This is a rush transcript from “The Ingraham Angle" October 8, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

INGRAHAM: I'm Laura Ingraham, and this is "The Ingraham Angle." The left and the media are trying to paint President Trump as the super spreader in order to end presidential debates. Well, a doctor tells us why they're ignoring the science.

Also, Kamala's defenders were quick to level charges of racism and sexism, and that happened after last night's debate. But what does that actually say about her abilities? Candace Owens here with can't miss reaction.

But first, Biden's Plan D, that's the focus of "Tonight's Angle." Now, recently, I warned you that in the homestretch of this campaign, the Biden team would cynically use a combination of the three Ds as their closing

strategy: deflect, demonize, and demoralize. Well, tonight "The Angle" will show you why understanding these tactics is critical to understanding how they'll govern if they get the chance.

First, deflect. The entire country saw Mike Pence absolutely flatten Kamala Harris in their debate. But Biden's media toadies, they want you to believe that it doesn't matter. Instead, they point to --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: But I think a lot of people were noticing some mansplaining going on tonight.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He made my skin crawl.

The constant interruptions, the mansplaining.

VALERIE JARRETT, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISOR: He did keep interrupting both Senator Harris and Susan Page.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": He had a bloody eye and a fly on his head --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He who commands the flies always been seen historically the mark of the devil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Of course, this is bunk, but you can't have it both ways. She's a tough former prosecutor who rose to prominence on her wit and grit. And when she gets in trouble, she's suddenly the damsel in distress being mansplained, and too by the mean Mike Pence. And at the same time, attempts a deflection, explain Biden's own refusal to answer questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You'll now my opinion of court packing when the election is over. This is great question, y'all, and I don't blame you for asking it. But the moment I answer that question, the headline in every one of your papers will be about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now this reminds me of another telling liberal hide the ball moment before the Obamacare vote in 2010.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: I forgot about the fog of controversy part of that. Well, she knew that the legislation was a mess, and Biden knows that court packing is very unpopular and unprecedented, so he just punts the question.

Yet, if Trump doesn't give his minute by minute blood oxygen reading to the jackals on the White House press corps, they pounce? Look, if we had a real working press in the United States, they would demand that Biden answer some basic questions, like will you pack the court? Now answer it. Should DC become a state? Will you lift the tariffs on steel and on China? Will you send more troops to the Middle East? And how will your COVID lockdowns be enforced? Are they constitutional? Why do you think they're constitutional?

The Biden deflection on these topics should give voters pause. And now they're deflecting from having to answer any legitimate questions by backing out of the debates. Even though the White House doctors cleared the president to return to the trail by Saturday, Biden will now only commit to one more debate. But don't worry, he's going to be doing a town hall with that very objective and unbiased George Stephanopoulos on the scheduled debate night. Don't hold your breath for any of the tough questions I just mentioned.

Now the second "D," demonization. Now, it's been a vicious atmosphere for Trump in his family since he came down that golden escalator, but I've never seen anything like the hate that they've been subjected to in just the past few weeks.

Now, while most decent people are happy when sick patients rebound, Democrats on the Hill and in the press are livid to see that Trump is recovering from COVID. "How dare he leave the hospital? He's the super spreader and chief." That's my favorite. "The White House is a ghost town.

Staffers are freaking out. He's walking contagion." Their constant demonization of a sitting U.S. president has affected all aspects of our lives. We can't get away from it.

And of course, avuncular nice old Joe, he greenlit that disrespect at the last debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. This is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle to try to generate racist hatred, racist division. He's just - he's the racist.

TRUMP: Who is on your list?

BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, they're trying to blame Trump for a handful of Michigan militia men who were allegedly planning to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Listen to this. This is a nut, nut, nut situation. Never mind the fact that these lunatics look like they're anarchists and not right wingers. These folks somehow managed to skirt any culpability for stoking the violence and the riots that destroyed our cities.

But now Trump is to blame for a couple of fools, criminals in Michigan?

