Debate chaos: Trump, Biden square off over second faceoff

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Debate chaos: Trump, Biden square off over second faceoff

Trump pulls out of Oct. 15 debate after commission announces it will be virtual; 'The Five' react

This is a rush transcript from “The Five" October 8, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Juan Williams, along 
with Katie Pavlich, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It is 
5:00 in New York City, and this is The Five. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The American people 
have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential 
administration in the history of our country.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Harris, you are 
entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. 
Are you and Joe Biden going to pack the court? 

HARRIS: Let's talk about packing the court then. Let's talk about -- 

PENCE: Please. I just want the record to reflect she never answered the 
question. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WILLIAMS: The vice presidential candidates slugging it out in Salt Lake 
City, our reaction in just a moment. But first, the rest of the debate 
schedule now up in the air. The uncertainty starting this morning when the 
Debate Commission announced the town hall between President Trump and Joe 
Biden would be virtual, the president reacting. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to waste my 
time on a virtual debate. That's not what debating is all about. You sit 
behind a computer and do a debate. That's ridiculous. It was announced. And 
they are trying to protect Biden, everybody is. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WILLIAMS: The head of the RNC slamming the Debate Commission, accusing it 
of bias. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now, they're not following the science. They are 
saying we're going to go virtual. Biden didn't ask for that. The president 
didn't ask for that. And I will just tell you. I hope no future nominee of 
our party works with this Commission. They are a total joke. And they are 
hurting our democracy and they are impacting this election. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WILLIAMS: The two campaigns also getting into a contentious back and forth 
all day long, each accusing the candidates of not wanting to face each 
other. And now, ABC says Joe Biden will do a town hall on October 15th. 
That's the day the second debate was originally scheduled to take place. 
Dana, yeah, I think lots of people are wondering whether or not the 
president hurt himself today by pulling out of the debate when he is the 
one that needs to really, you know, redirect the campaign that's in a 
downward spiral.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: I think that remains to be seen. Let me -- I 
don't understand the Debate Commission's decision today. So we were in 
Utah. We were -- Katie and I were together. I'm sorry. You were there, too? 

(CROSSTALK) 

PERINO: You were there. You were right in front of us. So we were all -- we 
find out on the drive to the airport that the Commission just sort of like 
put it out there without any sort of communication strategy around it, 
which I found really bizarre. It was, like, hey, here is -- in a statement 
that we're just not going to do this. And then both campaigns said that 
they weren't consulted. 

And it was the decision that the CPD made. OK, so it would be good to know 
how did you come to this decision, why not talk to the candidates 
beforehand? Why not try to see if we could work something out? Even Joe 
Biden said, well, could we move it a few days later? Like, he wasn't even 
trying to say let's try to do it. Now, President Trump says I'm not going 
to do it. I think that's fine. 

I think that -- I think it would be fine if he didn't. We have all been 
doing Zoom calls. It might be weird. You know, it's weird like when the dog 
barks and things like that. But I think that it would be fine. And now that 
Joe Biden is going to do this event on the 15th, that means that President 
Trump is free to go do something else.

Like, where might he want to go to do an event on the 15th? And maybe just 
wait and just have one final debate in Nashville if that one can happen. 

WILLIAMS: Greg is waiving his hand. 

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: I know what he should do, The Five, one hour 
town hall with Donald Trump. I don't know why no one has planned or 
scheduled this. But having us with Trump would be beautiful television. We 
don't even actually need the town hall. It could be just us five and him 
would be fantastic. That's what we do October 15th.

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: Wasn't he doing that all the time when he was interrupting our 
show for those things? 

(CROSSTALK) 

PERINO: It's a good idea, Greg. And I think that we should pursue it. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: But let me finish up with the question. 

GUTFELD: Sure. 

WILLIAMS: So I was going to come to you and say but -- until the president 
releases his health documents and the doctors say that he is not 
contagious, what is the rational basis for Joe Biden saying, oh, yeah. I'm 
going to put my health at risk, or the Commission saying we are going to 
put our staff and everyone else at risk.

GUTFELD: There is a good argument for a virtual debate, although they are 
not doing it because of the good argument. They are doing it because, in my 
opinion, Pence crushed it last night, right? And this was a great way to 
steer that spiral -- that downward spiral of that event. I mean, Kamala was 
an embarrassment. And so this was a great way to change the topic. 

So it's kind of natural to be suspicious. But we all have to admit that 
when we did our remote, there wasn't less interruption. There was more, 
because you can't have eye contact and be around people. So the idea of 
having a virtual debate is going to be really hard for -- to improve upon 
anything. I think what they need to do is figure out how to have these 
people in a room safely nearby. 

They are both on the east coast, I imagine. And have a good solid ref. Have 
somebody that maybe apolitical, a Joe Rogan perhaps, somebody who don't 
know where is he going to go, but you know it's not going to be two against 
one -- whether left or right. It's just going to be down the middle. And I 
think that would be great, but I still think the town -- The Five town hall 
is the way to go. And I know he is watching. 

WILLIAMS: By the way, I'm surprised at you, because I think you'll say 
virtual stuff is the future and everybody can do it. 

