Haley on the New York Times, Kavanaugh and US foreign policy

close

Video

Haley on the New York Times, Kavanaugh and US foreign policy

President Trump to visit the UN and lead meeting; UN Ambassador Nikki Haley shares insight on 'The Story.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," September 20, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL ANCHOR: The flag was tattered from the fierce winds of Hurricane Florence last week. Frying Pan Tower took to Facebook today to say, "Old Glory, still hanging on there. And we are going out ASAP to retire her with honor." Congratulations.

Thanks for inviting us into your home tonight. That's it for this 'Special Report.' Fair, balanced, and unafraid. Here's Martha. Hey, Martha.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Hey there, Bret. Thank you very much.

Breaking moments ago, Brett Kavanaugh says he will be there, first thing Monday morning to testify. Mixed signals this evening from his accuser and we are hearing that we may get an update on this situation any minute on where this whole thing stands. This as this story continues it slowly slide into the abyss as the dirty politics of our time are now giving us a crystal clear example of just how bad things really are.

We learned today that both Judge Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford and their families are the subjects of vile attacks on social media, and apparently death threats. This is what happens when politicians hijack a claim that then takes the media and the public from zero to 60 in no time. Allowing an allegation to become a conviction in a hot second.

Here is a story that was tweeted today by the Yale Daily News as just an example, we have several. It shows fraternity brothers of Brett Kavanaugh is back in the 80s with a flag that they're waving made bras part of a pledge thing.

Clarification tweets followed, fessing up the -- oh, by the way, not actually Brett Kavanaugh in the picture anywhere but somehow it's supposed to prove that he's guilty of something, I assume, by association. Seems fair, right?

Also, on the other side, reports about Christine Ford's high school yearbooks on social media. Claiming that those Holton-Arms girls where she went to school were always drunk at parties all the time in high school. So, you get the idea on both sides, right?

The consequences of all this already becoming apparent. Here is Tammy Bruce, calling -- describing what she calls the revictimization of Christine Ford. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMMY BRUCE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think Dianne Feinstein thought the accusation alone would knock this nomination off of its seat, and that's what they expected. And she's finding, the doctors finding, and we're all finding that they were wrong.

And now, you know what they're doing? They are infantilizing her and they are revictimizing her by saying she's emotionally not prepared, she's being bullied, she can't do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: More on the frightening justice -- injustice of what is happening in this door in a moment. But first, there's some breaking new developments this evening on the confirmation battle with Judge Kavanaugh himself speaking out this evening. Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts, live at the White House this evening with that new information for us. Hi, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening to you. The White House has been watching closely the negotiations going on between attorneys for Christine Blasey Ford and the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The White House confirmation team here that is trying to shepherd through Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation has been planning for an appearance that he will make at the Judiciary Committee hearing on Monday.

Judge Kavanagh himself putting out a statement within the past half hour saying, "Thank you for the invitation to appear before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary on Monday, September 24th. I will be there. I look forward to the opportunity to testify before the Committee. I continue to want a hearing as soon as possible so that I can clear my name.

Since the moment I first heard this allegation, I have categorically and unequivocally denied it. I remain committed to defending my integrity."

But whether that hearing will happen on Monday is increasingly in question, Debra Katz, who is Christine Blasey Ford's lead attorney sent a letter to the Committee, saying, "She wishes to testify, provided that we can agree on terms that are fair and which ensure her safety. A hearing on Monday is not possible."

Katz also appeared to drop her initial demand that the FBI launched an investigation into the allegation prior to a hearing writing, "Her strong preference," note the word "preference", "continues to be for the Senate Judiciary Committee to allow for a full investigation prior to her testimony."

The Judiciary Committee, says that it has already been investigating this alleged incident. Interviewing Judge Kavanaugh on Monday, his high school friend, Mark Judge, and two other people all under penalty of perjury and felony, and has offered to let Ford testify in whatever forum makes her comfortable.

But Democrats today claimed, Ford is not being treated fairly. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, D—N.Y., SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I consider that to be bullying. I consider that to be disregarding. I consider that to be something set up for failure. They would like a he- said, she-said, scenario.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Now, Martha, you mentioned at the top how ugly this is getting. At the same time, Democrats complain Ford is being bullied, Kavanaugh supporters released hate-filled e-mails that have been sent to Kavanaugh's wife Ashley. The e-mails which Fox News has heavily redacted because of the extremely obscene language are being investigated by the Department of Justice as a potential threat.