That's like Biden is responsible for this assault that we've seen on cops.

The Left has encouraged the disrespect of any and all authority, especially the president.

Now they demonize Trump because they can't sell Biden. They don't want it to be a choice election between Trump and Biden, but it is. In the end, you're choosing between liberty or lockdowns, between law and order chaos, between America First or America's End.

And the final "D", demoralization. The press knows and the puppet masters behind Biden and Harris know that if conservatives and independents, if you think that your votes don't matter, maybe you'll just give up. And there's no better way to depress turnout than citing lousy polls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Joe Biden is in the driver's seat right now.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Donald Trump's sinking in the polls. He's desperate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down 10 points, 12 points, 14 points, so the hour of repudiation is at hand. The walls are coming down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Of course, it was four years ago yesterday that the Billy Bush tapes were released, and they hoped then that you'd give up as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: GOP turmoil, Republicans abandoning Donald Trump by the dozens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Trump is on the ropes - listing ship that people are jumping from.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going down in flames. It is a very, very dangerous moment for the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, fortunately, the people then saw through all of it, and we know what happened on Election Day. And if the polls don't work, well, they'll use COVID to demoralize you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New concerns tonight about previous hotspots of the virus heating up again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we're talking about North Dakota, we're talking about Wisconsin.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS

DISEASES: The baseline of 40,000 infections per day, that's at a level that I'm not comfortable with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: I'm not comfortable with. Of course, they provide no context.

Like the fact that only a small number of college students have been hospitalized after returning to campus. And they don't show the graphs that matter like this one. That shows U.S. hospitalization rates plummeting.

They want COVID to dominate your thinking, so that you forget about what life was like before pandemic. It's actually really good, wasn't it?

Keeping you hopeless means keeping you helpless and dependent on government, that's not who we are as Americans. It's certainly not the bold, innovative approach that the Trump administration has taken, which has saved our economy from the dregs that Europe now finds itself in.

You're smarter than all the overpaid hacks running Biden's campaign, because you know, that Biden's not running anything.

Contrary to this hardscrabble working man rhetoric, it's Wall Street, the neo-Bolsheviks, and the high tech billionaires pulling his strings. I think that the three "Ds" properly exposed, I think they can actually sink the "Ds," the Democrats, because betting against Trump is like betting against America. It's always a highly risky proposition. And that's "The Angle."

Joining me now is David Marcus, New York Correspondent for The Federalist and Tom Bevan, Co-Founder and President of RealClearPolitics,

David, now, last night's debate, it showed that Democrats don't have much of a platform beside, we're not Trump. Don't Americans deserve an actual choice between policies?

DAVID MARCUS, "THE FEDERALIST" NEW YORK CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head just a moment ago when you said that the Democrats absolutely do not want this to be a choice election. They want to point at Donald Trump, say that he's bad and say, "Hey, you can trust old Joe Biden. You've known him for years."

But I do think there was an opening last night because - and today, because of the failure to answer the question about packing the Supreme Court. I think we can all just assume that that answer is yes. And we heard the President just now basically say that.

And so that's something that I think the Trump campaign needs to keep pressure on it. And Mike Pence did a really great job last night, because the moderator wasn't going to bring it up at all. And Mike Pence demanded that that question get answered and the question didn't get answered.

INGRAHAM: Yes. The moderator also didn't ask, why won't you answer the question on lockdowns, and how will you enforce your lockdowns? Lots of questions weren't asked last night. But the Trump campaign, Tom, now says that the President can return to the campaign trail and they issued this statement tonight.

The President Trump's physician, Sean Conley says he'll be cleared medically for safe return to public engagements by Saturday, five full days before that debate was scheduled in Miami on October 15th. And then the president tonight told Hannity that they're considering a Florida rally on Saturday. Tom, what about that?

TOM BEVAN, PRESIDENT, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: Well, this is obviously good news for the Trump campaign, because no campaign is sort of more reliant on the candidate as the messenger, as the energizer of the base of the party, then Donald Trump.

