Border Patrol chief: This caravan is unlike any other

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Border Patrol chief: This caravan is unlike any other

Rodney Scott reacts to the violence occurring at the U.S.-Mexico border.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," November 26, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: It is beautiful. Bret, thank you very much. So, breaking this evening. Fox News can now confirm just moments ago that 300 troops from our southern border have now been moved from the Texas and Arizona border over to back up in California. Where this was the chaotic scene over this weekend. Watch and listen to some of this for just a minute.

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(INAUDIBLE)

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Those are the sights and sounds. It led officials over the weekend to shut down the main port between San Diego and Tijuana. Prompted the President to threaten that he may have to close the border permanently if need be.

I'm Martha MacCallum in New York. The president spoke out just a short time ago on this subject. Watch.

Ah, no sound. But we will get it for you. The president is speaking again in Mississippi, later this evening. He is pushing once again for Congress to approve the funds to build the wall, and support immigration reform.

Let's go live right now to Tijuana where correspondent Jeff Paul is live on the scene. Good evening, Jeff.

JEFF PAUL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. You have the scene outside the main migrant shelter here in Tijuana is overwhelming.  You have people walking in all different directions. As you take a look over here, this is the main shelter where thousands from Central America are living. And now, others are spilling out into the street where they are living in tents.

As you take a look over here, you can see just all the crowds out here.  And despite all these people who are moving around, it is much more peaceful compared to what happened yesterday.

So, take a look at this video. This is the scene at the border where it looks like as if some rocks were thrown at U.S. Border Patrol agents. As a result, those agents ended up using less than lethal force, which included a tear gas and some pepper spray balls.

Some of those folks who were at that protest rushing up right up to the border wall were detained and arrested. Others though, running to safety just trying to find a place to hide.

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MYRNA LISSETE AMAYA, MIGRANT FORM HONDURAS (through translator): When we went to that side, it was when they started throwing tear gas at us. And there are many children who fainted. Many young children fainted, my daughter also got gassed. Pregnant women and there are many men who are also fainted.

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PAUL: As you take a look at this picture if we have it out. This is a picture tweeted out by the mayor of Tijuana showing that some arrests were made on that side of the border. Up to 79 arrests on the other side of the border by American authorities who arrested people who are trying to get into the border illegally.

But as we come back out here live, it is a much different situation. Some of the migrants we've talked to say, despite all those tensions at the border they are not going to give up, and they are hoping to still one day get access into the U.S. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Jeff, thank you very much. Joining me now, Rodney Scott, the chief patrol agent for San Diego. Sector Border Patrol Chief, good to have you with us this evening. Thanks for being here. I know you guys are very busy. We just looked at all of those images on the border.

Why -- can you explain why it was necessary to use pepper spray on these individuals?

RODNEY SCOTT, CHIEF BORDER PATROL AGENT, SAN DIEGO SECTOR: Yes. Thank you for having me on.

MACCALLUM: You bet.

SCOTT: So, what our agents faced was we have a report from the Mexican authorities that grew about500 people coming towards the port of entry.  Supposed to be a peaceful protest at first. But they clashed with the Mexican law enforcement just like they had on the southern border of Mexico and just like they had in Guatemala. And they quickly reverted to using violence to get past the Mexican police.

We've been preparing for this for quite a while. So, we had a lot of our riot control equipment out in the field, and specially trained agents out in the field.

Sure enough, as soon as those aliens got close to the border, they immediately engaged the agents by throwing rocks, taunting them at the border. And our agents defended themselves and those around them by deploying the safest tool we had at that time, which is pepper gas if you will. It's basically a pepper-based gas. It's an irritant. There's no long-term effects, I inhaled quite a bit of it myself when I was out there on Sunday, as well.

But we did that just to protect the crowds. It's very unfortunate that some people brought children into that type of an environment, and subjected them to it. But by dispersing that crowd, I believe, in the long run, we actually protected those women and children as well.

MACCALLUM: In terms of what you're seeing there, and what your expectations are down the road, you say that you've actually -- you know, there was so much discussion before the election that this was all hype that people were weeks, even months away with this caravan.

And now, you know, just a few weeks later, we're looking at these scenes of, at least, 100 people climbing over the fences and areas that, that are vulnerable. What -- what's down the road as you look?

SCOTT: So, there's a few things down the road. One, we took this caravan very serious from day one. It's like no caravan we've ever seen before.  You've heard it reports that caravans happen all the time. That's true, but not caravans that have a propensity for this type of violence, and not these massive numbers of people.