In Congress, some Republicans are now shifting their position. Senator Jeff Flake who said he couldn't proceed in a confirmation vote unless there was a hearing now says, if Ford doesn't show up on Capitol Hill, the committee should proceed to a vote. Susan Collins who has been on the fence about Kavanaugh is urging forward to come forward. And Florida Senator Marco Rubio indicated a no-show by Ford would definitely be a turning point. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R—FLA., SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: She shouldn't be criticized for not doing it. Number two, we can't force her and we shouldn't try to. But then, the Senate has to move forward based on the information we have before us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: I talked to White House officials -- senior White House officials just a short time ago, Martha. They say they are confident that when all is said and done, Kavanaugh will find himself on the Supreme Court.

MACCALLUM: John, thank you very much. So, here now with more, Tammy Bruce, president of the Independent Women's Voice and a Fox News contributor. And Marsha Catron, a former press secretary for Senator Dianne Feinstein. Thank you very much both of you for being here.

BRUCE: Sure. Hi, there.

MACCALLUM: Marsha, let me go to you. What do you -- what do you think is at work here? You know, we're getting sort of these mixed messages about whether or not they're demanding an FBI investigation. We know that the Senate Judiciary Committee has an ongoing investigation. And you just heard about the different people with regard to this situation that they spoke to today. Well, what do you think her side of the equation wants at this point?

MARSHA CATRON, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY OF SENATOR FEINSTEIN: It seems like what is going on are Republicans are trying to jam this through in a sham hearing with a fake deadline to get this done as quickly as possible to smear her character.

You know, Judge Kavanaugh has had months and months of preparation. We have to remember that Dr. Ford is a private citizen, she's never testified before and an investigation beforehand seems like the right thing to do. I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But that's happening. That's been happening all week in terms of what we've heard. And she was the one who wanted an opportunity to come testify. She was offered that opportunity in a myriad of different ways, whatever makes her more comfortable.

So, I think that the bullying charge, why do you see -- given all that, why do you think she's being bullied?

CATRON: Because she -- first of all, wanted to remain anonymous. She did everything that she could writing her Congress member writing her Senator, you know, put a -- doing a tip line to remain anonymous. She was not trying to create a circus it seems by doing this.

MACCALLUM: Yes, right.

CATRON: And it wasn't until the media got a hold of it, and outed her that she came forward. She was -- she was trying to do this in a confidential way.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, that's one of the big questions -- yes. The question of who outed her, Tammy, is central here.

BRUCE: Yes, look, we've seen a bunch of things happened and we don't know what happened 36 years ago. But we do know what happens starting in July. And this becomes the issue. Is that you've got clearly a politicized framework. A woman who wanted to tell her story. A woman whose initial comments even when outed was, "I do want to tell my story. I want to come forward now. This has got to be discussed."

What concerns me is the turn of that. Suddenly, all of that changed and what I've been expressing the last few days is that it seems as though what Dr. Ford wanted has been adjusted and changed by people around her who are doing her no favor, and perhaps, who have betrayed what it is she wanted to accomplish.

What this has turned out to be is a partisan attack on Judge Kavanaugh. And for me, as a -- as a woman who's worked to elevate women's lives for most of my adult life and as the former president of now and as somebody worked on the Dianne Feinstein campaign in 1992, is trying to make sure that women do have a fair shot at being heard, that we are to be taken seriously.

But it's events like this that affect all of us, that send a message that only certain kinds of women matter because of course conservative women or Republican women who have also been in the public, complaining about their treatment by Democratic men don't get the same treatment.

And in this case, you've got -- when it comes to the issue of due process, the reason we are able to be taken seriously and we want to be taken seriously is because we can be trusted in telling our stories based on the fact that we're willing to enter a system where there is fairness.

When we're entering into it, presuming that the man who's been under accusation will not have an ability to defend himself, then everyone comes under question. This hurts all of us, certainly, this issue is not a partisan issue, but they are making it one and this is why it becomes suspect all of the steps leading up to this hurt, not just Judge Kavanaugh, but certainly, Dr. Ford, as well.

But the offense to all of us who have gone through this, who have either experienced domestic violence or sexual violence, to politicize this, it has been an obscene thing to watch, and this has got to be rectified right now one way or the other.

MACCALLUM: Marsha, are you confident that, that process wasn't hijacked by the Democratic Party? That her story that she put forth -- and you can understand. You know, I don't think anyone, anyone blames -- no one blaming her. I mean, she has her story, she has her belief about what happened, and I think everyone respects that. The question is what happened after that.