GUTFELD: But you've seen how our show worked. 

WILLIAMS: I think it was fine. 

(CROSSTALK) 

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: You kept interrupting us, Juan -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: That's why Katie and Dana said I wasn't at the debate -- 

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: -- need to have space for rebuttal if you are going to do a 
virtual -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD: -- no space for that. 

WILLIAMS: No, but there would be space between these two, and I know you're 

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: All right. So Jesse, it is clear from the polling that Biden won 
the first debate. And by the way, I thought --

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: I would take issue with that. 

WILLIAMS: There's no issue. It's very clear. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: So, anyway. Let me just continue. So now, Trump has removed the 
line of attack that Biden is the one who's afraid of debate, because it's 
Trump who pulled out of the debate, so again -- 

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I think you are reading it wrong, Juan. Greg is right here. This 
is very underhanded by the Debate Commission. They dropped this bomb at 
7:30 in the morning, after Kamala got smoked, without consulting the Trump 
campaign. They didn't have to do it at 7:30 in the morning. They could have 
done it this afternoon. They could have done it tomorrow. 

Trump has a full week to get healthy, get clean, and get tested. They did 
this to take the attention away from that master class of a debate 
performance that Mike Pence put on. I didn't want to have to do this, Juan. 
But when I heard about how underhanded the Commission was, I had to do a 
deep dive into the Commission. 

WILLIAMS: Please. 

WATTERS: Would you like to hear what -- I'm going to put these people on 
blast. I didn't want to do it, but now I'm forced to. So the executive 
director, Kate Brown, Democrat donor, and the rest of them basically are 
either Democrat donors or activists, or Republicans who don't like Trump. 
And there is a long record, Dick Parsons, Republican. 

Quote, "Trump is not good for America." John Danforth, Republican, said 
Trump corrupted the Republican Party. Olympia Snowe, Republican, says Trump 
has damaged the Republican Party. You want me to keep going? Here are the 
Democrats -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: Let me finish. 

WILLIAMS: All right. 

WATTERS: I take issue with that. ABC anchor called Trump toxic. Paul Kirk 
Jr., former DNC chair endorsed Bernie, Dorothy Riding (ph) former DNC 
official, Kenneth Wollock (ph) Obama donor said Trump was hurting 
democracy. Shall I go on? 

WILLIAMS: No. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: Jesse, Jesse, Jesse, it's a mix of Republicans and Democrats. 

WATTERS: Exactly. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: -- the head of the Republican National Committee. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: That's like saying Mueller is a Republican, even though 13 of his 
gang were all Democrat Party. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: Juan, here's the point. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: They dislike Trump. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: They are quoted as saying Trump is toxic. He's and dirty and is 
damaging the country. That's not fair to the president. 

WILLIAMS: Every Republican who doesn't like Trump is now a rhino (ph). 

(CROSSTALK) 

PERINO: I don't think this commission was trying to help Kamala. I don't 
think that this morning, but I do think --

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: Well, then -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: -- fortune 500 companies. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: -- the two of you, you agree to the rules that were set by your 
campaign people. Katie?

(CROSSTALK)

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, sir. 

WILLIAMS: So the president today called Kamala Harris a monster. It 
reminded me of when he said Hillary Clinton was a nasty woman. Now, you and 
I both know suburban women -- suburban white woman, specifically are a 
audience for this campaign. Didn't he hurt himself again? 

PAVLICH: I think that question implies that suburban women are a lot more 
emotional than you think they are. I think that they believe in the 
economy. They believe in security and safety. And a lot of women believe in 
the same feminism of being treated the same way that men would be treated. 
And President Trump has called a lot of men nasty names, too. 

He said the same thing about Kamala Harris. I don't think that he treats 
her any differently. He said some things about Hillary Clinton when he was 
running against her and still won the White House. So I'm not really sure 
it will have a big impact when you are looking at whether I'm going to have 
a job in a year, versus whether I want to be upset about someone getting 
called a mean name in the game of politics. 

Especially after Joe Biden called President Trump a clown and told him to 
shut up during the first debate. So there is that issue. But in terms of 
The Five hosting the president, Mr. President, this seat is the one you can 
be in. So give the producers a call. They're waiting for you. 

WILLIAMS: Hey, wait a minute. I will take Katie Pavlich over Trump any day. 
Coming up, our reaction to all the big moment at last night's debate right 
here for you on The Five. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

WATTERS: A lot of big moments from last night's first and only vice 
presidential debate. Mike Pence getting top marks for countering Kamala 
Harris and exposing the far left Biden agenda. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

PENCE: In America, you just heard Senator Harris tell you. On day one, Joe 
Biden is going to raise your taxes. 

HARRIS: The president's trade war with China. He lost that trade war. 

PENCE: Lost the trade war with China? Joe Biden never fought it. 

HARRIS: He has referred to our men who are serving in our military as 
suckers and losers.

PENCE: Slanders against President Donald Trump regarding men and women of 
our armed forces are absurd.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WATTERS: The candidates also battling over the Coronavirus. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

HARRIS: The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of 
any presidential administration in the history of our country. They knew 
and they covered it up.