And so, the prospect of him getting back on the trail for the last couple of weeks, even ahead of what most people thought was going to be his schedule, is I think welcome news for the Trump campaign. They were sort of scrambling, trying to fill the gaps while he was on the sidelines. And to have him back and do rally, I think is exactly what the Trump campaign wants to happen.

INGRAHAM: David, I've never seen anything like this where we have an entire political apparatus in the Democrat Party and most everyone in the media, who are cheering on Trump's political demise, but who - with a dash of, "keep him off the trail, because he's sick for good measure." And I think they are they're absolutely stunned.

Maybe he might have a little bit of a cough. I get that. He coughed a few times on Hannity. They're going crazy on that online tonight. But that - just the fact that he's out there so soon after he was hospitalized, that's got to be inspiring, I think. I think they're missing the inspirational part of all that for everybody who's suffered from any disease.

MARCUS: I don't think they're missing it at all. I think they know that it's inspirational, and so they're doing everything that they can to ensure that the American people are dubious about it. I mean, when you go back at the coverage over the weekend, I mean, they had the man two feet in the in the grave by Saturday. And the better he got, the more annoyed they seem to get.

There was a prominent anchor today who was just opining on Twitter that maybe the video of him was done in front of a green screen, and he's actually didn't go outside, and that just turned out to be false. And there's no there's no correction. Nobody goes on TV and says, "Boy, I really got that wrong. Maybe I should be more level headed." That's just - that doesn't occur.

INGRAHAM: Tom, a new Gallup poll is showing that 56 percent of Americans - this is during the midst of a pandemic, say they're better off now than they were four years ago. It's the highest Gallup has ever recorded. OK.

How is Trump behind in these polls, if that's the true, better off than we were four years ago number? What's that disconnect?

BEVAN: Well, yes. I mean, there certainly is a disconnect. Not only that, but the idea that the economy is still far and away the number one issue, and Trump still has an advantage over Biden on that issue. And so, his job approval rating on the economy is still over 50 percent. And so that is - continues to be I think, his strongest suit, and you'll see him play to that over the coming weeks.

Look, you look at these national polls. Biden is up 10, 12, 14 points. In the swing states he is - his lead has gained a little bit, but he's right about where Hillary Clinton was four years ago. Think about that. We're 27,

26 days from the election and Joe Biden is almost exactly where Hillary Clinton was in these big six battleground states. That is, I think, signifies that this race is probably still very competitive and a lot closer than - and I think the Biden campaign is acting like this race is closer than a 10 or 12 or 14 point race.

INGRAHAM: Yes. Yes, they sent Michelle out there to scream racism and all the rest. Now, David, without ideas, Democrats and a lot of the folks in the media are resorting now to this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: Tomorrow -- come here tomorrow, we're going to be talking about the 25th Amendment.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We don't know the president's physiological health. We don't know what damage may have been done. The real possibility that this is a time that the 25th Amendment needs to be considered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: I mean, David, will they stop at nothing to remove Trump if they could from even the ballot at this point?

MARCUS: I mean, it's insane. I mean, she's literally talking about an emergency measure to try to remove the sitting President of the United States. She was asked about it by a reporter, and she said, I don't want to talk about it right now. I'll tell you tomorrow. I mean, at least it's not after the election like Joe Biden, but I mean, this is foolishness.

INGRAHAM: No. But I - for a party that's supposed to be 14 points up in these national polls, they're acting a lot - there's a lot of desperation out there. It's very interesting. Gentlemen, wonderful to see both of you, thanks so much.