Was she sized up as a story that would be a great thing to a great -- you know, sort of arrow to have in your quiver if the hearing thing didn't pan out the way that Democrats might hope it did. They tried to derail the hearing from the beginning.

You know, so, are you confident that there hasn't been any effort to -- you know, alter her message in any way? Why haven't we all seen the letter and the statement that she sent to Senator Feinstein in the first place? Grassley hasn't even seen it yet. Why is that?

CATRON: The letter that she sent in the first place which was sent as I understand it, months ago, was kept confidential at her request. And look, someone who is lying doesn't request for an FBI investigation, which is what she's asking for.

And I don't see the same thing from Judge Kavanaugh, or the White House or anything else. So, let's have an investigation, let's take it slowly, and then, let's see what shakes out.

BRUCE: Yes, but see that? It -- it's, it's a take it slowly. Judge Kavanaugh has been investigated half a dozen times already because of his current position and other position she's had. He's been under investigation. A great deal of his adult life when it comes to what he does for a living.

That the FBI did this again recently for this position. This is a man who's been under extraordinary scrutiny for a public life that he's led for a clearly a number of years. So, we have a general sense of who he is and that's what we are now going on. He's testified under oath already. A number of people also always have.

For women to be taken seriously, we've got to be able to be -- to play fair, and to not do what detractors say we do. Which is use these allegations to harm people, to go after men we don't like, or to harm our political opponents. This is what we must insist on and what we expect. Marsha and Tammy, thank you very much.

More to come, Hollywood is now chiming in on the Brett Kavanaugh controversy, as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should not be confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should not be confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You and your testimony are credible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Ben Shapiro, here to respond to that. And she has the highest approval numbers in the administration and also among Democrats. U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley, here live as the president returns to the U.N. coming this week. So, what can we expect from the president this time?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Rocketman is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: We were just days away now from President Trump's return to the United Nations. Under the Trump Administration, the muscles shown by Ambassador Nikki Haley at the World Body is a posture that we have not seen in decades leveling Russia Syria and Iran's long untested policies.

NIKKI HALEY, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATION: Russian corruption is like a virus. It is impeding our ability to achieve complete denuclearization in North Korea.

For too long the Human Rights Council has been a protector of human rights abusers and a cesspool of political bias.

If the Syrian regime uses this poisonous gas again, the United States is locked and loaded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And the numbers show that the public approves. In fact, no one in the Trump administration has higher favorability numbers than Nikki Haley in this April poll. In fact, Democrats even liked her as much as they liked Nancy Pelosi according to these numbers. So perhaps it's no big surprise that she has also become a target.

Here now exclusively Ambassador Nikki Haley. Ambassador, thank you so much for coming back to 'The Story.' It's good to see you tonight.

HALEY: It's great to be back.

MACCALLUM: So let's just fence with this question story that came up. The New York Times, a lot of egg on their face, they said that you had authorized the purchase of fifty thousand dollar drapes and then they had to post a big retraction. What do you say to them about that?

HALEY: You know unfortunately if you're in public service this is the life we live every day. It's just a matter of this one got through. You know, we're stopping stories every day that that aren't truthful or aren't -- don't have the facts. And so this one, I hadn't even taken the job when these curtains were picked out. And so the idea that this came out, we told the reporters that these were the facts. They knew the facts and they released the story anyway. And I think it goes to show --

MACCALLUM: So you talk to the New York Times and said this isn't the case and they printed it anyway?

HALEY: They printed it anyway and it was down in the story and like the seventh paragraph down at the bottom.

MACCALLUM: And then they had to post a retraction, so that's twice.

HALEY: Yes, but we shouldn't -- you know all last weekend, every day, wherever I went, people were asking me about my curtains. The damage is done once the stories out. I appreciate the retraction but that story follows you everywhere you go. But that is -- that's the tough part about public life though.

MACCALLUM: Yes, indeed it is. And I also want to ask you about the Brett Kavanaugh situation because everybody's talking about it. What are your thoughts on all of this on this process?

HALEY: It turns my stomach. It really turns my stomach. I mean, Miss Ford needs to be heard but Brett Kavanaugh needs to be heard and the Senate has a responsibility here. They have to lead, they have to make sure it's fair, they have to make sure it's responsible, and they have got to take the politics out of this situation.

MACCALLUM: Would you urge them to go ahead with the vote this week on Wednesday as they plan?