PENCE: When you look at the Biden plan, it reads an awful lot like what 
President Trump and I and our task force has been doing every step of the 
way. It looks a little bit like plagiarism, which is something Joe Biden 
knows a little bit about. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WATTERS: All right, Greg, the debate for Mike Pence, what were your 
thoughts? 

GUTFELD: I was pleasantly surprised and I was let down by her behavior. I 
always expected more from her. It seems like she regressed instead of 
improved over the last year. But I'm really grateful that Pence finally 
called out the fine people lie. Because when Kamala brought it up, he went 
straight for it and took her out. 

And it's beautiful because nobody is fact-checking it. And BBC actually 
fact-checked it and they backed Pence up. So Pence has opened the door for 
other people, and not just me and others, to talk about the transcript and 
say that this destructive lie, which has been around for three years and 
responsible for so much racial division, simply isn't true. 

And I think that was, like -- to me, that was the most important, moving 
part of the debate it. It meant a lot to me. I also thought it was funny 
when she was going after him about COVID, about his keep calm and don't 
panic stance. She brought up toilet paper hoarding. 

WATTERS: Yeah. 

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD: His point, which is toilet paper hoarding, was an example of 
panic, and why you shouldn't do it. And also, undermining the scientists, 
clearly, she is like a lot of Democrats and thinks that Trump actually 
makes the vaccine and sells it. No, if the vaccine is there, it goes 
through FDA. It goes through a process. And she clearly doesn't know that. 
She should have done her homework. 

WATTERS: Yeah. We have that sound. Lets' listen in, then Dana can react to 
that. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

HARRIS: If Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I will be 
the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that 
I should -- that we should take it, I'm not taking it.

PENCE: The fact that you continue to undermine public confidence in a 
vaccine, if the vaccine emerges during the Trump administration, I think is 
unconscionable. Stop playing politics with people's lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WATTERS: That was one of the pretty substantive attacks on what she said, 
along with some of the other energy politics and the taxes.

PERINO: The vaccine one was pretty interesting, because if they were to 
win, Biden and Harris, they then would be the recipient of the benefits of 
Operation Warp Speed. 

WATTERS: Right. 

PERINO: And then they would be the ones encouraging people to go out and 
take the very same vaccine that is being worked on now. And hopefully, we 
do have that soon. I did I think -- there were a couple of issues that have 
just been missing from any of the debates so far, immigration and gun 
control, for example. 

But on energy, I thought Susan Page did a very good job asking Kamala 
Harris about the Green New Deal. And then they get into discussion about 
fracking. And she says I want to be very clear, Joe Biden will not ban 
fracking. What I thought was very interesting is that Congresswoman 
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez then tweets, actually, fracking is terrible. 

And I thought this truce between the far left and the Biden-Harris campaign 
is a marriage of convenience until they see if they could reach their goal, 
which is to oust Donald Trump, and then you are going to see Biden and 
Harris. That administration just pulled in all sorts of directions by the 
left. 

WATTERS: What do Biden-Harris really believe about natural gas? Because we 
have plenty of tape where they say no fracking, at least three or four 
instances, and now they say oh, yeah, we will frack. I don't understand 
what they really believe. Do you? 

WATTERS: It's so clear. I mean, Biden has laid out his plan, which creates 
a division between what takes place on public lands and private lands. And 
he says no fracking on public lands, and he's not going to stop it on 
private lands. So Jesse, I don't understand. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: That's the first time I ever heard that -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: You should check out. Do a little research. I mean -- but, you 
know, to me, the big thing here is that the first half hour of that debate 
was dedicated to a discussion of COVID. And she absolutely mopped the floor 
with him. And not only did she mop the floor with him, she mopped the floor 
with Donald Trump. 

And then you guys say, oh, but he did so well because he got in this nasty 
little dig about plagiarism because the Biden plan is the same as the 
president's plan. Well, it's not. 

WATTERS: What's different? 

WILLIAMS: It's not. Biden wants a national plan. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS: What does that mean? 

WILLIAMS: He wants to have a national plan. 

WATTERS: What's that mean, Juan? 

WILLIAMS: Trump wants to leave that up to the states. 

WATTERS: What does a national plan mean? 

WILLIAMS: Let me finish. 

WATTERS: But what does it mean? 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: He says leave it up to the states. Blame the governors. Blame 
everybody -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: Biden says trust national health officials. Trust the scientists. 
Guess what Trump says -- what do the scientists say. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: And not only that, the vaccine -- the vaccine program. Guess who. 
You know, you know, Biden says let's have a vaccine program that we can 
have faith in, because we know the scientists are in charge, not the 
president's son-in-law. That's a big difference -- a big difference. 

WATTERS: Nice try. Katie? 

PAVLICH: OK. First of all, I think it's incredible that the Biden-Harris 
campaign has been able to get away with blaming President Trump for the 
death toll that Coronavirus has taken on in America, when the vast majority 
of the numbers come from New York, New Jersey, Democrat-run. 

WILLIAMS: They are not Americans? 