We watched as they came up through Mexico, the violence that they were subjecting the Mexican police and military too, we prepared accordingly.  Our immigration system has some holes in it, we've identified those for Congress. And long term, I'm hoping that Congress steps up to the plate and fixes those to shut off the draw.

But in the meantime, I'd like to point out that not a single migrant climbed over the new border wall. We have about eight miles of border wall completed here in San Diego.

Unfortunately, that's not complete. So, the military came over the last several weeks to help us fortify different areas. But if those -- it's those weak areas where we have not upgraded the infrastructure that the migrants were able to breach.

MACCALLUM: So, in terms of arrest, how many people were actually arrested?  Because, you know, there's a lot of discussions that a lot of these people are not violent at all. Some of them clearly are, but you guys are in a difficult position. And obviously, you had to make some arrests. What were the nature of those?

SCOTT: So, there's been some mixed -- I've seen mixed reports about the number of arrests, as well. We arrested -- the U.S. Border Patrol arrested 42 people yesterday. Those were people that illegally entered the United States, the vast majority of them did not surrender. A one significant size group of about 20 plus, I watched them walk past, at least, ten mark units, and a bunch of patrol agents throwing rocks at them, taunting them before our agents were able to kind of corral them about two miles east of the San Ysidro Port of Entry.

Out of that, there were seven -- out of the total 42, there were seven females and there were a few children. But the vast majority were adult males that did not indicate they were trying to claim asylum.

MACCALLUM: And did they indicate -- that what I going to ask you. So, are they seeking asylum, these individuals?

SCOTT: I'd have to go back and look at each one of the reports. History would indicate most of the family units will get past that first stage.  Incredible fear, they will claim fear. They've been very, very well -- they've been coached very well on the trip up here.

But most a lot of times, the males -- single males do not. This specific group, again, walked past at least 10 mark units that they could have walked up to and surrendered. And that would be the normal (INAUDIBLE).  That would be the normal behavior for anybody's coming into the U.S. trying to claim asylum.

These individuals had to be corralled by agents and then arrested. So, they did not walk up and surrender, which is what you would do if you're trying to claim asylum.

MACCALLUM: Chief Rodney Scott, thank you very much. Good to have you with us tonight, sir.

SCOTT: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, here with more on the big picture here, Geraldo Rivera, Fox News correspondent-at-large. Geraldo, good to see you tonight.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: I know, this is something you feel very passionately about.  But when, when people are climbing over the border and they're throwing rocks, what do you -- what would you do to stop them?

RIVERA: Well, I think that a person that throws rocks is committing a crime and they should be arrested. But a couple of points, 42 were arrested yesterday by our agents, and I'm on the same side as the agents.  I -- they are American heroes and I thank them for their service.

42 arrested, but seven were women. That's not an insignificant percentage.  That's about 20 percent. And I think that, that is fairly accurate women and children represent a substantial portion of these economic refugees.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, I would imagine that the women were arrested for something.

RIVERA: Oh no, I'm, I'm --

MACCALLUM: I mean, women are capable of throwing rocks.

RIVERA: Oh, I am mad -- I'm mad in any way being argumentative about that.  What I want to point out is, I think that agent Scott and his men had been let down by Democrats and Republicans.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

RIVERA: They have allowed this wound to fester. This -- I remember so clearly, 2007. I wrote a book about it that year, Hispanic. Where we had the same discussion and the same kinds of scenes that we're seeing now.  They had a compromise bill passed in the Senate. They wouldn't even consider it in the House.

If we have dropped the ball miserably, these folks should not be thought of as the zombies in the Walking Dead or escaped felons from prison. These are men, women, and children seeking a better life from desperate straits.  I don't think that they --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But you cannot climb over the border. That's the way it works.  You have to go through the process, you have to apply for asylum. No matter if you're coming -- you know, from Poland, or Canada, or south of the border, or anywhere else, you have to go through the process.

RIVERA: The process stinks for people in Latin America, particularly.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. It's just for everyone, Geraldo.

RIVERA: they have no -- you know, friends. They have no rabbis, they have no -- you know, fixers. They have no experience attorneys.

MACCALLUM: If you are a worker coming here from Eastern Europe, do you think it's an easy process. You have to spend every penny that you're making to get an attorney to help you get into this country. You -- they make it impossible. There are hours and hours that you wait for an immigration. To say that it's easy for -- I'm saying everyone must be treated the same in this process.

RIVERA: You mentioned someone from Eastern Europe. The person from Eastern Europe is far more likely had to have an attorney and be sophisticated about a process. This are --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: And spend every time they make on it?

RIVERA: These are the poorest people in the world. They are desperately poor people, they live in walking distance obviously from the richest country on earth.

MACCALLUM: Understood, understood, understood.