HALEY: I don't think it's good for either of the individuals to have this dragged out. They need to have a timeline, they need to stick to it, and they need to go forward. But as long as they're fair and responsible I think that you know, you should hear from both sides. But the politics is what I think people are so disgusted with.

MACCALLUM: All right, this is a quote from Business Insider. U.S. relations with the world body have deteriorated thanks to hardline positions on Iran, the Human Rights Council in Palestine. The administration's unilateralism is wearing thin as member states tire of America's browbeating and unwillingness to compromise? What do you say to that?

HALEY: I mean, they're tired because we're telling the truth. They're tired because we're being strong again. They're tired because we're not going to have these multilateral organizations mandate the U.S. have to do what they want us to do. We're going to do what's in the best interest of the American people and I think that's what the President did when he got us out of the Paris Climate Deal, that's what he did when he said Iran is a problem and being in this deal is not making anyone in the world safer.

It's what we did when we -- when the President finally moved to the embassy to Jerusalem when that was such an issue. It's what he did when we drew a red line on Syria and stuck to it and actually told Asad, chemical weapons aren't going to be used. So no, I don't expect to all countries to love how we are but that's because we're taking our country back in the message of our country back and we're not apologizing for it.

MACCALLUM: So last year the President said this about the North Korean leader. He called him rocket man. We played it on the way into this who do you thinks going to be the target next week?

HALEY: I think what you're going to hear from the president next week is you're going to hear him talk about the foreign policy success stories that the U.S. has had over the past year. You're going to hear him talking about building those relationships with countries that share our values and you're going to hear him talk about American generosity and how American generosity had no lines before.

Now, the U.S. is starting to look at the aid that is given and say you know what, we're going to help our friends out, we're going to help out the countries that have the same values, but the days of giving money to any country just because and the days of giving money to countries that stop America, hate America or say negative things, it's over and I think the president's going to -- going to explain this.

MACCALLUM: That's going to land like a thud with some countries I would imagine. John Kerry and others in the Obama administration continue to speak out. He had four meetings with Rouhani and Iranian leadership and indicated to them which he admitted that you know they should just wait out, wait out the Trump team and he said it's perfectly normal for former secretaries of state to still be out there having these discussions. He said Kissinger did it too.

HALEY: It was i0rresponsible and it was disrespectful. And you can't put Dr. Kissinger in the same vein as what John Kerry did. Dr. Kissinger even when he goes and speaks with any country leader, he lets us know before and he lets us know after. He is always briefing us. If he ever --

MACCALLUM: …didn't indicate to anyone that he was about to go have conversations and --

HALEY: So Dr. Kissinger is the responsible way to do it. What we saw with John Kerry was not only disrespectful but it was hurtful to America. When we're trying to make inroads with Iran, where we're trying to get them to identify the fact that they're doing ballistic missile testing, that they're supporting terrorism, that they're moving arms to the Houthis in Yemen, we're in the middle of that. For John Kerry to go and say oh wait it out, that hurts America and it hurts the region.

MACCALLUM: So what's the administration going to do to him? I mean, do you think there should be some action taken? I mean, we talk about the Hatch Act, we talk about Logan Act, I mean, don't do you think that there should be some repercussions for him?

HALEY: I think the answer is with the lawyers on that, but I think to John Kerry himself, if someone would have done this to him when he was Secretary of State, I don't think he would have sat back and said oh they have the right to do that.

MACCALLUM: So you don't think there's any action -- any action will be taken?

HALEY: I mean, the lawyers would have to see that. But of course, people do go talk to foreign leaders after they have job. They just usually are respectful about it.

MACCALLUM: I think a lot of people are going to be curious to hear what the President's stance and his posture is like when it comes to Iran. I mean, we've seen the sanctions, we've seen the impact o0n their oil markets, we know that general matters for a long time in the Obama administration talked about a two-pronged theory of a military perhaps action or the threat of military action combined with trying to have an impact on the people in Iran to empower them against their own regime. What do you think we're going to hear?

HALEY: The President is very strong in his beliefs when it comes to Iran. And this has been one of the consistent strong points he has made from the very beginning which is why he wanted to get us out of the Iran deal because every country was giving her on a pass on all of the bad things that we're doing in the name of this deal. When the deal wasn't keeping them to be a clean actor in the international community, the deal was giving them a pass. So he got out of the deal he then said we aren't finished, there's more to discuss, Iran is going around to the Europeans trying to get whatever business they can. They're losing it left and right. It's time for us to have a real discussion.