And now that the Commission on Presidential Debates has put the idea of a virtual debate out there, Democrats are calling on Biden to avoid stepping on the debate stage with Trump at all. Now, given the debate commissioners

- well, of course, they're playing right along.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK FAHRENKOPF, CO-CHAIR, COMMISSION ON PRESIDENT DEBATES: Everything is subject to what we're doing with regard to medical safety. We're being guided by medical advice. We're not sure that both of them are safe, and that we can hold it in a safe manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: But is there any risk to Trump and Biden debating in person if the event is delayed an extra week? Joining me now is Dr. William Grace, Oncologist, Hematologist. Dr. Grace, just your basic take on this. Doctor is going to clear Trump to get back on the trail on Saturday, OK. Would it be safe for Biden and Trump - I assume they'd be 15 feet apart, at least,

20 feet apart even on the stage, to have debated on schedule on October 15th.

DR. WILLIAM GRACE, ONCOLOGIST & HEMATOLOGIST: Well, we know Laura that he has antibodies in the -- in his bloodstream. And there are two ways of getting antibodies. The first is of course, getting the infection. The second, of course, is getting the antibodies from somebody else, or some vaccination or getting the antibodies from passive immunization from some product like he got from Regeneron.

And so we know that he has antibodies. And if we has antibodies, that means there's no virus around to neutralize them and to get them out of the picture. So the presence of antibodies means that he's probably not shedding viruses.

That doesn't mean that the PCR, the very sensitive tests we do in the nasal pharynx won't be positive. We've known that some people are positive for some period of time, maybe as long as one or two weeks. But we know that the particles that are there are not infective.

So it's important that we know that he has antibodies and therefore doesn't have whole infective viral particles in his system. And, two, we'll know for sure, and it'll be reassuring if his PCR test is negative. That means he not only doesn't have viral particles, he doesn't have even the breakdown products that are non-infective in his nasal pharynx.

INGRAHAM: And but it's very misleading, the PCR test, given the sensitivity, which we don't have to go into all the details about how it spawn and, and the cycles - the number of cycles that are used. But that's the point while taking Dr. Grace.

Now, there was a CNN medical guest who did not seem to think it will ever be safe, Dr. Grace, for Biden to debate in person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PETER HOTEZ, VACCINE DEVELOPMENT SCIENTIST: Even if the President is negative, there's so much virus transmission going on in the White House right now, I'm more worried about the - his entourage, which could be shedding virus. And this is - it puts a lot of - puts the Vice President Biden in potential danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Dr. Grace, is this a little much here?

GRACE: It's much too much, because basically there are protocols that could isolate the Biden entourage from the Trump entourage and this could be done very safely.

INGRAHAM: Now, Dr. Grace, wonderful to see you tonight. Thanks so much for joining us --

GRACE: Good seeing you Laura.

INGRAHAM: -- as always. And coming up, what do the media's pathetic excuses for Kamala Harris's debate really say about what the left thinks about who's really going to be president. Candace Owens has answers in moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Now, last night was really the first time Kamala Harris was confronted since she became Joe Biden's running mate. Now let me repeat. It was the first time in eight weeks, a woman who could be second in line to a

78 year old president, that she's ever had any - to answer any probing questions.

Now, forget Biden's age for a moment and just listen to how New York Magazine put it this week. "If the ex-VP and California senator do prevail in November, Harris is poised to wield a whole new kind of influence as second in command. A considerable source of power for Harris would be her de facto elevation as the 2024 Democratic front runner. Now Biden won't say it out loud, but if he wins, he is highly unlikely to run for a second term."

Now you hear that? Kamala is the president in waiting. Now, with that knowledge out in the open, the media obviously held her feet to the fire last night, right?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Harris can't know (ph) that they're going to be judged by absurd misogynistic standards --

CHRISTINA GREER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: For a lot of women who are watching this debate, the rage that so many people felt because we have been in these situations time and time again.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I wonder if a woman candidate feels like she can't push as much or steamroll as much as say Mike Pence can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, if Kamala can't handle being challenged in a vice presidential debate, how was she supposed to go toe to toe with, I don't know, Vladimir Putin or President Xi, or even AOC for that matter and the radicals in her own party. But the media, they're not interested in doing anything, except making excuses for her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRITTANY SHEPHERD, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, YAHOO NEWS: If they're more pointed against their opponent, they're an angry black woman, an angry black person and they need to pipe down.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There is this stereotype and the trope of the angry black woman.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Toughest thing to be in American society, yes.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Woman of color.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: There it is. Challenging, poor, old Kamala is tantamount to a hate crime. Now, does that make what Kamala did to Joe during the primary elder abuse?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It was a debate.