RIVERA: That the -- if your child is hungry --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But -- so, we could just -- so, they should be all allowed in?

RIVERA: No, no, no. I don't believe in open borders. I believe in a process, I believe in immigration reform. I want the President to get his wall. I want the president -- I want the great wall of Trump to be built.  For it -- for no other reason than to make orderly these chaotic scenes that we see.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

RIVERA: And to funnel them into the official ports of entry. But I need compassion and humanity in return. Amnesty for the DREAMers who've been here for their entire life.

MACCALLUM: But that's what I'm asking because I know you were very upset about the tear gas. I understand that. But what would you recommend?

RIVERA: I am upset about it. I was sickened by it.

MACCALLUM: What would you do? They're throwing rocks and climbing over the wall. What would you do?

RIVERA: We have been following the story for what? About a month now.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

RIVERA: How many fatalities have there been? Zero. How many serious injuries other than from exhaustion, and -- you know, some other road rash.

MACCALLUM: You're not -- you're not answering my question. Climbing over the border, going to the broken area in the wall, what would you do?

RIVERA: This are not -- this are not -- this are not criminals, this are people who want to feed their children. What I would do, what I would have done, is, first of all, convene some kind of regional summit where the president of United States, the president of Mexico, the presidents of Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and Nicaragua, get together, and they say this is not good for anybody.

MACCALLUM: Well, they been working on that with the President of Mexico, in the new president of Mexico.

RIVERA: They been fits and starts Martha. It is pathetic how both sides I believe want to keep this wound festering for their own political advantage.

MACCALLUM: I agree. Absolutely. That's absolutely true.

RIVERA: And I -- and I, I deplore it. I think that there's a compromise to be had. We should shame the politicians on the right and the left to get them to fix this problem. You will always have the desire to emigrate, where you can feed your family. You'll always have that. Particularly, adjacent countries where you can walk.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. But, you're right in that -- you know, because there is no process because of politicians.

RIVERA: Right.

MACCALLUM: And that is the -- that's the open wound here. And everyone sympathizes with these individuals, except for the ones who are throwing rocks who deserve to be arrested. We all -- we all agree on that. But it is, it's Democrats and Republicans who are to blame in this situation.

But I think -- I think most Americans would love to see a process, and immigration reform. But they need to elect people who will actually do it, and I don't know that they have.

RIVERA: I think, Chuck Schumer wants to appeal to the Latino vote for the Democrats. He wants to imprint in their minds that the Democrats are their friends forevermore.

I think that the Republicans, Mitch McConnell, they want an issue that motivates the Republican base. That makes people fearful of the other.  The brown tide washing over our southern border. I think that both these leaders must recognize that the country patriotism calls for a solution to this problem.

MACCALLUM: I want to play this -- I want to show you this tweet from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Who said, "Asking to be considered for a refugee and applying for status, isn't a crime. It wasn't for Jewish families fleeing Germany. It wasn't for targeted families fleeing Rwanda. It wasn't for communities fleeing war-torn Syria. And it wasn't for those fleeing violence in Central America."

Lindsey Graham, responded this way. "I recommend she take a tour of the Holocaust Museum in D.C. Might help her better understand the differences between the Holocaust and the caravan in Tijuana."

RIVERA: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a young idealistic person representing New York's 14th. I know, well my grandchildren lived there, I went to college there. She is tremendously energetic and enthusiastic, and an original thinker.

I absolutely deplore any comparison to the Holocaust unless it's another attempt to annihilate a civilization. And that's clearly not the case here. It's an unfortunate choice of a metaphor for the -- for the young congresswoman-elect.

Having said that, I think her hearts in the right place. And I think that the call, her cry, plaintive cry for compassion is one we should all listen.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And I also just want to point out that you know, the first sentence of this, "Considered a refugee in applying for status is not a crime." According to the Border Patrol, folks that we have spoken to, and the chief who we just spoke to, he is not seeing that.

RIVERA: Well, I --

MACCALLUM: When people get over, saying, "Here I am. I would like to apply for asylum.”

RIVERA: I would surge immigration judges rather than the army so they expedite this process, to make it more orderly.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Geraldo, thank you.

RIVERA: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Always good to see you. Thanks for being here. So, coming up next, the new drama over President Trump's criminal justice reform bill.  Senator Mike Lee on why he's accusing a Republican colleague of spreading fake news on this, next.

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MACCALLUM: The new drama of our president Trump's Criminal Justice Reform Bill. Senator Mike Lee on why he's accusing a Republican colleague of spreading fake news on this next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today I'm thrilled to announce my support for this bipartisan bill that will make our community safer and give former inmates a second chance at life after they have served their time. But I was actually surprised by some like as an example Mike Lee and Rand Paul and others. Now it's got tremendous support at every level.