And that's what you'll see the President do when he chairs the Security Council on Wednesday. It'll be the most watched Security Council meeting ever I'm sure but he will be with all these heads of countries. And he's not just going to talk about Iran, he's going to talk about you know the chemical weapons issue that we had to work on this month alone to keep from happening in Idlib and Syria. He's going to talk about North Korea and what we're dealing with there. The fact that we had to take on the Russian incident and the U.K. with the Skripals.

So you're going to hear him talk about these but with Iran, he does not think we should turn away. He does not think we should let our focus go away. He thinks so dangerous. He thinks they're issues and he thinks that the international community has to take that into account.

MACCALLUM: I got to let you go but one last question. When the president came back from Singapore, he said North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat. Was that a mistake?

HALEY: No, I don't think it was a mistake because I think that what you saw were two leaders that both showed they had the political will to go forward. Now, what does that mean? What it means is we both have to figure out how each defines denuclearization. We made it very clear that we want to see denuclearization with verification that we can look at that. And I think if you look at what's happened it's been successful in that we haven't had any ballistic missile tests. You're seeing Kim now socialize with the region that needed to happen. You're seeing the fact that even if he's talking with Moon, all of these things you know, if you take into those three sanctions packages into account, Kim felt suffocated.

And the president when he felt suffocated, the president opened that door to him to say there's a different life for North Koreans if you want it. And I think what you're seeing is this is going to happen. It is baby steps. It's not going to happen overnight. We knew that but we can't accept task measures that would be doing it like previous administrations. We have to do this completely, fully, and we have to do it by making sure we're continuing the sanctions and continuing to hold North Korea's hand to the tire.

MACCALLUM: We'll be watching along with the rest of the world. Thank you, Ambassador. It's good to see you tonight. Thanks for coming by. So coming up, the Democratic rallying cry for November involves the notion of fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FORMER DIRECTOR, FBI: Americans have awakened to the importance of the rule of law and the danger posed by its erosion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Marc Thiessen and Austan Goolsbee join me next on why that message could potentially backfire next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So this is the midterm messaging that we are hearing from some top Democrats out there and then it kind of plays into the idea that things are so dangerous under the current president, that people should be very worried and that they should fix that the next time around. Listen to this new interview with former FBI director James Comey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: We are in a place where the president of the United States relentlessly attacks the rule of law and the institutions of justice, so that's terrible. Americans have awakened to the importance of the rule of law and the danger posed by its erosion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joining me now, Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute scholar and a Fox News contributor, and Austan Goolsbee, former economic advisor to President Obama. Gentlemen, thank you. Good to have both of you.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to be with you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Marc, what's your reaction to what the former FBI director said?

THIESSEN; Well, number one Trump is right when he said the other day, he just fired him the first day one, because we wouldn't be in this mess right now, there would be no Mueller probe, there wouldn't be any of this if he had just fired him the day of his first day in office, so Trump was right about that.

But two, that narrative that the Democrats are going to be picking up, that is the direct result of a disastrous lack of message discipline on the part of the president of the United States. As someone who wants a president to succeed, in his corner and hoping for his success, it's extremely frustrating.

What should the president want us to be talking right now. The president should be wanting us to talk about the fact that the economy grew at 4.2 percent. That we added 210,000 jobs, that manufacturing jobs are growing at the fastest pace in 14 years, wages are growing at the fastest phase in nine years. Unemployment -- the job losses are the lowest they have been in half a century and going on and on and on.

What are we talking about? We are talking about his latest broadside against Jeff Sessions. What does the president think the media would, rather, the mainstream media would rather cover, is economic success or his latest feud with Jeff Sessions? So the president of the United States continuously steps on his story and as a result, the media doesn't have to tell what I'd called the greatest story never told which is that the Trump administration is succeeding.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, he talks about this saying they can't bear in all the other stuff. And then you got some networks that spend like half a day talking about Stormy.

THIESSEN: Exactly.

MACCALLUM: So, you know, that you've that going for you. Austan, is that notion, and Hillary Clinton said the other day, you know, that Trump will wholesale fire people after the midterms, that he is becoming increasingly unaccountable if Democrats don't retake the Congress, she's very concerned about that.

Is that message do you think people will buy it, do you think it's going to work for Democrats politically, is it a good political message?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER BARACK OBAMA CHIEF ECONOMIST: Well, it depends on how you put it. I'm kind of surprise that you put forward James Comey as the spokesperson for the Democrat strategy. I think Marc and I can both agree that as a barometer of what is politically palatable to America, we will both say James Comey is not on the list--

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well he certainly ticks off people equally on both sides. I think that's a very good point.