(LAUGHTER)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW": Not everybody landed punches like you did, though.

HARRIS: It was a debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Then there's that laugh. This might be funny if the stakes weren't so high this election. Now, after a pathetic showing last night, I doubt we're going to be hearing much from Kamala on the campaign trail between now and Election Day. And in a normal election, that prospect would probably have the media up in arms. They'd be clamoring for the transparency and where's the democratic process.

But now that the debate is so - I mean, the media is so in the tank for Biden, any expectations of free and fair press holding every candidate accountable, that should just be thrown out. Kamala and Biden will be allowed to dodge and lie all they want, while voters will be robbed of a true choice in this election.

Joining me now is Candace Owens, Blexit founder and author of "Blackout."

Candace, does it diminish Kamala that the media feels the need to come and rescue her with these tired tropes?

CANDACE OWENS, AUTHOR, "BLACKOUT": For me, I'm personally getting 2016 deja vu. I kind of want to fast forward to the part where they tell every woman that we failed somehow, because we forgot to cast our ballots and it's our duty as women to make sure that we stand behind Kamala despite her abhorrent record.

And she's facing a similar problem, by the way, that Hillary Clinton faced in 2016. She's just not a very likable candidate. I think the Democrat Party was surprised when they offered her - when she was running for the presidential election and she failed. They did not like her. When I say they, I'm talking about Black America. They thought they would get behind this candidate. Look, you've got a Black, you've got a woman and it didn't happen.

On both sides of the aisle, there was a shared repulsion to her. Black America remembered her record as a prosecutor, remembered her record as California's top cop. And I was so happy Laura, let me tell you, when Vice President Pence went after about her record on Black America. Because this is a woman who was so inauthentic that she is now trying to climb the Black Lives Matter tree along with Joe Biden, despite her abhorrent record on Black America.

So you know what happened last night. It wasn't misogyny. It wasn't sexism.

It was called losing a debate. Vice President Pence beat Kamala Harris in every single regard last night, and it was beautiful to watch.

INGRAHAM: Now with actual facts, which was just - it was a pleasure to watch a debate were facts dominated. Now, I have to share this with you. I thought this was actually something out of the Babylon Bee. But, unfortunately, it's the "Washington Post" Global Opinions Editor. Candace, Karen Attiah actually wrote these words.

She wrote, "The plexiglass was on an onstage reminder of the barriers that non-White women face when vying for political power in this country."

Candace, how does anyone --

OWENS: You know, Laura, I would --

INGRAHAM: -- really like to take this seriously?

OWENS: I'd like you to go back and look up my name in the "Washington Post"

and see how I'm treated by those very same people, despite the fact that I'm a Black woman. There seems to be a different standard. As long as you're a liberal Democrat Black woman, then of course, they love to ride that minority oppressed horse and tell people that they should be ashamed that they don't support this individual.

As I said, Kamala Harris has lots of things about her factually, that people should not be standing by, and we're seeing that across America.

They can't make America like her. And they're refusing to accept the fact that they just picked a bad vice presidential candidate for Joe Biden. And he's not very strong himself. So they're seeing a natural reaction from Americans who preferred last night to see Vice President Mike Pence on stage.

INGRAHAM: Yes. And Candace, I was just thinking about this. Like, Joe Biden sold her as this tough, kid. She's smart. She's tough. She can get in the ring with anybody. And yet he is just whining on camera. I guess, this was today in Arizona about how she was treated. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's despicable. It's so beneath the office of the presidency. And the American people are sick and tired of it.

