Potential Explosive New Evidence in the Peterson Trial
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}This is a partial transcript from On the Record with Greta Van Susteren, May 19, 2004 that has been edited for clarity.
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GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Tonight: Potentially explosive evidence reportedly surfaces in the Scott Peterson double murder trial. "People" magazine reports a blood-stained blue tarp was sent to he judge. The sender has identified himself as "Citizen Q." He joins us now on the phone. We will respect his wish to remain anonymous and by his request, call him simply "Citizen Q."
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}Welcome, sir. And tell us first, where did you find this blue tarp?
"CITIZEN Q", FOUND POTENTIAL PETERSON EVIDENCE: Well, I found it along the lagoon at the Albany Bulb.
VAN SUSTEREN: And when you say the lagoon, can you give me an idea of how close that is to where the bodies of Conner and Laci surfaced?
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}"CITIZEN Q": I'll estimate 400 feet. It's the next shore. It's hard for me to...
VAN SUSTEREN: When -- when did you find this tarp?
"CITIZEN Q": February 19, 2004.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And where has it been since you found it?
"CITIZEN Q": It's been at my location. I gathered the tarp, and I snapped some images of it. I put it in my knapsack, and then I took it home and I put it in a plastic bag until it got to the judge, Delucchi.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did you send it to the judge in the Peterson case?
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}"CITIZEN Q": I believe it was about two weeks ago.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you wait until two weeks ago?
"CITIZEN Q": I was gathering a report for the judge regarding a lot of different discoveries in a few different crimes, evidence of crime on location. So I wanted to get the whole report together for him and then send everything in one shot.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, to be fair to the police who investigated this case and others, you have no way to say for certain whether this is connected to the Laci Peterson murder. You simply found this, were suspicious of it, and forwarded it to the judge. Is that fair to say?
"CITIZEN Q": Exactly. Exactly. And I should say that the tarp did not -- the soil, or these stains that are being discussed are actually soil.
VAN SUSTEREN: And not blood, which is what is being reported. And I assume that now that the judge has it, that if the judge thinks it's worthy of investigation, they will submit it for forensic testing. Thank you for joining us.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}"CITIZEN Q": Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Let's get straight to our panel. Joining us from San Francisco is former Assistant DA Jim Hammer. In New York is forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden...
DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Hi, Greta.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: ... and here in Washington -- hello, Dr. Baden -- are defense attorneys Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams. Ted is also a former homicide detective.
Dr. BADEN, you and I have actually been out there, walked that area.
BADEN: Right.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: What do you make of this tarp and the discovery more than a year -- or a year later?
BADEN: I think it doesn't establish that it's related to the Laci Peterson death. Certainly, if the blood turns out to match Laci Peterson's, then it's very important. If the tarp matches, by microscopic or chemical analysis, a tarp that was in the Peterson home, that would be important. But as of now, it's another piece of debris. We saw lots of debris in our walking along the shore months ago.
VAN SUSTEREN: And Dr. Baden, looking at those pictures, at least for me, that tarp looks pretty clean, unless the water, of course, is constantly cleaning it. But it seems to me if that had been sitting out there a long time, it would look -- at least from the photograph, it would look a it will more rugged, like it had more filth on it.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}BADEN: Oh, yes. Except that in one of the stories that he -- that's on the Web site, on the Scott Peterson Web site, supposedly, "Citizen Q" found it underneath a manhole cover in a protected area of the water. So that would have to be taken into consideration. But clearly, that wasn't floating around for many months in the water.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jim, if you're the prosecutor on this case, all of a sudden, this tarp shows up in the judge's chambers, what do you do?
JIM HAMMER, FORMER SAN FRANCISCO ASST. DA: Well, you get a little nervous, first of all, because it doesn't fit your theory. You've only got about a week or two to -- you know, to change your case around. But I think Dr. Baden said it right. If there are two key pieces of evidences -- that is, something tying into Laci Peterson, in terms of her blood, and then some chemical or fiber evidence from Scott Peterson's house, it'd be a bombshell of a piece of evidence. So the first thing you do is you get it to a crime lab right away. You test it, you hold your breath, and you hope it either supports your theory or it's not related to the case at all, which is, frankly, my guess in this case.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie?