THIESSEN: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: But in the things that he is saying he's definitely trying to undermine the president's reputation. But we do -- we also have a lot of time for Hillary Clinton. But go ahead.

GOOLSBEE: Here's what I think.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

GOOLSBEE: If you look at the basic message that Congress should provide a check and balance on the actions of the president, there's a massive majority of Americans who agree with that and that's why in the congressional elections for 2018, that is Trump's Achilles' heel.

If he could just concentrate on the economy as Marc said, he's been a lot stronger. There's a big majority of the country that wants there to be some check and balance and I think that message is not lost on the people running.

MACCALLUM: All right. We will see in just about seven weeks, less than seven weeks away. Thank you, guys. Good to see you tonight.

THIESSEN: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for being here.

GOOLSBEE: Thanks.

MACCALLUM: So some big Hollywood stars don't need to hear anymore really from either one of these people, they've already figured out what the truth is so we should just ask them what happened 36 years ago. Ben Shapiro is standing by with his take on that and more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So back to our top story, Brett Kavanaugh said he will be there to testify first thing Monday morning but as far as his accuser goes, this signals have remained mixed tonight.

In fact, just moments ago, I was looking at something that says that they were still in discussion, they're still trying to get the parameters down for how this would work next week.

Here now is Ben Shapiro, editor-in-chief of DailyWire.com and the host of the Ben Shapiro election special which starts this Sunday at 8 o'clock Eastern right here on the Fox News channel which we are all looking forward to having Ben with us through the midterm.

Ben, good to see you tonight. Thank you very much for being here.

BEN SHAPIRO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, DAILYWIRE.COM: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: You know, I know you talked a lot about in your podcast today and yesterday about what you see is a lot of injustice that feels inherent to this in terms of how this whole thing has been approached. There's a lot of questions that are being raised tonight about who might have sort of jumped into the fray to help this woman and to get involved in the case, and what their motivations might be.

And there is a story by Politico later on -- later this afternoon, which suggested that a woman named Ricki Seidman is advising her. And of course she's allowed to have anybody she wants advisor, it's a free country. But it is interesting to note that Ricki Seidman also helped someone else in the past. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANITA HILL, ACCUSED CLARENCE THOMAS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT: On September 6, Ricki Seidman called me and she told me that she knew someone who worked on the Senate Labor Committee, James Bradney (Ph) who would have information who work in the areas of sex and sex discrimination and that he would be able to give me some indication of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think about that, Ben?

SHAPIRO: Well, I mean, obviously there is a political attempt here, I mean, the effect that the accuser is now going to a woman who is working with Anita Hill in the Clarence Thomas trial doesn't speak highly of the sort of nonpartisan elements in this case and that's what's been so troubling.

Whether you believe the accuser whether you don't believe the accuser the Democrats have made it nearly impossible to just look at this as a question of guilt or innocence. It looks like a political smear. There's just no way around it.

The way that Diane Feinstein handled this, she first saw her letter July 30th, she didn't reveal it to anyone else for six weeks and then finally they come forward two days after Brett Kavanaugh finally finishes his hearing six or seven days afterward. That's when we finally hear the entire story.

When we first heard the story, she didn't give the name of the accuser, she didn't give of what actually happened and the accuser still can't give a date or a time as to when this happened.

It's incredibly difficult for Brett Kavanaugh to even defend himself. And meanwhile you got Democrat saying well, we want to hear her story. And then the minute Republicans say well, why don't you just bring her, you know, like in front of our committee so we can hear her story, then Democrats say, hey, that sexist. It's sexist to want to hear her story.

So if they don't hear her story of sexism and silencing her and if they do hear her story--

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Then they are bullying her.

SHAPIRO: And then in front of the FBI.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SHAPIRO: Although the FBI it's some sort of magic time cop.

MACCALLUM: They have offered her a private -- anything she wants really. You know, however she wants to convey her information they say they'd go to California, they want to make it as open and accessible a process for her as they can and in there, and there's negotiations tonight.

I'm just shocked, you know, sort of given the history that we've seen in these cases. And you know, you've pointed out and I've pointed out, we don't know what happened. Nobody knows what happened in this case. And you know, obviously that's the most important underlying factor of what's going on here.

But I'm shocked when you look back like the Duke case or the UVA case or some of these cases that have unraveled, that people are so willing to jump in with their opinion, not knowing her or not knowing anything about the actual facts. Watch some of these that was released today in support of the accuser.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should not be confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should not be confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should not be confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You and your testimony are credible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You and your testimony are credible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Ben?

