Transcript: Photographic Evidence

This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," January 19, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Several hours after honeymooner George Smith IV disappeared from his cruise ship cabin, a passenger spotted blood on the ship's canopy. After an investigation by Turkish police was complete, the blood was cleaned up and the ship continued on its way. What, if anything, can pictures of the blood tell us now, six months later, about George Smith's mysterious disappearance?

Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden joins us live in New York.

DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Hi, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Hello, Dr. Baden. You've examined lots of crime scenes, looked at lots of blood. Looking at this stain, can it tell us anything?

BADEN: Sure, it tells us a lot. We have to remember that it was there for many hours, with the sea spray going over it, so it's been modified by the humidity and water from the spray. But still, in that wide shot, over toward 2:00 o'clock, there's some separated what appears to be blood smears. And that could indicate some movement on the part of Mr. Smith when he wound up in that situation.

We don't have a ruler in the picture, but it does look like it's spread over a few feet. And there's one area, toward about 7:00 o'clock, that there seems to be a pooling of the blood. So it would seem that when he fell out onto this canopy, he lay there for a little bit of time while the blood pooled in that area off center, about 7:00 o'clock. And there was some smearing and some motion before, presumably, he fell off the edge.

VAN SUSTEREN: If there were blood on the railing of the balcony, would that tell you anything? And we don't know that there is, but we kind of piece it together.

BADEN: That's right. That's one of the things that the FBI and I think Dr. Henry Lee is going over to try and get some information for the family, is that if he was bleeding before he went over the railing, that would have great significance in indicating he was injured before he went over. That isn't absolute evidence of homicide, but it points in that direction.

VAN SUSTEREN: So I take it that if you found blood inside the cabin, it would be the same argument, that it would appear to be more likely to be homicide than accident, but not necessarily indicative of it.

BADEN: That's right. And also, he had been drinking. We don't know what his blood alcohol was. But he'd been drinking. So people sometimes can accidentally fall out of a window or over a railing. But as you demonstrated when you were there, this railing is, what, about five feet high. So you can't accidentally fall over this railing. And it would be important to know whether he was depressed.

And this is, Greta, the same thing in New York City or Washington, D.C., somebody falls out of a window and is found on the sidewalk. When the police come, when the medical examiner comes, they look at the body, but they can't tell. They can tell the cause of death but not accident, suicide or homicide, just by looking at the body. They have to get information. Was there a struggle? Did the neighbors and the next-door people hear anything? Was he depressed? And all of that is going to help resolve the manner of death, but may not be enough to go to court on.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Dr. Baden. Thank you, sir.

BADEN: Thank you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live on the phone is former LAPD homicide detective Mark Fuhrman. Mark, to take it one step further, the discussion that I was just having with Dr. Baden, is that there was a chair that was pushed up against the balcony. Could have either been used as a ladder in a suicide or even an accident, but it could also be used as sort of a means to sort of hoist a body, right?

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Oh, it certainly could, Greta. And I think Dr. Baden made a great point. Even if you have the body, you have a body that fell from a high place, you can't tell an injury to the face that happened before or during the fall. You have to go back to the location where the victim fell from, was pushed from or jumped from. And then, when you see that — you're absolutely right. Is there an inconsistency with somebody falling? Yes, a high banister, and it doesn't appear that there is the absence of noise or the absence of anybody in there with the victim.

So now you have to go back and say, OK, we've got noise. We've got furniture that's moving. And I went over the transcript you did on the show the previous day. You know, they say, Well, you know, you can move this rather easily, it wouldn't make any noise. Thank you very much. That means that somebody was slamming that furniture around, that there was loud voices, so much that people were awakened by this. There was a disturbance there which is consistent with some kind of behavior in there that was most probably violent.

And now you find that you have the blood pattern on the canopy. And yes, you are looking for minute traces of blood. The victim might not have started to bleed significantly until he got outside and his head was down, or something along those lines. His hair could have clotted the blood from a head injury until he got outside.

So it's unfortunate, but you need some kind of real law enforcement to investigate this immediately and secure this completely and absolutely away from anyone else touching it.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, we have 30 seconds left. Is it too late?

FUHRMAN: Well, we don't know what's in there. And certainly, it would seem compromised, at the very least. It's not too late. But you know, there's something going on, just like in Aruba. In Aruba, you can't have two suspects and give one immunity because they don't have it. Well, this is a tool in America that we use. When you have multiple people, there's somebody more culpable than the next. A trained detective, an investigator, you pick who that person is, you work him and say, OK, you want to testify? You want to tell us what's going on here? We'll give you immunity and you walk on this, but you need to tell us what's going on here.

I don't know if this is under the jurisdiction of the Turkish government because that's the waters in which it occurred.

VAN SUSTEREN: At least the FBI one thing we do know, Mark, is that the FBI here in the United States now is looking at it, and maybe they'll be able to provide us some answers. But I got to go. Mark, thank you.

FUHRMAN: Thank you.

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