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MACCALLUM: So that was back on November the 14th, President Trump on criminal justice reform. And that was spurred at least in part by this meeting with Kim Kardashian but he's without the support of at least one GOP senator and potentially two or three more. Tom Cotton of Arkansas says the bad outweighs the good in this first step bill, that it will allow violent criminals to get out early and he's demanding answers from fellow Republican Senator Mike Lee tweeting this. "My colleague Mike Lee, Senator Mike Lee and I have a good faith substance of disagreement on the wisdom of the First-Step Act. By looking at the bill text hopefully, we can at least agree on the facts."

So here now to respond to that tonight, Utah Senator Mike Lee. Senator good to have you with us this evening.

SEN. MIKE LEE, R-UTAH: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Your response to him.

LEE: Yes, my response to him is that this is something that will make the American people safer. Look, President Donald Trump has a strong track record of making the American people safe. And President Donald Trump is the leader of the Republican Party has looked at this bill and understands but we've got to be smart in the way we fight crime. In order to keep the American people safe, we've got to make sure that our federal sentencing system our federal incarceration system is working properly.

This bill makes some minor but very necessary tweaks to our federal criminal justice system and that's why I wholeheartedly endorse it.

MACCALLUM: Well, let me ask you about some of the specific elements of it because it allows for credits for involvement in programs in prison. And if you participate in those programs, some of them are you know rehabilitation programs others apparently according to some definitions go down to you know playing on the basketball team when you're allowed to do that in prison and that kind of community involvement.

But according to Senator Cotton, the following categories are not exempt from receiving these credits, drug-related robberies involving assault, using a deadly weapon to assault a law-enforcement officer, assault resulting in bodily injury to a spouse or child, violent carjacking and tracking and heroin and fentanyl. Your response.

LEE: My response is that none of these people, none of the people in the federal prison system will have any opportunity to participate in these programs unless they're deemed by the Bureau of Prisons to be low-risk or minimal risk. Now, people who engage in the type of violent crime you're describing or rarely if ever going to be deemed eligible for that. And so look, the whole purpose of this program is to identify those who are low or a minimal risk of harm of committing a future crime or of engaging in violent acts, as those who are deemed within those categories will be incentivized to go through programming.

And look it's unfair to say that they will get credit to watch T.V. programs or to play basketball. These are programs that are designed specifically to help reduce the risk of somebody we committing a crime after they get out of prison.

MACCALLUM: Understood. But would it be worth looking at the bill again and perhaps rewriting part of it so that people who have assaulted a law enforcement officer or a member -- or a spouse or a child would never be eligible to have their sentence reduced or do you believe that they should be considered that for that program if indeed they're deemed eligible.

LEE: It's going to have to be on a case-by-case basis. People will have their entire criminal history and their history as an inmate evaluated.  And if any of those people can still be deemed to be a low or minimal risk then they might be eligible to participate only to the extent deemed appropriate.

MACCALLUM: How the vote looking on this? Because Senator McConnell basically said you know, look, if there's 60 votes and the sponsors want to bring it to the floor, they can bring it to the floor. Although he didn't sound like it was high on his list. You also have Senators Kennedy, Graham, and potentially Rubio, you know, sounding like they're a little bit on the fence on their yes on this.

LEE: No. Senator Graham is 100 percent yes. Senator Rubio hasn't announced a decision. He's still looking at the bill. I can tell you though, Martha, we have well in excess, far in excess of 60 votes. This thing is going to pass if it comes to the floor and that's why we're calling on Senator McConnell to bring it to the floor.

MACCALLUM: All right, I do want to ask you about the climate change report that came out on Friday. You were asked about it over the weekend and you said that you believe that the programs and the, you know, potential fixes for global warming would cost the economy dearly and that you hadn't seen anything that you thought would be able to improve the economy in the fix.  And yet this report says that it's going to take as much as a ten percent bite out of the economy, out of GDP. So how do you square those two things?

LEE: Well, so say the people who really want those government programs, so say the people who want a carbon tax. Let's unravel that a little bit.

MACCALLUM: OK.

LEE: Let's think about what a carbon tax means. This is a tax on poor and middle-class Americans who will find that everything they buy not just when they refill their car but when they fill their grocery cart is going to be more expensive. If they're comfortable putting high tax on poon middle- class Americans on the basis of some promise that maybe this might over the next century have some fraction of a degree of difference in global temperature, a difference that's difficult to measure and for scientists to agree on, I've got a problem with that.