They know who this man is. It's got to stop. This is one of the finest persons I've ever dealt with. This is a person who is ready on day one to take on the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: I love reading that, Biden, Harris is ready to be president on day one, except don't criticize her or be mean to her, because nobody on the international stage is ever going to criticize her.

CANDACE OWENS, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TURNING POINTS USA: That's exactly right. And I'll tell you, this is what I dislike so much about modern feminism and I call it out all the time. It's so fraudulent today. They're just sitting there saying they want equality, they want equal treatment.

And then when they get equal treatment, what do they do? They run and they hide and they say, no, that's misogyny because I don't want to be on the stage and have to answer tough questions.

It's a very simple question, are you going to pack the court? And now she's complaining. And America is seeing these are not strong candidates. And this is why people are going to, in my opinion, prefer a President Donald Trump candidacy over Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, because they just seem to be stronger candidates who do not complain and whine in the same that the left always does, but castigating all of Americans when they don't get what they want. Now we're all racists, now we're all sexists, now we're all white supremacists because you candidate simply failed to deliver onstage next to V.P. Pence.

INGRAHAM: You can't use a race to explain everything about all aspects of politics. After a while, I think people roll their eyes. Canace, wonderful to see you, thanks so much for being here.

And I have to say coming up, there's two really important questions that the media refuse to ask about the numbers behind COVID, how much fraud is there in the numbers coming out of the hospitals today, and has this led to an inaccurate tally of the virus and the lethality of the virus? Alex Berenson and Phil Kerpen next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Months ago, we warned you that hospitals, especially ones struggling financially, had an incentive to fudge COVID numbers. Why would they do that? For the higher reimbursements they get from the government, that's why. And it's not a fringe theory. "USA Today" fact-checkers confirm that hospitals do get higher federal payouts for patients with COVID.

So in other words, I'll explain it this way -- a death caused by a heart attack may be logged as a COVID death if the patient tests positive for the virus, get it? So the question is, how pervasive could this be, and is it inflating our COVID staff. We may soon get some answers. The Trump administration announced this week that hospitals that do not properly keep track of COVID and influenza patients could lose their Medicare and Medicaid funding. Ouch.

Joining me now is Alex Berenson, author of "Unreported Truths about COVID- 19," and Phil Kerpen, president of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity.

Alex, is this just paranoia on our part, or is there an incentive to misreport facts, or at least maybe it was the proximate cause, but not the actual real cause because a lot of these local hospitals are cash strapped?

ALEX BERENSON, FORMER "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER: We are talking about two different issues here, Laura. It's clear that hospitals do get a higher reimbursement for COVID cases. That has been known since March. It's not a secret. If they get a 20 percent bonus. There may be more PPE, this may be more intense cases, so that may make a certain amount of sense. But it does encourage hospitals to code every possible patient they can as a COVID case.

Death counts are a different issue, and they are much more complicated, and there's real problems with the way we're counting COVID deaths. This, as you said, we've known this for months, too. It's crazy to me in that I wrote about back in June with the first lockdown -- or with the first booklet I wrote, and nothing has changed.

And I want to point to a case that I actually tweeted about today that people can go look at and judge for themselves. This is a 29-year-old man who died a couple of months ago, and he was -- his obituary was actually written in "The New York Times," and in the headline it says he died of the coronavirus. So I thought to myself, wow, that's a really disturbing case, if a healthy 29-year-old can die of the coronavirus.

And I asked of the medical examiner in the county where he lived, was an autopsy performed, and what were the results. And they reported back to me today that he had actually -- his death had actually been ruled accidental due to the toxicity from two drugs, from oxycodone and from Xanax. And yes, they said that COVID-19 was a contributing factor to it.

So I would urge people to look at that for themselves and judge for themselves. Is that a COVID death? Does that make sense to call it a coronavirus death when the M.E. is saying something different?