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what I find fascinating is that I watched tape of you and Dr. Baden probably walking along the shoreline not too far from this tomb(ph) area where this John Q. claims he found this. But in addition...
VAN SUSTEREN: "Citizen Q" it is.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}GRIMM: Citizen. "Citizen Q" like...
VAN SUSTEREN: I didn't choose that name, by the way. And I don't want anyone...
HAMMER: "Q" is from James Bond.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: ... to write in accusing me of choosing that name! But go ahead.
GRIMM: Like "Citizen Kane," I guess, which I was supposed to read in high school and I never got past the introduction. But at any rate, it's fascinating to me that no police officers, no crime scene officers, nobody in Coast Guard boats found any of this. And I mean, they were gobbling up every piece of evidence.
VAN SUSTEREN: Apparently, it was hidden. I mean, at least, what I understand from what Dr.Baden was saying from this Web site, it sort of tucked -- it was tucked away in, like, a manhole pipe area.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}GRIMM: Right. And along a river, they'll have I guess what are called sink wells (ph). But to me, as an investigator -- I talked to Ted right before the show -- that would be -- it's like a manhole cover. Thatwould be the first place that Ted would look for something like this.
VAN SUSTEREN: Unless it was discovered in February, Ted, and it was put there a week earlier,in January.
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Greta...
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: Or a month earlier.
WILLIAMS: "Citizen Q," as far as I'm concerned in everything I've heard, is full of it. It's as simple as that. I don't believe any of this. And I need to be very candid. When a guy comes on television and says that he is "gathering reports" for the judge, I have a serious problem. Now, he found this, he said, February the 19th, 2004. Why didn't he turn it in to the court right away? This guy is someone who I believe has sent other information in to Judge Delucchi. He's disingenuous.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know -- but let me -- let me...
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}WILLIAMS: I don't believe...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Let me say one thing in defense. I actually do not believe this is part of the Laci Peterson case simply because it showed up too late. And I would hope that the police had(UNINTELLIGIBLE) But there are a lot of people out there who are so fascinated by this case, they're almost like these private detectives out there, combing it, writing books, writing -- taking notes. I get e-mails from the courtroom.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}WILLIAMS: But they become so delusionally fascinated with the case that what they -- all of a sudden, they merge themself into the case, and they really are not part...
VAN SUSTEREN: And -- and...
WILLIAMS: ... and parcel of the case.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: And (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I'll do one more thing in his defense, is that we had to find him. He -- you know, he did not willingly join us, so -- but anyway, Jim, my guess, if I were to guess, nothing to do with the case.
HAMMER: Nothing to do -- and I'll guess, in fact. Are we taking bets this week? My bet this week would be there's no Laci Peterson blood on this. It's not tied to Scott Peterson. I'll bet you 10 bucks, Ted, Bernie or Greta.
WILLIAMS: No, no. I'll never take that bet.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie, but you can't ignore it.
GRIMM: Oh, no. It was sent to the judge. And as -- Hammer is right. You hold your breath, and if it comes up that there's -- the hair and fiber Dr. Baden mentioned matches anything in the Peterson household -- which can be matched, believe it or not. People don't think it can, but it can be matched as consistent with a rug or a tarp in his house or his garage, or there's blood on that and it matches statistically to DNA to Laci, then that opens up a whole new can of worms here.
VAN SUSTEREN: Dr. Baden, the place, though, with all due respect to San Francisco Bay, was a mess. I mean, there was a lot of stuff around there, wasn't there.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}BADEN: Right. Yes. There was a lot of material. But I agree with everybody else. I think that this is another red herring.
VAN SUSTEREN: But I suppose the judge has got to look at it and...
BADEN: Oh, absolutely.
{{#rendered}} {{/rendered}}VAN SUSTEREN: And if it turns out to have some relationship to the case, of course, we're all going to deny we said that it was...
(LAUGHTER)
BADEN: ... that it's a bombshell.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... every single one of us. I hope they don't re-rack the tape on us!
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