MACCALLUM: All right, I hope they'll get into it more later. Thank you very much, Senator Mike Lee. Good to see you tonight. Thank you, sir.

LEE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So coming up, Nancy Pelosi says that she's the best person to service House Speaker. Do you know that? She has said that quite a bit.  The Democratic opposition appears to be mounting with just two days until a key vote in her party. Jason Chaffetz and Robert Zimmerman up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: I have overwhelming support in my caucus to be Speaker of the House. I happen to think that at this point I'm the best person for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Nancy Pelosi will soon face her biggest test yet in her battle to reclaim the Speaker's gavel. In less than 48 hours from now, House Democrats will vote on their Speaker nominee in a closed-door meeting. But according to the Washington Post tally, she's coming up short. Pelosi faces opposition from 22 Democrats but can only afford to lose 16 votes.  So will she be able to gain ground by Wednesday?

Jason Chaffetz who once ran for House Speaker and is now Fox News Contributor, Robert Zimmerman is a DNC Committee Member and Co-founder of Zimmerman/Edelson Public Relationship. Welcome, good to have both of you.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, COMMITTEE MEMBER, DNC: Good to be with you.

MACCALLUM: So Robert, you kind of smiled and laughed a little bit when I read that number. Do you think that's not true?

ZIMMERMAN: I think the best counter in terms of tabulating House votes is not the Washington Post, it is Nancy Pelosi. And spoiler alert, Martha, she has the votes. And the sure sign of that is her top critics like Congressman Seth Moulton now wants to negotiate. If that is the Democrats on the Problem Solvers Caucus who were Trump enablers, they're now wanting to negotiate. That's a sign that in fact, Nancy Pelosi said a couple of weeks ago she has the votes to be elected Speaker once again.

MACCALLUM: I want to talk to you about the House -- the Problem Solvers Caucus because you know, you said they're Trump -- what did you call them?

ZIMMERMAN: The Trump enablers.

MACCALLUM: Trump enablers. So, they would potentially be people who might be interested in reaching across the aisle, but you sound like you want nothing to do with them, Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, actually, it's not about what they are doing. And interesting to note the problem solvers caucus didn't do anything to change the rules to make the process in the House more Democratic when the Republicans were in the majority.

And now the Democrats are going to be the majority, all of a sudden, they want to change the rules. And what they are creating is more gridlock. I'm a strong believer in bipartisanship, I've actually worked with Republicans on bipartisan legislation, but when you have members of the caucus led by some individual like Josh Gottheimer or Tom Suozzi and they continue to defend or support Donald Trump, or in fact, support many of the right-wing initiatives that are in fact contrary--

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: That is not going fly.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: It's not going to build -- it's not going to build bipartisanship that way.

MACCALLUM: Jason Chaffetz, would you think?

JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, he is contradicting himself, these are people that do want to reach across the aisle, and the -- my God, the other guest on the show, the only reason they don't them to do is because it is Donald Trump.

Look, Nancy Pelosi does not have the votes, the reason that they had to delay the vote for two weeks from the normal consistent way they did is because she doesn't have the votes. Now it's not -- you don't just have to have the majority of the Democrats, you have to have the majority of the House of Representatives.

And so, it will be interesting, and she should go on the record, are they or are they not going to publicly release the votes that she gets in that caucus meeting, because it's not just the majority, they have to tell you the exact number of how many votes that she got.

MACCALLUM: All right.

ZIMMERMAN: Let me tell you something, Jason, you don't achieve bipartisan from a position of weakness, you have to be able to hold your ground so that you can then negotiate for common ground with your opponents.

MACCALLUM: Yes. But it is interesting, Robert. When you look at the people who sort of been, you know, rejected and jettisoned in this process, they are the moderates. And many of these--

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: Not correct.

MACCALLUM: Many of these candidates -- hold on. Many of these candidates who ran to, you know, somewhere in the middle and were elected in some of these suburban districts across America are now being told, you know, just to take your ball and go home. If you want a committee, you know, -- if you want to be a committee leader, anything along those lines you got to sign on, $15 minimum wage, raising taxes on businesses and individuals. Those are the prices for entering.

ZIMMERMAN: Let me be clear, Martha. In fact, you are seeing Nancy Pelosi support come from suburban Democrats and the Democrats who won the cycle. In fact, if you talk about mainstream values, where the Democrats did best at where the economy was strongest, that's where the Republicans did worse.

Democrats got not just a historic number of votes in the midterm election, over -- almost nine million more than Republicans, they won a record number of Democratic seats, and they did it by standing up for minimum wage, who supported by the mainstream of this country.