SHAPIRO: And Mike Gardner says that she is not credible. Who the hell cares about a bunch of celebrities who weren't in the room and haven't been anywhere near that side of the country for what have to say about what happened here?

I mean, what exactly like do they have to shed on any of this? They got to be more absurd than that. We've seem two interviews in the past 48 hours from people who were in classes with Christine Blasey Ford when she was back in high school saying they believe her story.

And then when specifically asked whether they actually heard about this, they say no. Do they know anything about Brett Kavanaugh? No. But they believe her story because bad things happen to them. Well, that's not standard as to whether you know something that happened in this case.

The idea that justice, truth, guilt and innocence, these things can be decided simply by an appeal to men are bad and women must always be believed, it's absurd. You have to have some standard of evidence before you destroy a man's life. You at least have to give him a chance to defend themselves.

Democrats are now saying things like if he even defends himself he's insulting the woman. Ana-Marie Cox over at Wonkette and MSNBC, she suggested that it doesn't really matter whether Brett Kavanaugh is guilty or innocent. What really matters is whether he feels this woman's pain.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SHAPIRO: Well, if you were Brett Kavanaugh and a woman just accused you in your opinion of sexually assaulting falsely, sexually assaulting her falsely are you really going to be sitting there thinking about her level of pain or are you thinking, I need to defend myself, I have daughters, I have a wife, I have life.

This is all insanity and again, it's demonstrative of the fact that if we really wanted to get to the truth of the situation, if Democrats really gave one crap about this, what Democrats would be doing is putting this woman in front of a hearing and calling whatever witnesses they could and then, they would be attempting to bolster her case. They would be hiding her and then suggesting that any questions to be asked or something undermining the justice system.

MACCALLUM: Ben, thank you. We look forward to seeing you on Sunday night. Good to see you.

SHAPIRO: Thanks so much.

MACCALLUM: So coming up next, we go live to Las Vegas, Nevada, where President Trump is about to speak at a rally there in support of Republican Senator Dean Heller, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A Fox News alert, the fight to maintain control of the U.S. Senate takes President Trump to try to defend his party's candidate in Nevada tonight.

White House correspondent Kevin Corke joins us now live from Las Vegas. Hi, Kevin.

KEVIN CORKE, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Loving Las Vegas. The president will be here shortly to cheer on a very important senator from here in this silver state, Representative Dean Heller, of course, he's in to throws, Martha, of a very tough political battle.

In fact, he is losing in the latest Suffolk poll by just one point to Jacky Rosen. The president hoping to put a bit of the political Midas touch at the make America great rally here tonight for Dean Heller. Of course we'll have all the coverage for you, listing also about that Kavanaugh deal. But for now, back to you.

MACCALLUM: That's great. Thank you so much. Kevin Corke in Las Vegas.

So when we come back, former CIA director and four-star General David Petraeus shares an untold story and it involves someone that our viewers know very well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Tonight's untold story is from General David Petraeus, the four-star general who served in the army for 37 years and later become the director of the CIA and nearly saw his career ended very early on with a near-death experience that was averted by someone that viewers of the show know quite well.

DAVID PETRAEUS, FORMER U.S. CIA DIRECTOR: In 1991, I just escape the Pentagon after two years as the aide and chief of staff of the army. I was a newly installed battalion commander about a month into the job. It was a Saturday morning and we were in a series of what we called -- they were walk to daylight exercises after which you would conduct--

MACCALLUM: This is in Kentucky.

PETRAEUS: This is in Fort Campbell in Kentucky. Yes and so we were on one of the live fire ranges. General Jack Keane who was one star general, the assistant division commander was -- he really liked our unit and like these live fire exercises.

And so he and I were walking behind this squad and one of our soldiers, a fine soldier, special Smith, knocked out a bunker with a grenade and went in and sprayed it. Came out and on the top step he tripped. And we think as he came down, and he hit very hard, he was actually stunned for a moment, that his finger was in the trigger housing and he squeezed as you tends up when you are about to hit the ground and squeeze off around.

And that round, an M-16 round went right through here, thankfully over the A.M. Petraeus rather than the letter A and army. I thought I had been hit from behind. I didn't see the soldier, Jack Keane had seen the soldier so he knew what happened. But the below is actually -- as it blows out of your back more than it is the actual hit in the front.

MACCALLUM: What do you remember about what that felt like?

