I go back, remember to when Dan Crenshaw went on "Saturday Night Live" and he said, "Look, I don't need an apology. Let's get past -- let's have some grace." And everyone said, "Let's hold this up as a model for how we should handle it." Like, that was only two weeks ago.

ORTAGUS: You know, Jesse, go back to the Kavanaugh hearings and what he reported --

WATTERS: I always go back to those hearings. It's a great reference point.

ORTAGUS: But what he did in high school has held up as fair game in his Supreme Court confirmation hearings. So is this young man's tweets fair game for the Heisman Trophy?

WILLIAMS: There's a difference between being accused of rape and tweeting something homophobic.

Listen, Kevin Hart is funny. And the ratings were terrible at the Oscars. This would have been a big boon for the Oscars.

ORTAGUS: They should have you, Jesse.

WATTERS: They should not have me at all. I'd be booed off the stage.

Just think about if you're the type of person that notices that Kevin Hart gets selected. And what do you do? The first thing you do is you go back and you start looking for ten years' worth of something offensive and controversial. And then you put that out there, and then you see someone have to make an apology and every -- all breaks loose.

Do you feel good about yourself? Do you feel like anything positive has come of this? I don't see anything positive. I think Kevin Hart is a guy that loves everybody, and he said that. And he's apologized for it in the past. So I just think it's harmful just to go back and do that. That's why I don't tweet. I only retweet things good about myself.

KILMEADE: So you don't tweet much?

WATTERS: So I don't tweet.

ORTAGUS: It's fair game, Brian, right?

KILMEADE: Yes.

ORTAGUS: High school?

KILMEADE: Well, I don't know if it's really fair game. In Kyler Murray's case, if he shoplifted or carjacked, it would've been expunged from his record. It would have been a juvenile. That's a pretty big deal.

What he did is going at his friends, tweeting back and forth, not really realizing you've got to row up, you've got to be a role model. But he's 21 now. He was 14 or 15, then, huge difference. And he's just going at his friends in a way in which people would normally never, ever have that repeated. You walk into the woods, going to the mall. You're having some things that maybe call for conversation with your friends. Now it could destroy you or hurt your endorsements.

Hopefully, this won't hurt him. I will say this: Kevin Hart came out and said, "I apologized once. I won't again." I don't know who's going to actually take this job. Who's got the cleanest Twitter feed? And who wants to take the risk to go forward? I think that they're going to have a real problem filling anybody's shoes.

PERINO: Just have a robot do it.

WILLIAMS: You know what was --

KILMEADE: Yes, absolutely. A robot will let everybody just -- introduce the next guy.

WILLIAMS: Michael Che, who's a comedian, said they got the cleanest black comedian out there. There's one exception, but he's booked for three to ten years, referring to Bill Cosby. I thought that was pretty funny.

WATTERS: It's about intersectionality, Juan. Have you heard that phrase before?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

WATTERS: You know, gay Americans here and you have a black male here. There's a lot of intersectionality at play, and I just want you to keep that in mind when you talk about these issues. I've learned a lot about intersectionality.

WILLIAMS: Really?

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Between your face and Botox?

WATTERS: From the senator.

WILLIAMS: The senator?

WATTERS: Gillibrand taught me everything I need to know about it.

ORTAGUS: I think you're right about the sort of culture of some of these homophobic things, and kids should learn you can't say it.

So all right, everybody. "One More Thing" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: It's time now for "One More Thing." Ms. Perino.

PERINO: OK, well, this is a book I have not read yet, but I plan to. Our own Dion Baia. He's working here at FOX News. He has fulfilled a life dream. He wrote a book. It's a novel. It's called "Blood in the Streets." OK? "Blood in the Streets," it's a gripping filler. That's what he says. And suspense story.

But it's about a 1970s homicide detective. He slowly loses his mind as he's investigating the murder of his best friend's child. So it's quite good, quite personal. I'm going to be putting this on my nightstand.

KILMEADE: He's a great guy. Multi-dimensional.

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you, I read it, and I like it. You know, it really gets to gritty. I mean, I like detective novels.

PERINO: All right.

KILMEADE: Does that count as his "One More Thing."

WATTERS: Juan Williams, you're --

WILLIAMS: You guys know I'm into Christmas miracles, and I've got one for you. Last week a mom was taking her baby from Orlando to the children's hospital of Philadelphia aboard an American Airlines flight. A passenger in first class noticed the mom struggling with the infant. The little girl's lungs require an oxygen machine to help her breathe while flying.

And in an act of kindness and Christmas love, this man stood up and gave his first-class seat to the mom. Here's the mom's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELSEY ZWICK, RECEIVED FIRST-CLASS SEAT FROM STRANGER: I'm just standing there looking at him, crying, just saying, "Thank you, thank you." He just quietly and just was, like, smiling so big and was just, like, "You're welcome."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Oh, gosh. Anyway, Kelsey Zwick, that mom, then wrote a Facebook post about this miracle, and it went viral. She said, "Thank you, not just for the seat but for noticing us. It reminded me of how much good there is in this world. I can't wait to tell Lucy some day." That post shared over 160,000 times. A Christmas miracle.

WATTERS: Nice. Speaking of miracles, there was a miracle in Miami on Sunday. Pats-Dolphins game. Pats, I think, were up by about five points, and with six seconds left, look at this. Lateral, lateral, and Kenyan Drake, the running back, takes it to the house. Gronk stumbles a little bit. Wins the game on the last play. Unbelievable.

I mean, you draw that up as a -- kind of a thing that never happens. Double -- triple lateral, actually. And they come back and win the game.

WILLIAMS: What fun!

WATTERS: Yes. Well, not fun if you're a Pats fan.

Brian.

KILMEADE: There was a $300 million study feature on "60 Minutes" last night that really struck me. And everyone with kids or know people that are in their teens should look at this.

They did a 10-year study -- it costs a lot of money -- to find out the effect of the iPads and iPhones on kids brains. Guess what? It's actually prematuring thinning of the brain cortex. Kids are scoring younger -- excuse me, worse in just about every category.

And if you are more than two hours on any of these devices, you began to see the results. This is the iPhone generation. The first one to grow up with it, no matter what age, what economic income, somebody has it around you. You should be cutting kids off at a certain time.

WATTERS: It literally flies their brain.

KILMEADE: Really fries their brain, and the thing is --

WATTERS: Is that what they said? Frying your brain?

KILMEADE: By the time they get more results, they'll be onto something else in Silicon Valley. So this has got to be the intervention right now.

WILLIAMS: You notice the high-tech people don't let their kids do it.

KILMEADE: Very important.

WATTERS: Wow. That's important.

All right. Morgan.

ORTAGUS: So I had a very fun Saturday, thanks to Brian, and the "FOX and Friends" crew. They let me do my first time as a field reporter at the Army-Navy game. Many of you know. Maybe I had a lot of fun. It was absolutely freezing in that picture. It was great, even though Navy lost. I talked a lot of smack to Pete. So that didn't end well for me. There is the Army secretary and the Navy secretary there and, of course, the president was there, which is always great for the members of service in attendance. And very cool.

I also got to interview Roger Staubach, and she gave me the coin, the challenge coin that the president flipped. So that was awesome and --

WATTERS: Nice. Brian, can I be your correspondent at the Eagles game?

KILMEADE: Heisman Trophy winner played for Navy.

WATTERS: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next with Bret Baier.

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