(CROSSTALK)

CHAFFETZ: No, they didn't.

ZIMMERMAN: Fighting for climate change achievement.

CHAFFETZ: No, they didn't.

MACCALLUM: Go ahead, Jason.

ZIMMERMAN: And standing up -- standing to Russian aggression--

CHAFFETZ: No, they didn't.

ZIMMERMAN: -- but some Republicans refuse to do, Jason.

MACCALLUM: Go ahead, Jason.

CHAFFETZ: Under Barack Obama, I was there, he lost 63 seats. Granted the Republicans lost 40, but don't tell me they are setting new records on the numbers of people. That's not true.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely. The most Democrats since 1974. Jason, check your facts. And it's the largest--

(CROSSTALK)

CHAFFETZ: Congratulations, I am seven years old, OK.

ZIMMERMAN: --votes the Democrats ever done in a midterm.

MACCALLUM: You know what, I also don't think the American people care about who won more seats in the off year, I think they care about things like putting something together on immigration reform.

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely right.

MACCALLUM: Which both sides seem to love being opposed to each other on.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: Let's look--

MACCALLUM: And you look at what's happening to people at this border and you ask yourself why there was why President Trump's proposal for DACA and to allow 1.8 million DACA members to stay and return for the security of the border.

CHAFFETZ: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Why that was--

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: Because he withdrew the proposal, Martha, because in fact, Democrat said that they would cut that deal, he backed away from it.

MACCALLUM: So, would they take that deal today?

CHAFFETZ: No, they didn't.

ZIMMERMAN: Democrats are committed first of all to more border security, they're committed to protecting DACA, but Democrats also have to protect--

(CROSSTALK)

CHAFFETZ: You can't take to one thing, point to one thing that you support.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

MACCALLUM: OK. We got a lot to go. Go ahead, Jason.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

MACCALLUM: Last thought.

ZIMMERMAN: Go for it, Jason.

CHAFFETZ: Democrats can't point to a single piece of legislation or anything they would actually do to block down and support the border. Not one thing.

ZIMMERMAN: Democrats voted for border -- for the 800 miles of border fence, Jason.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I got to go.

ZIMMERMAN: You were there at the time.

MACCALLUM: Yes. They essentially wanted a wall.

(CROSSTALK)

CHAFFETZ: You won't fund the border fence. You got to fund it. You got to fund it.

MACCALLUM: President Obama, Hillary Clinton, but now they don't seem to want it anymore. All right, guys, thank you very much.

ZIMMERMAN: Great to be with you.

MACCALLUM: You, too. God to have you.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: All right. Still head, stick around, gentlemen, because Barbra Streisand is coming up next. She is taking on President Trump and the women who have the goal to vote for him. Benson and Harf, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Some news breaking tonight in the Russia investigation, special counsel Robert Mueller now accusing former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort of breaching the plea deal that he made. Mueller's team says that after pleading guilty and signing that agreement Manafort committed federal crimes by lying to the FBI in a special counsel's office, which, quote, "constitutes a breach of that agreement."

The Manafort's side says they want to go forward with sentencing so we will see where that goes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: As President Trump said many times, the United States would welcome a normal relationship with Russia. But outlaw actions like this one continue to make that impossible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was earlier today at the U.N. and in what could become an act of war. Russia has seized 23 Ukraine sailors. Some of them are wounded, according to the ambassador. They took three ships of Ukraine's. This is the biggest provocations since the hostile annexation of Crimea and the aggressive moves made four years ago into Ukraine.

So, what is Russia doing, and with Ukraine asking us to back them what will President Trump do? Trace Gallagher has a story for us from our West Coast newsroom tonight. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Nobody is disputing the Russian Coast Guard vessel deliberately rammed the Ukrainian navy tugboat. In fact, you can hear audio of the Russian captain telling his crew to hit the tug. Russia claims the Ukrainian vessels were maneuvering dangerously.

Ukraine accuses Russia of continuing its campaign of annexation, saying the Russians are trying to take control of shared waterways, specifically the Kerch Strait, which is the only maritime access to the Sea of Azov, home to some of Ukraine's biggest and most vital economic port cities.

In response to the Russian capture of three Ukrainian vessels and 23 crew members, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has taken the extraordinary and unprecedented step of imposing martial law which calls for the immediate mobilization of naval forces, increase security around critical infrastructure, and a tightening of security at borders with Russia.

Though experts are quick to remind the world that Ukraine is badly outnumbered and outgunned by the Russian military and that this increasing tension needs an international solution.