PETRAEUS: Well, it felt like the most enormous hammer on a huge swing hitting you from the back because it explodes out of your back. The hole in the back was much bigger than the very tiny hole right here.

And I was very fortunate that it only nick an artery it didn't sever an artery, in which case literally bled out. Then you get into shock. I was telling the guys, don't worry about me, guys, we need to just do a quick after action review, prop me against the tree and get me some water to drink because you have all of a sudden have this raging thirst.

And of course they are all rolling their eyes because they've realized I've been shot. And I'm not sure I'd fully processed all of this at that moment in time. I did remember saying, don't cut my gear, you know, it took me a lot of time to tie everything down here and I don't want to have to redo that.

And of course they are thinking about it, how are we making sure this guy doesn't die.

MACCALLUM: To save your life.

PETRAEUS: And I remember General Keane actually, by the way, he stayed with me the entire way through this. This was -- this ended up being many hours process. And holding his hand actually, we flew into the post hospital to the emergency room, and that's where they really in a sense saved my life.

Because what they did there was they took a scalpel and cut an x, he actually said, this is going to really hurt, and it really did. It was the one time in the whole endeavor that, you know, I truly sort of, started to just say, maybe this isn't worth hanging onto, because it hurt so much and I end up there.

MACCALLUM: Were you thinking about your life, about your family, about potentially dying in that moment?

PETRAEUS: Yes. All of the above. But you're also trying to hang onto life. And you know, I have had a reasonable amount of determination over the years and wasn't ready to give it up quite so easily.

And now we're starting to think, gosh, what about the unit? This is a fairly traumatic experience, their new battalion commander, you know, has been shot and almost killed. And so I asked the chaplain in fact to bring the soldier down to Nashville to the Vanderbilt Medical Center so I could sit with him. He was a fine soldier and things happen, and so, you know, at the end of the day it was really no harm.

I was a fairly inpatient patient, so they moved me from there back to the post hospital at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. And I was driving them crazy there. I said, you know, I think I'm ready to check out of here, I think this was the five or six day mark. And I said why don't I show you, I will do 50 push-ups for you if you want and then you can see whether that's enough.

MACCALLUM: See if I'm OK. After having been through that experience, when you were in Iraq when you saw other people injured perhaps in a similar way, did it give you a different understanding or compassion for what they were going through?

PETRAEUS: Well, I certainly knew what it felt like to go through this kind of very serious injury.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

PETRAEUS: Again, a chest wound is something certainly that can kill you, not always. It certainly gave a sense of an understanding of this enormous knowing uncertainty that almost all of our soldiers exhibited.

Because the truth is that, what they wanted to do was just get back to their unit and the truth is, that's exactly what I wanted to do. But it was amazing that, you know, I would go and see a soldier who is in the field hospital who might have lost a leg or something, and he would plead with me, just, sir, don't worry about it, just let me get back to the unit.

You know, something called the brotherhood of the close fight and, those that are really in the true firefight on the ground with each other, they are thinking about each other. And they have each other's backs and this is all about their ranger buddy or air assault body or whatever.

And there is fierce loyalty among them, and a fierce desire to not let one's body down. And that does extend beyond that, but it certainly was always visible when someone was hit and they didn't want to be medevac to the states or to Germany or what have you, they just wanted to be treated there and get back to their unit.

MACCALLUM: You have that kind of brotherhood based on that experience with General Jack Keane?

PETRAEUS: Very much so. We knew each other before but this was a very serious male bonding situation and it was also a great example of what a great leader does, looking after those for whom he is responsible.

Again, that was his Saturday. He wasn't on the golf course or somewhere else, he was out there with us walking this very intensive live fire exercise and he did that many, many more times with us. He reveled in that kind of activity because he and I and the others knew that this is how you prepare individual soldiers for combat.

MACCALLUM: Well, he has enormous respect for you which he has share with us many, many times. So thank you very much for sharing your story with us today.

PETRAEUS: Well, I have the same for him, I can assure you.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, general.

General Petraeus joked that he jumped in front of the bullet to save Jack Keane. That's part of their story as well. Our thanks to him.

So that is our Story on this Thursday night, busy one, right. Stay tuned to Fox News coming up at 9 o'clock. Sean Hannity has an exclusive with President Trump tonight before he holds the campaign rally in Las Vegas at 10 o'clock. You can see that live here on Fox News. We will see you back here tomorrow on Friday live at seven. Tucker Carlson is coming up next. Have a good night.

Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2018 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2018 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.