INGRAHAM: Let's get to Phil. And CDC Director Redfield acknowledged, Phil, that hospitals do have this financial incentive to maybe play with the numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION:

We've seen this in other disease processes too early in the HIV epidemic.

Somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV. The hospital would prefer the DRG for HIV because there's greater reimbursement.

When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, it's how the physician defines it on the death certificate. And when it comes to hospital reimbursements, there could be some play in that for sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Phil, how widespread is this do you think?

PHIL KERPEN, COMMITTEE TO UNLEASH PROSPERITY: I think it's pretty widespread. We definitely saw it when the high-impact funding was coming up and we have those deadlines and hospitals had to get their 100 coronavirus patients to get the $75,000 each, and they crammed it to get it. And then there was the second deadline. So we don't have one of those deadlines right now, but you still have the 20 percent plus up, you still have a lot of pressure from administrators to code it as much as possible.

And in a lot of places -- and by the way, prior to September 1st, they didn't even need to test. They could just say we think this person has coronavirus, reimburse us 20 percent more and add that to the patient. Now the federal government is requiring that they do a test. But we know you can find a lab that will give you a huge number of false positives or trivial non-infectious positives. And so the hospitals are not going to use a lab that's giving them lots of negatives. They're going to use a lab that's giving them lots of positives.

And you look inside some of the hospitalization numbers, and you see, for instance, that among women aged 15 to 49 who are currently hospitalized with coronavirus, over 20 percent of them are pregnant. To me, that suggests that they are in the hospital for a completely unrelated reason and they happen to have tested positive, but that still goes in the statistics.

INGRAHAM: So 40 percent asymptomatic cases, yes. Tonight, on CNN, guys, Bill Gates, he said things would not be going back to normal anytime soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GATES: For the next two years, there will be this virus. And so lot of the things that can cause super spreading events will be very restricted even a year from now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Alex, two years. In Australia they might not let anyone travel until 2022. I read that yesterday.

BERENSON: Yes. And there is going to be a push to try to get everybody to take the vaccine, whether that's going to be mandated or quasi-mandated.

There's going to be efforts to continue to force masks on people. I don't understand what the obsession with not going back to normal is, with insisting that this virus is going to change our lives forever. Other respiratory viruses have not done that, other respiratory viruses that are comparable in terms of severity -- the 1968 Hong Kong flu, the 1957 flu.

Forget the Spanish flu. I'm talking about stuff that people at the time barely even noticed.

And there definitely is something strange happening with the dynamic of the media, with the dynamic of the public health establishment where there really is an effort to sell this as some world changing event --

INGRAHAM: For them it is.

BERENSON: -- when the numbers do not support that.

INGRAHAM: But we're also --

KERPEN: We need to be very careful over the next couple of months, because we are going into winter. And every winter you have a big increase in respiratory illness, you have big increase in hospitalization, you have a big increase in deaths. It's all in the baseline. But if they keep using the counting method they are using, a lot of those normal deaths that happen every winter are going to end up in their counters and then their spinners for hospitalizations and deaths to feed the panic cycle.

INGRAHAM: You got it. Gentlemen, we've got to go, but that --

BERENSON: It is clear that the --

INGRAHAM: When Fauci is saying 400,000, how many of those are flu deaths that would have happened anyway? And I'm sorry, but we have to call all of this into question when they're taking our liberties away. Gentlemen, thank you so much.

And still ahead, why the police shooting that sparked rioting in Wisconsin last night was different than the rest. The guest we were supposed to have on was just arrested reporting there for us tonight. The story behind what happened in moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Chaos once again rips apart a Wisconsin city, this after the Milwaukee Country District Attorney declined a charge Wauwatosa Officer Joseph Mensah in connection with the death of black 17-year-old Alvin Cole back in February. Despite a 7:00 p.m. curfew, demonstrators tore through the city of Wauwatosa last night, clashing with police, smashing windows in businesses and homes, and rousing people from their beds.