PAVLICH: They are Americans. But the blame in terms of the politics is not 
being placed on Governor Cuomo, nationally. It's being placed on President 
Trump when Governor Cuomo is the one who praised him at the beginning for 
all the things he was providing, the Navy hospital, building up the Javits 
Center, et cetera. We all were there. We all know what happened. 

But it is true that Biden has been one step behind what the president has 
announced. So President Trump enacted the Defense Production Act to get PPE 
produced in higher quantities here at home, then Biden comes along and was, 
like, we should do the Defense Production Act. It was invoked two weeks 
ago. He says that they need a plan for vaccine distribution. 

Well, the president, a month ago, had a press conference at the White 
House, saying the military, which is the most efficient supply chain in the 
world, is going to help supply the vaccine to the people who need it the 
most. So it's just interesting that the president is being held 
accountable. 

And on the China issue, again, Kamala Harris dodged it completely, blaming 
the president for covering up the virus when it was the World Health 
Organization and the Chinese Communist Party that was lying about the 
spread, which is why it turned into a global pandemic. So -- and just one 
more thing on the issues with the Second Amendment that they haven't 
brought up. 

You know, the questions that aren't being asked in these debates benefit 
Democrats, because the Second Amendment is not a good issue for Democrats 
at a time when Kamala Harris wants to confiscate firearms. And there are 
five million new gun owners since the beginning of this year alone. It's 
the biggest year on record, and a lot of them are in swing states. 

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD: We have riots. Gun control is a dead issue for them. 

WILLIAMS: Let me just say. You were bringing up this stuff about 
Charlottesville. 

GUTFELD: Yeah. 

WILLIAMS: Even your friend Scott Adams had to say, you know, I'm so 
disappointed the -- 

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD: -- and he was very supportive of when Mike Pence finally --

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: Oh, Scott Adams. You know, tip to Scott Adams. 

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD: That makes no sense. 

WILLIAMS: It makes sense when you don't condemn white supremacists. 

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Read the transcript, Juan. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS: -- white supremacy, go for it. 

WATTERS: Juan, come on, man. 

GUTFELD: Do I need to disavow white supremacy right now? 

WATTERS: All right. Ahead, Kamala Harris getting called out for dodging a 
key question on the Supreme Court at the debate. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

PAVLICH: Kamala Harris following Joe Biden's lead in refusing to answer 
whether Democrats will pack the Supreme Court if they win the election in 
November. VP Pence quickly calling her out. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: They would like to know if you and Joe Biden are going to pack the 
Supreme Court if you don't get your way in this nomination. 

HARRIS: Let's talk about packing. 

PENCE: Once again, you gave a non-answer. Joe Biden gave a non-answer. 

HARRIS: I'm trying to answer you now. 

PENCE: The American people deserve a straight answer. 

HARRIS: Let's talk about packing the court then. 

PENCE: Please. I just want the record to reflect she never answered the 
question. Maybe in the next debate, Joe Biden will answer the question. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. 

PENCE: But I think the American people know the answer. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

PAVLICH: And Biden refusing to answer the question again on the campaign 
trail today, saying he will give his opinion on court-packing after the 
election. So Dana, that's not a no. It's not a no. We are not going to pack 
the court. It's a maybe, we will. 

PERINO: I thought that Mike Pence prosecuted that case very, very well. I 
think that her laughter in that instance was a little bit about nerves. It 
is really unbelievable that at this point they still don't have an answer. 
But now, because we had Joe Biden saying again today actually I'm going to 
wait until after the election. 

Two things on that, one, I think that on an issue that important that the 
American people are being asked to help decide their fate for the next four 
years or beyond, that that is an issue that really -- they deserve to have 
an answer on. I think the fact that they are not answering it means that 
the answer is yes. I mean, that's what you obviously -- you have to 
conclude that it's yes. 

The second thing I want to bring up, though, is I don't think Joe Biden is 
really actually for packing the court. I don't think he is. But what would 
happen if he said that he is not? What would happen if he actually took a 
principled stand and he led on the issue? Would that mean that all the 
people on the left that are in this marriage of convenience, this tenuous 
truce decide, you know what, it's not even worth it? 

PAVLICH: Yeah. They don't want to vote for him any way and they are 
struggling to do it. Greg, Senator Harris accused the Trump administration 
of racism for daring to fill judicial nomination seats as her answer to the 
court-packing. 

GUTFELD: That's basically that last club in your golf bag, you know? It's, 
like if you have got nothing, just pull out the old race club and see if 
you can get out of the -- 

WATTERS: The rough? 

GUTFELD: The rough, thank you. Why was that moment so important? Because it 
showed you that she didn't look presidential. She didn't even look or sound 
senatorial. And she is a senator. Like I said, I picked her -- I thought 
she was going to be the nominee. And I thought she was going to be the VP 
choice. But man, it's like all this time they didn't prep her? She just 
seems so light weight. 

So this is a huge win for Trump. And even though it was Pence, it's a huge 
win for Trump, because she's not really -- she maybe the number two spot, 
but they -- Biden is relying on her pretending or becoming the number one 
spot. She's actually running for number one. And they just showed that she 
can't be number one, not in this current state. 