Here's outgoing U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley in today's emergency U.N. Security Council session. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: This is no way for a law-abiding civilized nation to act. Impeding Ukraine's lawful transit through the Kerch Strait is a violation under international law. It is an arrogant act that the international community must condemn and will never accept.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: When President Trump was asked about the conflict he immediately went after Russia saying we're not happy about it and we've made our position known, but moments later, the president appeared to blame both sides. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We not like what's happening either way, we don't like what's happening. And hopefully, they'll get straighten out. I know Europe is not -- they are not thrilled. They're working on it too. We're all working on it together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Yes, even though Moscow's aggressive action has been condemned by Germany, the U.K., Canada, and a dozen other nations experts say President Trump's action will set the tone and allowing Vladimir Putin to believe there are no consequences could prove to be dangerous.

Remember, this all comes just days before Putin and President Trump are expected to meet at the G-20 meeting in Argentina. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much.

So, coming up, Barbra Streisand lashes out at President Trump, and not just him. Also, any woman who voted for him, saying, they were just following their husband's lead, they didn't even know what they were doing.

What is Benson and Harf think about this. We'll be right back with that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: It seems to stay in for President doesn't go far enough among some in Hollywood. Now even his supporters are getting caught in the crosshairs. Singer-actress and outspoken Trump critic Barbara Streisand is very, very upset about the Trump presidency out with a new video calling President Trump a liar and tearing into his female supporters too.

Telling the Daily Mail, quote, "A lot of women vote the way their husbands vote. They don't believe enough in their own thoughts. Maybe that's woman who is so articulate, so experiences and so fit for the presidency - Hillary - was just too intimidating for them."

So, here now direct from their radio studio in Washington, Benson and Harf. Guy Benson and Marie Harf, host of Fox News radio Benson and Harf.

So, Marie, Hillary was too successful and that was intimidating to women voters so they just voted for the guy that their husband was going to vote for. This sounds very familiar. Hillary said, it's all about pressure to vote the way that your husband, your boss, your son whoever believes that you should.

MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS RADIO CO-HOST: Yes. Martha, I really don't like that kind of language or that kind of rhetoric. I don't think it's helpful and I also don't think it's necessarily true. So, I don't know what Barbara Streisand is trying to do. I don't know what voters she's trying to speak to here, but I don't think when we're looking forward to 2020 that that's a helpful message for Democrats.

What I will say is that in 2018 Republicans lost female voters by the largest margin they've lost them since 1982. So, bigger picture here Republicans have a problem with female voters, particularly in the suburbs and that's what I think is the more interesting story heading into 2020.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HARF: I'm sort of bored by this Barbra Streisand rhetoric. Look, I just -- I don't know.

MACCALLUM: But, you know, I mean, it may be that she's trying to speak exactly to that group, you know. Like if you made this dumb mistake before because the guy in your life told you, you should vote for Donald Trump, don't let it happen again, which I think, and Guy, I know, you wrote this in some of the points you made earlier is incredibly sexist and offensive to all women.

GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS RADIO CO-HOST: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Democrats Republicans alike.

BENSON: It's been patronizing. Yes, totally patronizing. And first of all, I think this is in the context Marie saying what is Barbara Streisand is up to. I think she os trying to be relevant. She's trying to sell a new album, which is a resistance to Trump record, and I cannot, words cannot describe how unexcited I am for that new piece of work.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I love funny girl.

HARF: We agree on that.

MACCALLUM: I love funny girl. And even, you know, yes, even the Christmas album, the Barbara Streisand Christmas album.

HARF: Yes.

BENSON: I'm going to take a pass, a hard pass on all of that, Martha, to be honest, but I'm going to say this. This idea that women have to think a certain way or they're not fully women. Or maybe they're just intimidated by the men in their lives. That is such I think a condescending thing to say.

The fact of the matter is there are tens of millions of American women who want lower taxes, stronger military, secure borders who are pro-life, they think for themselves and they make their choices accordingly. And I think to try to endear yourself to that group through touting and wagging your finger it's not going to work, it's going to annoy people.

MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, I mean, Hillary as I said, Taylor Swift also came up basically, and told women that they needed to absolutely vote Democrat in the midterm race--

(CROSSTALK)

BENSON: Taylor--

HARF: Taylor said that everyone should vote Democrat actually. I don't think her--

(CROSSTALK)

BENSON: She was better--

HARF: -- her message wishes for women.

BENSON: She was less ham-handed than Hillary and Barbra Streisand.

MACCALLUM: Well, I have to wonder if she's going to, you know, venture into, you know, because she really was famous for not telling people how to vote in the past.

HARF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And staying out of it. And you just have to wonder if may be, you know, she feels like, maybe it won't be such a great idea next time.