But the police shooting that set off this right was different than the rest for a few reasons. First, let's go through the facts of the case. According to the D.A., on Feb 2nd, officers called to investigate a disturbance outside a mall spotted Cole in the parking lot with a stolen and loaded nine-millimeter pistol. Cole then ran from the cops and fired off a shot.

After Cole refused to drop his weapon, Officer Mensah returned fire and killed him.

So far this sounds like the exact type of incident that would fit BLM's police brutality narrative, except for this -- Officer Mensah is black. So how is this an example of systemic racism? Tell us. It's a good question.

But not to the BLM and Antifa Marxists who are marching through the streets of Wauwatosa last night. This isn't about racial injustice. It's about using violence to gain power, to delegitimize systems, and intimidate anyone who stands in their way.

We were supposed to be joined by journalist Brendan Gutenschwager who was on the scene in Wisconsin, but he was arrested earlier tonight. According to "Daily Caller" reporter Shelby Talcott, Brendan was arrested while sitting in a car away from where protesters were clashing with the cops.

Shelby and a "Daily Caller" cameraman were also arrested but were released.

Brendan was not. Lucky for us, the unparalleled Julio Rosas, 'Townhall' senior writer, was not arrested, and he joins us now. Julio, how do all of these -- I'd say, what do all of these riots have in common?

JULIO ROSAS, SENIOR WRITER, 'TOWNHALL' : Well, basically all of these riots that I have been covered since Minneapolis back in May is just that there's been an officer involved in a death of someone who is black. And really, this hasn't even been much of a natural story, but as you pointed to earlier, the reason why people are just finding out about it nationally is because this happened back in February, so pre George Floyd, and the fact that the officer involved is black, where usually in the cases, whether it's in Minneapolis or Atlanta with Rayshard Brooks, usually the officers are white, and that's one of the aspects that adds to the outrage.

But in this case, as mentioned before, the officer is African American.

INGRAHAM: Now, I really need to show this disturbing video shot. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, Julio, this is moving into the suburbs, is it not?

ROSAS: It absolutely is. And I know that there has been a little bit of controversy of President Trump mentioning suburbs and riots, but I can say

-- I saw it -- that they went out of their way to attack that apartment complex. And I actually spoke to the owner of that apartment complex who said that the only person that was home that night was a 70-year-old woman.

She obviously woke up, she was screaming, she was crying, she couldn't stop shaking, and he had to take her to her sister's house because obviously she was no longer safe there.

And so this is definitely, unfortunate, a disturbing trend that we're seeing where it's no longer just centralized in a downtown metropolitan area. They have been caravanning to Wauwatosa, and unfortunately not only are business being targeted, like they were last night, but they for whatever reason decided to attack that apartment complex despite no one went out of there to antagonize or film them as often as we've seen in other cases.

INGRAHAM: Michelle Obama, when she released that video this week, Julio, said that most of the protests are peaceful. But most of the damage, which destroys communities and businesses and terrorizes people in their beds now

-- is that all calm and peaceful like Michelle says? I presume these people were rioting, some of them probably are paid, but they are not big Trump fans, I would imagine. Correct?

ROSAS: What I can say is Michelle Obama definitely was not being truthful in that. I have personally seen, unfortunately, all the riots from Minneapolis to Kenosha which is a stone's throw away from where we are currently at. And so --

INGRAHAM: These are not peaceful, Julio. Sorry, we've got to go, thank you for joining us last minute.

We have a Last Bite that you cannot miss coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Just a reminder, the Democrats desire to hide Joe from the debate stage predates Trump's COVID diagnoses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I don't think that there should be any debates.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn't think Biden should debate. Do you still feel that way?

PELOSI: I do.

I myself did not think that Joe Biden should dignify a debate with the President. I think one and done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: It's not about Trump's COVID, it's about hiding Joe. That's all the time we have tonight. Shannon Bream and the FOX NEWS @ NIGHT team take it all from here. Shannon.

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