PAVLICH: But the reason why she's never comfortable, and this is why she 
wasn't a good presidential candidate is because she doesn't know where she 
stands on the issues in terms of principle, because she has changed them so 
many times, Juan. And she's on the record saying she's willing to get rid 
of the filibuster in order to pack the Supreme Court, but now doesn't want 
to answer the question. 

WILLIAMS: You know, I just find this whole discussion here on THE FIVE so 
one-sided because it was parents who couldn't say to the most consequential 
question of the night, will you respect the results of the election? He 
couldn't just say yes, absolutely. No, he says, well, we see how the 
election -- I mean, it's crazy. 

PAVLICH: Should they pack the court? Yes or no? 

WILLIAMS: What?

PAVLICH: Should they pack the court? Yes or no?

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, if it was up to me -- if it was up to me, here's 
how I would have answered it. And by the way, I thought she did not do a 
good job on that question. She won the debate, but she didn't do a good job 
on that question. I think she should have quickly pivoted and said, Katie, 
you know, wait a second, let's talk about not only the fact that the judges 
who've been put on the court are all white men -- 

GUTFELD: Racist. 

WILLIAMS: But let's -- but let's talk about the fact that you're having a 
rushed process to force a nominee onto the court while Americans are voting 
on elections taking place for the President. 

GUTFELD: Wait, what about Clarence Thomas?

WILLIAMS: And let's look at how the Republicans have corrupted this 
process. And most Americans would have agreed with Kamala Harris that this 
is absolute brute political politics should and not should be done. 

GUTFELD: I guess, Clarence -- 

WILLIAMS: In fact, I think it's crazy that Trump prioritizes Barrett over 
getting relief for our economy that's struggling from Coronavirus. 

PERINO: OK, well, Jesse, Judge Amy Coney Barrett is not a white man. So, 
that argument doesn't stand under who she is. 

WILLIAMS: Is Clarence Thomas nominated by Donald Trump?

GUTFELD: No, you said on the court? 

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, Donald Trump nominee. 

GUTFELD: I'm just trying to correct you. 

WILLIAMS: This is what -- 

GUTFELD: Be accurate, Juan. 

WILLIAMS: Yes, I'm accurate. This is what she was speaking about last 
night. That if you look at Donald Trump's nomination to the court -- 

GUTFELD: It's only white men. I heard that. 

WILLIAMS: It's largely white men. 

PERINO: As the debate moderator, I'm giving the floor to Jesse.

WATTERS: Largely white men is not a third woman, so that counts for 
something, Juan. And before she grabbed the race club, Greg -- 

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: She lied about Honest Abe. Now, if you lie about Lincoln, I think 
that just disqualifies you for running for the V.P. This is what she said. 
She said Abe didn't nominate anybody for the Supreme Court before the 
election because he thought he should wait until after the voters had a 
say. She made that up out of thin air. In fact, history shows, that the 
reason he didn't nominate someone right away was because the Senate wasn't 
in session. 

The second the Senate came back in session, he nominated Chase. Chase was 
confirmed to be justice the same day, and that's what happened. So, it was 
a lot a lie out of Kamala. 

WILLIAMS: After. 

WATTERS: It was the fine people hoax. It was Trump disbanded the pandemic 
unit out of the NSC.

WILLIAMS: That's true. 

WATTERS: It was this lie. It was -- she didn't denounce white supremacy, 
lied about Lincoln. A lot of lies. 

PAVLICH: Thank you for the -- thank you for the history lesson, Jesse. We 
appreciate it. 

WATTERS: You're welcome. 

PAVLICH: Coming up, you won't believe the Democrats' latest attempt to try 
to take down President Trump. That's next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Nancy Pelosi doubting President Trump's 
mental fitness after his COVID-19 diagnosis. Now, the speaker is talking 
about taking drastic measures against him. Watch. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I don't know what the prospects are when we hear 
people saying I'm young and I'm a perfect specimen. Come here tomorrow. 
We're going to be talking about the 25th Amendment, but not to take 
attention away from the subject we have now. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it's time to invoke the 25th Amendment? 

PELOSI: I'll talk to you about that tomorrow. I'll talk to you about it 
tomorrow. I'm not talking about it today because I have to tell you -- if 
you want to talk about that, we'll see you tomorrow. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: The President is firing back tweeting "Crazy Nancy is the one who 
should be under observation. They don't call her crazy for nothing." Oh, 
gosh, is this like an episode of Veep or what? I don't even know what to 
do. She said she doesn't want to talk about it. Then, she teases come back 
tomorrow to talk about it ensuring that everyone is going to talk about it. 

GUTFELD: Who does she remind you of? Donald Trump? 

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: She has learned from the master. 

PERINO: Yes, it's true. 

GUTFELD: If you want to knock out real news, all you got to do is make up 
some of your own because she's learned that. Like Trump played CNN like -- 
just like a violin, right? He just knew that he could just get -- he could 
just eat up all the time. She's doing that with us. What do we have in this 
block? Before we had the Russia collusion. 

It's probably one of the biggest cover ups in the history of cover ups that 
destroyed so many institutions, undermine the media, undermine the FBI, and 
we kick it out for this story. It's freaking brilliant what she did. And 
it's almost -- I mean, it's like, that's what -- you can't blame her. You 
could almost kind of admire her for it. 