But you know, just 15 seconds from each of you. You know, when you look at how women are approached in the next election, Marie makes a great point, Guy in terms of what Republicans really do have their work cut out for them with this group.

BENSON: Yes. I think that's definitely true, Republicans have to look at those numbers and not just say, well everything will be fine. There were clearly some policies and statements that were made that alienated a lot of women, but haranguing them, especially white women for thinking for themselves and thinking other thoughts, that is not going to be an asset for the left.

MACCALLUM: Yes, that's not a popular thought.

(CROSSTALK)

HARF: And a lot of those--

MACCALLUM: Go ahead.

HARF: A lot of Trump women are not going to be there in 2020 given everything he's done over the past several years in office. I just think he is going to lose them.

BENSON: Well, we'll see.

MACCALLUM: We will see. Thank you, guys.

BENSON: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Evergreen also a good Barbara Streisand song, but nobody wants to go there. Thank you.

Tweet me your favorite Barbara Streisand song.

All right. Coming up in just a moment, a remarkable story that a young teen who was once scared and alone in his school's seclusion room takes his traumatic experience to Washington. He is fighting for change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Tonight, an incredible story of a 13-year-old young man who is fighting for change and the end of the bizarre and awkward practice of school's occlusion rooms. At just seven years old Alex Campbell, who has autism spectrum disorder was put in a quote, "crisis room" at his elementary school, essentially a storage closet for children who act out.

Alex was sent more than half a dozen times, sometimes coming home with marks and bruises. He said the experience left him feeling scared and alone. But now he is strong and he is meeting with members of Congress to advocate for change now.

Here now, Alex Campbell, and his father, Sean Campbell. Welcome to both of you. Good to have you with us tonight. Alex, I know that you are speaking out about this and that you want to see an end to this. But explain to people who don't know. And we're going to put up a picture of the seclusion room. What is it and why were you sent there?

ALEX CAMPBELL, KEEPING ALL STUDENTS SAFE ACT: Basically, a seclusion room is a place school's staff member takes a child and locks in the room and is typically a converted storage closet. And I was mostly taken to seclusion room for things like not following directions. And just a lot of little things were the seclusion room is not really necessary.

MACCALLUM: And you talk about the room being having dark walls and you could hear them sliding desk in front of the doors so that you couldn't get out.

And now, Sean, you are an educator yourself, fourth-generation and educators and you make a very good point that it would be illegal for a parent to lock their child in a room. Why is it not for school to do so?

SEAN CAMPBEL, ALEX CAMPBELL'S FATHER: And that's the question that we've all been asking, you know, if we were to do this at home, we would have Child Protective Services banging on my door, but because I'm a certified teacher and the same act is done on the school setting it's perfectly legal in the state of Virginia.

And what we found is that there are some states that have regulations in place to prevent this but there are some states that don't and it's just a very disjointed way of how -- of how it's being addressed and there really needs to be some type of consistency.

MACCALLUM: Alex, what was the impact of all this on you?

A. CAMPBELL: I really feel like having this all done it just made me want to come out and fight against it and that's really what I've done. I'm -- I've started at the state level and now we're up to the national level involving restraint and seclusion regulations.

MACCALLUM: You know, Alex, and I admire you for what you are doing because I think a lot of people have no idea this is happening and I think it's really important.

Sean, talk to me about, you know, from the teacher's perspective, right, if they have a student who is disruptive in the class, right, and they need to separate that student so that it's not too distracting for the other students, what's the better way to manage this situation?

S. CAMPBELL: Well, at DLE any teachers can have multiple tools in their toolbox. One thing that teachers could use as type a sensory room. A sensory room there's been a lot of confusion about the difference between a seclusion room and a sensory room. Well, a sensory room is a place that's open that students go in and out freely and they have things like fidget toys or beanbag chairs. Things that can help children de-escalate and really embrace that common techniques.

The other things that teachers can do really is that having a proper training and really looking at the de-escalation techniques because most children just don't snap, you know, in the blink of an eye. You can actually watch them as they ramp up and being attuned to watching children ramp up and then addressing that appropriately before you have to resort to calling the principal and having the child direct out of the room.

MACCALLUM: And I just want to say before we go that you were also told not to tell anyone that this was being done to you while you're at school which is obviously wrong.

Alex and Sean, thank you for bringing everyone's attention to this. We appreciate you being here tonight. And good luck with your mission.

A. CAMPBELL: Thank you.

S. CAMPBELL: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So that is our “Story” on this Monday night. We're back here again of course tomorrow night at 7 o'clock. Now we take you to Washington, D.C., and Tucker Carlson is coming up next. Good night, everybody.

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