WILLIAMS: Well, I think the fact is, what you get here is she gets under 
Trump's skin like nobody else.

GUTFELD: No, but she just do what Trump did. 

WILLIAMS: No, but I think -- I think she's in some ways genius because 
she's trolling Trump. 

GUTFELD: She learned.

WILLIAMS: I think -- I think just like when she said Trump shouldn't -- 

PERINO: You guys are great. 

WILLIAMS: -- Trump shouldn't have a debate. Biden shouldn't bother to 
debate Trump because Trump lies so much. I think it just got under Trump's 
skin. And I think by the way, the substance of it, there's a real 
possibility that, you know, the drugs and things that Trump is taking 
because of his illness is impacting and making him -- I mean, why would 
anybody say no more talks about helping America?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Why do you think -- I mean, it's really anything different. 

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: I mean, that's the thing, Katie. I don't know if I -- 

PAVLICH: Is there a 25th amendment for the Speaker of the House. Is there 
like something similar that they can invoke to try and make sure that Nancy 
Pelosi is also in her right mind? The big news tomorrow she wants you to 
tune in for his they are going to announce the establishment of a 
Commission on Presidential Capacity because that's exactly what the House 
should be focusing on right now. 

PERINO: A commission?

PAVLICH: Another commission in Washington D.C. which I'm sure will solve 
all the problems that she wants -- 

PERINO: That is an old trick when you can't get Coronavirus relief bill 
pass, you start a commission on something. 

WATTERS: I'm sure it will be a lot like the presidential debate commission, 
very fair and balanced. This is exactly what Greg said. They're trying to 
take the wind out of Pence's sales because he mopped the floor with Kamala. 

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh. 

WATTERS: Juan, everybody agrees. Kamala lost and you lost hard. 

WILLIAMS: This is -- this is -- nobody agrees. Are you crazy? No, no. 

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Why are they keep distracting us with 25th Amendment and changing 
it to a virtual debate?

WILLIAMS: Maybe it Trump. Maybe it was Trump who got -- 

WATTERS: If you had a good debate, you let it (INAUDIBLE) all day on cable. 
That's the strategy. 

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE) out of the next debate, Jesse because you saw what 
happened to Pence last night. 

WATTERS: And I also tell you what, they have to -- this took a bite out of 
the virus in terms of public perception, the fact that the President's 
recovered and he's ready to get back out there so quickly. 

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, he looks great.

WATTERS: So, they have to say you're crazy, Mr. President, for recovering, 
for being healthy, and for wanting to get back out on the campaign trail 
because Coronavirus, that's a death sentence. And the fact that you 
recovered like that and are telling seniors that Regeneron is on the way, 
we have to undermine that because you must be crazy.

WATTERS: Yes, I would agree. He must be crazy. 

PERINO: You know the best thing about this hour? 

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: The "FASTEST SEVEN" is up next. 

GUTFELD: Well done.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Welcome back. It's time for the "FASTEST SEVEN." First up, last 
night, you may have heard about this, a fly landed on Mike Pence's head. It 
had Twitter all worked up. I remember when the same thing happened to 
Hillary during 2016, those damn flies. You know what I love, Dana? 
Everybody who wanted a substantive debate on Twitter fixated on the fly.

PERINO: Yes. I mean, it provided a little entertainment and I -- you know, 
if the Plexiglas hadn't been there, Kamala Harris could have reached over 
and like, knocked it out of his hair. That would have been a nice gesture, 
I think. Frank Fahrenkopf of the commission, the Commission on Presidential 
Debates, he's going to be on Martha McCallum's show tonight. So, you want 
to see that out on the story. Maybe she'll ask them if they planted the 
fly.

GUTFELD: Juan, I noticed the fly was not wearing a mask.

WILLIAMS: You know, I like this story because I think it's silly, 
refreshing. 

PERINO: He's just like us.

WILLIAMS: I think -- I think if Mike Pence had swatted it, I think it would 
-- might have humanized him because otherwise -- 

PERINO: I don't think he knew. 

WILLIAMS: I think he -- I don't know if he knew but he just looked like he 
was kind of not in touch with it. He didn't he doesn't have much presence, 
let me just say. 

WATTERS: Juan, let me explain. If you have a lot of hairspray in your hair, 
you don't notice when things get stuck in there. 

WILLIAMS: That's OK, but I'm saying it would have humanized him if he'd had 
a human reaction to something. 

PERINO: But he didn't know. 

WATTERS: But he didn't notice, Juan. 

WILLIAMS: Well, OK. But anyway, I do think it's much better that we're 
discussing this than last week when we're discussing Trump's bullying 
performance. 

WATTERS: Can we talk about the deep state, please? 

GUTFELD: Yes. Steve Schmidt, Jesse, I think was on MSNBC, claimed it was 
the mark of the devil. 

PERINO: No, he didn't. 

WATTERS: Well, I've seen so many flies land on Barack Obama's head that 
like I could make a montage out of it. So -- 

GUTFELD: Tomorrow.

WATTERS: Tomorrow, coming up.

PAVLICH: I have some good advice for all future debate prep. Bring insect 
repellent and spray it on yourself before you go out there, so we don't 
have this problem. And there is now a Mike Pence bobblehead available with 
the fly in the hair nice.

PERINO: Nice. 

GUTFELD: Well, insects do not maintain social distancing rules and that's 
wrong. California's governor is asking diners to be extra careful with this 
tweet he did. "Going out to eat with members of your household this 
weekend? Don't forget to keep your mask on in between bites." Katie, this 
is like idiotic, because the rules states that don't touch your mask. 

PAVLICH: Right.

GUTFELD: Try not to touch your mask.

PAVLICH: You're going to get your mask full of all kinds of grease and food 
and disgusting. Just -- if you have to take off your mask in between bites, 
you're not going to go to a restaurant. 

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Right. 

PAVLICH: This is the thing that makes it harder for people to get back into 
business. Like if I can't go enjoy a meal and have my mask off the entire 
time, I'm just not going to go. And this is not based on science, it's just 
based on political theater. So -- 

GUTFELD: Yes. Dana, it's extreme non-scientific positions that undermined 
actual positions. Like, everybody is OK with common sense, but when you go 
too far, people say that's it.

PERINO: Well, and it's also -- it's a hope. 

GUTFELD: Yes. 

PERINO: And maybe the -- maybe the numbers in my state will go down if I 
make people wear their mask in between taking a bite. Well, if that's the 
case, then nobody should be going to any restaurants then. 

PAVLICH: Right.

PERINO: So, why don't you just go ahead and do that if that's what your 
goal is. I'm very worried about the restaurants in this country. I do think 
people can take common sense precautions. But if you're going to allow 
people to go to restaurants, you got to allow them to eat. 

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I'm must have said a bad word. I need some sleep.

GUTFELD: She's going to say, heck. Jesse, what do you make of this?

WATTERS: You know what I do sometimes? If I'm at a restaurant that has this 
mandate, I'll put the mask on my face. And then I'll pour all the food into 
the mask, and I'm like a horse, and I'll just eat like that.

PAVLICH: It's gross.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, I think we're in for a mom text.

WATTERS: Yes. We've already had two, Juan. 

PERINO: Yes. It's like a -- it will be like a feedbag, a feedbag.

GUTFELD: Juan, would you eat like that? 

WILLIAMS: No, but I think the intent is good. I think you have a governor 
who's trying to do something, you know, positive to try to lower the 
infection rate, but it's just not realistic. But again, to my mind, this is 
a reflection, the fact that the governors are out there, they're trying all 
kinds of ways to deal with this because we have no national plan, no 
national leader. 

WATTERS: No, it's unscientific way. 

PAVLICH: National bite -- 

WILLIAMS: What? 

WATTERS: It's unscientific. 

GUTFELD: All right, Thanksgiving is going to look a bit different this 
year. Four in 10 people say they are planning to do it virtually. And for 
those hosting in-person, 30 percent plan on setting up mandatory 
temperature checks. Juan, how do you pull the wishbone on a virtual 
Thanksgiving?

WILLIAMS: I guess you do it virtually. 

GUTFELD: Yes. 

WILLIAMS: But I mean, this is -- to me, this is pretty sad. I mean, I 
actually thought there might be a higher number than four out of six. 
Because you know, when you get together you got young people, then you got 
older people who clearly are more vulnerable to this disease, so you got to 
be careful. But boy, you know, it's just sad.

GUTFELD: It's sad because you have grandparents, they want to see their 
grandkids.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUTFELD: But Katie, it makes feuding in-laws relieved that you don't -- 

PAVLICH: Well, I don't even want to get into the family feuds about wearing 
masks, not wearing masks, who's in-charge, what's good. That's just a bad 
idea. But the good news is that they are coming out with rapid tests. So, 
maybe next -- 

PERINO: Yes. 

PAVLICH: And by Christmas time, we'll be able to all take the test and feel 
more comfortable about having Thanksgiving dinner together.

WATTERS: We're still going to be counting votes in Thanksgiving, Gutfeld.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I'm going to be yelling at my mom over Zoom about ballot 
harvesting. 

PERINO: We're going to be having Thanksgiving dinner in the green room.

GUTFELD: That is so true. I'm scared. I'm worried.

PERINO: We'll be thinking -- we'll call you mom. 

GUTFELD: Yes. All right, "ONE MORE THING" up next. How's that?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." I'm going to kick it off. I'm 
going to tell you, I've got baseballs on my desk, I've got baseballs on my 
window sills, baseballs, I've caught at games, baseball signed by famous 
people. So, take a look at this bucket of baseballs and the heartfelt note 
attached to it. It was written by Randy Long of Alabama. 

Long who's 72, left that bucket and the note at a local batting cage. He 
explains in the note that his children and grandchildren are now grown, and 
he doesn't get to throw the balls around with them anymore. He ended the 
note with some advice that's just like eternal advice for all dads. He 
said, you won't believe how quickly the time will pass when you can play 
ball with the kids. Cherish those moments, give your kids a hug, and tell 
them you love them every chance you get. 

Jesse, you're up. 

WATTERS: Very sweet. Remember the Home Alone iconic scene, Juan? 

WILLIAMS: I do.

WATTERS: Listen. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in good shape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: My kids love that movie. So, Macaulay turn that famous screen into 
a mask. There he is. He's COVID free with the screen mask, Macaulay Culkin. 
And look at Macaulay with the mask next to him. Look at that. The kid does 
not age. He's like Dana. It's like they never get older. 

GUTFELD: He's aged. 

WATTERS: He is? You partied with him, haven't you, Gutfeld? 

GUTFELD: Yes. 

PERINO: Oh, really?

GUTFELD: A long time ago. I won't get into it.

WATTERS: There you go. 

WILLIAMS: You're up, Dana. 

PAVLICH: Will you tell us on the commercial break?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: OK, I want to talk about the Gary Sinise Foundation. Gary Sinise 
has expanded the normal veterans outreach that they do to help people 
during the pandemic. They recently teamed up with local organizations to 
help provide meals to feed veterans and frontline workers at VAs across the 
country. 

They do box meals mostly -- they most recently, excuse me, help feed nearly 
3,000 frontline workers and veterans at the New Orleans V.A. So, I think 
that's amazing, right? Coronavirus has brought a lot of people together. 
Just last month, they built their 65th home for wounded veterans so they're 
not stopping on doing that either. So, you can learn more -- 

GUTFELD: He should come on THE FIVE. 

PERINO: -- Yes, Greg. I agree. He should come on THE FIVE. What, are you like -- are you like a booker now?

GUTFELD: Yes, I'm doing a lot of booking on the side. Times are kind of 
tied over at the Gutfeld residence.

WATTERS: Yes. That's how you afforded that new car.

GUTFELD: Yes. If I ever get that car. All right, where -- 

WILLIAMS: You're up. You're up. 

GUTFELD: OK. OK, it's time for Greg's How Many Nuts part two. You know the 
drill. I'm going to go over and ask you guys one question. Katie, how many 
nuts? 

PAVLICH: Seven.

GUTFELD: Juan?

WILLIAMS: 10. 

WATTERS: Two nuts. 

GUTFELD: Two nuts?

PERINO: One. 

GUTFELD: One, OK. You said 10, you said seven. All right, let's see. Roll 
it. 

PERINO: Oh, I forgot what this was about. 

PAVLICH: So, did I.

WATTERS: I always say two. 

GUTFELD: Four, five -- 

PAVLICH: Wow, Juan is going to win.

WATTERS: It's just the same -- 

PERINO: Oh my goodness.

PAVLICH: This chipmunk is ready for winter.

PERINO: Juan nailed it. 

PAVLICH: Juan was spot on. 

WATTERS: What does he win?

GUTFELD: Juan, you win -- 

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait a second. You know how I got -- 

GUTFELD: -- a bag of nuts. 

WILLIAMS: -- you know how I got this. 

GUTFELD: Why?

WILLIAMS: Because Jesse had the idea in a previous segment. You just put it 
in the mask and then you -- 

WATTERS: It's a feedbag. 

WILLIAMS: I'm telling you, man, Jesse is my leader, man. 

GUTFELD: There you go.

PAVLICH: I like it. All right, so we all know that 2020 has been intense. But if you're looking to get away, the Web site is offering one lucky person a chance to book a rustic 
underground cave vacation during the election weeks from November 2nd to 
November 5th. It's a five-night stay. 

You can have the chance to stay in this off the grid man cave built 50 feet 
below the ground in New Mexico. It's a once in a lifetime booking. The 
booking will go live tomorrow. They're under a rock Web site 
at Friday, tomorrow, October 9th at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. There's only 
one person who's going to be able to book it. 

So, if you've always wanted to live under a rock like most people, this is 
your chance, especially during election week. 

GUTFELD: This is perfect for November. 

PAVLICH: But they're going to have to extend this to Thanksgiving, right, 
because we're going to be counting ballots forever.

WATTERS: They're going to come out of the rock and they're going to find 
out of Joe is going to pack the court.

GUTFELD: Biden is actually -- Biden is actually bidding on it right now.

PAVLICH: Finally, they'll finally know.

WILLIAMS: So, you know, the three of us were in Utah, and guess who we ran 
into, our friend Jason Chaffetz, the former congressman who represents part 
-- a little bit of Salt Lake, but then all the way down towards the Great 
Arches and Zion National Park and Salt Lake. I tell you, it was fun. Did 
you have fun?

WATTERS: He'll be on "WATTERS' WORLD" this weekend, so tune in 8:00 
Eastern. 

PAVLICH: Way to plug. 

WATTERS: And 11:00. 

PERINO: I love Utah. I spent a lot of time there when I was a kid. That was 
a place where we went on a lot of road trips -- 

WILLIAMS: From Wyoming? 

PERINO: Yes. I was -- I was born in Evanston, Wyoming, and then that was 
just a hop, a skip, and a jump away to Salt Lake City. But I thought Utah 
hosted us very, very well. It was a pleasure. 

WILLIAMS: It was great. Absolutely.

PERINO: And good food. 

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Utah. That's it for us today. "SPECIAL REPORT."

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